Further to my bad AGM experience

[Guest guest]

On the plus side, the Vegan Soc have made some improvements in child-friendliness with the magazine having a new kids' page, look out for it, it's by Bronwyn and Aisha who are amazing young animal activists along with their mum Coral. I really did hope Coral would be at the AGM, with the kids around, I would think lots of the members would have loved to meet those wonderful children, but they were not there.

 

I find it very sad and disappointing when I hear of vegan parents who do not raise their kids vegan, sometimes not even vegetarian (!), and this is what often happens in mixed relationships, the meat-eater wins out often especially if the vegan is the dad, so those vegan parents who did not get to raise their kids vegan from birth at least need to be able to get support to encourage those kids to see the reasons to follow them into veganism of their own accord from an early age.

 

Almost all the childless/childfree vegans we knew 10 to 14 years ago when we hung out in London Vegans were actually a bit older than us, and most of them have still not had kids, so I reckon they've missed the boat, well most of the women have anyway. It's weird how I was always someone who was quite sure I would have a family and yet I ended up with a bunch of friends who almost all never ended up having children and were no longer interested in us once we had ours, and they are mostly getting a bit too old now to ever have them. I would say that there are maybe one or two I am surprised haven't had children. All this ended up with us feeling like a minority!

 

I even married my first husband only to find out he was not sure if he wanted children (he somehow neglected to tell me this until a year after our marriage, even though I had been quite cheerily prattling on about wanting kids from a year or so before we were married, so he knew my feelings). I swear that this childfree thing has reached epidemic proportions, or maybe it was just my bad luck to have hung out with a certain type of people. I mostly hung out with AR people and other vegans. Didn't know there was going to be such a high tendency among them to go down the childfree by choice road at the time, I thought most of them that were my age would have families in the next five or ten years, but even knowing they were not having them would not have changed my own views and wishes anyway.

 

I was disappointed about not being able to see the new person on council who wants to expand the youth page of the mag, possibly into a separate young people's and children's newsletter. I'm very keen on this idea.

 

Lesley

 

 

Nick Abbott [nabbott]31 October 2002 00:01 Subject: RE: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience

Well, to attempt to stick my oar in - I think 'both sides' have a valid point. However you can't just have a 'stuffy' AGM, you need some social activity to compensate..As I said before children are the future (especially where Veganism is concerned) and if there aren't any child-friendly activities, then what's the point??!!

 

Methinks that if you get children interested they are more likely to 'co-operate' with Veganism, also the other point I want to make is that if vegan singles see vegan children 'coping' well then wouldn't that lead to them being encouraged to bring their children up vegan too (which is where the social bit comes in too, a bit of networking, encouragement, etd).

 

Finally, do people who attended the AGM think there was enough opportunity to ask questions, feel their views were being taken on board? I read that the Council members went off and had their own meeting and so weren't available to have discussions with other members who perhaps wanted to state their views.

 

Nick <dusting himself down> I am encouraged to see that Lesley et al are actively thinking how to improve certain aspects of the AGM - if you moan and don't do anything then it will only be a source of entertainment - discussion is a good precursor to ACTION.

 

These things aren't set in stone . When so few people attend (unless things have changed !) and an effort is being made to accommodate kids, it just seems sensible to me to tag a social on the end before the long (for some ) journey back

 

Cooking demos are not the norm either

 

 

Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than a social event?

 

 

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[Guest guest]

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:39:46 -0000, " Lesley Dove "

<Lesley wrote:

 

>I swear that this childfree thing has reached epidemic proportions

 

I think you'll find that it's child birth which has reached epidemic

proportions, globally speaking!

 

Chris W

[Guest guest]

Not in the UK and Europe, where families with children definitely seem to be turning into an excluded minority group, but I hear that the Italians and many others in Europe are more family-friendly than the Brits.

 

Lesley

 

 

Chris W [chrisw]31 October 2002 10:53 Subject: Re: Re: Further to my bad AGM experienceOn Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:39:46 -0000, "Lesley Dove"<Lesley wrote:>I swear that this childfree thing has reached epidemic proportionsI think you'll find that it's child birth which has reached epidemicproportions, globally speaking!Chris W~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

My sentiments exactly, Chris.

 

xxk@xx

 

Chris W [chrisw]31 October 2002 10:53 Subject: Re: Re: Further to my bad AGM experienceOn Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:39:46 -0000, "Lesley Dove"<Lesley wrote:>I swear that this childfree thing has reached epidemic proportionsI think you'll find that it's child birth which has reached epidemicproportions, globally speaking!Chris W~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

" way to Euston going home after the

telling off from the cookery woman, "

 

I was there, and I witness nothing I'd describe as a telling off. Please

do not misrepresent people, Lesley.

[Guest guest]

Well, it FELT like a telling off to me, she was like some stern old hospital matron or starchy schoolmistress, no offence intended to Angie who is a teacher but comes across much more human!

 

Lesley

 

 

Ian McDonald [ian]31 October 2002 23:47 Subject: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience"way to Euston going home after thetelling off from the cookery woman,"I was there, and I witness nothing I'd describe as a telling off. Pleasedo not misrepresent people, Lesley.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

I try !

 

 

Lesley Dove [Lesley] 01 November 2002 10:21 Subject: RE: Further to my bad AGM experience

 

Well, it FELT like a telling off to me, she was like some stern old hospital matron or starchy schoolmistress, no offence intended to Angie who is a teacher but comes across much more human!

 

Lesley

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>But a daytime " social " should ideally aim to be welcoming for all ages

 

Why? Aren't adults allowed to get together during the daytime?

 

>as it was not a late evening do I would expect that it should be

>automatically family-friendly

 

As it was attached to an AGM I would expect it to automatically be aimed at

an AGM audience.

 

And maybe the Vegan Society realize that as a national organization people

will travel over long distances to get there are so will not be able to

stay for an evening events.

 

>This should not even need to be up for debate, it amazes me that it is

>even a problem for the VS...

 

Are we not confusing the vegan society with an AGM? The vegan society

this... the vegan society that... yet it is an AGM, an event with its own

rules and structure regardless of what the society itself stands for. Even

members of the union of clowns put on suits and have serious discussions.

 

> to be family-friendly with the one and only social gathering they run

> annually.

 

It's a social gathering? I thought it was an AGM? My mind must be going.

 

Maybe the vegan society should run family friendly social events. But that

does not mean an AGM should not have to be co-opted to suit the agenda of

any member (or group thereof) just because it fills a void in the

organizations calendar.

 

I really feel the wrong battle is being held here. Campaign and fight for

more family friendly events and you will probably get a lot of

support. Try and turn something into something it is not and you

won't. It really is as simple as that.

 

I'm bored with this now, I fell that I'm not getting through but there are

so many ways to make the same point.

 

Michael

 

P.S. The union of clowns may or may not exist.

[Guest guest]

Good post Michael. I nodded at most things you said. :-)

 

Janey

 

>But a daytime "social" should ideally aim to be welcoming for all agesWhy? Aren't adults allowed to get together during the daytime?>as it was not a late evening do I would expect that it should be >automatically family-friendlyAs it was attached to an AGM I would expect it to automatically be aimed at an AGM audience.And maybe the Vegan Society realize that as a national organization people will travel over long distances to get there are so will not be able to stay for an evening events.>This should not even need to be up for debate, it amazes me that it is >even a problem for the VS...Are we not confusing the vegan society with an AGM? The vegan society this... the vegan society that... yet it is an AGM, an event with its own rules and structure regardless of what the society itself stands for. Even members of the union of clowns put on suits and have serious discussions.> to be family-friendly with the one and only social gathering they run > annually.It's a social gathering? I thought it was an AGM? My mind must be going.Maybe the vegan society should run family friendly social events. But that does not mean an AGM should not have to be co-opted to suit the agenda of any member (or group thereof) just because it fills a void in the organizations calendar.I really feel the wrong battle is being held here. Campaign and fight for more family friendly events and you will probably get a lot of support. Try and turn something into something it is not and you won't. It really is as simple as that.I'm bored with this now, I fell that I'm not getting through but there are so many ways to make the same point.MichaelP.S. The union of clowns may or may not exist.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -