Re:More on mushrooms and something on comfrey

June 16, 2002

hi joyce,

thanks for the informative reply

> Message: 3> Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:38:07 -0700> "Joyce Divic" <jdivic> Fw: More on mushrooms and something on comfrey>> <arggghhh>... shrooms (criminies, that is) are one of my favorite snacks. i wonder if the rat's food was cooked. if you read dr. walker's book, "colon health", he mentions some veggie's that are high in oxalic acid as being problematic if *cooked*. i wonder if that applies to isothiocyanates also <i hope.... i hope...>. does anybody know ???

> Actually, I thought he wrote that oxalic acid is present in raw food such as spinach and cooking destroys it?

not that we should take walker's writings as bible but i just read the oxalic chapter in walker's "raw vegetable juices" and he refers to cooked oxalic acid as being detrimental to the body and raw as beneficial. he sums up the chapter with this paragraph (p.86) ... "it is well to bear in mind, therefore, that, as the organic (*) oxalic acid is so vital to our well being, the fresh raw juice of the vegetables containing it should used daily to supplement the eating of those raw vegetables included in our daily salads". (* organic means raw in this case).

walker does caution eating foods high in oxalic acid like rhubarb and cranberries which i'm not at all attracted too.

>Although he did mention that you would need to eat copious quantities to create a response. Isn't oxalic acid a calcium inhibitor or is it that it draws calcium out of the body's stores to neutralize its negative affects?

from walker (p85)... "oxalic acid readily combines with calcium. if these are both organic (he means raw again), the result is a beneficial constructive combination, as the former helps the digestive assimilation of the latter, at the same time stimulating the peristaltic functions in the body".

>Anyhow, I think raw juicing is another way to deal with the negative affects of oxalic acid.

> On Mushrooms...> Mushrooms are a fungi and fungi, as far as I know, are not a good food for the human body. Fungus in the body is highly toxic and taxes, possibly damages, the liver and kidneys - not to mention poisons the blood. Personally, I've tried eating mushrooms as a meal and as a condiment and find I am left spacey and in turn acquire pressure in the center of the head, pressure in my kidneys, my facial coloration turns pale and my hands turn yellowish - not a good experience for me!

wow... i've never had any reaction to them but i could be one of those 'nothing bothers them' kind of people'. jfi, not that this makes them a valid food but there sure are a lot of shrooms and irritating foods like garlic, onion, peppers, etc...used in the raw recipe books. (transitioning stuff ???)

>My understanding of mushrooms/fungi is that they act, similarly to seaweeds, as a filter of toxic substances. Removal of these toxic compounds by fungi then allows specific microbial life to safely help in the breakdown of fallen tree matter for example. Likewise, seaweeds are like acqua-filters for all the fish who do their toilet business in the water. Therefore, seaweed coupled with sea salt keeps the water from developing harmful bacteria. As well, algae are the acqua-filters and aerators for fresh-water pools. This is just my opinion and experience so please take it in that vein.

> On comfrey...> I did find an interesting excerpt from Tyler's Herbs of Choice (James E. Roberts PhD, Varro E. Tyler PhD, ScD) that states the following food for thought regarding the consumption of comfrey.> > "Whatever the therapeutic value comfrey may possess is attributed to its content of allantoin, a cell proliferant, and to rosmarinic acid, an anti-inflammatory agent and inhibitor of microvascular pulmonary injury. Unfortunately, these beneficial principles are accompanied in the herb by a large number of toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids that have been shown to cause cancer in small animals. Four cases of human poisoning by comfrey have now been reported, although it is not certain if all of them resulted from the ingestion of S.officinale (common comfrey). The identity of the species is important because it is now recognized that, although S.officinale contains toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PAs), it usually doesn't contain large quantities of the extremely dangerous echimidine found in S.asperum (prickly comfrey) or S. x uplandicum (Russian comfrey). In addition comfrey roots contain about ten times the concentration of PAs found in leaves, rendering the roots unsuitable for any therapeutic application. Health and Welfare Canada has long refused to register any comfrey root products for medicinal application." The following guidelines to use of comfrey as recommended by the authors are:> 1. The internal use of any species of comfrey should be avoided.> 2. Comfrey root should never be used medicinally.> 3. Only the mature leaves of S. officinale should be applied externally, and then only to intact skin for limited periods of time.> 4. Comfrey should never be used by pregnant or lactating women or by young children.> 5. Because there are so many other nontoxic yet affective treatments for minor skin ailments that do not present the hazards associated with this herb, comfrey has little, if any, place in our modern materia medica.> > Anyhow, Norm you probably know all the above...

no, but i do now <bummer>. actually, i have heard about the allantoin in comfrey but ignored it. > There is so much written for and against herbs and foods that it is hard sometimes to determine what is an authentic human food or not...I have a few gauges that I rely on in my life to help me determine the authenticity of my personal experience with "raw cuisine" and consequently raw thoughts and actions.> > JD's raw food gauge > 1. Removing the "food substance" from my diet for a length of six weeks. Then reintroducing it back into my diet. Staying open to the experience at that point. I try this method not only once but many times since my body is getting its natural intelligence back as it clears away the cobwebs of addictions and desires and illusions acquired over my life-span.

'removing the food substance' happens naturally for me with comfrey cuz it goes dormant in the fall. i've never had any reactions to it in the spring but then i get back into it gradually since it comes on slow and i start eating the young leaves in small quantities. and i just went four months without shrooms and noticed no reactions to them when i started eating them again but your 'reactions' to shrooms have got me thinking about it.

> 2. Making a complete meal out of the "food substance" and awaiting the results.

i sometimes eat a meal of shrooms but it isn't the sit down and eat till you can't eat anymore kinda meal. it's more like a big handful that'll last me a couple of hours.

> 3. Giving the "food substance" to our raw food son and awaiting the results.> 4. Currently, as I am pregnant/creating new life as well as maintaining my own, so much is being said by my body that I can't possibly deny it as I would end up being in bed or on the bowl...

part of my interest in eating these foods is that they can be foraged or grown locally. comfrey is commonly found on old homestead sites and it was supposed to increase milk and egg production but i don't know what else people did with it or why i ever starting eating it. i know i like it to use the leaves as a salad wrapper.

thanks for all the information, joyce, and i'm looking forward to meeting another raw baby.

norm )~~~~ raw food... simply delicious ~~~