Guest guest Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hi all, Did anyone else feel like a total freak when they turned vegan? I mean, this is one of the most wonderful things I've done in my life, and my wonderful fiancé is 100% supportive although still an omnivore himself. But the rest of my friends are just... well, awful, although they certainly don't mean to be. It's an interesting contrast - the guys in the office who don't have to be accomodating have been really interested and very supportive and started bringing in vegan friendly cakes on birthdays. But every time I mention it on livejournal, where a lot of my social interaction takes place, I either get lambasted or I get preachy comments along the lines of " well I think you're wrong and I wouldn't do it but I don't think you'll listen to me so I may as well have not posted. " The thing is, I have a chronic mood disorder and I can't keep going with messages like that, it's just wearing me down. So what? Do I not blog about the most important thing I've done in the last year? Do I switch the comment function off? I don't have the energy to keep arguing round in circles with people who I know won't listen to me. Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? Cheers Gaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hi there, I know how you feel!! Have you read the book 'Vegan Freak'? I found it really helpful as it has loads of tips and advice about how to deal with all the negativity, my worst battle was with someone who was meant ot be one of my closest friends who told me she thought I was destroying the planet by being vegan as the rain forests are being cut down to grow soya for me to eat! It really upset me. I remember going through the same thing when I first became vegetarian as that was 30 years ago now and I was seen as a freak, I couldn't eat my lunch at work without snidey comments about my food. I don't think it will ever go away, I think you just have to brace yourself with some standard answers like those suggested in vegan freak and prepare to do battle!! The more you do it, the more you'll harden to it.....stick in there and battle away is my advice:-) Cheers, Pumpkin - gayalondiel99 Monday, June 16, 2008 6:59 PM Freakdom Hi all, Did anyone else feel like a total freak when they turned vegan? I mean, this is one of the most wonderful things I've done in my life, and my wonderful fiancé is 100% supportive although still an omnivore himself. But the rest of my friends are just... well, awful, although they certainly don't mean to be. It's an interesting contrast - the guys in the office who don't have to be accomodating have been really interested and very supportive and started bringing in vegan friendly cakes on birthdays. But every time I mention it on livejournal, where a lot of my social interaction takes place, I either get lambasted or I get preachy comments along the lines of " well I think you're wrong and I wouldn't do it but I don't think you'll listen to me so I may as well have not posted. " The thing is, I have a chronic mood disorder and I can't keep going with messages like that, it's just wearing me down. So what? Do I not blog about the most important thing I've done in the last year? Do I switch the comment function off? I don't have the energy to keep arguing round in circles with people who I know won't listen to me. Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? Cheers Gaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hi Gaya, > Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? You're not alone - every vegan not lucky enough to be living on a vegan commune goes through this. As Pumpkin says, the bad news is that putting up with cr*p from ignorant people never really goes away. But the good news is that, in my experience at least, the number of ignorant people does gradually lessen... This happens most obviously with people you come into contact with most, starting with close friends and kind of rippling outwards. As long as you keep on countering their misinformed arguments, as long as you show that veganism is a viable lifestyle, there seems to gradually come a change in their attitude. Sometimes, you'll find that people start feeling guilty about eating meat around you. Sometimes - and this has happened to my wife - you'll find that people will take up your cause without chaing themselves - taking care to bring in vegan cake to work, checking with a restaurant you are going to that they have a vegan option. Sometimes they may even - gasp! - become vegan, or at least, be more aware of their dietry choices. And overall, even in the relatively few years that I've been a vegan, it has gone from hardly anyone even having heard of the word, to most people knowing what a vegan is, and why, supermarkets labelling food as vegan, etc. We seem, as a movement, to be where vegetarianism was X years ago - just beginning to penetrate mass awareness. Which, probably, stems from the above - the gradual effect of people beingvegan. That said, you'll always encounter people who aren't interested in listening to your arguments, who just want to insult or offend you. Mainly, it seems, online, where they can do so anonymously, where it is easier to insult someone than having to have the courage to do so to their face. Sometimes you'll feel up to the battle of responding, of being, well, evangelistic I suppose. I know a few people who even go onto hunting and pro-meat websites to argue for veganism. But if you don't feel you can face responding - and often I can't - then yes, turn the comment function off on livejournal, block emails from people who flame you, don't mention that you are vegan in places where you know you will be insulted. This is no different to making the decision that today you just can't face reading the atrocities listed on an animal rights list, or letting some stupid comment about soya-eaters destroying the rainforest pass because you can't face making the same points for the hundredth time. And it doesn't make you a bad vegan! In fact, to resort to one of my favourite themes, veganism is about the attempt to reduce animal suffering so far as is possible and practical _for you_. Some people have thick skin and can argue all day with meat-eaters - this is possible and practical for them. Others - often myself included - can't. Sometimes you'll have more energy and will to argue than other times. And this isn't something to feel bad or guilty about. None of which, I'm aware, is particularly helpful in terms of advice. Mainly because I'm always hesitant about offering that kind of thing. But perhaps, for me at least, the most important helpful thing to do is to keep in contact with other vegans. On forums, by email, in person if you're lucky enough to know anyone. In my opinion, vegan groups aren't so much about sharing recipies - we all know how to cook for ourselves! - as they are about taking comfort in the presence of other vegans. That way, at least, you won't feel quite so much like it's you against the rest of the meat-eating world. John - " gayalondiel99 " <gayalondiel Monday, June 16, 2008 6:59 PM Freakdom Hi all, Did anyone else feel like a total freak when they turned vegan? I mean, this is one of the most wonderful things I've done in my life, and my wonderful fiancé is 100% supportive although still an omnivore himself. But the rest of my friends are just... well, awful, although they certainly don't mean to be. It's an interesting contrast - the guys in the office who don't have to be accomodating have been really interested and very supportive and started bringing in vegan friendly cakes on birthdays. But every time I mention it on livejournal, where a lot of my social interaction takes place, I either get lambasted or I get preachy comments along the lines of " well I think you're wrong and I wouldn't do it but I don't think you'll listen to me so I may as well have not posted. " The thing is, I have a chronic mood disorder and I can't keep going with messages like that, it's just wearing me down. So what? Do I not blog about the most important thing I've done in the last year? Do I switch the comment function off? I don't have the energy to keep arguing round in circles with people who I know won't listen to me. Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? Cheers Gaya --- ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to -! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Thanks for your reply, John. I have been struggling as a vegan in a non vegan world, especially among friends who make me feel stupid sometimes- I'm not always ready to fight for fear of alienating them completely, but started to wonder if they should really be my friends at all! Anyway, groups like this are great for chatting to like- minded people and to feel 'normal' now and again , " John Davis " <mcxg46 wrote: > > Hi Gaya, > > > Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? > > You're not alone - every vegan not lucky enough to be living on a vegan > commune goes through this. As Pumpkin says, the bad news is that putting up > with cr*p from ignorant people never really goes away. But the good news is > that, in my experience at least, the number of ignorant people does > gradually lessen... > > This happens most obviously with people you come into contact with most, > starting with close friends and kind of rippling outwards. As long as you > keep on countering their misinformed arguments, as long as you show that > veganism is a viable lifestyle, there seems to gradually come a change in > their attitude. Sometimes, you'll find that people start feeling guilty > about eating meat around you. Sometimes - and this has happened to my wife - > you'll find that people will take up your cause without chaing themselves - > taking care to bring in vegan cake to work, checking with a restaurant you > are going to that they have a vegan option. Sometimes they may even - > gasp! - become vegan, or at least, be more aware of their dietry choices. > > And overall, even in the relatively few years that I've been a vegan, it has > gone from hardly anyone even having heard of the word, to most people > knowing what a vegan is, and why, supermarkets labelling food as vegan, etc. > We seem, as a movement, to be where vegetarianism was X years ago - just > beginning to penetrate mass awareness. Which, probably, stems from the > above - the gradual effect of people beingvegan. > > That said, you'll always encounter people who aren't interested in listening > to your arguments, who just want to insult or offend you. Mainly, it seems, > online, where they can do so anonymously, where it is easier to insult > someone than having to have the courage to do so to their face. Sometimes > you'll feel up to the battle of responding, of being, well, evangelistic I > suppose. I know a few people who even go onto hunting and pro-meat websites > to argue for veganism. But if you don't feel you can face responding - and > often I can't - then yes, turn the comment function off on livejournal, > block emails from people who flame you, don't mention that you are vegan in > places where you know you will be insulted. This is no different to making > the decision that today you just can't face reading the atrocities listed on > an animal rights list, or letting some stupid comment about soya- eaters > destroying the rainforest pass because you can't face making the same points > for the hundredth time. And it doesn't make you a bad vegan! > > In fact, to resort to one of my favourite themes, veganism is about the > attempt to reduce animal suffering so far as is possible and practical _for > you_. Some people have thick skin and can argue all day with meat- eaters - > this is possible and practical for them. Others - often myself included - > can't. Sometimes you'll have more energy and will to argue than other times. > And this isn't something to feel bad or guilty about. > > None of which, I'm aware, is particularly helpful in terms of advice. Mainly > because I'm always hesitant about offering that kind of thing. But perhaps, > for me at least, the most important helpful thing to do is to keep in > contact with other vegans. On forums, by email, in person if you're lucky > enough to know anyone. In my opinion, vegan groups aren't so much about > sharing recipies - we all know how to cook for ourselves! - as they are > about taking comfort in the presence of other vegans. > > That way, at least, you won't feel quite so much like it's you against the > rest of the meat-eating world. > > John > > - > " gayalondiel99 " <gayalondiel > > Monday, June 16, 2008 6:59 PM > Freakdom > > > Hi all, > > Did anyone else feel like a total freak when they turned vegan? I > mean, this is one of the most wonderful things I've done in my life, > and my wonderful fiancé is 100% supportive although still an omnivore > himself. But the rest of my friends are just... well, awful, although > they certainly don't mean to be. It's an interesting contrast - the > guys in the office who don't have to be accomodating have been really > interested and very supportive and started bringing in vegan friendly > cakes on birthdays. But every time I mention it on livejournal, where > a lot of my social interaction takes place, I either get lambasted or > I get preachy comments along the lines of " well I think you're wrong > and I wouldn't do it but I don't think you'll listen to me so I may as > well have not posted. " > > The thing is, I have a chronic mood disorder and I can't keep going > with messages like that, it's just wearing me down. So what? Do I > not blog about the most important thing I've done in the last year? > Do I switch the comment function off? I don't have the energy to keep > arguing round in circles with people who I know won't listen to me. > > Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? > > Cheers > Gaya > > > --- > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to > -! Groups Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 I would go out and get some vegan or at least veggie friends and drop them, but that’s just me! I don’t mean to advise anyone to drop all meat eating friends, just the hostile and confrontational ones who do not respect your veganism, it’s not as if they have not had their chance to become more respectful, at some point enough is enough! Lesley _____ On Behalf Of Jenny Dunleavy 17 June 2008 11:26 Re: Freakdom Thanks for your reply, John. I have been struggling as a vegan in a non vegan world, especially among friends who make me feel stupid sometimes- I'm not always ready to fight for fear of alienating them completely, but started to wonder if they should really be my friends at all! Anyway, groups like this are great for chatting to like- minded people and to feel 'normal' now and again @ <%40> .com, " John Davis " <mcxg46 wrote: > > Hi Gaya, > > > Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? > > You're not alone - every vegan not lucky enough to be living on a vegan > commune goes through this. As Pumpkin says, the bad news is that putting up > with cr*p from ignorant people never really goes away. But the good news is > that, in my experience at least, the number of ignorant people does > gradually lessen... > > This happens most obviously with people you come into contact with most, > starting with close friends and kind of rippling outwards. As long as you > keep on countering their misinformed arguments, as long as you show that > veganism is a viable lifestyle, there seems to gradually come a change in > their attitude. Sometimes, you'll find that people start feeling guilty > about eating meat around you. Sometimes - and this has happened to my wife - > you'll find that people will take up your cause without chaing themselves - > taking care to bring in vegan cake to work, checking with a restaurant you > are going to that they have a vegan option. Sometimes they may even - > gasp! - become vegan, or at least, be more aware of their dietry choices. > > And overall, even in the relatively few years that I've been a vegan, it has > gone from hardly anyone even having heard of the word, to most people > knowing what a vegan is, and why, supermarkets labelling food as vegan, etc. > We seem, as a movement, to be where vegetarianism was X years ago - just > beginning to penetrate mass awareness. Which, probably, stems from the > above - the gradual effect of people beingvegan. > > That said, you'll always encounter people who aren't interested in listening > to your arguments, who just want to insult or offend you. Mainly, it seems, > online, where they can do so anonymously, where it is easier to insult > someone than having to have the courage to do so to their face. Sometimes > you'll feel up to the battle of responding, of being, well, evangelistic I > suppose. I know a few people who even go onto hunting and pro-meat websites > to argue for veganism. But if you don't feel you can face responding - and > often I can't - then yes, turn the comment function off on livejournal, > block emails from people who flame you, don't mention that you are vegan in > places where you know you will be insulted. This is no different to making > the decision that today you just can't face reading the atrocities listed on > an animal rights list, or letting some stupid comment about soya- eaters > destroying the rainforest pass because you can't face making the same points > for the hundredth time. And it doesn't make you a bad vegan! > > In fact, to resort to one of my favourite themes, veganism is about the > attempt to reduce animal suffering so far as is possible and practical _for > you_. Some people have thick skin and can argue all day with meat- eaters - > this is possible and practical for them. Others - often myself included - > can't. Sometimes you'll have more energy and will to argue than other times. > And this isn't something to feel bad or guilty about. > > None of which, I'm aware, is particularly helpful in terms of advice. Mainly > because I'm always hesitant about offering that kind of thing. But perhaps, > for me at least, the most important helpful thing to do is to keep in > contact with other vegans. On forums, by email, in person if you're lucky > enough to know anyone. In my opinion, vegan groups aren't so much about > sharing recipies - we all know how to cook for ourselves! - as they are > about taking comfort in the presence of other vegans. > > That way, at least, you won't feel quite so much like it's you against the > rest of the meat-eating world. > > John > > - > " gayalondiel99 " <gayalondiel > <@ <%40> .com> > Monday, June 16, 2008 6:59 PM > Freakdom > > > Hi all, > > Did anyone else feel like a total freak when they turned vegan? I > mean, this is one of the most wonderful things I've done in my life, > and my wonderful fiancé is 100% supportive although still an omnivore > himself. But the rest of my friends are just... well, awful, although > they certainly don't mean to be. It's an interesting contrast - the > guys in the office who don't have to be accomodating have been really > interested and very supportive and started bringing in vegan friendly > cakes on birthdays. But every time I mention it on livejournal, where > a lot of my social interaction takes place, I either get lambasted or > I get preachy comments along the lines of " well I think you're wrong > and I wouldn't do it but I don't think you'll listen to me so I may as > well have not posted. " > > The thing is, I have a chronic mood disorder and I can't keep going > with messages like that, it's just wearing me down. So what? Do I > not blog about the most important thing I've done in the last year? > Do I switch the comment function off? I don't have the energy to keep > arguing round in circles with people who I know won't listen to me. > > Any advice would be great. Anyone go through this? > > Cheers > Gaya > > > --- > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > ------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to > -! Groups Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Jenny Dunleavy <jenny_dunleavy said: > started to wonder if they should really be my friends at all! It can be a challenging time, discovering how some people react to one's veganism, especially friends and family. There is an adjustment period, for all concerned - vegans and non-vegans. We both need to reforge the social boundaries. Food is an often-underestimated powerful social force - whether for friends, family or in other social situations (e.g. work-related). Non-vegans have to get used to us vegans not joining in on some of the social aspects of enjoying/sharing the same foods/restaurants. We are effectively rejecting their food choices and that can seem difficult for them, especially, as John put it (in his well written e-mail, thanks John): --- " John Davis " <mcxg46 wrote: > Sometimes, you'll find that people start feeling guilty about eating meat around you. I think this 'guilt' is, more often than not, the cause of initial problems coming from the non-vegans (and I include some vegetarians in this!). But it may be a combination of both guilt and politeness. The guilt may come from the fact that people are actually empathising with your feelings and do not want to upset you by doing something you disapprove of (eating cheese/meat in front of you). Indeed, it can go much deeper than that, in that your friends have often tried vegetarianism or veganism and returned to meat or veggie due to relatively superficial reasons. In that situation, where one appears to be more commited (to, say, vegetarianism) than someone else, a defensive feeling can be provoked in others. I know that I feel slightly defensive when I come across someone being more 'green', more ethical than myself. I can find myself (lazily) labelling them as a bit extreme - convincing myself that I am the one who has the better balance between social and ethical. It's natural, I think. I just have to remember to praise them instead of calling them a nutter. I think a lot of people suffer the same feelings when they encounter a vegan. As said above, non-vegans are also wanting to be polite (e.g. when eating meat/non-vegan around you) and simply not wanting to make you feel uncomfortable around their food. They think they understand your feelings about being around meat and want to avoid your discomfort. This is where I think our (vegan) responsibility for forging those new boundaries comes in. Vegans should (in my opinion!) avoid provoking those feelings of guilt in our immediate fellows. I do this by defusing any friend's " Sorry for eating meat around you! " with a quick " It's okay, I ate meat until I was 16, so it doesn't strike me as odd. " I genuinely do not associate 'meat' with 'bad'. My veganism is more concerned with the fact that the animal existed in the first place, so this aspect (not being upset around meat) is a lot easier for me than other vegans, perhaps. My veganism comes from my wanting society to respect animals better, not individuals, if that makes sense. So, it's not a personal/tangible isuue on my table, it's a battle for hearts and minds (to coin an unpopular phrase). Yes, I don't approve of what they are doing, literally right under my nose, and I even campaign against it, but this is a social situation where I consider the immediate social aspects of friendship/family/work to be more important than my opinions on non-vegan food. It's a compromise that has perhaps become habitualised/abstracted. The alternative does seem to be to spurn non-vegans, and that's not an option that I consider practical. Similar to being around meat-eating, we vegans also have to get used to listening to someone talk about how lovely the meat/cheese was at such-and-such a restaurant without getting upset (or ranting about how 'wrong' it all is). I expect (and hope!) that, as time goes on, the numbers of vegetarians/vegans will begin to outnumber the others and such talk will ebb from the conversations of the future as a matter of social politeness. Until then, I imagine I'll be saying " You carry on, I'll just la-la-la my way through this part of the conversation, glad that you enjoyed a nice meal. " a few hundred more times. As these social boundaries shift, people come to understand that you don't feel bad around their food, and they won't feel bad eating around you. The social limits will have been reforged and balance will return. Significant numbers of my friends have, after months or years of knowing me, mentioned that the 'quiet confidence' around my veganism is what persuaded them towards veg*anism. I'm sure some have mentioned that I could be more confrontational. But you can't please all the people all the time, or you're a freak, surely? Um, so, in summary, welcome to the list. :-) -- Geraint A. Edwards (aka " Gedge " ) gedge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.