Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I agree wholeheartedly " that BAV members should be able to comfortably (and I add respectfully) discuss thesse issues and ask questions about local veg folks and veg businesses. " That is a valuable benefit and component of being a member. I have no issue with anyone raising pertinent questions in a respectful, kind, and grown-up manner - it is in fact the very reason why I enjoy reading many of the opinions expressed on varous issues. However, postings along the lines of ' I hear a rumor that so and so...' are highly irresponsible, unfair and unkind. Raising the question is perfectly understandable - raising it in this manner fits the exact requirements the Enquirer has for publishing their stories - unconfirmed, unsubstantiated, and potentially hurtful to people. This is the precise reason the Enquirer gets sued for rmillions of dollars all the time - besides being illegal to publicly spead rumors about people (it's called liebel) it can be incredibly hurtful to people - as in the opposite of compasionate, which is one of the traits this community encourages. This is a public forum read by thousands of people I believe (haven't checked the numbers lately) and posting something before checking your facts that has to do with another person's character who is well known in this community, is not only potentially liebel and grounds for a lawsuit, but also beneath the scope of this list. I sincerely hope to continue to see informative, meaningful discourse on this list and encourage those who would like to inform others about the community to do some research, get their facts straight before posting something as true (like good reporters do for good reason) or simply ask a question of the community if they are not sure, as opposed to involving any unsubstantiatied insinuations. A sincere thank you to all those who have taken the time to share interesting, thought-provoking, informative, inspiring posts. Sincerely, Lina Alex Bury <alexb BAV mail list Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:16:13 -0500 asking about vegetarian restaurant employees I don't see any problem with asking about the veg status of Eric Tucker or Café Gratitude employees or anyone else, for that matter. Nor do I find it to be merely " gossip. " It's important. We live in a meat-eating world and we all know that our money often goes to slaughterhouses, even if we're strict vegans ourselves. When I paid my mechanic $500 last month, I'm sure some of that money went to meat purchases (although he did take a Veg Starter Kit!). That sucks, but that's life, and at the very least we can make every interaction with a meat-eater an interaction of positive advocacy for animals. However, if I have a choice of giving my money to a meat-eater or a vegan, I will of course choose the vegan. And if I'm eating out, to relax, on my " down " time-you bet I want to be with people who are compassionate and don't hurt animals. I would be very disappointed to go to a veg restaurant, settle in for a nice meal, and then be told by my waiter that he " has " to eat meat. Animal rights activists are often sneered at, laughed at, flipped off for their bumper stickers, and confronted with angry (defensive, cowardly) people. We need to support each other when we can, and that includes in places we consider our safe havens. If I go to dinner with my neighbors, and they all eat animals, that dinner is going to be work. If I go to dinner with other veg folks, in a veg place, that meal will be-hopefully-precious time off. No debating, no explaining, no stupid questions, and no reminders of animal cruelty for a little window of time. If my server reminds me of animal cruelty, or if I find out the person who made my vegan dinner eats animals, I'll be sad and it will take away from the experience. I might still eat there, simply because vegan establishments are so precious. But I might choose another vegan place next time, for example, Golden Era or Feel Real Café. There the owners and chefs are all vegan and they vocally support veganism. I'll feel better when I pay the check. We cannot be judgmental to meat-eaters in our daily interactions, because that turns people off of a compassionate diet. But that doesn't mean there is no room for judgment. We are not asking if a certain restaurant owner wears blue clothes, because we only like red. We are asking if they actively support and pay for animal torture. Because that is what is eating animal flesh, milk, and eggs is-it is paying someone to hurt and kill animals for our pleasure. I believe that if we all found out a server at our favorite vegan restaurant was a child abuser, we would all place judgment on him. We would not want him to serve us, we would not want him to have our money, we would wonder why the restaurant couldn't hire kind people. And nobody would say that our concerns were " gossiping " or inappropriate. Animal abuse is as horrible as child abuse, and eating animal products is animal abuse. We are a veg community, and we are a minority among meat-eaters. We need to support each other, which this list does. One of the many reasons this list is so great is the information shared on it. I want to know what restaurant owners are veg, which ones don't give a damn, which business has defensive dairy-eating employees. That way I can make more informed decisions about where I want to spend my money and my down time. I feel that BAV list members should be able to comfortably discuss these issues and ask any questions about local veg folks and veg businesses. And to end on a positive note-thanks to BAV, I learned about Feel Real Café and I finally went there the other night. YUM. I've heard there's some question about their hours, so you may want to call ahead, but I'm going to review them for the Ultimate Guide right away and I can't try to try their breakfast. The food was delicious, the owners/chefs are vegan, and the prices were very reasonable for the large portions. Alex ____ BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a non-profit 501 ©(3) community organization for veggies to network, find support and promote veg*nism. Events Calendar - http://bayareaveg.org/events Newsletter - http://bayareaveg.org/news Veg Mentor Program - http://bayareaveg.org/mentor Ultimate Guide - http://bayareaveg.org/ug Veg Food Finder - http://bayareaveg.org/finder Charter & Post Guidelines - http://bayareaveg.org/charter Compassionate Living Program - http://bayareaveg.org/cl Map It Veg - http://www.frappr.com/baveg ____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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