Reality Check (formerly: bored with raw) - on deficiencies

[Guest guest]

> Then what do you suppose is the problem with those that are

hygienist

> and/or 80-10-10 and do " look (and probably feel like crap) " ? That do

> have vitamin defeciencies?

> do you think they are making it up? Still going thru detox?

>

> Belinda

 

I don't think people are making it up, nor are they making up thinning

hair, haggardness, gauntness, paleness etc. and more than healthy

people make up a robust glow, etc. I want to clarify something to

offer a full perspective of what I meant. To be fair and because I am

not prejudiced against 8/1/1, just am concerned about some of the

aspects and " 1 way for all " attitude, I want to clarify that many

cooked vegans and many full-spectrum (non-8/1/1) raw vegan foodists

can be observed as obviously unhealthy and complete with deficiencies

from eating an unbalanced diet. That is why it is, I feel, SO

IMPORTANT for us all to really look at the entire spectrum of health

and healing. You, me, Elchanan, Graham, Wolfe.... nobody knows FOR

SURE what each other's bodies have been through, what they need based

on a zillion delicate factors, etc. We know the universal laws: vegan

and ideally raw, as nature intended. Within that, there is a broad

spectrum. BECAUSE there isn't a huge and constant population of long

term raw foodists, this is basically new turf for everyone, authors

and speakers alike. It is important to take everybody's input and to

value that, because ALL have had success using their raw-vegan paths

to health, and ALL have had set-backs. Graham didn't get it all right

the first time, he learned as he went. Instead of just listening to

one person, it's really I think important to look at a variety for a

more comprehensive understanding, even if one certain extreme way of

raw foods works for you, to make us better advocates, etc. (note: even

in this group I notice people only want to listen to on person, and

one even admitted they don't want to do the research but to just

listen to someone else and do what they say). By listening to a broad

spectrum, I know what herbs to take in conjunction with what diet to

do if someone has cancer versus IBS, etc. I also know more about

balance from McDougall, Ornish and Bernard, etc. They may be cooked,

but their expertise should not be knocked, really, even if we don't

follow them verbatim, we can always learn from them. Especially since

my Uncle Mike may not go all raw natural hygiene, but he may find

going vegan with some fun creative raw meals pretty doable, plus it

would still reverse just about any health challenge, you know? The big

picture is health, and whatever works for you within raw vegan is

great, but there will be more than one chosen path at that level, and

they are all respectable.

THAT said, when people become deficient, they do 1 of 3 things:

1) They start adding animals again, which sucks big time. That is why

it is so important to keep educating ourselves on this. The fact that

SAD dieters are the most deficient of all usually is somehow ignored.

2) They deny it and think they are healthy based on what they are told

in the book about the diet they have chosen they " are " if they eat

that way. There is no self-awareness, etc. This is no better in my

opinion than those who eat the SAD diet and never get a cold all

winter and are therefore " healthy " in their own right. I have had

400lb men with veins popping out all over their face brag to me about

httheir immune system. Natural hygienists are not all this way. But

they stand a greater chance of getting this way on no supplements

(consult organic farmers for more on how nutrients in the soil simply

are not reliably present anymore) and they eat the simplest and

generally go to the doctor the least, etc. Many won't do juices,

especially wheatgrass, etc. Due to how limited it is, not necessarily

the majority of the wisdom in the principles of natural hygiene,

problems can arise, long term. Like most raw foodism, it's still kind

of too new, even Doug Graham's alleged 27 years raw vegan natural

hygiene is only 27 years. It's commendable if truly true (note: I

don't care one way or the other if it is. If it is, great, if it

isn't, great - percentages and longevity mean less to me than if this

person can teach me something, etc. I only put alleged because

apparently it's been noted it's not and he used to not say that, etc.,

but it's largely irrelevant and doesn't take away from his

intelligence, for me personally. There's a lot of unduly pressure on

raw speakers/leaders, I feel, to be these superhuman perfect people,

and I have ceased contributing to that and putting that on them and

instead value that they eat really healthily, whatever that has meant

to them, and look at their message primarily.)

 

So, my post is not to scare anyone from natural hygiene. I think it is

more of a cleansing diet than most raw diets and I say that because

fruit is primarily cleansing and the diet is 80% fruit and very low

fat. That is a cleansing program imo. But there is something to be

said for building, too. ;-) But many have their reservations and not

everyone thrives on it. I don't think that makes me rage-ridden to

keep pointing out, overall, either, to be fair once again.

 

I hope this post gave you a better idea of where I'm coming from on

this, Belinda. Remember, you don't have to commit to any one program

for life. MANY feel they have to. 8/1/1 may work best for you NOW.

Then, you may need/desire/wish to increase your fats and play around

with some raw gourmet. There is nothing wrong with it. Likewise, maybe

8/1/1 is too hard for some at first. So, go raw and just eat anything

the first few months, as long as it's raw. Your body will reap the

minerals it wants and is deficient in, and slowly you'll eat less and

feel more relaxed and trying 8/1/1 may be a whole lot easier when

you're from an all raw vegan diet that is simply less disciplined than

it is going from a SAD diet. (Note: I was so into hygiene that my

first experience with raw after sampling juices while having a cold

was going from the SAD to a 34 day water fast. How's THAT for some

raging natural hygiene? LOL. Loved it, but would NEVER recommend it to

anyone and prefer juice-fasting for a host of reasons now. Trust me,

though, I have studied my Shelton, Fry, Diamond, Ehret and more. And I

respect them a lot. Why can't there be any respect for other

approaches to raw is what I don't understand?)

 

Erica

[Guest guest]

Oh Erica, very good post. And I agree. That is I agree with all

that I know to agree with. (I have not read and studied as

intensivley as you have) I also know the benifits of healing herbs

too. I have used them on myself a lot with great success. And I

mean herbs gathered from the wild or herbs that I grew myself.

Making teas, decoctions, poultices, etc. Not the commercial pills.

 

 

Belinda

 

 

 

 

> > Then what do you suppose is the problem with those that are

> hygienist

> > and/or 80-10-10 and do " look (and probably feel like crap) " ? That

do

> > have vitamin defeciencies?

> > do you think they are making it up? Still going thru detox?

> >

> > Belinda

>

> I don't think people are making it up, nor are they making up

thinning

> hair, haggardness, gauntness, paleness etc. and more than healthy

> people make up a robust glow, etc. I want to clarify something to

> offer a full perspective of what I meant. To be fair and because I

am

> not prejudiced against 8/1/1, just am concerned about some of the

> aspects and " 1 way for all " attitude, I want to clarify that many

> cooked vegans and many full-spectrum (non-8/1/1) raw vegan foodists

> can be observed as obviously unhealthy and complete with

deficiencies

> from eating an unbalanced diet. That is why it is, I feel, SO

> IMPORTANT for us all to really look at the entire spectrum of

health

> and healing. You, me, Elchanan, Graham, Wolfe.... nobody knows FOR

> SURE what each other's bodies have been through, what they need

based

> on a zillion delicate factors, etc. We know the universal laws:

vegan

> and ideally raw, as nature intended. Within that, there is a broad

> spectrum. BECAUSE there isn't a huge and constant population of

long

> term raw foodists, this is basically new turf for everyone, authors

> and speakers alike. It is important to take everybody's input and

to

> value that, because ALL have had success using their raw-vegan

paths

> to health, and ALL have had set-backs. Graham didn't get it all

right

> the first time, he learned as he went. Instead of just listening to

> one person, it's really I think important to look at a variety for

a

> more comprehensive understanding, even if one certain extreme way

of

> raw foods works for you, to make us better advocates, etc. (note:

even

> in this group I notice people only want to listen to on person, and

> one even admitted they don't want to do the research but to just

> listen to someone else and do what they say). By listening to a

broad

> spectrum, I know what herbs to take in conjunction with what diet

to

> do if someone has cancer versus IBS, etc. I also know more about

> balance from McDougall, Ornish and Bernard, etc. They may be

cooked,

> but their expertise should not be knocked, really, even if we don't

> follow them verbatim, we can always learn from them. Especially

since

> my Uncle Mike may not go all raw natural hygiene, but he may find

> going vegan with some fun creative raw meals pretty doable, plus it

> would still reverse just about any health challenge, you know? The

big

> picture is health, and whatever works for you within raw vegan is

> great, but there will be more than one chosen path at that level,

and

> they are all respectable.

> THAT said, when people become deficient, they do 1 of 3 things:

> 1) They start adding animals again, which sucks big time. That is

why

> it is so important to keep educating ourselves on this. The fact

that

> SAD dieters are the most deficient of all usually is somehow

ignored.

> 2) They deny it and think they are healthy based on what they are

told

> in the book about the diet they have chosen they " are " if they eat

> that way. There is no self-awareness, etc. This is no better in my

> opinion than those who eat the SAD diet and never get a cold all

> winter and are therefore " healthy " in their own right. I have had

> 400lb men with veins popping out all over their face brag to me

about

> httheir immune system. Natural hygienists are not all this way. But

> they stand a greater chance of getting this way on no supplements

> (consult organic farmers for more on how nutrients in the soil

simply

> are not reliably present anymore) and they eat the simplest and

> generally go to the doctor the least, etc. Many won't do juices,

> especially wheatgrass, etc. Due to how limited it is, not

necessarily

> the majority of the wisdom in the principles of natural hygiene,

> problems can arise, long term. Like most raw foodism, it's still

kind

> of too new, even Doug Graham's alleged 27 years raw vegan natural

> hygiene is only 27 years. It's commendable if truly true (note: I

> don't care one way or the other if it is. If it is, great, if it

> isn't, great - percentages and longevity mean less to me than if

this

> person can teach me something, etc. I only put alleged because

> apparently it's been noted it's not and he used to not say that,

etc.,

> but it's largely irrelevant and doesn't take away from his

> intelligence, for me personally. There's a lot of unduly pressure

on

> raw speakers/leaders, I feel, to be these superhuman perfect

people,

> and I have ceased contributing to that and putting that on them and

> instead value that they eat really healthily, whatever that has

meant

> to them, and look at their message primarily.)

>

> So, my post is not to scare anyone from natural hygiene. I think it

is

> more of a cleansing diet than most raw diets and I say that because

> fruit is primarily cleansing and the diet is 80% fruit and very low

> fat. That is a cleansing program imo. But there is something to be

> said for building, too. ;-) But many have their reservations and

not

> everyone thrives on it. I don't think that makes me rage-ridden to

> keep pointing out, overall, either, to be fair once again.

>

> I hope this post gave you a better idea of where I'm coming from on

> this, Belinda. Remember, you don't have to commit to any one

program

> for life. MANY feel they have to. 8/1/1 may work best for you NOW.

> Then, you may need/desire/wish to increase your fats and play

around

> with some raw gourmet. There is nothing wrong with it. Likewise,

maybe

> 8/1/1 is too hard for some at first. So, go raw and just eat

anything

> the first few months, as long as it's raw. Your body will reap the

> minerals it wants and is deficient in, and slowly you'll eat less

and

> feel more relaxed and trying 8/1/1 may be a whole lot easier when

> you're from an all raw vegan diet that is simply less disciplined

than

> it is going from a SAD diet. (Note: I was so into hygiene that my

> first experience with raw after sampling juices while having a cold

> was going from the SAD to a 34 day water fast. How's THAT for some

> raging natural hygiene? LOL. Loved it, but would NEVER recommend it

to

> anyone and prefer juice-fasting for a host of reasons now. Trust

me,

> though, I have studied my Shelton, Fry, Diamond, Ehret and more.

And I

> respect them a lot. Why can't there be any respect for other

> approaches to raw is what I don't understand?)

>

> Erica

>