Guest guest Posted May 19, 2002 Report Share Posted May 19, 2002 What I've read so far from " Awakening Our Self-Healing Body, " by Arthur Baker. Viruses are not living. Therefore, they cannot infect or attack cells. The main danger of viruses is in them being toxic to cells. If you have too many virus cells they will simply act as toxins. Apparently, viruses may be nothing more than the remnants of old cells when they are broken down by the body's lysosomes for elimination once the cell has died. Sometimes, this breakdown of old cells is incomplete due to the highly protective double-membrane sheath of these viruses. That supposedly is how these viruses come about. Viruses don't have any metabolism, they can't eat or reproduce, basically they are dead. I wonder how they were able to attribute so many things to viruses like attacking and ambushing cells if they aren't even alive? According to the book viruses are not contagious. He supposedly explains that in the next chapter. The reading was very technical and hard for me to discuss here in this group with many big words that I don't feel like trying to define. " The popular idea that dead organic matter (viruses) can kill off our natural defenses (white blood cells) is nonsense, as these easily guard our blood and fluids from even LIVING yeast and bacterial organisms. " " Dead organic material floating in our circulation are readily apprehended, engulfed, digested, and recycled via enzymatic action. Viruses are not alien invaders, but are internally created waste products of cellular decay. Uneliminated, this proteinaceous waste pollutes the circulation and is mislabeled a " virus. " " page 249 It appears that the eating of bodily wastes is explained more in another chapter of the book. That is attributed to bacteria but not to viruses that have no life. Arthur Baker appears to believe that viruses do not infect us but that when we get sick our body is trying to get rid of toxic substances and has nothing to do with a deadly living virus. Very interesting. I highly recommend this book to people. It also gives an in-depth discussion proving that humans are natural frugivores. I wonder what you think about all this Mark? It would probably be better for you to read directly what he had to say than through my post, as there was much more material than what I put up. He says that there is some disagreement between the medical profession and microbiologists. I'll post more later. Roger Haeske P.S. Get a Free 6 Step Technique to Transition to a Raw Diet, go to http://superbeing.com/awesometechnique.htm Roger Haeske [roger] Saturday, May 18, 2002 8:12 PM rawfood RE: [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. Great post Mark, I'll have to check in on one of my books called " Awakening Our Self-Healing Body " , by Arthur M. Baker. Actually he is or was a member of this group. His screen name has satsang in it. In his book he explains many things in depth regarding viruses and germ theory etc. When I was reading the book I was amazed that scientists aren't really sure what a virus is and they don't even think it is living. That doesn't seem to make any sense to me, at least on an intuitive level. Anyway, in his book I believe he supports ideas similar to what I have mentioned. Therefore, I want to see what someone who better understands viruses and bacteria than I, has to say about it. Of course, his viewpoint is skewed towards the Natural Hygiene viewpoint. It will be interesting reading. I'll post the highlights for further discussion. I am thoroughly enjoying adding more garlic to my diet. For me this isn't a problem since I make raw foods in which the raw garlic just adds to the flavor. I may end up eating seven cloves today. Though I don't think I'll really be tested until the fall when flu season hits. I usually don't get sick in the spring or summer. Is anyone else eating more garlic now? Roger Haeske P.S. Get a Free 6 Step Technique to Transition to a Raw Diet, go to http://superbeing.com/awesometechnique.htm placebos4u [mark] Saturday, May 18, 2002 2:51 PM rawfood Re: [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. Hi Roger Thanks for the discussion. I have to have a different opinion as to how and why viruses invade our bodies. I can't really come to terms with this description..<<The belief is that if your body is internally clean that viruses have nothing to feed on and therefore you won't get sick.>> Viruses are parasites and require to use a host cell in order to replicate. They dont carry the genetic machinery necessary for replication. So viruses dont actually feed so to speak. In fact viruses are often considered non-living. A particular virus has chemical receptors on its surface which chemically bind to a specific chemical on a cells surface. They lock together and the virus empties its genetic contents into the host cell. The host cells machinery is then converted to produce viral particles. There is no feeding as such. You can be perfectly healthy and still take viral particles on board and have them begin replication. Viruses are a natural part of life as are bacteria. The degree of illness will depend on the type of virus and how effectively your immune system can deal with it. Choosing to eat raw food is a good way to make sure your body receives lots of natural enzymes, proteins etc that ther body can utilise in the fight against infection. Cooking denatures protein chemical bonds leaving residual by products of those originally present. Its interesting you mention the infected cut. I read an article online somewhere, where a lady who already eats garlic regularly had a bacterial infection in her thumb. She ate more garlic, hoping this would help, but the infection remained. After two weeks without improvement and still a sore thumb she decided to apply garlic directly to the thumb. The next morning the swelling had reduced in size by half and the infection was cleared up inside 3 days. No prescribed antibiotics...but rather natural antibiotics. Interesting stuff Cheers Mark rawfood, " Roger Haeske " <roger@s...> wrote: > Nice post Mark. Your post had better information than all the sites and > books I was reading on Garlic last night and this morning. The info was > good because it was combined with your experience. > > As far as the colds theory, it is a common theory in the raw foods > movement. The belief is that if your body is internally clean that > viruses have nothing to feed on and therefore you won't get sick. Look > into the Arnold Ehret books the " Mucousless Diet Healing System " . He > blames mucous as a major culprit in causing disease, colds etc. His book > is from near the turn of the century and so it has lots of very old > data. Viruses supposedly feed off of the junk and mucous that is inside > our bodies, left over by poor eating habits and who knows what else. > > Of course, I am aware of the more accepted reasons for colds. But then > again I am a raw foodist and I have seen the amazing benefits of the raw > diet. A while back I cut my hand very badly and needed 18 stitches. The > doctors prescribed some kind of antibiotic to fight infection. I never > took any and had no infection problems. I also removed the stitches > myself saving myself at least two extra expensive doctor visits. > > Do you know for a 1.5 hour procedure in the hospital emergency room I > was billed $1,000 US. I think that was totally ludicrous. Now my father > tells me I didn't even need to get stitches. In the old days, he said > people wouldn't get stitches; they just deal with the problem on their > own. What he means by old days was when he was a child in the 40's and > 50's. > > I learned many years ago on my first attempts at the raw diet that > infections clear up on while going raw. I had previous experience not to > worry about infections. Now I can also supplement my diet with more > garlic to fight in those regards. Many people in the Natural Hygiene > Movement are against eating any kind of spicy food including garlic. > They feel these spicy and hot foods irritate our bodies and are > basically not good for the body. > > I just happen to love hot and spicy food so I haven't dropped that habit > as of yet. There may be good reasons to continue along these lines. Then > you have the people like David Wolfe who recommends spicy foods to > improve the health. The best method is trial and error. > > I know as a young child I hated hot foods. If I hated it then maybe it > is not natural for people to eat it. Then again, God put all these > wonderful herbs down here on our planet and maybe they are here to help > us heal. There are many questions to be asked and answered. > > I read somewhere that it is estimated that garlic has about 1% of the > antibiotic power of penicillin. I had about 6 cloves yesterday. I had a > little garlic breath this morning, but nothing major. > > Thanks again for your posts Mark. > > Roger Haeske > > P.S. Would you like to Discover the Easiest and Most Powerful Peak > Performance Program on the planet? This program will quickly improve all > areas of your life, is customized to your personality and circumstances, > and effortlessly overcomes previous negative beliefs and conditioning. > Go to http://www.superbeing.com/magicquestions.htm for your free report. > > placebos4u [mark@t...] > Saturday, May 18, 2002 5:24 AM > rawfood > Re: [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. > > Hi Roger > > I must say I have never heard of a cold described as you have > described it..<<Now I've heard that getting a cold is actually just a > detoxification of the body mostly a house cleaning.>> > > According to what I was taught at university during my biological > sciences degree a cold is an infection caused by a virus, and most > commonly from the group called Rhinoviridae. Most of the symptoms of > the cold are due to your own immune system responding to the > invasion. The greater the numbers of viruses the harder the immune > system works, making you feel very ill. Following this a secondary > infection of the bacterial sort often occurs. This results as your > immune system is working so hard making antibodies against the virus > that bacteria can reproduce more successfully. Damaging toxic > compounds are produced by bacteria, so you dont want this. > As far as I'm aware I still do get the viral infection but my immune > system is capable of knocking it on the head before the virus takes > over and builds into great numbers. The reason for this is that the > sulpher compounds contained in garlic penetrate well into the bodies > tissues and remain there. As garlic contains anti-fungal, anti- viral, > and anti-bacterial compounds any microorganisms invading the body are > killed off in the first instance by the sulpher compounds and then > secondarily by your own immune system. This means your immune system > is still working and responding. Without your immune system properly > functioning the virus would eventually take over as the sulpher > compounds will only slow the replication, not competely stop it. So > this means that a regular garlic eater has a dual protection system > to microorganism invasion. This is why I can feel the cold coming on, > but it never gets anywhere. > > According to research I have read raw garlic has a multitude of > health benefits. Population research shows major reductions in > various cancers of garlic eaters. This is especially true of stomach > and intestinal cancers. Blood is thinned by garlic, supposedly making > the blood less viscous and allowing more easy passage through > vessels. This means reduced chance of stroke, heart attack etc. > The smell associated with garlic comes from Allicin, which is a very > strong antibiotic, capable of killing Anthrax as far as I'm aware. > This antibiotic is formed after cutting the garlic when allinase > reacts with allian (spelling?), to produce the sulpher based > antibiotic. Sulper compounds often smell...recall rotten egg gas at > school. Or digging into the dark mud on a flat beach with little > tidal movement. Anaerobic bacteria often produce sulpher products > from metabolism. > > I recently read in a scientific magazine that the Swedish army > conducted a test on their soldiers using garlic. The soldiers were > becoming ill as a result of tick bites. Soldiers placed on a regular > garlic diet were not being infected by ticks and not becoming ill. > Vets also tell dog owners to feed it to their dogs to stop fleas, and > according to a friend of mine it works, not too surprising though. > > There is no doubt your raw food diet will give you much greater > health benefit and protection than cooked or processed food. Keep up > the garlic, it wont kill you. :-) > > Cheers > Mark > > > > > > -- In rawfood, " Roger Haeske " <roger@s...> wrote: > > Interesting post Mark. I've been on the all raw food diet for about > 9 > > months now. I have had a couple of colds in the wintertime. I have > been > > eating lots of raw garlic though not quite as much as you. There are > > days that I have around five cloves but not necessarily every day. > > > > Now I've heard that getting a cold is actually just a > detoxification of > > the body mostly a house cleaning. In addition, it is possible that > not > > getting a cold is a bad sign. When the body is too weak it will not > have > > enough elimination strength to give you a cold. I've read a story > or two > > of people never getting sick and thinking they are healthy and then > find > > one day that they have Cancer. > > > > I of course would prefer never to get a cold. I have heard of one > long > > time raw foodist who hasn't had a cold in 8 years. I know my colds > have > > been much shorter and less intense so far on the all raw diet. I'll > see > > what happens in a year or two of doing it, once my body has > detoxified > > much more. > > > > But I'll try having lots of garlic every single day and see if I > notice > > any changes. I probably average around 3 cloves per day as we > speak. By > > the way it doesn't make me smell. I blend it in to a dish I am > > preparing. I somehow think that being raw affects this smell aspect > of > > the garlic. > > > > I used to take garlic pearls many years ago and I would sometimes > sweat > > garlic. I don't have any problems like that with raw garlic. > > > > Roger Haeske > > P.S. Would you like to Discover the Easiest and Most Powerful Peak > > Performance Program on the planet? This program will quickly > improve all > > areas of your life, is customized to your personality and > circumstances, > > and effortlessly overcomes previous negative beliefs and > conditioning. > > Go to http://www.superbeing.com/magicquestions.htm for your free > report. > > > > placebos4u [mark@t...] > > Friday, May 17, 2002 4:43 PM > > rawfood > > [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. > > > > > > Hi folks. > > I have decided to write this to tell people of the amazing change > > regular raw garlic consumption has made to my life. I have no idea > if > > the same results would take place in all people. > > > > About 5 years ago I was fed up with catching colds that would turn > > into nasty viral/bacterial illnesses, making me cough > uncontrollably > > until incredibly sore. Muscles would ache, body would feel shocking > > and this would drag on for nearly 2 weeks at times. I worked around > > the public 7 days a week, and I guess was always exposed to germs. > > I had read or heard somewhere that garlic was supposed to help in > > dealing with infections. I was not one for taking a lot of notice > > about these kinds of things. My diet at the time was reasonably > > healthy, but still the colds would develop, along with gastro > > sicknesses at times too. > > I hopped onto the internet and searched for garlic links. I was > > surprised to read pages that everyday people like myself had posted > > explaining how garlic had incredibly changed their health status. > > That was it for me, I had to set the trial into action. > > Well, the trial has never ended. For five years I have consumed on > > average 4-5 raw cloves of garlic a day. There have been some days > > where I have not eaten it but these are rare. I eat it at tea time > > along with the rest of the family. We have all benefited greatly. > If > > one chooses to eat garlic at meal time, then its best that all do > for > > obvious reasons, unless you can tolerate the smell. By the next > > morning the smell after a shower has gone, in us anyway. It may > > become noticed if you sweat a lot or possibly have oily skin. > > > > As far as I'm concerned the health benefits far outweigh the smell > > which can result. > > > > After starting my garlic consumption, which I hated, because I > > couldnt stand it raw I have not had a single illness of any sort. I > > have experienced the feeling of an oncoming infection, but thats > all > > I experience. I feel a little bit tired and down for a few hours, > > although not to the point where I cant work. Basically I may have > one > > slightly run down day, where I feel a bit tired and odd. These are > > very rare, and occur 2-3 times a year, generally when the kids > catch > > a cold, which quickly clears up in them. Its as thought the cold > > passes through me and is gone before it develops into anything. > > I dont catch any colds, nor do I get any kind of gastric problems. > > I used to experience Tinea also during the summer, and I no longer > > get that. I used to do regular trips to the dentist, and have > > fillings. I no longer get any tooth decay at all. I am slightly > > overweight, and checkups at the doctor reveal excellent blood > > pressure and no cholesterol problems. The doctor is amazed that I > > dont have blood pressure considering I have a fairly physically > > inactive job, and dont get involved in sport. > > > > I have virtually forgotten what it is like to get sick. Garlic is > an > > absolutely amazing plant, that may reduce or eliminate so many > health > > problems in people if only they could overcome the smell stigma! > Just > > dont eat it before socialising is the way I look at it. Its rare > that > > people say they can smell it on me. Anyway who cares when life can > be > > illness free. Stink and ENJOY! :-) > > > > > > Cheers > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2002 Report Share Posted May 19, 2002 Hi Roger I have serious doubt about the accuracy of some of the statements you have taken from then said book. If I was you I would be careful with believing too much of it. I'll run through some off the statements you posted... <<Viruses are not living. Therefore, they cannot infect or attack cells.>> This is incorrect. Bacteria have been at war with viruses ever since life began. Bacteriophage are specialised viruses that attack particular bacteria types. recognition for the attack comes from surface bound proteins. The virus has surface proteins that recognise and lock chemically with a particular protein on the bacterial cell surface. This has been studied in great detail and much is known of the genetic sequence the genes which are coded for and what the resultant proteins do in the overall event. There is no argument in the scientific world with regard to this very basic understanding. It can be seen via electron microscopes without problem. Viruses are non-living in some respects and living in others. Its a bit like the duality of light with its combined wave and particle nature. All life forces operate via chemical reactions, recognition and energy transfer reactions. This is exactly how viruses operate. They have enough genetic machinery to shut down a cells operation and convert it into a virus factory. This is exactlt how the AIDS virus works. This virus recognises the T-lymphocyte molecule on the surface of white blood cells. Hence it directly attacks the bodies immune system. The reason that viruses are so difficult to deal with is the rate at which they alter there surface protein structure. Antibodies will build and recognise one cold virus, but the next one will have altered surface proteins making the respone time by the body very long. The AIDS virus is known to mutate some 10x faster than the common cold. So viruses are not capable of self replication but are very capable of successful reproduction in the presence of other organisms. <<The main danger of viruses is in them being toxic to cells. If you have too many virus cells they will simply act as toxins.>> I'll give you one example of how a virus can be damaging. The AIDS virus kills its host indirectly simply because the large number of viral particles produced within the lymphocyte punch the cell full of holes as they escape, the cell leaks its contents and dies. The immune system is weakened as lymphocytes are lost at a fast rate and microorganisms can invade the body without any resistance. This has nothing to do with toxins. Bacteria are largely responsible for producing deadly toxins as a by product of their metabolism. <<Apparently, viruses may be nothing more than the remnants of old cells when they are broken down by the body's lysosomes for elimination once the cell has died.>> A virus certainly isnt the remnant of an old cell. The specific genetic code contained within a virus is not found in the body, they are virus specific. Unless of course you have been infected with a virus which incorporated its DNA into your own DNA. The DNA sits there like a time bomb waiting to be triggered into action. <<I wonder how they were able to attribute so many things to viruses like attacking and ambushing cells if they aren't even alive? No differently to how the multitiude of chemical reactions all ready take place in your body. Never underestimate chemical recognition, its how we work. This is the reason you eat raw food, so you can ingest chemical products useful to the body, which the body may not be able to synthesise itself. A virus deosnt really ambush a cell as such. It doesnt sit there thinking up ways of attack. It works by simple chemical reactions. These reactions can be altered in the lab by altering gene sequences to produce different proteins. When an embryo is developing three independant sets of nerves are built, those in the brain, those in the spine and those in the body. Each nerve cell has a particular chemical recognition for its own kind and finds it amid the millions of others. Nothing brings them together other than chemistry. <<According to the book viruses are not contagious.>> I cant understand how he could possibly argue this. This is a very well documented and thoroughly studied area. We all catch colds being in the presence of those with colds. Cold viruses are easily passed via airborne droplets discharged via your nose or mouth. << " The popular idea that dead organic matter (viruses) can kill off our natural defenses (white blood cells) is nonsense, as these easily guard our blood and fluids from even LIVING yeast and bacterial organisms. " >> Our immune defences dont guard against microorganisms 'easily'. A war takes place within your body, leading to increased temperature, sweating, general ill-feeling etc. This is the immune response as your body battles to fight the invader. When the immune system is weakened the invading bug may increase in such numbers that the body is overwhelmed by its presence. It may be damaging in its growth to important bodily functions and death may result. The influenza virus for instance is very powerful in its action and kills many people every year. <<Viruses are not alien invaders, but are internally created waste products of cellular decay. Uneliminated, this proteinaceous waste pollutes the circulation and is mislabeled a " virus. " " page 249>> Well, without being rude, this statement is ridiculous, and has no scientific evidence to back it up. Viral structures are well known, both inside and outside the body. Their genetics have been studied in great detail, there is no question they are evolving entities that use an organisms cells as a means of replication. Viruses are often species and cell type specific, as many parasites are. Its a matter of personal opinion I guess as to whether one chooses to believe such a book or pure science. I have a scientific tertiary education in the biological sciences which with logical argument and practial assesment would deem most of the statements you refer to from the book as having no scientific evidence, and basically being nonsense. It always amazes me how people willingly accept computers, aeroplanes, drive their cars to work etc, all with great faith for the scientific driving force behind our modern life. But when it comes to biology, many people prefer to come up with totally illogical arguments to which there is simply no sustainable evidence. Why doesnt the science of life draw the respect of other scientific disciplines.....Are people not willing to accept the reality of life? I would have assumed the people on this forum would understand that we are made of what we eat. We eat quaility food, with good chemistry and this is incorporated into our bodies. <<It also gives an in-depth discussion proving that humans are natural frugivores.>> Humans are omnivores. We are quite capable of consuming meat and vegetation. I dont prefer to eat meat over vegetation, but I dont argue that our ancestors didnt eat meat, as we know they did. Since the advent of mans use of fire we know that humans began cooking their food. This meant changes in the gut, jaw and teeth primarily. Because we cooked our food, we have developed a set of teeth conditioned to chewing pre-prepared food. Analysis of teeth of ancient human remains tells us the secret of paleodiets. A reduction in thickness of enamel, shrinking of canine size and shortening of the gut all add up to omnivores that often cooked their food. It has to be remembered that much food was also eaten raw. Generally, meat was cooked in later stages of human histroy. So, I dont mean to be disrespectful, but I'll have to remain on the other side with respect to the virus argument. Interesting topic... Cheers Mark Newton rawfood, " Roger Haeske " <roger@s...> wrote: > What I've read so far from " Awakening Our Self-Healing Body, " by Arthur > Baker. > > Viruses are not living. Therefore, they cannot infect or attack cells. > The main danger of viruses is in them being toxic to cells. If you have > too many virus cells they will simply act as toxins. Apparently, viruses > may be nothing more than the remnants of old cells when they are broken > down by the body's lysosomes for elimination once the cell has died. > Sometimes, this breakdown of old cells is incomplete due to the highly > protective double-membrane sheath of these viruses. That supposedly is > how these viruses come about. > > Viruses don't have any metabolism, they can't eat or reproduce, > basically they are dead. I wonder how they were able to attribute so > many things to viruses like attacking and ambushing cells if they aren't > even alive? cHe > supposedly explains that in the next chapter. > > The reading was very technical and hard for me to discuss here in this > group with many big words that I don't feel like trying to define. > > " The popular idea that dead organic matter (viruses) can kill off our > natural defenses (white blood cells) is nonsense, as these easily guard > our blood and fluids from even LIVING yeast and bacterial organisms. " > > " Dead organic material floating in our circulation are readily > apprehended, engulfed, digested, and recycled via enzymatic action. > Viruses are not alien invaders, but are internally created waste > products of cellular decay. Uneliminated, this proteinaceous waste > pollutes the circulation and is mislabeled a " virus. " " page 249 > > It appears that the eating of bodily wastes is explained more in another > chapter of the book. That is attributed to bacteria but not to viruses > that have no life. Arthur Baker appears to believe that viruses do not > infect us but that when we get sick our body is trying to get rid of > toxic substances and has nothing to do with a deadly living virus. Very > interesting. > > I highly recommend this book to people. c > > I wonder what you think about all this Mark? It would probably be better > for you to read directly what he had to say than through my post, as > there was much more material than what I put up. He says that there is > some disagreement between the medical profession and microbiologists. > > I'll post more later. > > Roger Haeske > > > P.S. Get a Free 6 Step Technique to Transition to a Raw Diet, go to > http://superbeing.com/awesometechnique.htm > > > > Roger Haeske [roger@s...] > Saturday, May 18, 2002 8:12 PM > rawfood > RE: [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. > > Great post Mark, > > I'll have to check in on one of my books called " Awakening Our > Self-Healing Body " , by Arthur M. Baker. Actually he is or was a member > of this group. His screen name has satsang in it. > > In his book he explains many things in depth regarding viruses and germ > theory etc. When I was reading the book I was amazed that scientists > aren't really sure what a virus is and they don't even think it is > living. That doesn't seem to make any sense to me, at least on an > intuitive level. > > Anyway, in his book I believe he supports ideas similar to what I have > mentioned. Therefore, I want to see what someone who better understands > viruses and bacteria than I, has to say about it. Of course, his > viewpoint is skewed towards the Natural Hygiene viewpoint. It will be > interesting reading. I'll post the highlights for further discussion. > > I am thoroughly enjoying adding more garlic to my diet. For me this > isn't a problem since I make raw foods in which the raw garlic just adds > to the flavor. I may end up eating seven cloves today. Though I don't > think I'll really be tested until the fall when flu season hits. I > usually don't get sick in the spring or summer. > > Is anyone else eating more garlic now? > > Roger Haeske > > P.S. Get a Free 6 Step Technique to Transition to a Raw Diet, go to > http://superbeing.com/awesometechnique.htm > > > > placebos4u [mark@t...] > Saturday, May 18, 2002 2:51 PM > rawfood > Re: [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. > > Hi Roger > > Thanks for the discussion. I have to have a different opinion as to > how and why viruses invade our bodies. I can't really come to terms > with this description..<<The belief is that if your body is > internally clean that viruses have nothing to feed on and therefore > you won't get sick.>> > > Viruses are parasites and require to use a host cell in order to > replicate. They dont carry the genetic machinery necessary for > replication. So viruses dont actually feed so to speak. In fact > viruses are often considered non-living. A particular virus has > chemical receptors on its surface which chemically bind to a specific > chemical on a cells surface. They lock together and the virus empties > its genetic contents into the host cell. The host cells machinery is > then converted to produce viral particles. There is no feeding as > such. > You can be perfectly healthy and still take viral particles on board > and have them begin replication. Viruses are a natural part of life > as are bacteria. The degree of illness will depend on the type of > virus and how effectively your immune system can deal with it. > > Choosing to eat raw food is a good way to make sure your body > receives lots of natural enzymes, proteins etc that ther body can > utilise in the fight against infection. Cooking denatures protein > chemical bonds leaving residual by products of those originally > present. > > Its interesting you mention the infected cut. I read an article > online somewhere, where a lady who already eats garlic regularly had > a bacterial infection in her thumb. She ate more garlic, hoping this > would help, but the infection remained. After two weeks without > improvement and still a sore thumb she decided to apply garlic > directly to the thumb. The next morning the swelling had reduced in > size by half and the infection was cleared up inside 3 days. No > prescribed antibiotics...but rather natural antibiotics. > > > Interesting stuff > Cheers > Mark > > rawfood, " Roger Haeske " <roger@s...> wrote: > > Nice post Mark. Your post had better information than all the sites > and > > books I was reading on Garlic last night and this morning. The info > was > > good because it was combined with your experience. > > > > As far as the colds theory, it is a common theory in the raw foods > > movement. The belief is that if your body is internally clean that > > viruses have nothing to feed on and therefore you won't get sick. > Look > > into the Arnold Ehret books the " Mucousless Diet Healing System " . > He > > blames mucous as a major culprit in causing disease, colds etc. His > book > > is from near the turn of the century and so it has lots of very old > > data. Viruses supposedly feed off of the junk and mucous that is > inside > > our bodies, left over by poor eating habits and who knows what > else. > > > > Of course, I am aware of the more accepted reasons for colds. But > then > > again I am a raw foodist and I have seen the amazing benefits of > the raw > > diet. A while back I cut my hand very badly and needed 18 stitches. > The > > doctors prescribed some kind of antibiotic to fight infection. I > never > > took any and had no infection problems. I also removed the stitches > > myself saving myself at least two extra expensive doctor visits. > > > > Do you know for a 1.5 hour procedure in the hospital emergency room > I > > was billed $1,000 US. I think that was totally ludicrous. Now my > father > > tells me I didn't even need to get stitches. In the old days, he > said > > people wouldn't get stitches; they just deal with the problem on > their > > own. What he means by old days was when he was a child in the 40's > and > > 50's. > > > > I learned many years ago on my first attempts at the raw diet that > > infections clear up on while going raw. I had previous experience > not to > > worry about infections. Now I can also supplement my diet with more > > garlic to fight in those regards. Many people in the Natural Hygiene > > Movement are against eating any kind of spicy food including garlic. > > They feel these spicy and hot foods irritate our bodies and are > > basically not good for the body. > > > > I just happen to love hot and spicy food so I haven't dropped that > habit > > as of yet. There may be good reasons to continue along these lines. > Then > > you have the people like David Wolfe who recommends spicy foods to > > improve the health. The best method is trial and error. > > > > I know as a young child I hated hot foods. If I hated it then maybe > it > > is not natural for people to eat it. Then again, God put all these > > wonderful herbs down here on our planet and maybe they are here to > help > > us heal. There are many questions to be asked and answered. > > > > I read somewhere that it is estimated that garlic has about 1% of > the > > antibiotic power of penicillin. I had about 6 cloves yesterday. I > had a > > little garlic breath this morning, but nothing major. > > > > Thanks again for your posts Mark. > > > > Roger Haeske > > > > P.S. Would you like to Discover the Easiest and Most Powerful Peak > > Performance Program on the planet? This program will quickly > improve all > > areas of your life, is customized to your personality and > circumstances, > > and effortlessly overcomes previous negative beliefs and > conditioning. > > Go to http://www.superbeing.com/magicquestions.htm for your free > report. > > > > placebos4u [mark@t...] > > Saturday, May 18, 2002 5:24 AM > > rawfood > > Re: [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. > > > > Hi Roger > > > > I must say I have never heard of a cold described as you have > > described it..<<Now I've heard that getting a cold is actually just > a > > detoxification of the body mostly a house cleaning.>> > > > > According to what I was taught at university during my biological > > sciences degree a cold is an infection caused by a virus, and most > > commonly from the group called Rhinoviridae. Most of the symptoms > of > > the cold are due to your own immune system responding to the > > invasion. The greater the numbers of viruses the harder the immune > > system works, making you feel very ill. Following this a secondary > > infection of the bacterial sort often occurs. This results as your > > immune system is working so hard making antibodies against the > virus > > that bacteria can reproduce more successfully. Damaging toxic > > compounds are produced by bacteria, so you dont want this. > > As far as I'm aware I still do get the viral infection but my > immune > > system is capable of knocking it on the head before the virus takes > > over and builds into great numbers. The reason for this is that the > > sulpher compounds contained in garlic penetrate well into the > bodies > > tissues and remain there. As garlic contains anti-fungal, anti- > viral, > > and anti-bacterial compounds any microorganisms invading the body > are > > killed off in the first instance by the sulpher compounds and then > > secondarily by your own immune system. This means your immune > system > > is still working and responding. Without your immune system > properly > > functioning the virus would eventually take over as the sulpher > > compounds will only slow the replication, not competely stop it. So > > this means that a regular garlic eater has a dual protection system > > to microorganism invasion. This is why I can feel the cold coming > on, > > but it never gets anywhere. > > > > According to research I have read raw garlic has a multitude of > > health benefits. Population research shows major reductions in > > various cancers of garlic eaters. This is especially true of > stomach > > and intestinal cancers. Blood is thinned by garlic, supposedly > making > > the blood less viscous and allowing more easy passage through > > vessels. This means reduced chance of stroke, heart attack etc. > > The smell associated with garlic comes from Allicin, which is a > very > > strong antibiotic, capable of killing Anthrax as far as I'm aware. > > This antibiotic is formed after cutting the garlic when allinase > > reacts with allian (spelling?), to produce the sulpher based > > antibiotic. Sulper compounds often smell...recall rotten egg gas at > > school. Or digging into the dark mud on a flat beach with little > > tidal movement. Anaerobic bacteria often produce sulpher products > > from metabolism. > > > > I recently read in a scientific magazine that the Swedish army > > conducted a test on their soldiers using garlic. The soldiers were > > becoming ill as a result of tick bites. Soldiers placed on a > regular > > garlic diet were not being infected by ticks and not becoming ill. > > Vets also tell dog owners to feed it to their dogs to stop fleas, > and > > according to a friend of mine it works, not too surprising though. > > > > There is no doubt your raw food diet will give you much greater > > health benefit and protection than cooked or processed food. Keep > up > > the garlic, it wont kill you. :-) > > > > Cheers > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In rawfood, " Roger Haeske " <roger@s...> wrote: > > > Interesting post Mark. I've been on the all raw food diet for > about > > 9 > > > months now. I have had a couple of colds in the wintertime. I > have > > been > > > eating lots of raw garlic though not quite as much as you. There > are > > > days that I have around five cloves but not necessarily every > day. > > > > > > Now I've heard that getting a cold is actually just a > > detoxification of > > > the body mostly a house cleaning. In addition, it is possible > that > > not > > > getting a cold is a bad sign. When the body is too weak it will > not > > have > > > enough elimination strength to give you a cold. I've read a story > > or two > > > of people never getting sick and thinking they are healthy and > then > > find > > > one day that they have Cancer. > > > > > > I of course would prefer never to get a cold. I have heard of one > > long > > > time raw foodist who hasn't had a cold in 8 years. I know my > colds > > have > > > been much shorter and less intense so far on the all raw diet. > I'll > > see > > > what happens in a year or two of doing it, once my body has > > detoxified > > > much more. > > > > > > But I'll try having lots of garlic every single day and see if I > > notice > > > any changes. I probably average around 3 cloves per day as we > > speak. By > > > the way it doesn't make me smell. I blend it in to a dish I am > > > preparing. I somehow think that being raw affects this smell > aspect > > of > > > the garlic. > > > > > > I used to take garlic pearls many years ago and I would sometimes > > sweat > > > garlic. I don't have any problems like that with raw garlic. > > > > > > Roger Haeske > > > P.S. Would you like to Discover the Easiest and Most Powerful Peak > > > Performance Program on the planet? This program will quickly > > improve all > > > areas of your life, is customized to your personality and > > circumstances, > > > and effortlessly overcomes previous negative beliefs and > > conditioning. > > > Go to http://www.superbeing.com/magicquestions.htm for your free > > report. > > > > > > placebos4u [mark@t...] > > > Friday, May 17, 2002 4:43 PM > > > rawfood > > > [Raw Food] Advocate of the stinky bulb. > > > > > > > > > Hi folks. > > > I have decided to write this to tell people of the amazing change > > > regular raw garlic consumption has made to my life. I have no > idea > > if > > > the same results would take place in all people. > > > > > > About 5 years ago I was fed up with catching colds that would > turn > > > into nasty viral/bacterial illnesses, making me cough > > uncontrollably > > > until incredibly sore. Muscles would ache, body would feel > shocking > > > and this would drag on for nearly 2 weeks at times. I worked > around > > > the public 7 days a week, and I guess was always exposed to germs. > > > I had read or heard somewhere that garlic was supposed to help in > > > dealing with infections. I was not one for taking a lot of notice > > > about these kinds of things. My diet at the time was reasonably > > > healthy, but still the colds would develop, along with gastro > > > sicknesses at times too. > > > I hopped onto the internet and searched for garlic links. I was > > > surprised to read pages that everyday people like myself had > posted > > > explaining how garlic had incredibly changed their health status. > > > That was it for me, I had to set the trial into action. > > > Well, the trial has never ended. For five years I have consumed > on > > > average 4-5 raw cloves of garlic a day. There have been some days > > > where I have not eaten it but these are rare. I eat it at tea > time > > > along with the rest of the family. We have all benefited greatly. > > If > > > one chooses to eat garlic at meal time, then its best that all do > > for > > > obvious reasons, unless you can tolerate the smell. By the next > > > morning the smell after a shower has gone, in us anyway. It may > > > become noticed if you sweat a lot or possibly have oily skin. > > > > > > As far as I'm concerned the health benefits far outweigh the > smell > > > which can result. > > > > > > After starting my garlic consumption, which I hated, because I > > > couldnt stand it raw I have not had a single illness of any sort. > I > > > have experienced the feeling of an oncoming infection, but thats > > all > > > I experience. I feel a little bit tired and down for a few hours, > > > although not to the point where I cant work. Basically I may have > > one > > > slightly run down day, where I feel a bit tired and odd. These > are > > > very rare, and occur 2-3 times a year, generally when the kids > > catch > > > a cold, which quickly clears up in them. Its as thought the cold > > > passes through me and is gone before it develops into anything. > > > I dont catch any colds, nor do I get any kind of gastric problems. > > > I used to experience Tinea also during the summer, and I no > longer > > > get that. I used to do regular trips to the dentist, and have > > > fillings. I no longer get any tooth decay at all. I am slightly > > > overweight, and checkups at the doctor reveal excellent blood > > > pressure and no cholesterol problems. The doctor is amazed that I > > > dont have blood pressure considering I have a fairly physically > > > inactive job, and dont get involved in sport. > > > > > > I have virtually forgotten what it is like to get sick. Garlic is > > an > > > absolutely amazing plant, that may reduce or eliminate so many > > health > > > problems in people if only they could overcome the smell stigma! > > Just > > > dont eat it before socialising is the way I look at it. Its rare > > that > > > people say they can smell it on me. Anyway who cares when life > can > > be > > > illness free. Stink and ENJOY! :-) > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2002 Report Share Posted May 19, 2002 Hi Mark, Great post again. You really go into detail. I must admit I cannot compete with you from the biological sciences point of view. I am not trained in this manner. The person to really debate you with some intelligence is the author Arthur M. Baker. I don't think he has time to do that stuff. But maybe he would, it would be an interesting discussion. You brought up many good points. Other points seem to me more like the disagreement between people of different political philosophies. In other words people having different opinions and interpreting facts in different ways. I must say we could literally go on for days in this friendly debate. For I have more information to counter your arguments and yet I'm sure you would have more to back up your opinions. In the process others and myself would be better educated I'm sure, as they already have been. Much of what was argued in the book was based on Koch's Four Postulates. I know some scientists dismiss these postulates but they seem to make sense to me in deciding whether or not a virus or bacteria actually causes a specific disease. Robert Koch's Four Postulates: For a specific bacteria to be the cause of a disease, these things must occur. 1. It must be found in every case of that disease: 2. It must not be found when the disease is not present 3. It must be capable of living outside the tissues; and 4. It must then be capable of re-introduction into the organism and produce that disease. Example after example is given prove these points. Including studies where test subjects where given specific bacteria in their food and drink. They were exposed to meningitis, typhoid, diphtheria, pneumonia, and tuberculosis. None of the test subjects apparently got sick at all. How about this, in 28-40% of diphtheria cases, the so-called causative bacteria, diphtheria bacillus is absent. Bacteria are also routinely found in animals and humans who exhibit No symptoms of any disease. As far as your references to AIDS. Again I don't think I can argue directly against you. However I have read a book, attended lectures, read websites that say the AIDS virus does not cause AIDS. This information comes from people who used to do government funded research for the study on AIDS. There are literally hundreds of doctors and scientists who don't believe that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus. The book I read was " Why We Will Never Win The War on AIDS " , by Peter H. Duesberg. I think I have a website on file that has loads of free information on this topic. http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/index.htm I suppose you and I are in different camps when it comes to the disease and virus issues. Though I certainly have an open mind, though I do tend to lean a certain way. Apparently even Pasteur realized his germ theory of disease causation had flaws near the end of his life. From page 217 and 218 of " Awakening Our Self-Healing Body " . " Around 1880, Pasteur himself admitted his mistake. According to Dr. Duclaux (one of Pasteur's co-workers), Pasteur discovered that microbial species can undergo many transformations. These facts were not consistent with his germ theory and destroyed its very basis. It is frequently overlooked that around 1880, Pasteur changed his theory. According to Dr. Duclaux, Pasteur stated that germs were ordinarily kept within bounds by natural laws but when conditions change, when its virulence is exalted, when its host is enfeebled, the germ is able to invade the territory which was previously barred to it. " This is the premise that a healthy body is resistant and not susceptible to disease. " You may counter with the idea that the immune system is protecting us those times when the bacteria is in us and we still don't get the disease. Again, the whole concept of the immune system may even be a false one as is currently understood by many doctors and scientists. I learned about this in a lecture by Dr. Douglas Graham. Unfortunately I forgot all the details. But it just goes to show you that they are many possible answers to problems and many theories that could replace germ theory. Dr. Graham also explained his point of view on AIDS again with a similar result that it is not caused by a virus but instead by poor health habits. I wish I had the specific knowledge that these people have to give you a better debate. Maybe someone will join this discussion who is more knowledgeable on this topic than I am. For the time being I believe that if the body is clean on the inside it is unlikely the person will get sick, regardless of how many people he comes in contact with that are suffering with the flu. There have been plenty of times in my life that I've gone into a house with a whole family that had the flu and I even shaked hands with some of the people in the house and yet I did not catch the flu. I'm sure other people have experienced the same thing. I'll tell you something else of interest. In these past nine months of being on the all raw diet I did get sick a couple of times. One time was right after I got my stitches in the hospital. Unfortunately, I did allow them to inject me with Novocain. I also allowed them to give me a tetanus shot. I should have refused it but I was in a weakened state and a bit in shock at the time. (It's about 6 months later and the swelling in my finger has still not totally gone down.) Anyway the following day I got a cold. Personally I think it was my body trying to eliminate the alien matter that was just recently injected into it. On an another occasion I ate a cooked meal with a friend to celebrate his birthday. (In the last 9 months I had about 4 cooked meals. But none at all in the last 4 months.) The following day or the day after I got another cold. I know this doesn't prove my theory but it makes me very suspicious. This has happened to me other times in the past when I was doing 100% raw food experiments. So I have many of my own experiences to lead me to think in this particular manner. One other interesting point. No human could survive without bacteria inside of them. Bacteria help clean up our internal garbage that cannot be removed with other bodily functions. I wonder if taking too much garlic could end up killing the so-called good bacteria that we need for our survival. As far as I'm concerned this is all a very interesting topic. For I do want to get to the point either with garlic or raw food or some other way that I don't get sick again. Who needs to waste their time being sick in bed. By taking the garlic as a curative measure, I am somewhat more in your camp Mark. So as you see my mind is not totally made up. I'll see what happens over the coming years. Roger Haeske P.S. Would you like to Discover the Easiest and Most Powerful Peak Performance Program on the planet? This program will quickly improve all areas of your life, is customized to your personality and circumstances, and effortlessly overcomes previous negative beliefs and conditioning. Go to http://www.superbeing.com/magicquestions.htm for your free report. placebos4u [mark] Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:03 PM rawfood [Raw Food] Re: Viruses are not alive, nor contagious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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