List Mom note : DON¹T COPY ALL THE REPIED TO EMAIL !!!

[Guest guest]

Please ... I really appreciate all your posts *BUT* ...

 

Can you guys get the message

 

DON¹T COPY ALL THE REPLIED-TO EMAIL

 

WHEN YOU REPLY TO A POST ON ANY EMAIL LIST.

 

or I will put you all on digest mode to find out why.

 

 

Why?

 

a ) it makes you look like lazy or a retard who does not know how to change

the preferences on their emailer / webmail.

 

b ) it is a waste of bandwith that cost all internet users millions each

year

 

c ) it gums up the digest for folk that receive 10 or 20 mails one a day and

makes for mile long emails to try and follow.

 

d ) it is bad netiquette ... Remember good manners are golden and exist even

on the internet

 

e ) I say so and I am the one megalomaniac on this email list that gets to

say so!

 

So,

 

DON¹T COPY ALL THE REPLIED-TO EMAIL

 

WHEN YOU REPLY TO A POST ON ANY EMAIL LIST.

 

 

[ a couple of lines here and there are fine - if you do not know how to

write a well composed email - but that is all. ]

 

Other good hints are USE paragraph spaces and a space or two after your mail

before the replied-to bit to make it all readable.

 

Trust me, people will appreciate and hanker after you very word, your

stature growing immeasurably.

 

 

the wrath of john

 

 

Example :

 

 

______________________

______________________

 

Message: 7

Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:23:03 -0400

resppect

Re: for Brad

 

....Well I thank you then, Brad. Earthsave was my introduction to learning

about the resource use and pollution of animal foods; before them I only

thought there was an ethical aspect for veganism.

 

I agree with you so much on that idea of other seeing what happens. All it

took for me was the knowledge that animals were killed. If others saw

pictures, or to the most extreme, visited a slaughterhouse, .... and

educated on alternatives and educated on how be assured of adequate

nutrition, I think a lot of people would make changes.

 

For many people 'seeing is believing' and things we don't see can seem

somehow abstract and not 100% real; of they might seem real, but not really

connected to oneself enough to feel responsibility. Abstract thigns can be

easy to explain away in order to protect our emotional self. But pictures

make it reality.

 

I'm devoting my life to increase the quality of life for those who have the

least quality of life, hopefully through philanthropy (financinge earthsave,

veganoutreach, and other groups)

Until I reach that goal, I spend most my time understanding things better,

and spreading information. I'm big on just making info available, becasue

people will, and should, make their own decisions from credible info, imo

Here's all my sites so far, some aren't finished completely, and I keep

adding info as I find it

http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/FarmAnimalLives.html

http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/MorePeacefulDiet.html

http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/PlantFoodNutrition.html

http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/Veg_anImprovements.html

http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/GMOharms.html

 

 

IMO, VeganOutreach are the Dalia Lama's of the vegan advocates. These guys

helped me through a lot of tough emotions and issues

Here's there site for advocacy

http://veganoutreach.org/advocacy/

They've got some really wise ideas such as focusing efforts on the people

who are most likely to be interested- which they identify as college

students

 

you have any good urls?

 

Jon

 

-

" kiwi2000 " <kiwi2000

<vegan-network >

Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:58 PM

Re: [100% veg*n ] for Brad

 

 

> Jon,

> Nice to meet you.

> I know in my head that you're right. My heart is trying to catch up. I

belong to Earthsave. I wasn't as lucky as you

> and was put down by my friends and girlfriend at the time when I started

to become a veg person. I don't go around being mean

> to people who are meat eaters. I understand about compassion. I just need

more practice. I really think that if individuals

> had to kill that cow, pig or chicken themselves for their food and look

the animals in the eyes and hear their screams that many people

> couldn't do it. It's too easy to let others do the killing for them.

> Brad

> -

> resppect

> vegan-network

> Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:38 PM

> Re: [100% veg*n ] for Brad

>

>

> Brad,

> by the way, a pleasure to meet you, you obviously care a lot and

sincerely.

>

> I still burn myself when I think of Bush/Cheney and what they have done

> environmentally.

>

> on the personal, non-financially-conflicted level, though, things are

much

> different. It's mostly a matter of innocent people being victims by

being

> raised into a culture and a family that introduces meat,eggs,and milk as

> food. Depending on when that person is introduced to the idea of

> understanding where they come from and what it requires it can be very

> ingrained in their habits, traditions, enjoyment. These people, which

> included us too, were brought up into one crappy situation, and we are

left

> by ourselves to make large changes to our lifestyles.

> I am lucky as hell that I didn't get 1 single insult or anything before

I

> went vegan. And the few veg*ans I knew of only supported me. My first

> vegan I saw made an impression on me that vegans could interact friendly

> just like anyone else. I personally, can be confused and very

un-natural

> when with other non-vegans (trying to figure out if I should be a silent

> role-model, try to change them, try to force them to change, show them

> pictures against their will, etc)

>

> Just take care, and remember that every person has the potential to

change,

> and the more respectful and caring we are, the more chance there is that

> they'll be openminded to think about things. Remember that we can't

force

> anyone to change, but that the change has to come from within them. And

for

> them to want to change they have to know reasons why, and to be able to

know

> reasons why, they need to feel free to learn new info and not be

challenged

> or attcked, but be encouraged to think about it.

> Knowing that and caring is all you need to get where I am and beyond

>

> and at the risk of sounding silly, an intro to buddhism will be more

useful

> than you'd imagine in handling these emotions

>

> are you involved in any activist groups?

>

> Jon

>

>

> -

> " kiwi2000 " <kiwi2000

> <vegan-network >

> Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:43 PM

> Re: [100% veg*n ] for Brad

>

>

> > Jon,

> > as I said I'm not saying I'm right. I can't help how I feel.

I

> can't understand why people don't care

> > if they are made to think about it when maybe they never have before.

I

> guess you're right. It makes sense but part of me is still angry that

while

> we're being caring and patient, the slaughter goes on and on. I wish I

knew

> how to get to where you are.

> > Brad

> > -

> > resppect

> > vegan-network

> > Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:28 PM

> > Re: [100% veg*n ] for Brad

> >

> >

> > Brad,

> >

> > If the definition of " bad " is anyone who causes harm to animals,

then

> anyone

> > using a computer, or any manufactured product is bad. They require

> > buildings, which have cleared trees, materials- same thing, energy

which

> is

> > usually oil -oil spills, air pollution. There's waste

> >

> > Okay, so the majority of people cause harm, either knowingly or

> unknowingly.

> > If we use the above *arbitrary* definition of " bad " (there is no

> specific

> > measurement or specific description of " bad " ; (what is 'defined' as

> " bad " is

> > mostly determined either by accepting culture's use of the word, or

up

> to

> > our emotions, or how something fits in with an arbitrary system

(like

> laws)

> > Anyway, if we use that definition, then we are all " bad " .....

> >

> > and hopefully the next realiztion is that way of looking at things

> doesn't

> > help anything. Pointing fingers and focusing on other's most

negative

> > points *will not* do anything to improve things. On the contrary

it

> *will*

> > generally increase people's defensiveness, raise a focus on guilt

> instead of

> > on improving things, reduce the support which people need when faced

> with

> > emotionally difficult decisions.

> >

> > If we are focused on improving things, then the best to do is to

make

> info

> > available, and caringly support people. Angry words might seem

valid

> to

> > us, but the effects of those words are harmful to what our goals

are.

> We

> > can be angry at the harms, and angry at the cause of the harm, but

> speaking

> > the anger will not help; it will be more harmful than helpful.

> >

> > This is clear as day to me, maybe since I've gotten past the anger

> phase.

> > Doesn't it makes sense that things will improve more if we care and

> support

> > people, instead of throwing anger and resentment at them?

> >

> >

> > ?

> >

> > Jon

> >

> >

> > -

> > " kiwi2000 " <kiwi2000

> > <vegan-network >

> > Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:16 PM

> > Re: [100% veg*n ] for Brad

> >

> >

> > > Jon,

> > > I have all of these issues. When you say you weren't a

bad

> > person, I'm not sure what that means. If one participates in the

murder

> > > and torture of innocent life, without even bothering think about

it, I

> > would argue that that person is in some ways a bad person just as I

was

> and

> > just as you were. A savage is a good term for it. That we struggle

with

> > these issues and try to not harm other beings says a lot for us. I'm

not

> > sure how to convert people. I know John Robbins has the

compassionate

> > approach and maybe that's the way to be. I'm not there yet. I still

feel

> > > anger toward society and meat eaters. I can't respect or love a

meat

> eater

> > and I stand by what I said to Hannah about her marriage to one.

> > >

> > >

> > Brad

> > > -

> > > resppect

> > > vegan-network

> > > Tuesday, July 09, 2002 3:05 PM

> > > Re: [100% veg*n ] for Brad

> > >

> > >

> > > Brad,

> > >

> > > I can remember back to my days of growing up eating anything,

where

> I

> > didn't

> > > hear the idea of where meat comes from, and I'd argue strongly

that

> I

> > wasn't

> > > a bad person for not having heard of it.

> > > And when it took me many months to remove dairy and eggs, I'd

argue

> that

> > I

> > > wasn't a bad person as I struggled through the trying to find

> > alternatives,

> > > feeling more separate from my family, moving from accepting

almost

> all

> > > society to disliking an entire industry, wondering if I should

try

> to

> > > convert people, and what is the best way to treat people.

> > >

> > > Did you have any of these issues?

> > >

> > > respectfully

> > > Jon

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > " kiwi2000 " <kiwi2000

> > > <bevanmetro; <darquehaven >;

> > > <ESI-List; <eco_vegans >;

> > > <HarmNone >; <michele;

> > > <Scathing_Vegans >;

> > <stopanimalcruelty;

> > > <TFHB >; <vegan-network >;

> > > <vc27; <EBbrewpunx;

> ;

> > > <veganhumpers >; <veganmania >;

> > > <.Lesley; <dropscone;

> > <tofujojo

> > > Tuesday, July 09, 2002 2:16 PM

> > > [100% veg*n ] I married a meat eater

> > >

> > >

> > > > I for one could never love a meat eater. It seems to me that

what

> > you've

> > > done, for purposes of convenience, is to completely deny

> > > > that your mate has no concern whatever for the lives and

rights of

> > other

> > > sentient beings and no appreciation for the fact that all life

is

> > precious

> > > and connected and is that he is basically a savage (as are all

meat

> > eaters).

> > > You've completely compromised your values because to try and

find a

> > > vegetarian, or even more difficult, a vegan mate would have been

> > infinitely

> > > more difficult as those of us who choose not to compromise have

> > discovered.

> > > How could you love a person, you being a vegan, who does not

share

> your

> > > outrage at the murder and torture of billions of beautiful,

innocent

> > beings

> > > and in fact participates in it? If this isn't a sellout, I don't

> know

> > what

> > > is. Sorry but it isn't just a matter of bing different. It's the

> > difference

> > > between being a murderer and being a person who is trying to

stop

> the

> > > murderer from killing. I always find amazing the degree to

which

> human

> > > nature can allow people to rationalize and deny anything and

> everything

> > no

> > > matter how glaringly hypocri!

> > > > tical.

> > > >

> > Brad

> > > > -

> > > > Trusty, Hannah

> > > > EBbrewpunx ;

> > > > Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:53 AM

> > > > RE: Digest Number 395

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I just have to say.....I married a meat-eater and things are

great

> > between

> > > us (granted I don't cook meat and he seems to like my vegan

meals

> and he

> > > seems to be thinking about becoming a vegetarian-ovo,lacto).

Still

> if

> > he

> > > never changes, I love him just the same. I understand the want

to

> share

> > > your life with another vegan, but from my experience I would

have

> lost

> > out

> > > on a lot if I had refused to see a meat eater. But then again,

he's

> > Baptist

> > > and I'm Wiccan so I guess we just like being different.

> > > >

> > > > Hannah

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >