one more time about vegan cats....

[Guest guest]

Again, these issues are thoroughly and persuasively addressed in " Obligate

Carnivore, " a terrific new book I urge everyone with interest in this

subject, and particularly people opposed to feeding cats vegan food, to

read. Someone pointed out that in my previoous posting I neglected to give

the book's author's name, which is Jed Gillen. He is the director of

www.vegancats.com. FAQs are briefly addressed at

http://www.vegancats.com/faq.html.

 

I was not planning on addressing any points raised, but I definitely cannot

let this point go unaddressed as it is absolutely infuriating me:

As ethical vegans, the very best we can do to honor our carnivorous

companion animals, farm animals, the earth and all animals is to be in

control of and educated about the animals we choose to feed to

our carnivores.

 

I could not disagree more vehemently. As ethical vegans the very best we can

do to honor animals and the earth is to do everything possible to avoid

supporting animal slaughter and to reduce the demand for dead animals. If it

is at all possible to feed cats vegan food that they can live healthy lives

on (as thousands of cats are doing as we speak), we owe it to cows,

chickens, pigs, and turkeys to fully investigate whether there are viable

alternatives to killing them. What could be more speciesist and inconsistent

than not even valuing these animals' lives enough to fully investigate this

issue further? How is it ok for ethical vegans to consider their individual

animals' interests to be so much more important than chickens', turkeys',

cows', pigs', and other nameless, faceless animals?

 

Rather than give my own strong opinions regarding the other points

mentioned, and have this debate continue back and forth, I again

respectfully suggest that people hold off on continuing this discussion

until they've read " Obligate Carnivore. " Then consider the points Gillen

makes and share your thoughts--preferably at our book club on 11/2. I

believe Gillen effectively refutes all the arguments given below and

previously against ethical vegans feeding their companions meat-based food.

If, after reading the book, you disagree, I'd love to hear your thoughts and

discuss!

 

Thanks,

Nora

Kasie Maxwell [kasie]

Monday, October 13, 2003 9:08 AM

sfBAVeg

[sfBAVeg] Re: vegan cats

 

 

I whole-heartedly agree with your statements, Brian.

 

Lynn, if you are concerned with the animal suffering and lack of ethics

that

goes into every bag and can of commercial dog and cat food (I've studied

this issue as one of my passions for over 14 years), consider buying a

locally made raw-meat based diet for your cat. If you've ever read the

Pottinger studies on feline nutrition, you will learn that cats thrive on

a

raw meat based diet, and struggle tremendously with illness that lasts

just

a few generations (before they all die) when on a cooked diet. He did not

study a vegetarian diet - as this was not his focus - but I can only

imagine

how very ill those cats would have become over the long-term without

access

to natural game (mice, birds, etc.).

 

A raw meat based diet is so important to cats' long-term wellness. To

learn

more about feline nutrition, please visit these very informative sites:

www.felinefuture.com

http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/nutr.htm

http://www.holisticat.com/articles.html

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

 

 

In my years of experience, I have seen miracle cures and astonishing

changes

in chronically ill cat's lives with just this change to a diet nature

designed for them to eat. Both my raw fed cats easily and healthfully

lived

to be in their twenties (after switching at age 9 and age 15 - both were

given just 3-6 months and 1 yr to live respectively, but well outlived

these

expectations with only a change in diet). Their last years they enjoyed

incredible, vibrant health - better than they ever experienced during

their

first, younger years or kitten hood even. The change was so dramatic, I

could never imagine not feeding raw to a cat again.

 

Why do I recommend a locally made or home-made diet rather than a large

commercial diet? For the farm animals' sake and for ethical reasons.

Because marketing is deceptive - it is not truth. ALL nationally

distributed, commercially made pet foods, even the natural or high-end

foods, are not in full control over where they their fat and protein

sources

come from. ALL national foods (even Steve's Real Food for Pets - a raw

meat

diet) are formulated in large pet food processing plants - along with the

known unethical/abusive dog food manufacturers like Iams, Science Diet,

Purina, Old Roy, etc. These companies absolutely for certain use 4D

meats,

any and all sorts of rotting and rancid meats from supermarket shelves,

and

rendered dogs/cats euthanized at shelters and veterinary offices. They

render rancid and rotting packaged meat (with the plastic and Styrofoam

included) along the farm animals, dogs and cats with their flea collars,

tags, cancerous tumors, drugs used on them before they were euthanized and

worst of all sodium Phenobarbital (euthanasia solution). Although

" natural "

pet foods such as Wellness, Nutro and others have a good starting recipe

and

better intentions on how they want their food to be formulated, since

their

foods are actually manufactured far away in these large pet food

manufacturing plants and what goes into these foods is completely under

these pet food manufactures' control - they really can't say with 100%

certainty what really is in their pet food, or if their recipes are even

being followed as requested. (there was a great article in the Whole Dog

Journal about this where the owners of Nutro? admitted this in an

interview). Also, the meats used are 100% for certain not organic or

free-range or grass-fed - this is a certainty. Those are all little bits

of

factory farmed animals in those bags and cans of dog/cat food.

 

I have an investigative report that shows which national pet foods have

traces of sodium Phenobarbital in them (indicating that euthanized dogs

and

cats were used in the making of these foods). Nutro is on this list.

Many

others like Wellness, Solid Gold, etc. were not tested unfortunately - but

it would have been interesting to see what their levels were.

 

This doesn't even touch on the real fact that all pet food (canned or

bagged) is literally cooked to death. Which destroys natural enzymes,

minerals, vitamins and other good stuff found in fresh foods (meat,

veggies,

etc.) but leaves in the residues of all the nasties described above (like

sodium Phenobarbital, plastics, drugs, etc.).

 

More about commercial pet food:

http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=79

http://www.pcoc.net/dog-food.htm#Food%20Pets%20Die%20For

 

With a locally made or home-made diet you can have full control over what

farming methods and pet food ethics you support - by buying

humanely-raised

meats yourself or by speak directly to the person who makes the food

(usually it is one or two people who do everything from formulating the

recipes, buying and sourcing the raw ingredients, making and delivering

the

food - these are tiny businesses that make their foods in their own

kitchen).

 

For example, Feed This! (www.feedthis.com) and Jeffrey's Natural Pet Foods

(on 18th & Church in SF) use only locally raised grass-fed, range-free

and/or organic meats (humanely raised animals that are “certified humane”

by

3rd party authorities). Jeffrey buys meat from me (I run a raw food

co-op,

and fed raw to my animals), and I have actually gone to investigate each

and

every one of my sources. These are very small family farms that use the

humanist methods possible in raising and killing their animals (most of

slaughter their own animals on-site in small, USDA certified processing

plants on their own land or by friend or trusted neighbor nearby - the

animals are never transported crammed in a truck for miles & miles with an

uncaring handler). They allow their animals (dog-guarded, pastured lamb

and

grass-fed beef) to forage and roam on acres and acres of gorgeous natural,

organic land for the entirety for their existence - they are never fed

commercial feeds, drugged or chemical, and never put into a feed-lot or

crammed pen. Additionally, they only " process " a few animals a month -

these are not large processing plants by any stretch. My lamb source

processes 15 lamb/month at peak season - my beef guy only processes 4-5 at

a

time every few weeks. These are foods made with care, for all the animals

(both domestic and farm animals) AND the land they are raised on.

 

Anyway - I completely understand as a 20+ year ethical vegan, how

difficult

it is to deal with feeding a carnivorous pet - it is still hard for me

sometimes, too. But it's only fair - they were designed by nature to hunt

and consume other animals and really, don't we want them to thrive in as

close to perfect wellness as they can be, and to respect nature by feeding

them an appropriate diet?

 

When I see how incredibly healthy my rescued animals are, that their:

* ears are clean and smell good

* eyes absolutely shine

* teeth never need to be cleaned and are gorgeous pearly whites

* coats are shiny, clean and flea-free without the use of flea-drugs

* muscle tone is well, sexy

* energy is vibrant and unbelievable sometimes for their ages

* are calm, gentle and satisfied companions

* immune systems are operating at its peak (wounds can heal literally

overnight, hair re-grows very quickly, they are never sick (and not

vaccinated), our vet bills are pretty much nil)

* poops are small, odorless and decompose in days, not months or years (it

actually looks a lot like wild-animal scat and unlike dog/cat food poop,

it

turns white and then to falls to dust to fed the earth minerals in a

matter

of days - whereas dog/cat food poop remains for months or years a smelly

glop of the earth, only turning fuzzy after a while, but still remains for

along time - it doesn't at all decompose like a raw fed animals feces

does)

 

- it is well worth it. As ethical vegans, the very best we can do to

honor

our carnivorous companion animals, farm animals, the earth and all animals

is to be in control of and educated about the animals we choose to feed to

our carnivores.

 

I do hope you reconsider, or perhaps consider adopting an abused or

at-risk/homeless natural herbivore/vegetarian animal like a dove, tortoise

or iguana - so you can comfortably live within your ethics along with your

animal companions.

 

Best wishes to you and your cats.

 

Kasie

 

> Since you are still just " considering " the issue, consider this:

> If you could ask your cats if they want to be vegan, would they

> say yes? There is a reason that they have their alimentary

> tract, razor sharp teeth, and retractile sharp claws. They are

> hunters by nature.

>

> --Brian