T4 Ethics

[Guest guest]

Rick et al,

 

What's been done with the T4 case is quite simple. As long as the people

committing the crime get to decide what happens to the loot, this story will

continue, maybe not with gorillas, but with dolphins, birds, monkeys, etc.

 

I was incorrectly under the assumption CITES was supposed to *stop* the illegal

trade in endangered species. Turns out, it's just supposed to " regulate " it. My

mistake.

 

I was incorrectly under the assumption WAZA was supposed to not deal with

criminals like Taiping, yet Pretoria Zoo, a WAZA member whose director is a

former WAZA director himself, has publicly signed a bilateral agreement to work

with Taiping Zoo in the future, in exchange for the T4 gorillas.

 

So either Pretoria will have to reneg on its deal with Taiping *or* be

reprimanded for dealing with a criminal zoo. I'm not holding my breath for

either to happen.

 

When zoos compare themselves to sanctuaries in terms of financial back,

facilities, manpower, etc, they will always win. No one at WAZA seems to care

Cameroon has been insulted and the ban on exporting gorillas from the wild has

been circumvented very conveniently with no apparent laws (or ethics) being

broken. New gorilla genes have arrived and that's something the PR departments

will run with, as those of us arguing for these gorillas return home are

dismissed as " emotional " or unrealistic.

 

In the past when gorillas were confiscated, zoos were the only viable option.

Today that's not true, since PASA sanctuaries are out there, working with little

to no help from the zoo world, despite lip service. Some zoos are doing

wonderful insitu work, but at one recent talk by Dr. Tara Stoinski at Zoo

Atlanta, the actual number of zoos contributing to insitu conservation in any

meaningful way is appalling low - and if you take out one or two zoos who are

doing a lot to help, that number is even lower.

 

Pretoria Zoo is apparently setting up a " Gorilla Conservation Fund subject to

official audit and to scrutiny by CITES. This fund will be used to support

conservatoin projects in the gorilla range states of West and Central Africa. "

(source: WAZA website 17Jul03 Press Release with the incredibly arrogant title

" Zoos don't need gorillas, gorillas need zoos " ).

 

Any bets on how much money ever gets to real gorilla conservation?

 

Jane

-

stonehand00

gorillakeepers

Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:36 PM

Re: [gorillakeepers] T4 documents

 

 

" I've been receiving private emails from people in the legitimate zoo world,

expressing dismay and disgust at the light the entire zoo world has been

placed in by this case. I share their frustration, since this case is

not what good zoos with legitimate conservation goals and concerns stand

for. The fact Kevin Lazarus is still director of Taiping Zoo since no

Malaysian laws can touch him, is as difficult to understand as Pretoria

Zoo's agreement to have " bilateral cooperation " with Taiping, in exchange

for these gorillas. "

 

As long as gorillas are a source, or partial source, of income and a way to

stroke egos of certain people then corruption and/or mistreatment will

continue. How many times have you seen or heard of keepers having a very close

relationship with a gorilla, some giving several years of their life dedicated

to the

well being of the gorilla(s), then allowed minimal or no input on what's best

for the gorilla(s) when important decisions need to be made. I've witnessed

great management that doesn't operate this way. And I've witnessed completely

incompetent management making decisions that negatively affect the gorilla(s).

All because they can't admit to being wrong (or just don't care). Does anyone

honestly believe those involved in the T4 case have ever cared for a gorilla

like I know many of you do? Not a chance!

 

Anyone who truly cares for the well being and dignity of a gorilla knows

it's;

 

The wild first and foremost

 

Home country sanctuary second

 

And NEVER from the wild to a zoo!

 

How WAZA stands behind this decision shows, in my opinion, a contemptible

lack of courage.

 

Maybe some people who care for gorillas just won’t say it publicly but

gorillas do not belong in captivity for public viewing.

 

A majority of zoo gorillas were born in captivity. That would mean in short

years to come that no wild-born gorilla would be in a zoo. Now, with the T4

gorillas the whole process has started over.

 

I'm grateful to those who have really put in an effort to expose this crime

and put pressure on WAZA, CITES, Pretoria and Taiping. If all of us on this

list (all right, most) do not condone the T4 gorillas being placed in Pretoria

then why don't we ban together attaching our names to a letter? I've sent

letters, but I'm just one obscure person that gives a damn.

 

Jane, I know you articulately stated (and stayed focused on the facts) the T4

gorilla issue but I have these things build up until I have to let them out!

My constant concern is the longer the gorillas stay at Pretoria the more

likely it will be used against them going back home -- " the gorillas are

adjusting fine " -- things like that. Rick

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

NachrichtThanks for sharing, Peter.

 

>>I do not doubt that you will respond to this, because you know everything

better and must always have the last word.<<

 

My intent has never been to propagate nonsense or to upset people, but I also

don't buy into some of the theories being set forth to try to justify the T4

gorillas going to Pretoria and I'm not about to stay quiet. I do, however,

sincerely appreciate the time and effort you've taken on this and would prefer

this not to be an adversarial relationship, but one where we try to understand

each other's very-obviously-very-different points of view.

 

>>Willie Labuschagne is not a former Director of WAZA<<

 

Sorry, I guess the term is former " president " of WAZA. Those minor details get

lost on me... Same thing with your assertion no Brasil zoo asked for the T4

gorillas ... I guess *you* weren't aware of it, but that doesn't mean I'm

propagating " trash " , since my sources are the same sources that exposed this

crime in the first place, so I'm fairly confident in them.

 

>>There was no bilateral agreement between Pretoria and Taiping, and the

agreement on technical cooperation signed with the Malaysian Department of

Wildlife and National Parks does, to the best of my knowledge, not implicate a

cooperation with Taiping, which does not belong to the department but is a is a

municipality run zoo.<<

 

This is the first clarification of this I've ever heard ... thanks for sharing

it.

 

>>Maybe I missed something but I am not aware of the fact that Cameroon has

proven to be the country of origin<<

 

Well, South Africa certainly isn't the country of origin either, and the

criminals in Nigeria confessed to stealing the gorillas from Cameroon, although

some might want to nit-pick on details to try to delay or confuse the issue.

 

 

from www.waza.org

First WAZA Director

1. October 2001

 

The President of the World Association of Zoos and Aquariums (WAZA), Mr. Willie

Labuschagne, has announced the appointment of the first full-time Director of

the Association. The incumbent Director is Dr Peter Dollinger of Berne,

Switzerland, and will take office on 1 October 2001. " We are proud to have Dr

Dollinger as the new Director and it is the belief of the WAZA that he fulfils

both the mission and vision of the Association and will be a valuable asset in

the attainment of our goals " , says Mr. Labuschagne. Dr Dollinger is a 57-year

old native of Switzerland and holds a Dr. med. vet. degree. He is married and

has two grown-up children. He has extensively represented both his country and

his office, the Swiss Federal Veterinary Office, on numerous international

occasions. Dr. Dollinger is a linguist of note and is fluent in Swiss-German,

German, French, English and Swedish, and has a knowledge of Italian and Spanish.

Mr. Labuschagne adds that Dr. Dollinger is a cosmopolitan man who will gain the

respect of the various different countries comprising the WAZA. " The new will be the voice of the Association and furthermore represent the WAZA

whenever possible. " The full-time Secretariat will also be under the auspices of

Dr. Dollinger and will be based in Berne, Switzerland. The WAZA is a prestigious

international association representing world-class zoological and aquatic

facilities, with more than 200 member institutions and 15 regional associations

represented. Membership is by invitation only.

 

Jane Dewar

 

-

WAZA Director

'Jane T. R. Dewar'

Cc: gorillakeepers ; stonehand00

Friday, May 14, 2004 10:45 AM

AW: T4 Ethics

 

 

Jane,

 

I repeatedly said that I would no longer answer to the nonsense you mail

around but it is really hard not to do so, because the only thing you achieve by

disseminating such trash is that you confuse and upset people on both sides,

which definitely is not helpful.

 

" What's been done with the T4 case is quite simple. As long as the people

committing the crime get to decide what happens to the loot, this story will

continue, maybe not with gorillas, but with dolphins, birds, monkeys, etc. "

 

As a matter of fact, the people who committed the crime were the poachers and

smugglers in the range state, Ibadan Zoo, Nigerian Officials and Taiping Zoo

(although what Taiping did is not a 'crime' in the terms of the Malaysian

legislation). Those who decided were the CITES Management Authority of

Peninsular Malaysia.

 

" I was incorrectly under the assumption CITES was supposed to *stop* the

illegal trade in endangered species. Turns out, it's just supposed to " regulate "

it. My mistake. "

 

I told you repeatedly that it might be a good idea if you were to read the

text of the Convention. Article VIII of the Convention clearly says what Parties

have to do in order to enforce the provisions of the convention and to prohibit

trade in violation thereof. The fact that Malaysia possibly did not enough to

comply with Article VIII is not the fault of the Convention and may be an issue

to be looked at in Standing Committee. One should be cautious however in

criticizing the Malaysian government without knowing in detail within which

legal national prerogatives they have to work. But of course you prefer not to

take note of international treaties or constitutional constraints and to

promulgate your own views of how the world should be run.

 

" I was incorrectly under the assumption WAZA was supposed to not deal with

criminals like Taiping, yet Pretoria Zoo, a WAZA member whose director is a

former WAZA director himself, has publicly signed a bilateral agreement to work

with Taiping Zoo in the future, in exchange for the T4 gorillas. So either

Pretoria will have to reneg on its deal with Taiping *or* be reprimanded for

dealing with a criminal zoo. I'm not holding my breath for either to happen. "

 

WAZA does not deal with Taiping Zoo. The Zoo was deleted from the list of

candidates for WAZA Membership. Willie Labuschagne is not a former Director of

WAZA. There was no bilateral agreement between Pretoria and Taiping, and the

agreement on technical cooperation signed with the Malaysian Department of

Wildlife and National Parks does, to the best of my knowledge, not implicate a

cooperation with Taiping, which does not belong to the department but is a is a

municipality run zoo.

 

" When zoos compare themselves to sanctuaries in terms of financial back,

facilities, manpower, etc, they will always win. "

 

In a first place WAZA did not have the slightest intention of comparing zoos

with sanctuaries . We also had not the idea of " winning " anything. It was you

who brought this bullshit up and when it was on the table we were looking into a

win-win situation which would encompass sanctuaries as well.

 

" No one at WAZA seems to care Cameroon has been insulted and the ban on

exporting gorillas from the wild has been circumvented very conveniently with no

apparent laws (or ethics) being broken. New gorilla genes have arrived and

that's something the PR departments will run with, as those of us arguing for

these gorillas return home are dismissed as " emotional " or unrealistic. "

 

Maybe I missed something but I am not aware of the fact that Cameroon has

proven to be the country of origin.

 

" In the past when gorillas were confiscated, zoos were the only viable option.

Today that's not true, since PASA sanctuaries are out there, working with little

to no help from the zoo world, despite lip service. "

 

If technical and scientific advice is lip service, then the zoo community

certainly gives lip service to PASA Sanctuaries.

 

It is my understanding, however, that the Chimpanzee Sanctuaries Workshop held

in the year 2000 in Entebbe, which led to the establishment of PASA, and the

subsequent PASA Workshops were made possible thanks to financial contributions

from a.o. the zoo community, including the American Association of Zoo Keepers,

Bristol Zoo, Cleveland Zoo, Columbus Zoo, Copenhagen Zoo, Disney's Wild Animals

Kingdom, Fort Worth Zoo, Honolulu Zoo, Johannesburg Zoo, Knoxville Zoo, Oakland

Zoo, San Diego Zoo, Sedgvwick County Zoo, Tulsa Zoo and maybe others. The 2000

Workshop was facilitated by CBSG, an organisation essentially funded by zoos and

zoo associations, including WAZA - they received 23'800 CHF (approximately

15'000 USD) in the year the workshop was held. As far as I know Limbe receives

regularly financial support from zoos (Columbus Zoo, Los Angeles Zoo, Oakland

Zoo ... ). Calgary Zoo contributed to the redevelopment of Tchimpounga

Chimpanzee Sanctuary, near Point Noir (Congo), Bristol Zoo and Oakland Zoo

support the Cameroon Wildlife Aid Fund that runs Mvog-Betsi Zoo at Yaounde and

Mefou NP. Oakland Zoo supports also the Tchimpounga Chimpanzee Sanctuary, Ngamba

Island Sanctuary and Tacugama Chimpanzee Sanctuary. On the initiative of

Heidelberg Zoo, nine European zoos have formed WAPCA - The West African Primate

Conservation Acton, with the goal of enhancing primate conservation in the

Upper Guinean Forest. On of the projects of WAPCA is to improve the husbandry

conditions of primates at Accra Zoo, which acts, similarly to the Limbe

Botanical and Zoological Garden, as a rescue centre or sanctuary for

confiscated primates. This project was supported by 10'000 Swiss Francs (8'000

USD) from the 2003 WAZA Budget. Finally, PAAZAB has initiated under the name

'WOZA AFRICA' a project to improve the conditions of zoos and sancuaries north

of the Zambezi.

 

" Some zoos are doing wonderful insitu work, but at one recent talk by Dr.

Tara Stoinski at Zoo Atlanta, the actual number of zoos contributing to insitu

conservation in any meaningful way is appalling low - . "

 

Regrettably, our global in situ conservation data base is not yet available,

which doesn't allow me to give any comprehensive figures. However, by a short

look into the 178 pages AZA Annual Report on Conservation and Science

(1999/2000) I found the following gorilla / chimp related projects: Baltimore

Zoo and Cincinnati Zoo supported a Mountain Gorilla Veterinary Project which

lasted several years. Calgary Zoo provided (through the Dian Fossey Gorilla

Fund International) financial support to assist in protecting the remaining wild

gorilla population in Rwanda. Cleveland Zoo funded a project for assessing and

treating parasite loads in the indigenous people living in proximity to lowland

gorillas and chimpanzees, thus reducing the health risks to these apes, in the

Central Africa Republic. Columbus Zoo made annual financial contributions to the

Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund. Denver Zoo made a donation towards a Mountain gorillas

PHVA in Rwanda under the WCS' (Bronx Zoo 's ) Africa Programme, and so on - I

didn't check the zoos from E to Z. In Europe, 150 zoos participated in the EAZA

Bushmeat Campaign and jointly collected 1.9 million signatures for a petition

submitted to the EU Commission, EU Parliament and African leaders, and, as a

by-product, collected also the equivalent of about 150'000 USD. The funds raised

through these efforts will be disbursed to PASA, research efforts in the Dja

Faunal Reserve in Cameroon and other projects focused on great apes in the wild.

Leipzig Zoo supports the Wild Chimpanzee Foundation on an ongoing basis, the

Frankfurt Zoological Society has been active in the Virungas for many years,

spending e.g. in 2002 the equivalent of 90'000 USD Bristol Zoo and the NY

Wildlife Conservation Society are among the GRASP Partners, and so on.

 

 

" and if you take out one or two zoos who are doing a lot to help, that number

is even lower "

 

I agree to this statement and admire your arithmetic abilities, x-2 is in fact

less than x.

 

" Pretoria Zoo is apparently setting up a " Gorilla Conservation Fund subject

to official audit and to scrutiny by CITES. This fund will be used to support

conservatoin projects in the gorilla range states of West and Central Africa. "

(source: WAZA website 17Jul03 Press Release with the incredibly arrogant title

" Zoos don't need gorillas, gorillas need zoos " ). "

 

There are obviously different views on either side of the Atlantic about what

constitutes arrogance.

 

I do not doubt that you will respond to this, because you know everything

better and must always have the last word.

 

WAZA - The World Association of Zoos and Aquariums

The Executive Director

Peter Dollinger

Phone: ++41-31-300 20 30

Fax: ++ 41-31-300 20 31

Post address: P.O.Box 23, CH-3097 Liebefeld-Berne

Visitors' address: Lindenrain 3, CH-3012 Berne