Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 thank you neal.. there is no right/wrong in buddhism true. we are talking about losing weight as the goal..in this scenario this is right. choice would be deciding to create movement towards that goal..if that is the desired end. In thiscase, him losing weigh was the desired end. i have never been morbidly obese. I could never be.I dont have it in me. I have a built in switch at 160..which for 5ft3in is high enough... i comment only on the ability to choose. Which hasnothing to do with body fat%..but everything todo with attitude. i saw this man walk away from his at 250. Otherschose to ignore that and see only that at 1000 or less he became dependent. he was thin before he was dependent. Or maybe not. Maybe was was born a 50lb baby and was morbidly obese from childhood on. I dont have that info... what i DO know is at 1000 he CHOSE to get a grip. Which means he had the personal power to do it all along but didnt. each one of us has the mental power to accomplish anything with their bodies. Just choose. On 6/21/07, neal <kneel.pardoe wrote: > What an interesting thread! > > Anna, > > Buddha said " there are deeds but no doer thereof " . This is exactly the same > with choice/chooser. > > I would debate the point of 'choice' with you but it would be entirely off > topic for this group and it is a pretty deep subject. > > so just a couple of points to throw in here. > > Making a choice, or as I've seen in this thread, 'right choice' is purely a > matter of personal judgement based on an individuals view of the world. > It is what they believe to be correct and proper or not. It is a *personal* > view, narrow and limited in scope by its personal origins and appropriate > *only* to its holder. > > A choice is only going to be as good as the goodness of its base elements; > experiential history, conditioning, reason, mental and physical health. > > Now Anna, or anyone else who has posted opinion on this, and I don't know if > any of you have experienced exactly the same conditions and circumstances as > those of the 'morbidly obese' being discussed. > > But please, someone tell me how do you know how to make a 'right' > decision/choice given these circumstances? > > I find it far more outrageous that our Governments allow such things as SAD > to > happen, to be sold as food no less, not surprising, just outrageous. > > neal. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 What an interesting thread! Anna, Buddha said " there are deeds but no doer thereof " . This is exactly the same with choice/chooser. I would debate the point of 'choice' with you but it would be entirely off topic for this group and it is a pretty deep subject. so just a couple of points to throw in here. Making a choice, or as I've seen in this thread, 'right choice' is purely a matter of personal judgement based on an individuals view of the world. It is what they believe to be correct and proper or not. It is a *personal* view, narrow and limited in scope by its personal origins and appropriate *only* to its holder. A choice is only going to be as good as the goodness of its base elements; experiential history, conditioning, reason, mental and physical health. Now Anna, or anyone else who has posted opinion on this, and I don't know if any of you have experienced exactly the same conditions and circumstances as those of the 'morbidly obese' being discussed. But please, someone tell me how do you know how to make a 'right' decision/choice given these circumstances? I find it far more outrageous that our Governments allow such things as SAD to happen, to be sold as food no less, not surprising, just outrageous. neal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 i have found it to be so. do things have to line up? Maybe....but we can line things up ourselves.. mayb you would rather see the word " potential " for enough power to change..since the decision is not made till its made. if we dont decide how our bodies are going to look, who does?....the federal govt?....if you let them.....theyll make you obese and diabetic...big pharma is THRILLED to pick your body for you. people who dont think they have the power to choose are people that wont. there are legless men in marathons....! cancer survivers!...people that should be dead but REFUSE to give in.... i believe thats in everyone. If theyd just believe it. william wallace comes to mind...freedom is yours if youll just take it! Unless ofcourse youre afraid to... peace anna On 6/21/07, neal <kneel.pardoe wrote: > On Thursday 21 June 2007 18:20, Anna Bishop wrote: > > thank you neal.. > > there is no right/wrong in buddhism true. > > I think you'll find that true of will power too. (at least in Dzogchen). > and responsibility > and individuality, > > > > we are talking about losing weight as the goal..in this scenario this is > > right. choice would be deciding to create movement towards that goal..if > > that is the desired end. In thiscase, him losing weigh was the desired > end. > > > > i have never been morbidly obese. I could never be.I dont have it in > > me. I have a built in switch at 160..which for 5ft3in is high > > enough... > > i comment only on the ability to choose. Which hasnothing to do with > > body fat%..but everything todo with attitude. > > ok, but the reality of making a choice is not just this or that? There are > many many factors involved, personal health and wellbeing included. > > > i saw this man walk away from his at 250. Otherschose to ignore that > > and see only that at 1000 or less he became dependent. > > > > he was thin before he was dependent. Or maybe not. Maybe was was born > > a 50lb baby and was morbidly obese from childhood on. I dont have that > > info... > > ok, > > > > > what i DO know is at 1000 he CHOSE to get a grip. Which means he had > > the personal power to do it all along but didnt. > > But that doesn't make sense. He either has personal power or doesn't. If it > takes personal power to break the cycle, he only had it at the time the > cycle > was broken. Sorry, but you can't separate away the fact that it happened at > 1000lbs weight. Superficially at least, it looks like there is a missing > ingredient until he reaches this weight and we don't know what other factors > may have come into play by this landmark or what new significance it may > carry for that individual. > > > > each one of us has the mental power to accomplish anything with their > > bodies. Just choose. > > All I can say is that I no longer believe that as I have not found it to be > so. > > neal. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 On Thursday 21 June 2007 18:20, Anna Bishop wrote: > thank you neal.. > there is no right/wrong in buddhism true. I think you'll find that true of will power too. (at least in Dzogchen). and responsibility and individuality, > we are talking about losing weight as the goal..in this scenario this is > right. choice would be deciding to create movement towards that goal..if > that is the desired end. In thiscase, him losing weigh was the desired end. > > i have never been morbidly obese. I could never be.I dont have it in > me. I have a built in switch at 160..which for 5ft3in is high > enough... > i comment only on the ability to choose. Which hasnothing to do with > body fat%..but everything todo with attitude. ok, but the reality of making a choice is not just this or that? There are many many factors involved, personal health and wellbeing included. > i saw this man walk away from his at 250. Otherschose to ignore that > and see only that at 1000 or less he became dependent. > > he was thin before he was dependent. Or maybe not. Maybe was was born > a 50lb baby and was morbidly obese from childhood on. I dont have that > info... ok, > > what i DO know is at 1000 he CHOSE to get a grip. Which means he had > the personal power to do it all along but didnt. But that doesn't make sense. He either has personal power or doesn't. If it takes personal power to break the cycle, he only had it at the time the cycle was broken. Sorry, but you can't separate away the fact that it happened at 1000lbs weight. Superficially at least, it looks like there is a missing ingredient until he reaches this weight and we don't know what other factors may have come into play by this landmark or what new significance it may carry for that individual. > > each one of us has the mental power to accomplish anything with their > bodies. Just choose. All I can say is that I no longer believe that as I have not found it to be so. neal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Personal power. It is possible to have it but not to feel it/know it. In a sense, both are right. Basically, it does all come down to us individually. Of course it does. And no outside source has more control over us than ourselves unless we give it. That said, it is insulting to assume nothing else is at stake than our desires. I desired health for a long long time, and it's insulting for people to say I didn't because otherwise I would have it. Emotional abuse, the ensuing addictions.... it's demeaning to have no control, etc. or to want to die you feel so miserable in your body but to keep poisoning it. But we do ultimately have that choice, overall. It's painful to accept the reality that we cause our own suffering most of the time, but if health and fitness was so easy, more people would be doing it. Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 no one said it was easy. no one said you could will good health. im saying that what we eat is our CHOICE. thats it. i dont know why anyone would disagree with that premise. When there was an example of someone 1000lbs they totally thought someone else decided for him what he ate. I dont know where that came from 'cause he wasnt on an IV and no one said he was force fed... its a mystery. peace anna On 6/21/07, School Of Rawk <schoolofrawk wrote: > Personal power. It is possible to have it but not to feel it/know it. In a > sense, both are right. > > Basically, it does all come down to us individually. Of course it does. > And no outside source has more control over us than ourselves unless we give > it. > > That said, it is insulting to assume nothing else is at stake than our > desires. I desired health for a long long time, and it's insulting for > people to say I didn't because otherwise I would have it. Emotional abuse, > the ensuing addictions.... it's demeaning to have no control, etc. or to > want to die you feel so miserable in your body but to keep poisoning it. > > But we do ultimately have that choice, overall. It's painful to accept the > reality that we cause our own suffering most of the time, but if health and > fitness was so easy, more people would be doing it. > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. > Answers - Check it out. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I contend that it's not a mystery ... and it's also not so much a choice as you might believe. More coming in a couple of days ... Elchanan _____ rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of Anna Bishop Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:18 PM rawfood Re: [Raw Food] Re: was let's do a poll no one said it was easy. no one said you could will good health. im saying that what we eat is our CHOICE. thats it. i dont know why anyone would disagree with that premise. When there was an example of someone 1000lbs they totally thought someone else decided for him what he ate. I dont know where that came from 'cause he wasnt on an IV and no one said he was force fed... its a mystery. peace anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 On Thursday 21 June 2007 20:51, Anna Bishop wrote: > i have found it to be so. > > do things have to line up? Maybe....but we can line things up ourselves.. > > mayb you would rather see the word " potential " for enough power to > change..since the decision is not made till its made. Doesn't really make a difference. The point I'm trying to make is that maybe it is not quite so black and white as you paint it. > > if we dont decide how our bodies are going to look, who does?....the > federal govt?....if you let them.....theyll make you obese and > diabetic...big pharma is THRILLED to pick your body for you. > > people who dont think they have the power to choose are people that wont. > > there are legless men in marathons....! > cancer survivers!...people that should be dead but REFUSE to give in.... > > i believe thats in everyone. If theyd just believe it. hehe, doing that used to get me into all sorts of trouble. LOL > william wallace comes to mind...freedom is yours if youll just take > it! Unless ofcourse youre afraid to... > > peace > anna > phew! I thought you were going to start fantasizing about Mel Gibson. neal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Anna, I 100% don't disagree with your premise. I agree that it's shocking anybody would. The people bringing a 1000 lb person food are totally guilty too in that case. Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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