advice please

May 11, 2002

I am outraged at news of the death of chickens due to disruption to the power

supply. The air con system came about when an influential figure came out with

this idea of air conditioning chicken sheds to prevent bad odour from chicken

waste. This is result. Anyone on the best way of rearing chickens apart from

free ranging? Thanks.

The Star Monday, April 29, 2002

Over 8,000 chickens die during outage

SIK: A poultry farmer in Kampung Begia, Jeniang, near here incurred losses

exceeding RM50,000 when 8,500 chickens reared in an air-conditioned enclosure

died after a four-hour power disruption.

Chan Tha Rat, 36, when met by Bernama at his farm yesterday, blamed Tenaga

Nasional Berhad (TNB) for his loss.

He claimed the company did not notify him of the impending power disruption.

A TNB spokesman said the company was investigating the matter.

Chan said the 37-day-old chickens died because of the heat.

The system of rearing chickens under this cooling system was developed by

Syarikat Pertanian Pertiwi Sdn Bhd, a subsidiary of CP Group of Thailand.

Chan said he had lodged a police report and had gone to the TNB office here for

an explanation and compensation over the death of the chickens.

" All the chickens died around the same time and more are expected to die,

judging from their weak condition, " he said.

Pertanian Pertiwi branch acting manager Wilar Din Chen said they were not

responsible over the farmer's losses.

However, he said, the company was willing to help " from the management aspect. "

July 11, 2004

In a message dated 7/10/04 3:19:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 1 Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:48:19 -0400 "Cynthia Gadarian" <cgadarianAdvice, pleaseLeavesHi-I am new to this group but have been on other vegan chat lists before. I signed off one particularly hostile list, so I am hoping that the question I am going to ask now does not start a hostile discussion. I would like your ideas, I truly would. I will try to present my thoughts in an organized fashion.1. I have always worn New Balance Walking shoes. They are the only ones that have supported my orthotics, my heavy weight, my leg pain, etc.. For this reason, I love them.2. I have tried many other shoes: Easy Spirit, Rockport, etc. None are comfortable. My foot is extra wide: EE.3. New Balance, at my inquiry, sent me a rather ambiguous email telling me which of their shoes were animal-free. However, I will insert here what New Balance said about the glue in the shoes:"ALL of the following models are made with synthetic materials.However. please note that we do use different types of gluesdepending on what is available. Also be aware that some of ourglues will contain animal products as many glues do. Even thoughthe shoe contains all synthetic leather does not mean it willbe completely vegan. We do not mix real and synthetic leatherson any shoe. It is either leather or synthetic period."4. This means to me that there would be absolutely no way of knowing if the shoes were vegan or not. They might have animal-free glue, or they might not, but I would have no way of knowing. I am trying to do this right. This threw me for a loop, however.My question: Would you wear the shoes? Why or why not?Thanks very much.C. Gadarian

Hi there C

This is my opinion that I am sure others will find repugnant but here it goes:

I would wear the shoes. I would wear the shoes meanwhile eat an almost perfect vegan diet and do whatever else I can to alleviate suffer. I would wear them because a) it's hard for you to find shoes that fit b) it's hard to find a good pair of totally vegan running shoes period and c) your energy and effort in helping animals would go further in another aspect of activism.

I am one of those vegans who feel that it's best to deal with the "big stuff" (not eating chicken thighs and wings) and worry less about the little stuff (small amount of milk in muffin, for example). I think that if we spend too much energy worrying about the little stuff...we may miss the whole point or the bigger stuff. Also, others who are not vegan often won't try our lifestyle because they will think that they have to be perfect in everything they do....and I would rather not turn them off. Put simply...I'd rather see people avoiding eating slabs of cows, pigs or chickens and eating muffins with some butter than not doing anything at all!

Okay, those are my two cents.

Kristina

July 11, 2004

Thanks so much, Kristina. The list respondents have been very kind about this. I promised that I would let everyone know my decision, so here goes.

My personal belief is that being a Vegan is a process, not an event. In other words, the whole experience is a learning continuum in which we do the best we can to use animal-free products, but leave ourselves the room to make mistakes, study, and find other options next time. I will wear the shoes, which will give me the added time to find a company whose shoes will be comparable but completely and certainly Vegan. If someone ever asks me if I am protecting the animals on our planet, I can say that I certainly am studying, changing, and doing the best I can to eliminate non-Vegan products to the best of my ability.

I remember a long time ago when Burger King came out with a "vegetarian" burger that had milk products in it (I did not like it.) Many Vegans on another list I was on railed against Vegans who would eat this Burger King product. It did not affect me, but I found the whole screaming argument very tedious. I am SO happy that people on this list exchange ideas civilly so that I can learn from all of you. Thanks so much.

Cynthia

-

lv2breathe

Cc: Lv2breathe

Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:10 PM

Re: Advice please

In a message dated 7/10/04 3:19:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 1 Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:48:19 -0400 "Cynthia Gadarian" <cgadarianAdvice, pleaseLeavesHi-I am new to this group but have been on other vegan chat lists before. I signed off one particularly hostile list, so I am hoping that the question I am going to ask now does not start a hostile discussion. I would like your ideas, I truly would. I will try to present my thoughts in an organized fashion.1. I have always worn New Balance Walking shoes. They are the only ones that have supported my orthotics, my heavy weight, my leg pain, etc.. For this reason, I love them.2. I have tried many other shoes: Easy Spirit, Rockport, etc. None are comfortable. My foot is extra wide: EE.3. New Balance, at my inquiry, sent me a rather ambiguous email telling me which of their shoes were animal-free. However, I will insert here what New Balance said about the glue in the shoes:"ALL of the following models are made with synthetic materials.However. please note that we do use different types of gluesdepending on what is available. Also be aware that some of ourglues will contain animal products as many glues do. Even thoughthe shoe contains all synthetic leather does not mean it willbe completely vegan. We do not mix real and synthetic leatherson any shoe. It is either leather or synthetic period."4. This means to me that there would be absolutely no way of knowing if the shoes were vegan or not. They might have animal-free glue, or they might not, but I would have no way of knowing. I am trying to do this right. This threw me for a loop, however.My question: Would you wear the shoes? Why or why not?Thanks very much.C. Gadarian

Hi there C

This is my opinion that I am sure others will find repugnant but here it goes:

I would wear the shoes. I would wear the shoes meanwhile eat an almost perfect vegan diet and do whatever else I can to alleviate suffer. I would wear them because a) it's hard for you to find shoes that fit b) it's hard to find a good pair of totally vegan running shoes period and c) your energy and effort in helping animals would go further in another aspect of activism.

I am one of those vegans who feel that it's best to deal with the "big stuff" (not eating chicken thighs and wings) and worry less about the little stuff (small amount of milk in muffin, for example). I think that if we spend too much energy worrying about the little stuff...we may miss the whole point or the bigger stuff. Also, others who are not vegan often won't try our lifestyle because they will think that they have to be perfect in everything they do....and I would rather not turn them off. Put simply...I'd rather see people avoiding eating slabs of cows, pigs or chickens and eating muffins with some butter than not doing anything at all!

Okay, those are my two cents.

KristinaTo send an email to -