Tender Greens; Excessive Thirst?; Electrolytes & Sports Drink [Dr. Doug Graham]; Dietary Fat Requirement for Infants (WAS: A few questions (Caron))

[Guest guest]

Hi again Caron,

 

Well, it's backlog cleanup time, as you know by now ... but in this case, I

remember saving this post to answer later " when I had more time " . Hah!!!

Fooled myself pretty well with that one! Anyway ...

 

1. By " tender greens " , I mean primarily lettuces. In addition, I sometimes

eat tender green sprouts, such as sunflower sprouts. I would eat more if

someone else would volunteer to grow them ... but still probably not all

that much of them. Why? Because of my own experiments with satiation.

 

Try this: Get a large pile of organic (if available) sunflower sprouts (or

grow your own!!). First meal of the day, just eat them, chewing, enjoying.

Then notice how the response in your mouth changes ... the sprouts become

almost completely unpalatable at some point. You have reached (or exceeded

satiation WRT these sprouts. Then notice the actual quantity you consumed

.... probably not all that much, a few handfuls or so.

 

2. Regarding water, yes, follow your thirst. Your body will not request more

water than it needs, a.k.a., more than is " good for you " . As long as you

remain overfat (overweight), your system will remain dehydrated 24x7 to some

degree, and you will continue to experience " elevated thirst " . Consuming a

diet consisting of high water-content foods (fruits and tender greens) will

help a great deal, both in the short-term and by restoring health throughout

your being as quickly as possible. But you will likely continue to

experience thirst for some time to come.

 

3. Regarding electrolytes and sports drinks, I share the following, courtesy

of Dr. Doug Graham: Make your own sports drink by combining 1-2 bananas and

some celery in a quart (or more) of water). Blend thoroughly, drink as you

go. Works throughout the day, whether you are engaging in sports or not!

 

4. Regarding dietary fat requirements for infants, human mother's milk

provides the majority of calories from fats. So yes, human infants do have a

relatively high fat requirement ... and that requirement is fully satisfied

by the milk of a healthy human mother.

 

IGNORE ALL GROWTH CHARTS. These are based upon the growth rates of cowmans,

not humans. Just throw them in the garbage and never look at one again.

 

5. I LOVE what you write here:

___

Thinking over these questions, I have come up with a few answers that

completely conflict with popular medical advice (which, incidentally, often

conflicts with the biochemistry and microbiology study I did at university,

while doing my medical science degree), but all of this is too new for me.

I've got 26 years of diet and nutritional " facts " to work through, and

figure out how raw foods fit into all that.

___

The " practice of medicine " is a commercial activity, having little to do

with any sort of science. So OF COURSE what you learned in real science

courses conflicts with the teachings of the medical community!!! The more

quickly you can forget all that you ever learned from doctors, parents, etc.

about health and nutrition, the better off you will be!!!

 

Well, hope these comments prove constructive to you and to others.

 

Best,

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

carniebear2000

Monday, June 11, 2007 5:35 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] A few questions

 

 

Hi all,

 

I followed Elchanan's suggestion re searching for posts about myths, and

came up with a few more questions:

 

1. mostly to Elchanan, wondering what you mean when you refer to " tender

greens " . I read your post about sprouts, and gathered that they're not such

a good thing to eat? What, then, would you class as tender greens?

 

2. Water toxicity - my mother (who works with the local helicopter rescue

service) told me a few months ago about a man who'd died after drinking

around 8 litres (around 2 gallons) of water the day he arrived here from

Canada, in the middle of summer. I regularly drink at least a gallon or two

of water a day (I have a half-litre cup sitting on my desk, and a water

cooler behind me), and though I spend half my life in the loo, I don't get

sick from it. I have worried about overworking my kidneys, but I feel

thirsty if I don't drink all the time, so I follow my thirst.

 

3. the water toxicity question stemmed from the salt toxicity topic that

came up when I searched for myths - there are theories going around that

water with some salt in it is easier to take in and us, thus the extensive

use of gatorade and similar by people playing sports or working out.

Replacing electolytes lost by sweating, and so on. There are also

electrolyte solutions available for cases of gastric infections, which I got

when my boy had an upset stomach once (he wouldn't touch the stuff, but the

nurse insisted it was essential).

 

4. infant/child nutrition and 80-10-10 - we're told that children need a

higher fat diet than adults: ie they need full-fat milk, whereas adults need

skim or reduced fat milk (if drinking milk); they need meat, oily fish (or

fish oil capsules to pick up any difficiency); they need nuts and avocados

and so on, so they can keep up with the growth charts, and not be to skinny

or short. (this is a question I've had for a while)

 

Thinking over these questions, I have come up with a few answers that

completely conflict with popular medical advice (which, incidentally, often

conflicts with the biochemistry and microbiology study I did at university,

while doing my medical science degree), but all of this is too new for me.

I've got 26 years of diet and nutritional " facts " to work through, and

figure out how raw foods fit into all that.

 

I like to have sound scientific reasoning behind my understanding of things,

not only because that's just how I think, but also because I can't risk my

son's health, or have people thinking I'm risking his health for some " fad "

diet. -I- know he's healthier eating raw (or just breastmilk), but

convincing others of it has been insanely difficult: the solution for his

rapid weightloss after he started on (cooked) solids was to feed him more

solids, and cut out the breastmilk, even though that went against every

instinct I have, as well as what we were taught when the baby's first born.

I ended up taking him off solids altogether, and was able to breastfeed up 3

months of weight loss in a month; when he went back on cooked foods, which

were now organic, his weight gain stopped completely for 6 months.

 

Caron

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

Elchanan

>Well, it's backlog cleanup time, as you know by now ... but in this case, I

remember saving this post to answer later " when I had more time " . Hah!!!

Fooled myself pretty well with that one! Anyway ...

 

hehe, I'm waiting on my backorder of " more time " too. I ordered it a few

years before those extra arms I was supposed to receive when I became a

mother. Must remember to send a note to customer service..

 

>1. By " tender greens " , I mean primarily lettuces. In addition, I sometimes

eat tender green sprouts, such as sunflower sprouts. I would eat more if

someone else would volunteer to grow them ... but still probably not all

that much of them. Why? Because of my own experiments with satiation.

 

Ok, lettuces I can do ) Anything else I find difficult to eat, though

sprouts I can do in small doses (no more than a handful)

 

>Try this: Get a large pile of organic (if available) sunflower sprouts (or

grow your own!!). First meal of the day, just eat them, chewing, enjoying.

Then notice how the response in your mouth changes ... the sprouts become

almost completely unpalatable at some point. You have reached (or exceeded

satiation WRT these sprouts. Then notice the actual quantity you consumed

.... probably not all that much, a few handfuls or so.

 

Why do I get an " uh oh.. " feeling whenever you say " try this " ?? I have

noticed the change in taste, when eating almonds one day (by themselves, bit

by bit, as you describe). I haven't tried consciously with sprouts, but have

noticed that I've " had enough " after a few mouthfuls.

 

>2. Regarding water, yes, follow your thirst. Your body will not request

>more

water than it needs, a.k.a., more than is " good for you " . As long as you

remain overfat (overweight), your system will remain dehydrated 24x7 to some

degree, and you will continue to experience " elevated thirst " . Consuming a

diet consisting of high water-content foods (fruits and tender greens) will

help a great deal, both in the short-term and by restoring health throughout

your being as quickly as possible. But you will likely continue to

experience thirst for some time to come.

 

I've found that I have fewer of the more obvious thirst symptoms (dry mouth,

headache, sore belly or " hunger pangs " ) when I eat raw, so I often go too

long without drinking water. I need to focus more on the quiet signs of

thirst I think.

 

3. Regarding electrolytes and sports drinks, I share the following, courtesy

of Dr. Doug Graham: Make your own sports drink by combining 1-2 bananas and

some celery in a quart (or more) of water). Blend thoroughly, drink as you

go. Works throughout the day, whether you are engaging in sports or not!

 

This is interesting, thankyou (and Doug) for sharing this. Interestingly, or

perhaps not, I tried a smoothie last week, with 3 bananas, and 3 dates, and

about a cup or 2 of water. It did not sit well. I had a belly ache, and felt

bloated. The day before I'd eaten 3 bananas and 3 dates together, drinking

water at the same time, and didn't have a problem, the same the day after.

Something about that smoothie just wasn't right though. I think it's back to

the chewing thing.

 

Anyway, the electrolytes I'm referring to are actually salts - when salts

dissolve in water, they actually dissociate into their ions - for example,

NaCl, or table salt, becomes Na+ and Cl-, floating around in water. These

ions have an electric charge, and so are called electrolytes. Potassium,

sodium, and various other charged elements, or ions, are vital for cell

metabolism and basic functions - a lot of substances require these ions to

enter, or permeate, the cell membrane. Thinking about it logically now, I

see that we get those substances from foods, so have answered my question,

and understood the answer you've given me, thankyou!

 

>4. Regarding dietary fat requirements for infants, human mother's milk

provides the majority of calories from fats. So yes, human infants do have a

relatively high fat requirement ... and that requirement is fully satisfied

by the milk of a healthy human mother.

 

So, when an infant goes from being fed the milk of a healthy human mother,

and starts eating their own solid food, does this need for fat disappear? I

realise we grow out of it at some stage, but I'm thinking 2 or 3 is a bit

young, and a LOT of growing is done between then, and the teen years.

Open-minded though I am, I know that I won't continue breastfeeding that

long. Not that I give a hoot what society thinks, but I can't run the risk

of someone assuming I'm abusing my child (I'm a single mother, and my ex has

made threats). I do know mothers who have fed their children to age 7 and

beyond - I've read that we're infant for 7 years, child for 7 years,

adolescent for 7 years, and so on, so in an ideal situation, feeding to 7

years seems quite do-able to me. Not at the moment though.

 

In addition, as Anna mentioned a couple of weeks ago, breastmilk is only

about 10% fat, by volume, so probably around 30-50% by calories, is this

about right? I saw that myself, when he was much younger (around 4 months),

when I was catching the letdown - I couldn't express much milk. I have no

idea what it's like now. With him eating his fruit, and one avocado a day

he's at around 13-17% fats, I'm sure as he grows, and eats more fruit, this

ratio will drop to the 10% or less. Is this about on track?

 

>IGNORE ALL GROWTH CHARTS. These are based upon the growth rates of cowmans,

not humans. Just throw them in the garbage and never look at one again.

 

Done and done ) He's always been average or better anyway, so I've never

had a worry, but a lot of vegan mums seem to have problems with it. But

while I might not be worried about it, doctors seem to think that it's

essential that babies fit the charts, and so prescribe all sorts of garbage

to get them up to snuff, and there is always the chance that one will be

reported if baby isn't fat, regardless of how active and interested they may

be.

 

>The " practice of medicine " is a commercial activity, having little to do

with any sort of science. So OF COURSE what you learned in real science

courses conflicts with the teachings of the medical community!!!

 

That makes a lot of sense, thanks ) I always assumed that doctors learned

science, based on the content of their courses at uni, but even my medical

science degree was taught from the " mainstream medicine " perspective, rather

than pure science. I've connected the dots only recently.

 

>The more quickly you can forget all that you ever learned from doctors,

>parents, etc.

about health and nutrition, the better off you will be!!!

 

I believe this. Unfortunately, I have to prove to them that I'm not

endangering or destroying my son in the process.

 

>Well, hope these comments prove constructive to you and to others.

 

Very, as usual ) Thankyou for sharing your time and answering my

questions.

 

Caron