Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 The feral cats round here definitely live in large groups. Jo not necessarily ...cats often form packs, especially once they go feral..at least the females do.... ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 when you think you can see light at the end of the tunnel........you are wrong.........somebodies just bringing you more work catherine hi all!! >"Danielle Kichler" > > >Re: a favor... >Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:31:15 -0400 > >I'm not trying to wind anyone up, and I deeply resent the accusation. > >Danielle > > > >Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an >oncoming train! > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Peter" > > >Re: a favor... >Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:23:52 +0100 > >Hi Danielle > > > Because it's SAFER to keep my cat indoors. Besides, she has no desire to >go > > outside. Also, a cat's average lifespan is 15-17 years, give or take. A > > bird can live 50 years; that's a long time to spend in a cage. It's >easier > > to give a cat or dog a somewhat natural lifestyle. > >Having just sent a response, I've just realised that you're probably only >doing this to wind me up anyway, so I don't think I shall be playing that >game with you this time. > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03 > >_______________ >MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > Get a free connection, half-price modem and one month FREE, when you sign up for BT Broadband today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Nikki Very sensible comments - thanks. Jo - nikki_mackovitch Thursday, August 28, 2003 12:40 PM Re: a favor... I don't want to get into the crossfire's of an obviously heated debate, but I gotta say me part.Personally, I think a loving home, Vegan er not, is much better than a cage, cell, box in shelter, pet store, er unloving home any day.I think Fraggle and Danielle's home are better than outside fer their cats. And Peter and Jo's homes are better than any pet store could ever provide. Fact is the birds were going to be sold/given to someone. The cats would be roaming the street, put to sleep etc. What is wrong with a caring person taking in another soul and providing for it? Better them than so many others.My dog is not allowed to roam free either. He is domesticated and may not survive out there. So I provide for him and we are his family. He is a full fledged member of this family just like anyone else here. Would I save my son before him, of course. But I would pick Zak over the hubby too. Doesn't mean I love them any less, just a matter of who can take care of themselves better.Any loving home, fer any species is always a good thing. Wish families took care of their own human members as well as some take care of their "pets". And I use the term "pets " very loosely. Fer I have none. Just 2 sons, one's a little furrier than the other tho.Oh, and I see no difference in what kinda animal resides with you be it a bird, cat, dog, fish etc. Once it has been captured, born etc and placed in a store, shelter etc., tis better a good home than the alternatives.just me own little piece of me minddon't worry, i won't give much more, have not a lot to spare;)nikki , Dave <dave@r...> wrote:> You're missing my point. If your room-mate's cat hadn't been kept> there at all, then it wouldn't have been living in an area where there> was barbed wire. It wasn't the fact that it was allowed out, but that> it was kept in such an unsavoury area anyway.> > Don't get me wrong, I am to some point playing devil's advocate here,> but if people didn't keep animals in areas so obviously unsuited to> them, then they wouldn't have to worry about allowing them out. I> maintain that it is people's want to have the animals as> companions/pets, that puts them in danger in the first place.> > Dave> To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 just a few things: i dont think its right to lock up any animals even cats!!!! iv got a rat (called nuts) and unfortunatly i cant let her roam free in a room although there are people out there who do and its great but i get her out as much as i can and shes havin a better quality of life than if i had left her, i got her from the RSPCA and she had never been handled so she was scared and bit alot the RSPCA people didnt even handle her and as she wasnt really good pet material i doubt anyone would have taken her in, but since i got her in january she has slowly come round through patience and spending a lot of time with her and know she gets to come out whenever i can she runs all over - and i imagine is much happier than she was. so the theory about keeping some animals in a cage doesnt always work ok shes not wild but to set her free would mean death to her so which is better - now it is wrong to breed more animals as there are so many out there that need help and a good loving home. also my cat (magick) was a stray just left his mum he was terrified of everything and everyone we took him in by gaining his confidence - he was so thin and he basically went round the houses begging or ate insects. if your cat doesnt want to go out fair enough and yes outside is dangerous. but what kind of life is it for a outdoor loving cat if your not willing to let them risk it. its not fair to the cat and yes i had a cat once that was killed by a dog when she was out and it crushed me i was only 9 at the time but that is life bad things happen you cant and shouldnt stop your animals from living a semi-natural life because of it. so magick gets to go out whenever he likes and he loves it for all the home comforts they love there is still a bit of a wild animal in them dont suffercate ur animals and dont right of keepin caged animals because their are so many out there that have been mistrteated and need to be shown love - simple as.Danielle Kichler <veggietart wrote: Cats are solitary animals! They can take or leave companionship; it's not necessasry to their well-being. And it's not a double standard--check out PETA's Web site sometime on the subject of keeping birds as pets. I've never heard of anyone trying to capture birds for vivisection, nobody dissects birds in biology or anatomy classes, and birds are a little harder for neighborhood brats to pick on.Besides, my cat would be utterly livid if I got another cat. This is her home, and nobody better forget it.DanielleSure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an oncoming train!----Original Message Follows----"Peter" <metalscarab To: Re: a favor...Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:55:13 +0100Hi Danielle> Because it's SAFER to keep my cat indoors.Same goes for birds.> Besides, she has no desire to go> outside.Same goes for all the budgies I've known.> Also, a cat's average lifespan is 15-17 years, give or take. A> bird can live 50 years; that's a long time to spend in a cage.Budgies live between 7 and 10. Looks like the cat's got the raw deal on that one.> It's easier to give a cat or dog a somewhat natural lifestyle.What's natural about keeping a cat indoors all the time with no other feline companionship?As I said before, it's just double standards. It's alright for cats because you have a cat, but it's not alright for birds because you don't have any!BBPeter---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03_______________MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialupTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 thats true when my mum was alive there was a pack of ferral cats living just behid hers - we used to watch out of the window to try and spot them they were loverly and there had to be about 5 plus babies!!!EBbrewpunx wrote: In a message dated 8/27/03 5:33:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, veggietart writes: Cats are solitary animals! They can take or leave companionship; it's not necessasry to their well-beingnot necessarily ...cats often form packs, especially once they go feral..at least the females do.... To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 *sigh* if i had a 3 yr old would it be kewl to let him wander out in the street? he wants to go out and play..i mean..wots wrong with that....??? > if we take the responsibility of having a " pet " , then, that also goes toward keeping them safe, and keeping other animals safe out there as well.. cheers fraggle >if your cat doesnt want to go out fair enough and yes outside is dangerous. but what kind of life is it for a outdoor loving cat if your not willing to let them risk it. its not fair to the cat and yes i had a cat once that was killed by a dog when she was out and it crushed me i was only 9 at the time but that is life bad things happen you cant and shouldnt stop your animals from living a semi-natural life because of it. so magick gets to go out whenever he likes and he loves it for all the home comforts they love there is still a bit of a wild animal in them dont suffercate ur animals > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 It just shows what persistence can do. Rats are rather nice, and I'm sure Nuts has a much better life than it would have. Jo i dont think its right to lock up any animals even cats!!!! iv got a rat (called nuts) and unfortunatly i cant let her roam free in a room although there are people out there who do and its great but i get her out as much as i can and shes havin a better quality of life than if i had left her, i got her from the RSPCA and she had never been handled so she was scared and bit alot the RSPCA people didnt even handle her and as she wasnt really good pet material i doubt anyone would have taken her in, but since i got her in january she has slowly come round through patience and spending a lot of time with her and know she gets to come out whenever i can she runs all over - and i imagine is much happier than she was. so the theory about keeping some animals in a cage doesnt always work ok shes not wild but to set her free would mean death to her so which is better - now it is wrong to breed more animals as there are so many out there that need help and a good loving home. also my cat (magick) was a stray just left his mum he was terrified of everything and everyone we took him in by gaining his confidence - he was so thin and he basically went round the houses begging or ate insects. if your cat doesnt want to go out fair enough and yes outside is dangerous. but what kind of life is it for a outdoor loving cat if your not willing to let them risk it. its not fair to the cat and yes i had a cat once that was killed by a dog when she was out and it crushed me i was only 9 at the time but that is life bad things happen you cant and shouldnt stop your animals from living a semi-natural life because of it. so magick gets to go out whenever he likes and he loves it for all the home comforts they love there is still a bit of a wild animal in them dont suffercate ur animals and dont right of keepin caged animals because their are so many out there that have been mistrteated and need to be shown love - simple as. ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2003 Report Share Posted August 29, 2003 no im just sayin you shouldnt hold back natural instict a grown cat is responsible for themselves and yes you should look after them but you cant stifle them. a three year old just as a kitten or and young creature cant do that so you have to protect them because they dont really understant that a road is dangerous where as a grown animal understands unless of course theyve never been allowed to see one. its like peter said we could go out and get hit by a bus the world is pretty random uv got to remember a grown cat isnt a child they should be able to at leat have a little control over there own lives. i mean you can even die in your own house - so could your animals bad things happen you cant protect yourself and your animals and to some degrees your children thats life. most cats that are allowed out wisen up to the dangers call it natural instinct but they werent ment to be kept indoors all the time just as we arent and people who are inside all the time can get pretty nutty or depressed - its just not natural. eventually your children wisen up to dangers in the world and the three year old who would have wondered into the street without a thought will learn to stop look and listen or to use crossings. people and animals grow up , you cant keep your kids locked up forever y keep you cats???they are clever creatures and should be given that respect.EBbrewpunx wrote: *sigh*if i had a 3 yr old would it be kewl to let him wander out in the street?he wants to go out and play..i mean..wots wrong with that....???>if we take the responsibility of having a "pet", then, that also goes toward keeping them safe, and keeping other animals safe out there as well..:)cheersfraggle>if your cat doesnt want to go out fair enough and yes outside is dangerous. but what kind of life is it for a outdoor loving cat if your not willing to let them risk it. its not fair to the cat and yes i had a cat once that was killed by a dog when she was out and it crushed me i was only 9 at the time but that is life bad things happen you cant and shouldnt stop your animals from living a semi-natural life because of it. so magick gets to go out whenever he likes and he loves it for all the home comforts they love there is still a bit of a wild animal in them dont suffercate ur animals> >To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 WELL SAID NIKKI, A lot of love and care for animals is better than no love. And besides we still are allowed our own opinions, and I like to think, can put them forward without trying to preach or judge. Love from my two lazy Moggies... The Valley Vegan.... > Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Fraggle, Were you a resue animal? how do you get to have pets on the rock? The Valley Vegan.... Don't be afraid to take a big step if one is indicated. You can't cross a chasm in two small jumps. - David Lloyd George > Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 In a message dated 8/30/03 7:00:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, swpgh01 writes: Fraggle, Were you a resue animal? how do you get to have pets on the rock? we are allowed many things here.... when the gorgs don't chase us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Peter All opinions welcome :-) Aren't all moggies lazy? (That's probably a silly question - but they all seem to be laid-back). Jo WELL SAID NIKKI,A lot of love and care for animals is better than no love. And besides we still are allowed our own opinions, and I like to think, can put them forward without trying to preach or judge.Love from my two lazy Moggies...The Valley Vegan....> Peter H--------------------talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2003 Report Share Posted August 31, 2003 unfortunatly not!!! magick likes to go out at the crack of dawn come in for brekkie go out again come in for cream (he aint vegan as my dad dont think its right and hes gettin on a little so he probably wouldnt like a change) go sleep or be fussed more food then go out for the night or just the evening. but then theres loads of cats round here and they all seem to be outside cats. my nana's cat (next door to me) sheba is 15 and wants to go out more than ever and is goinin through a second kitten hood jumpin on shelvs and runnin round etc, maybe its coz we're surounded by horrible smelly factories its slowly mutating the species in the area makin them all lively!!!! lol who knows!!!Heartwork <Heartwork wrote: Peter All opinions welcome :-) Aren't all moggies lazy? (That's probably a silly question - but they all seem to be laid-back). Jo WELL SAID NIKKI,A lot of love and care for animals is better than no love. And besides we still are allowed our own opinions, and I like to think, can put them forward without trying to preach or judge.Love from my two lazy Moggies...The Valley Vegan....> Peter H--------------------talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2003 Report Share Posted August 31, 2003 What was the dog's name? Jo Fraggle,Were you a resue animal? how do you get to have pets on the rock? we are allowed many things here....when the gorgs don't chase us... ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2003 Report Share Posted August 31, 2003 Ah! not at all laid-back then. It sounds as though they keep you busy. Jo unfortunatly not!!! magick likes to go out at the crack of dawn come in for brekkie go out again come in for cream (he aint vegan as my dad dont think its right and hes gettin on a little so he probably wouldnt like a change) go sleep or be fussed more food then go out for the night or just the evening. but then theres loads of cats round here and they all seem to be outside cats. my nana's cat (next door to me) sheba is 15 and wants to go out more than ever and is goinin through a second kitten hood jumpin on shelvs and runnin round etc, maybe its coz we're surounded by horrible smelly factories its slowly mutating the species in the area makin them all lively!!!! lol who knows!!! ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2003 Report Share Posted August 31, 2003 > What was the dog's name? Sprocket! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2003 Report Share Posted August 31, 2003 Ah yes! I remember now. Jo - Peter Sunday, August 31, 2003 10:22 PM Re: a favor... > What was the dog's name? Sprocket! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release 14/08/03To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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