Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Gee, Hope, why don't you say what you *really* feel!? ;-) It's clear you're expressing feelings many of us outside the Big Boys Club are feeling, in that gorillas were slaughtered and now some in the zoo world are taking credit for saving them from extinction. There are powers in government and in the zoo world at work here, and it's clear they're helping each other more than helping any conservation efforts. The good guys in the zoo world are staying quiet, because you shouldn't criticize your friends, even when they're doing something wrong. OR they're thinking, how can some new genes added to the captive population hurt? But this silence only means the bad guys win and gorillas lose. And it's not just gorillas, although they're the big draw items the zoos want - remember the poor vervet South Africa refused to let back into its country? The bottom line is, it's now a matter of public relations. Pretoria is already touting themselves as the saviors of these gorillas, and we have to make sure that nonsense doesn't go unchallenged. Meanwhile, I'll keep asking why no criminal charges have been filed in Cites or in South Africa or in Malaysia? Could it be the criminals are the ones investigating the crimes? Jane - Hope Walker gorillakeepers Cc: marceil.yeater ; john.sellar ; jim.armstrong ; willem.wijnstekers ; cscholtz ; sharronh ; lydiao ; dhignett ; smeintjes ; cites.ukma ; managementauthority ; waza.director ; wlab Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:06 PM [gorillakeepers] WAZA Statement Re; Taiping Four Case Dear Dr. Dollinger et al; <<the Wildlife and National Parks Department for Peninsular Malaysia has decided to send four confiscated gorillas known as the “Taiping Four†to the National Zoological Gardens of South Africa. While certain interest groups challenge this decision, WAZA maintains that there was no better option.>> Yes. It's easier to label us " interest groups " rather than to own the fact that as early as January 2004 Cameroon was issuing statements about the demand for the return of the gorillas. <<The Wildlife and National Parks Department (Perhilitan) for Peninsular Malaysia has informed the World Association of Zoos and Aquariums (WAZA) and the National Zoo of South Africa that the Government of Malaysia has finally decided to send the confiscated gorillas known as the “Taiping Four†to the National Zoological Gardens of South Africa (Pretoria Zoo). This decision was made taking into account a recommendation by WAZA.>> Oh, I'm sorry. But does that actually say that WAZA got involved in a CITES matter? I must be confused. What in the world does WAZA have to do with the illegal trade in these gorillas? And wasn't WAZA one of the first " interest groups " to issue a statement against the ILLEGAL TRADE in these gorillas? And what in the hell is John Sellars, a British policeman, doing telling anyone what to do with gorillas? As far as I can see he has zero real-time experience with gorillas, so how on earth can he be responsible for deciding the final location? The convention states that these animals should be returned to the country of origin. It says nothing about allowing a former cop to decide what is best for them based upon a proposal submitted by a zoo (no mention of whether or not Limbe was allowed to submit a proposal, by the way) with a notorious history of dead gorillas. Let me guess, that's another little idea you fellas came up with. Anyone with a brain knows that Sellars made the amaeteurish decision to go with what looks sexy rather than with what works, is successful, and is already in place. Recent media reports indicate that Pretoria has updated their enclosures. So, the enclosures need an update when four new babies arrive, but they don't need it when a single gorilla is housed there? <<WAZA and its members are deeply committed to species conservation and animal welfare. WAZA’s Code of Ethics requires that obtaining animals from the wild should be reduced to a minimum, and that each importation must be in full compliance with the relevant national and international legislation. The two zoos involved in the illegal transfer from West Africa to Malaysia of the gorillas concerned are not members of WAZA.>> Oh, now I get it. You're against wild caught wildlife unless it suits your interests. And since one of your member zoos was without gorillas and had watched five other gorillas die while in their " care " , you decided to take the ingenious step of " obtaining " four more for them. Silly me. What in the world was I thinking? <<It is WAZA’s stated policy to support international conservation treaties.>> Really? Fabulous! I can't wait to see the gorillas returned to Cameroon. Could I have a date please? <<Consequently, the WAZA Executive Office assisted the Secretariat of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) in the fact finding and suggested that Pretoria Zoo would be a suitable place to accommodate the animals in case they would have to be confiscated and could not be returned to their country of origin.>> Ah. But you see, they COULD be returned to their country of origin. But you know, when a bunch of white people get together and tell black people what is best for them, everything always works out well in the end doesn't it fellas? <<At the Executive Office’s request, Pretoria Zoo submitted a comprehensive documentation allowing the authorities to make an informed decision.>> Did they send pictures of the dead gorillas that had already died at Pretoria? How about the two infants under three months? Just curious. <<• The keeping of gorillas is expensive. Any institution receiving them should have a solid financial basis. Pretoria Zoo is the National Zoo of South Africa. It has a well administered budget, and the costs exceeding the revenues from gate fees etc. are covered by the National Government.>> In other words, whitie will cover all of the expenses. 'Course, any fool will tell you that infant and juvenile gorillas are a massive gate draw. But that was entirely immaterial to the good deed that Pretoria and WAZA were trying to do. <<• Any facility accepting animals from a country outside the species’ natural range should be able to guarantee lifetime care. Pretoria Zoo was established in 1898, and has been continually and extensively renewed. It is thus a very a long-term operation whose further existence is ensured by the fact that is government-owned and that it receives a very large number of visitors.>> Oh, I see. So, out of curiosity, how did you explain all of the gorillas which died at Pretoria in the past? And while we're on the subject, how about those facilities that ARE WITHIN the species natural range. You know, those pesky facility that by all rights and everything CITES stands for SHOULD go to? <<Lowland gorillas are endangered in the wild. Every year about 3000 gorillas are slaughtered for the illegal bushmeat trade. The maintenance of viable breeding populations in human care is therefore of utmost importance. For this reason, an international studbook is kept under the auspices of WAZA, and two of WAZA’s Association Members (AZA and EAZA) operate co-ordinated ex situ conservation breeding programmes. In 2002, the total of animals under control of the WAZA Network was 825 gorillas kept by 144 zoos. Of these, 388 gorillas in 56 zoos belong to the European Endangered Species Programme (EEP), which also includes Australia, and 373 gorillas in 53 zoos to the North American Species Survival Plan (SSP). Pretoria Zoo has always registered its animals in the International Studbook. The only gorilla currently at the zoo is a loan from the European Endangered Species Programme (EEP). The zoo has a commitment to cooperate with both, studbook and EEP also in future.>> And as I have already noted in the past, if Pretoria was so wonderful the EEP would be leaping to give them another gorilla. Perhaps some of you geniuses should have thought about the reason why they weren't obtaining another gorilla even though there is a practical glut of males within the international zoo community. Further, I know of no statistic which indicates that the current captive populations need additional genes. They are breeding and being managed quite well without the influx of these gorillas. The problem lies in WILD populations. You know fellas, the populations from which these gorillas came because some greedy bastard like you ordered their capture. <<Pretoria Zoo employs not only dedicated and experienced animal keepers, but also two fully salaried staff veterinarians and a veterinary nurse. The zoo has its own animal hospital, it can count on the cooperation of the world-renowned Onderstepoort Veterinary Faculty, which is only a few minutes drive away, and there are numerous human medicine institutes and hospitals in Pretoria, which could be consulted if necessary.>> Too bad you fellas didn't use these facilities with the last lot you killed. Then maybe you wouldn't have to steal gorillas from Cameroon in order to increase your gate revenue. <<Animals taken out of their original range may attract pathogens, often without becoming clinically ill themselves. This may be a problem for the wild population if the animals would be returned to their home land, and would have to be addressed by adequate veterinary expertise and appropriate quarantine facilities. Pretoria Zoo, apart from having the veterinary experience and facilities available, lies outside the gorilla’s range, i.e. no disease could be transmitted to wild gorillas.>> And you fellas know quite well that this would not have been a problem for Limbe, who have successfully rehabilitated hundreds of primates, including dozens of gorillas in FAR WORSE condition than these gorillas. <<Those who promote the transfer of the gorillas to a sanctuary instead of a zoo claim that a strong message needs to be sent to zoos to the effect that illegal trade in gorillas will not be rewarded. WAZA is not aware of any of its member zoos having accepted gorillas from illegal sources within at least the past twenty years.>> Until now friend. In one swoop you have made your organization and Pretoria Zoo look like a bunch of greedy lying bastards. And a press release isn't going to fix that. <<73 % of the gorillas currently kept by zoos are born in human care, many of them are second or third generation animals. Only nine gorillas from the wild were added to the studbook during the past ten years. This includes animals confiscated by the authorities and subsequently entrusted to a zoo pursuant to article VIII.4 of CITES.>> And in each case the NATION of ORIGIN had something to say about it. But this time you and John Sellars (CITES) have decided what is best in spite of the facts, the law, and the demands of Cameroon. Gotta love greedy and power-hungry white men. <<The Taping gorillas have to tell a story by which they would promote CITES and conservation in general. However, for telling a story, an audience is needed. Pretoria Zoo has an attendance of 600'000 to 800'000 visitors per year forming a huge audience. In addition, there are a number of outreach activities. South Africa is often blamed for having allowed the transit of illegally traded CITES specimens. Having the four gorillas at Pretoria Zoo in combination with the activities envisaged will help to create awareness among the general public, but also among airline personnel, customs officers, border veterinarians etc. and thus help to prevent similar cases in future.>> And as I noted the last time I wrote you fellas, who is learning their story? The mostly white visitors of Pretoria, who will return home to their cushy homes and feel warm and safe in knowing that these gorillas are safe from the evil black people who tried to kill them? Nice message boys. And not only is your message a racist and ignorant one, it is useless. The people who need to learn about gorilla conservation are the people on the ground, in-situ, where populations are being killed. But I can see why you fellas don't want that to happen. If people on the ground are taught to protect wildlife, then your source of wild-caught wildlife dries up and God forbid that. <<The visitors meeting the gorillas at Pretoria Zoo may be disposed to donate money for gorilla conservation. Pretoria Zoo will undertake to establish a Gorilla Conservation Fund subject to official audit and to scrutiny by CITES. This fund will be used to support conservation projects in the gorilla range states of West and Central Africa.>> Ah, see folks, there is the sanctuary carrot. Play along and you might get some money from the Pretoria Zoo. Note the " may " in the sentence, too. How lovely. Sanctuaries in Africa will be offered money earned off of the backs of the very animals they are trying to protect, which were illegally stolen and sent to a zoo, in order to make money for that zoo. What sheer genius. <<Those who oppose the transfer of the gorillas to Pretoria Zoo argue that sending victims of one zoo's misconduct to reward or award another zoo would not be acceptable, and they suggest that zoos want to purchase gorillas for economic profit. These arguments are not pertinent, as they are based on an antiquated understanding of justice implying a collective guilt of zoos, and a complete lack of understanding of the economic relevance of keeping gorillas in a zoo.>> Not at all. I get it completely. You guys see a source of revenue and you believe that you can make a ton of money off of these gorillas (and everyone knows you will) so you'd rather see the gorillas go to Pretoria rather than Limbe because that way you can make money. It makes sense. Of course it does. I get it. I just happen to think that you are all a bunch of racist sleazebags who don't have any problem carrying out a misinformation campaign and twisting facts in order to obtain the gorillas. <<Of course, gorillas are a high profile species, and opening a new gorilla exhibit or adding a group of gorillas to the collection will always result in an increase of visitor numbers. However, zoos having given up the keeping of gorillas to make more space available for other species, such as Aalborg, Copenhagen or Rome Zoo, have seen no negative impact on visitor numbers, and in zoos having built new and attractive gorilla exhibits, visitor numbers returned more or less to normal after a while.>> Sell that someplace else, fellas. We're talking about infant gorillas, now made entirely infamous by your backdoor, double-talking machinations. The lines will be out the door and you know it. And lines out the door is a nice influx of cash, which is the only reason you people are doing this and you, I, and everyone else who reads anything about this case knows it. - Hope Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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