Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Excuse me if my thoughts make no sense today, I have had three hours sleep. You say people fear death, of course! People will fear a new job, even if they are leaving a bad job and going to a good job, people fear change and like the familiar. Death would be no exception to the rule. I do believe prayer works, not always, not always how we want it to. It is like the rolling Stones song "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need". There is also a noble truth in Buddhism. Life is suffering. It is one of the four noble truths. So there you have it, life is suffering, and this is not heaven, perhaps it is hell! I don't know why God lets these things happen, it is the age old question in religion. Perhaps it is free will, we choose to be here and set our destinys, I do not know. I agree that churches try to scare people into doing the right thing. I wonder, if a person is doing the right thing because he is afraid to do the wrong thing, does that hold much weight? I would think a person should do the right thing because he feels it is right and is compelled to do so. But again, I am on three hours sleep, not sure how much sense I am making. Siobhan Hi Siobhan, What I don't understand is people who "pray" to God, or think he/she/it will help them, when clearly it doesn't work. I mean, I'm tipping that a lot of the people who perished in the World Trade Centre prayed to God before they were killed, and it didn't do them much good. So either God is a capricious, spiteful being who ignores the suffering of countless innocents, like starving children and lab animals, or God is essentially useless, and therefore praying is pointless (expect, perhaps, if if gives someone hope, albeit ill-founded). Also, if Christians/Muslims/Hindus etc. really believed they were going to heaven; really believed that being with God was infinitely preferrable to life on Earth, they would embrace death, not be terrified of it like many people (naturally) are. In my experience, growing up Catholic, heaven and hell was like good cop/bad cop, designed to scare you into doing the "right" thing, which was really mind-control. Tom The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Yeah, but how many people have this " it can't happen to me' 'tude? I tell people that there are all sorts of fabulous things to eat without harming an animal. Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- " Vegecentric " <vegecentric Re: Tom Fri, 23 May 2003 23:33:15 -0700 If we want to motivate people, say to become vegans or move in that direction, forget guilt, or ethical concerns. Go for self interest every time. Don't try to " convert " people, (as with religious zealots, it doesn't work) just give them a great reason why they should make a change. The only place fear has in motivation, is fear of consequences of not changing, such as more heart disease, food poisoning, cancer etc. We must look how we can promote animal-free products to the average, uncommitted consumer, and never, ever assume they will think like us. Tom - Surya Burdick Monday, May 19, 2003 2:21 PM Tom Excuse me if my thoughts make no sense today, I have had three hours sleep. You say people fear death, of course! People will fear a new job, even if they are leaving a bad job and going to a good job, people fear change and like the familiar. Death would be no exception to the rule. I do believe prayer works, not always, not always how we want it to. It is like the rolling Stones song " You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need " . There is also a noble truth in Buddhism. Life is suffering. It is one of the four noble truths. So there you have it, life is suffering, and this is not heaven, perhaps it is hell! I don't know why God lets these things happen, it is the age old question in religion. Perhaps it is free will, we choose to be here and set our destinys, I do not know. I agree that churches try to scare people into doing the right thing. I wonder, if a person is doing the right thing because he is afraid to do the wrong thing, does that hold much weight? I would think a person should do the right thing because he feels it is right and is compelled to do so. But again, I am on three hours sleep, not sure how much sense I am making. Siobhan Hi Siobhan, What I don't understand is people who " pray " to God, or think he/she/it will help them, when clearly it doesn't work. I mean, I'm tipping that a lot of the people who perished in the World Trade Centre prayed to God before they were killed, and it didn't do them much good. So either God is a capricious, spiteful being who ignores the suffering of countless innocents, like starving children and lab animals, or God is essentially useless, and therefore praying is pointless (expect, perhaps, if if gives someone hope, albeit ill-founded). Also, if Christians/Muslims/Hindus etc. really believed they were going to heaven; really believed that being with God was infinitely preferrable to life on Earth, they would embrace death, not be terrified of it like many people (naturally) are. In my experience, growing up Catholic, heaven and hell was like good cop/bad cop, designed to scare you into doing the " right " thing, which was really mind-control. Tom The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 If we want to motivate people, say to become vegans or move in that direction, forget guilt, or ethical concerns. Go for self interest every time. Don't try to "convert" people, (as with religious zealots, it doesn't work) just give them a great reason why they should make a change. The only place fear has in motivation, is fear of consequences of not changing, such as more heart disease, food poisoning, cancer etc. We must look how we can promote animal-free products to the average, uncommitted consumer, and never, ever assume they will think like us. Tom - Surya Burdick Monday, May 19, 2003 2:21 PM Tom Excuse me if my thoughts make no sense today, I have had three hours sleep. You say people fear death, of course! People will fear a new job, even if they are leaving a bad job and going to a good job, people fear change and like the familiar. Death would be no exception to the rule. I do believe prayer works, not always, not always how we want it to. It is like the rolling Stones song "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need". There is also a noble truth in Buddhism. Life is suffering. It is one of the four noble truths. So there you have it, life is suffering, and this is not heaven, perhaps it is hell! I don't know why God lets these things happen, it is the age old question in religion. Perhaps it is free will, we choose to be here and set our destinys, I do not know. I agree that churches try to scare people into doing the right thing. I wonder, if a person is doing the right thing because he is afraid to do the wrong thing, does that hold much weight? I would think a person should do the right thing because he feels it is right and is compelled to do so. But again, I am on three hours sleep, not sure how much sense I am making. Siobhan Hi Siobhan, What I don't understand is people who "pray" to God, or think he/she/it will help them, when clearly it doesn't work. I mean, I'm tipping that a lot of the people who perished in the World Trade Centre prayed to God before they were killed, and it didn't do them much good. So either God is a capricious, spiteful being who ignores the suffering of countless innocents, like starving children and lab animals, or God is essentially useless, and therefore praying is pointless (expect, perhaps, if if gives someone hope, albeit ill-founded). Also, if Christians/Muslims/Hindus etc. really believed they were going to heaven; really believed that being with God was infinitely preferrable to life on Earth, they would embrace death, not be terrified of it like many people (naturally) are. In my experience, growing up Catholic, heaven and hell was like good cop/bad cop, designed to scare you into doing the "right" thing, which was really mind-control. Tom The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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