But I only eat organic, free range... Etc, etc...

[Guest guest]

So often I run into vegetarians who, when they find out I’m vegan, say something like this:

 

“Well I eat eggs and dairy but I only eat organic, free range...etc, etc...” or “I get my goat cheese (or eggs or milk, etc) from a local farm” or something like that.

 

Assuming others run into this same situation I’d greatly appreciate hearing feedback on what to say or do with the goal of promoting veganism in that moment. Sometimes this happens with someone I’m not going to see again and other times it happens with people I have ongoing relationships with.

 

I also have this same dilemma with environmentalists except it goes something like this:

 

“I only eat niman ranch meat” or “I only eat free range chickens” or “I eat only organic, humanely raised beef”, etc...

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Please feel free to email me on or off the group list

 

~Cybrena

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

Cybrena, I know what you mean! This is a great question. I've done a lot of tabling to raise awareness of factory farming, to promote a vegan diet, and we use a model of battery caged hens. The battery caged hens do draw attention, people will snap photos of it with their cellphones, and we inevitably get people asking about sources for free range eggs or humanely raised "meat".

 

I constantly remind myself: it's important to acknowledge that people are taking the first step by realizing that animal based foods are inherently wrong (i.e. animals are exploited, suffer, and are slaughtered, often inhumanely). At first glance, to these folks, the 'obvious' answer to battery cage eggs is to eat cage-free eggs/free range eggs or "humanely raised meat". That's also the most easiest. People pay a little bit more and feel a little bit better. And, yes, it *does* make an incremental difference for the individual animals.

 

But I agree with you that the ultimate best goal (for all involved, the individual human, animals & environment) is vegan. Here's some FAQ sites that may have some helpful info. There are more, try googling for vegan FAQ.

 

http://www.peta.org/about/faq-veg.asp

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html

 

I think often knowing what to say just comes with practice, knowing in advance what to say and how to say it quickly and with a sense of humor. Everyone's responses may vary since we're veg*n for different reasons. But maybe that is a good exercise to think and remind ourselves about:

 

Why did we choose to become vegetarian/vegan?

Take those answers and distill them into a meaningful and concise answers that you can share.

 

Standard communication techniques emphasize building a relationship - showing commonality: "When I first learned about the cruelty and suffering in animal foods, I went vegetarian to help animals. But then I learned that chickens raised to lay eggs and cows confined and repeatedly bred to produce milk are among the animals who suffer most in factory farming, and with all the new vegan products and dairy substitutes, it was so easy and I haven't missed eggs or dairy at all."

 

 

When I'm tabling, typically conversations last only minutes with people... so I prefer to emphasize the cruelty and then follow-up with information on alternatives (it's important to provide both):

 

even if free range, male chicks can't lay eggs & are commonly killed by suffocated or ground alive; free range chickens are still de-beaked; there is a lack of certification/inspection around free range and it's difficult to know how the animals are really treated unless you visit the source

 

even if organic, cows are mammals like people; like women - they only produce milk for babies, therefore they are repeatedly inseminated and must give birth to calves. baby calves are separately prematurely from their mothers so humans can drink their milk instead. we are the only species to drink the milk of another species. baby calves become veal calves (confined in small pens to prevent muscle development for a certain 'quality' in their flesh) or grow up to become replacements for their mothers.

 

 

There are also excellent health arguments that can be made for vegan. Especially against dairy. I read The China Study a few months back, and if you can read past all the talk about animal experimentation in his early career, there is a wealth of health information in there, esp. about the link between casein (a dairy protein) and cancer.

 

 

Cheers,

Tammy

 

A dead cow or sheep lying in the pasture is recognized as carrion. The same sort of carcass dressed and hung up in a butchers stall passes as food. - J. H. Kellogg

 

Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. - George Bernard Shaw

[Guest guest]

Hello all,I just want to point out that not all vegetarians are veg for animal rights reasons. I find it a bit disappointing that there is SO much focus on turning veggies vegan, for the exact reason Tammy pointed out, that veggies have already taken the first step of an often dramatic life-style choice. As a five-year veg who has no plans of going vegan any time soon (though I probably do eat 50% vegan un/consciously), I will say that I am veg first and foremost for feminist and environmental reasons and secondly for health reasons. Animal rights falls last on my list, despite being on the board of an animal-rights organization and promoting the rights of non-human animals in my personal and academic lives. I am not trying to argue a point, but simply point out that animal rights is not the turning point for everyone. Also, I would like to say that veggies are the first to understand the inherent contradictions in their/our choices not to be vegan. It is disappointing-- and often alienating-- when vegans are so hard-pressed to convert us veggies-- especially when we are huge activists who devote much of our energy to the veg cause. I simply feel there are bigger mountains to climb.

Best, On 9/15/07, Tammy, BAVeg <t wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

Cybrena, I know what you mean! This is a great question. I've done a lot of tabling to raise awareness of factory farming, to promote a vegan diet, and we use a model of battery caged hens. The battery caged hens do draw attention, people will snap photos of it with their cellphones, and we inevitably get people asking about sources for free range eggs or humanely raised " meat " .

 

I constantly remind myself: it's important to acknowledge that people are taking the first step by realizing that animal based foods are inherently wrong (i.e. animals are exploited, suffer, and are slaughtered, often inhumanely). At first glance, to these folks, the 'obvious' answer to battery cage eggs is to eat cage-free eggs/free range eggs or " humanely raised meat " . That's also the most easiest. People pay a little bit more and feel a little bit better. And, yes, it *does* make an incremental difference for the individual animals.

 

But I agree with you that the ultimate best goal (for all involved, the individual human, animals & environment) is vegan. Here's some FAQ sites that may have some helpful info. There are more, try googling for vegan FAQ.

 

http://www.peta.org/about/faq-veg.asp

 

 

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html

 

I think often knowing what to say just comes with practice, knowing in advance what to say and how to say it quickly and with a sense of humor. Everyone's responses may vary since we're veg*n for different reasons. But maybe that is a good exercise to think and remind ourselves about:

 

Why did we choose to become vegetarian/vegan?

Take those answers and distill them into a meaningful and concise answers that you can share.

 

Standard communication techniques emphasize building a relationship - showing commonality: " When I first learned about the cruelty and suffering in animal foods, I went vegetarian to help animals. But then I learned that chickens raised to lay eggs and cows confined and repeatedly bred to produce milk are among the animals who suffer most in factory farming, and with all the new vegan products and dairy substitutes, it was so easy and I haven't missed eggs or dairy at all. "

 

 

When I'm tabling, typically conversations last only minutes with people... so I prefer to emphasize the cruelty and then follow-up with information on alternatives (it's important to provide both):

 

even if free range, male chicks can't lay eggs & are commonly killed by suffocated or ground alive; free range chickens are still de-beaked; there is a lack of certification/inspection around free range and it's difficult to know how the animals are really treated unless you visit the source

 

even if organic, cows are mammals like people; like women - they only produce milk for babies, therefore they are repeatedly inseminated and must give birth to calves. baby calves are separately prematurely from their mothers so humans can drink their milk instead. we are the only species to drink the milk of another species. baby calves become veal calves (confined in small pens to prevent muscle development for a certain 'quality' in their flesh) or grow up to become replacements for their mothers.

 

 

There are also excellent health arguments that can be made for vegan. Especially against dairy. I read The China Study a few months back, and if you can read past all the talk about animal experimentation in his early career, there is a wealth of health information in there, esp. about the link between casein (a dairy protein) and cancer.

 

 

Cheers,

Tammy

 

A dead cow or sheep lying in the pasture is recognized as carrion. The same sort of carcass dressed and hung up in a butchers stall passes as food. - J. H. Kellogg

 

Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. - George Bernard Shaw

 

-- M. Mello " I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights, for that is the way of the whole human being. " -- Abraham Lincoln