Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Since sending this so-far-unanswered email to the director of WAZA, I have received copies of internal documents from Malaysia, including copies of faxes sent by John Sellar (CITES head enforcement officer) ... It seems from Day 1, WAZA was the source for advising CITES Malaysia, etc, of where the gorillas should end up (see Fax 02Jul02 from CITES, quoted below). WAZA apparently never considered a sanctuary or return to the gorillas' homeland an option, so the notion of WAZA having no influence is dubious at best. Also, it seems when protests about sending the gorillas to Pretoria were getting louder, CITES's own South Africa rep, Sonja Meintjes, who may or may not have been aware of the original passage of the 4 gorillas thru her territory, apparently urged her Malaysian counterparts to send the gorillas to South Africa (see note 23Jan04 below), thereby calling into question CITES' so-called " neutral " role in this process as well. Sadly, no one in CITES or WAZA was supporting Cameroon's rights, and you can see in the snippets of these documents quoted below that Malaysia acknowledges knowing about Cameroon's desire for the return of their heritage, however this desire was never taken seriously, since the " fix " was in from the start, that Pretoria would end up with these gorillas. The fact that Malaysia and South Africa went to such herculean efforts to hide the transport of the gorillas in stealth and secrecy of a spy movie, shows they're not able to justify their actions, and they're now using " we're saving the species " as their battle cry for keeping these gorillas in the captive population. No one is buying this, however, and the world is still watching with amazement as this crime attempts to be re-written into history as " saving " these gorillas. I've been receiving private emails from people in the legitimate zoo world, expressing dismay and disgust at the light the entire zoo world has been placed in by this case. I share their frustration, since this case is not what good zoos with legitimate conservation goals and concerns stand for. The fact Kevin Lazarus is still director of Taiping Zoo since no Malaysian laws can touch him, is as difficult to understand as Pretoria Zoo's agreement to have " bilateral cooperation " with Taiping, in exchange for these gorillas. Read quotes from these documents and decide for yourself. In a fax 02Jul02 to the CITES Management Authority of Malaysia, John Sellar closes by saying: " If you wish assistance regarding the disposal of the gorillas, the World Association of Zoos and Aquariums has contacted us and offer to provide advice. It aparently knows of a facility in Africa that would be able to provide long-term accommodation in a suitable environment. The Association's Director can be contact at: waza.director.blulewin.ch " Also note the comment below about the Brasilian zoo's request for the T4 gorillas, sent to Malaysian authorities, who may or may not have mentioned it to WAZA, since Mr. Dollinger claims to have no knowledge of this bit of what he called " nonsense " to my original post making this claim. In a chronological recap from Malaysia it's noted: " 29Oct02: Received an official application from National Zoological Garden of South Africa which expressed their interest to provide permanent accommodation to the 4 gorillas. " " 08Jan03 Received official application from Fundaco Zoo Botanica Del Belo Horizonte, Brazil to keep the 4 gorillas " " 10Feb03 Received letter from Dr. B.S. Ngubane, MP Minister of Minstry Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, Republic of South Africa - An Application to Provide Permanent Accommodation for the Taiping Four. " " 17Jun03 DWNP received letter from MOSTE on Cabinet decision on approval to send the gorillas to National Zoo of South Africa. NOTE: the grounds of the decision were: National Zoological Garden of South Africa has strong and sound financial status; ...is a member to the Conservation Breeding Specialist Group (CBSG) and is committed to co-operate in the breeding of the endangered speces such as gorillas....has suffcient facilities and credentials manpower. " " 31Jul03: Press released from Secretary General of CITES: The secretariat understands that Malaysia has decided that the animals should be transferred to the National Zoo of South Africa. The secretariat neither endorses nor questions this decision; it does, however, note that it complies with the guidance adopted by the Conference of the Parties. " " 29Aug03 DWNP recieved letter (fax) from the Minister, Minstry of Environment and Forested requesting gorillas to be sent to Limbe Wildlife Centre. Note: DWNP assumed the fax as a copy letter to the department. The letter was meant for Minister of Science Technology & Environment but wrongly addressed. The Minster .... never received the letter. Unfortunately, only recently DWNP noticed the mistake. " " 21Oct03: Discussion at department level between DWNP and National Zoological Gardens of South Africa delegates regarding the delivery plan of the gorillas ... " (Attended by Willie Labuschagne, director Pretoria Zoo). " 19Jan04: ...,,,Government of Cameroon had expressed its desire that gorillas should be sent to Cameroon, no response to the request. " " 23Jan04 Received fax from Ms. Sonja Meintjes, MA of South Africa (CITES SA) on her opinions with reference to the letter from CITES Secretariat dated 14Jan04. Alarmed at late stage, Secretariat is prompting Malaysia to review its response to send gorillas to South Africa. The Pretoria Zoo has already spent a considerable amount of money to upgrade its gorilla's enclosure. Referring to press statement by Secretariat CITES. " Jane Dewar - " Jane T. R. Dewar " <jdewar " primfocus " <primfocus; " Jill Gershen " <jgershen; <waza.director Cc: " Willem Wijnstekers CITES " <willem.wijnstekers; " CESD A " <cesdewar; " Willie Labuschagne Pretoria SA " <wlab; " Deon Hignett SA-T4 " <Dhignett; <gorillakeepers >; <alloprimate >; " Asian Animal Protection " <aapn > Sunday, May 09, 2004 4:15 PM [alloprimate] Re: New news on T4 > Hi Peter, > > I'll stand by my posting and thank you for your comment on the veracity of > some of my statements from your point of view. > > As for this being a waste of time, that's exactly what the head of Cites, > Mr. Wijnstekers, seems to think. I, on the other hand, believe it's only by > having open dialogues like this that we can get to the truth. > > When IPPL first brought up the fact that 4 baby gorillas were in Taiping and > they couldn't be legit, they were dismissed until they did all the work WAZA > and CITES should have done in the first place, and *proved* without any > doubt that the T4 gorillas were illegal. It's hardly any wonder some of us > don't trust the people in charge (fox in the henhouse syndrome), so while > it's understandable you'd be frustrated, please try to consider what we've > gone through as this crime unfolded. > > Hiding behind indignation or dismissing legitimate concerns as " nonsense " > doesn't answer questions I and many others still have about this case. Mr. > Wijnstekers tells us he doesn't have time to deal with this, yet I wonder > just who IS supposed to answer questions about the dubious practices of > those in CITES or WAZA or other agencies involved in this crime? > > As for Pretoria one day sending these gorillas to Taiping as a zoo exchange, > I wasn't sure of that, as I stated. However I am aware of many cases where > the SSP makes recommendations, but just like those CITES laws, those > recommendations aren't always followed, and there's no definite way to get a > zoo to comply, other than political pressure, which doesn't always work. > Talk of a " bilateral agreement " only make it seem more suspicious and so far > Mr. Labuschagne and others haven't clarified what this term really means now > and in the future. > > Bottom line, no one was recommending sending the gorillas back to Cameroon, > and WAZA and CITES were the two official agencies making recommendations.... > Is that at least a fair statement? And CITES in Malaysia got to make the > final decision, under pressure from their government to find a way to one > day get those gorillas back, so Pretoria seemed like a sure thing. > > I don't believe any of these emails would be so upsetting to you and others, > if we weren't getting close to something that's really bothering you, about > this case. It's clear it's a crime no one at WAZA or CITES wants to discuss, > yet Pretoria and WAZA will " win " by keeping those gorilla genes out of their > homeland and in the captive population, regardless of the repeated requests > by Cameroon to have them returned. > > It's really not my intention to upset you or anyone else, but when the > answers we're getting don't jive with the documentation we're seeing, it > makes me wonder and when I wonder, I ask questions. And I will continue to > ask questions until I get some answers which make sense. > > Pretoria keeping the T4 gorillas makes no sense to me and many others, who > will respectfully be sure this case stays in the forefront for years and > years to come. Some may be angry and disrespectful, but I will continue to > try to keep this dialogue going in a civil manner, until I have some answers > that make sense, and I appreciate your effort and time to help me in that > regard. > > Sincerely, > > Jane > > - > > <waza.director > " Jane T. R. Dewar " <jdewar; " Jill Gershen " > <jgershen; " primfocus " <primfocus > Cc: " Asian Animal Protection " <aapn >; > <alloprimate >; <gorillakeepers >; " Deon Hignett > SA-T4 " <Dhignett; " Willie Labuschagne Pretoria SA " > <wlab > Sunday, May 09, 2004 3:22 PM > RE: New news on T4 > > > > Jane, please refrain from circulating such nonsense. > > > > It is not correct that there's nothing to stop Pretoria from sending > offspring > > of the T4 gorillas to Taiping as a legit zoo animal exchange. WAZA has a > > policy on the acceptance of confiscated animals, but that was not what you > > asked for in the first place. > > > > It is not correct that Willie Labuschagne nominated me for WAZA. > > > > It is not correct that Belo Horizonte ever applied to WAZA for receiving > > the gorillas or that WAZA was aware of such an application addressed to > whomever. > > > > We made it also clear a long time ago, that it was not up to WAZA to > consider > > various options or to take a decision as to where the gorillas should go. > > We simply offered an option in case the gorillas would have to be > confiscated > > and could not be returned to their country of origin. > > > > WAZA never pretended that the gorillas would be sterilized or castrated. > > > > > > I must say I already regret that I responded to your earlier mails as it > > is really useless and a waste of time to get involved in such > correspondence. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Resending, reducing size, to get thru ... Jane - " Jane T. R. Dewar " <jdewar <alloprimate >; " primfocus " <primfocus; " Jill Gershen " <jgershen; " Peter Dollinger, Director WAZA " <waza.director Cc: " Willem Wijnstekers CITES " <willem.wijnstekers; " CESD A " <cesdewar; " Willie Labuschagne Pretoria SA " <wlab; " Deon Hignett SA-T4 " <Dhignett; <gorillakeepers >; " Asian Animal Protection " <aapn >; " Shirley McGreal IPPL new " <smcgreal; " John Sellar CITES " <john.sellar Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:09 AM T4 documents > Since sending this so-far-unanswered email to the director of WAZA, I have > received copies of internal documents from Malaysia, including copies of > faxes sent by John Sellar (CITES head enforcement officer) ... > > It seems from Day 1, WAZA was the source for advising CITES Malaysia, etc, > of where the gorillas should end up (see Fax 02Jul02 from CITES, quoted > below). WAZA apparently never considered a sanctuary or return to the > gorillas' homeland an option, so the notion of WAZA having no influence is > dubious at best. > > Also, it seems when protests about sending the gorillas to Pretoria were > getting louder, CITES's own South Africa rep, Sonja Meintjes, who may or may > not have been aware of the original passage of the 4 gorillas thru her > territory, apparently urged her Malaysian counterparts to send the gorillas > to South Africa (see note 23Jan04 below), thereby calling into question > CITES' so-called " neutral " role in this process as well. > > Sadly, no one in CITES or WAZA was supporting Cameroon's rights, and you can > see in the snippets of these documents quoted below that Malaysia > acknowledges knowing about Cameroon's desire for the return of their > heritage, however this desire was never taken seriously, since the " fix " was > in from the start, that Pretoria would end up with these gorillas. > > The fact that Malaysia and South Africa went to such herculean efforts to > hide the transport of the gorillas in stealth and secrecy of a spy movie, > shows they're not able to justify their actions, and they're now using > " we're saving the species " as their battle cry for keeping these gorillas in > the captive population. No one is buying this, however, and the world is > still watching with amazement as this crime attempts to be re-written into > history as " saving " these gorillas. > > I've been receiving private emails from people in the legitimate zoo world, > expressing dismay and disgust at the light the entire zoo world has been > placed in by this case. I share their frustration, since this case is > not what good zoos with legitimate conservation goals and concerns stand > for. The fact Kevin Lazarus is still director of Taiping Zoo since no > Malaysian laws can touch him, is as difficult to understand as Pretoria > Zoo's agreement to have " bilateral cooperation " with Taiping, in exchange > for these gorillas. > > Read quotes from these documents and decide for yourself. > > In a fax 02Jul02 to the CITES Management Authority of Malaysia, John Sellar > closes by saying: > > " If you wish assistance regarding the disposal of the > gorillas, the World Association of Zoos and Aquariums has contacted us and > offer to provide advice. It aparently knows of a facility in Africa that > would be able to provide long-term accommodation in a suitable environment. > The Association's Director can be contact at: waza.director.blulewin.ch " > > Also note the comment below about the Brasilian zoo's request for the T4 > gorillas, sent to Malaysian authorities, who may or may not have mentioned > it to WAZA, since Mr. Dollinger claims to have no knowledge of this bit of > what he called " nonsense " to my original post making this claim. > > In a chronological recap from Malaysia it's noted: > > " 29Oct02: Received an official application from National Zoological Garden > of South Africa which expressed their interest to provide permanent > accommodation to the 4 gorillas. " > > " 08Jan03 Received official application from Fundaco Zoo Botanica Del Belo > Horizonte, Brazil to keep the 4 gorillas " > > " 10Feb03 Received letter from Dr. B.S. Ngubane, MP Minister of Minstry Arts, > Culture, Science and Technology, Republic of South Africa - An Application > to Provide Permanent Accommodation for the Taiping Four. " > > " 17Jun03 DWNP received letter from MOSTE on Cabinet decision on approval to > send the gorillas to National Zoo of South Africa. NOTE: the grounds of the > decision were: National Zoological Garden of South Africa has strong and > sound financial status; ...is a member to the Conservation Breeding > Specialist Group (CBSG) and is committed to co-operate in the breeding of > the endangered speces such as gorillas....has suffcient facilities and > credentials manpower. " > > " 31Jul03: Press released from Secretary General of CITES: The secretariat > understands that Malaysia has decided that the animals should be transferred > to the National Zoo of South Africa. The secretariat neither endorses nor > questions this decision; it does, however, note that it complies with the > guidance adopted by the Conference of the Parties. " > > " 29Aug03 DWNP recieved letter (fax) from the Minister, Minstry of > Environment and Forested requesting gorillas to be sent to Limbe Wildlife > Centre. Note: DWNP assumed the fax as a copy letter to the department. The > letter was meant for Minister of Science Technology & Environment but > wrongly addressed. The Minster .... never received the letter. > Unfortunately, only recently DWNP noticed the mistake. " > > " 21Oct03: Discussion at department level between DWNP and National > Zoological Gardens of South Africa delegates regarding the delivery plan of > the gorillas ... " (Attended by Willie Labuschagne, director Pretoria Zoo). > > " 19Jan04: ...,,,Government of Cameroon had expressed its desire that > gorillas should be sent to Cameroon, no response to the request. " > > " 23Jan04 Received fax from Ms. Sonja Meintjes, MA of South Africa (CITES SA) > on her opinions with reference to the letter from CITES Secretariat dated > 14Jan04. Alarmed at late stage, Secretariat is prompting Malaysia to review > its response to send gorillas to South Africa. The Pretoria Zoo has already > spent a considerable amount of money to upgrade its gorilla's enclosure. > Referring to press statement by Secretariat CITES. " > > Jane Dewar > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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