RE: Chronic hoarseness.

[Guest guest]

Not clear why you say yang xu? Can you explain or give more info?

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Yamin Chehin L.Ac.,

Dipl OM

Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:15 PM

 

Chronic hoarseness.

 

 

 

 

 

Dear practitioners,

 

This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of the

condition is a “feeling of a raw chestâ€. He says that he feels like coughing

up phlegm, though nothing comes out.

 

Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one sided)

and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had a

motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left eye.

 

My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua lou san

modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe condition has

gotten worse in the past month.

 

I’d appreciate your input

 

Thank you!

 

Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure that Yang Xu would present in this type of hoarseness so even if it

underlying I wouldn't attempt to treat it now. In other words, its neither here

nor there. Bei Mu Gua Lou is a good first choice from what you've said. The

choices now are if its a Ban Xia Hou Po Tang (liver qi) or truly stuck phlegm or

your original choice in a bigger quantity. If its really true (potentially

visible) phlegm you could try something like Zhu Li Da Tan Wan. If scours more

of the phlegm out.

I would listen to the sound of the cough, you often can hear the raspiness of

phlegm.

Practically, you can try cupping or gua sha the back.

Is he taking High Blood pressure medication? Often this gives a dry cough that

we can't touch in my experience.

Doug

 

 

, " " wrote:

>

> Not clear why you say yang xu? Can you explain or give more info?

>

>

>

> -Jason

 

>

> Dear practitioners,

>

> This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of the

condition is a “feeling of a raw chestâ€. He says that he feels like coughing

up phlegm, though nothing comes out.

>

> Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one sided)

and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had a

motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left eye.

>

> My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua lou san

modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe condition has

gotten worse in the past month.

>

> I’d appreciate your input

>

> Thank you!

>

> Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M

 

[Guest guest]

have you considered that this might be caused by reflux?

 

Cara

 

On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:12 AM, wrote:

 

> I'm not sure that Yang Xu would present in this type of hoarseness so even if

it underlying I wouldn't attempt to treat it now. In other words, its neither

here nor there. Bei Mu Gua Lou is a good first choice from what you've said. The

choices now are if its a Ban Xia Hou Po Tang (liver qi) or truly stuck phlegm or

your original choice in a bigger quantity. If its really true (potentially

visible) phlegm you could try something like Zhu Li Da Tan Wan. If scours more

of the phlegm out.

> I would listen to the sound of the cough, you often can hear the raspiness of

phlegm.

> Practically, you can try cupping or gua sha the back.

> Is he taking High Blood pressure medication? Often this gives a dry cough that

we can't touch in my experience.

> Doug

>

> , " "

wrote:

> >

> > Not clear why you say yang xu? Can you explain or give more info?

> >

> >

> >

> > -Jason

>

> >

> > Dear practitioners,

> >

> > This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of the

condition is a “feeling of a raw chest”. He says that he feels like coughing up

phlegm, though nothing comes out.

> >

> > Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one

sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had a

motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left eye.

> >

> > My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua lou

san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe condition

has gotten worse in the past month.

> >

> > I’d appreciate your input

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

> > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The single herb Luo han guo could be useful in this kind of situation.

It's made in cubes 95% luo han guo, 5% sugar to drink as a tea a few times

daily.

Just a symptomatic treatment for that, without a full diagnosis,

plus it tastes good.

 

What about pang da hai?

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/theory/herbalmedicine/pang_da_hai_tcm_herbal_databas\

e

 

It's the famous herb used for singers and teachers with hoarse voices....

 

K

 

 

 

> >

> > >

> > > Dear practitioners,

> > >

> > > This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of

> the condition is a “feeling of a raw chest”. He says that he feels like

> coughing up phlegm, though nothing comes out.

> > >

> > > Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one

> sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had

> a motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left

> eye.

> > >

> > > My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua

> lou san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe

> condition has gotten worse in the past month.

> > >

> > > I’d appreciate your input

> > >

> > > Thank you!

> > >

> > > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I will take your word for it that the signs of Yang Vacuity exist. That being

true, I would also accept your diagnosis of dry phlegm (in the lungs I assume,

rather than system wide). I interpret your dry phlegm diagnosis to mean there is

heat in the lungs.

 

So we have the common problem of Heat above - Cold below.

 

I would suggest ignoring the Yang Xu for the most part until the lung condition

is resolved. My reasoning is that the Yang Xu is not directly supporting the

lung condition. I suspect that there is some qi vacuity that goes along with

this making the bei mu gua lou san less than optimal. Bei mu gua lou san is

definitely a good first try though. I would stick with that approach but switch

to bu fei tang with some xing ren added. The herbs in that formula will drive

the qi upwards to the lungs and the moisture will follow.

 

I wouldn't think your first approach to be wrong, it sounds like solid

reasoning, when a patient gets worse that is not always a sign of misdiagnosis,

sometimes a condition is gradually worsening and will continue to do so

regardless of our interventions.

 

~Mark Evans

[Guest guest]

Thank you much for your comments!.

 

Patient presents with Kidney Yang vacuity, to answer that question though

he's had hoarsness on and off for the past 20yrs. Albuterol was the med

recommended by his MD and is not doing the trick. There is no visible

phlegm he does not hear it rattle in the chest either, but he has the

subjective feeling of some phlegm sitting deep in his chest. I will try the

Pang Dai hai as a branch treatment and play around with the formulas

suggested. I truly appreciate your time!

 

Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M

http://www.healingcycles.net

310-280-0438

Office hours:

Mondays 1 to 7pm,

Wednesdays 8am to 7pm,

Fridays and Saturdays 9am to 7pm.

 

 

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On Behalf Of

Thursday, April 01, 2010 4:56 AM

 

Re: Chronic hoarseness.

 

The single herb Luo han guo could be useful in this kind of situation.

It's made in cubes 95% luo han guo, 5% sugar to drink as a tea a few times

daily.

Just a symptomatic treatment for that, without a full diagnosis,

plus it tastes good.

 

What about pang da hai?

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/theory/herbalmedicine/pang_da_hai_tcm_herbal_dat

abase

 

It's the famous herb used for singers and teachers with hoarse voices....

 

K

 

 

 

> >

> > >

> > > Dear practitioners,

> > >

> > > This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of

> the condition is a " feeling of a raw chest " . He says that he feels like

> coughing up phlegm, though nothing comes out.

> > >

> > > Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only

one

> sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient

had

> a motorcycle accident when he was in his 20's and has a scar over the left

> eye.

> > >

> > > My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua

> lou san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe

> condition has gotten worse in the past month.

> > >

> > > I'd appreciate your input

> > >

> > > Thank you!

> > >

> > > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

One other thing to evaluate is the numbness and tingling sensations. Chronic

hoarseness and things like numbness / stumbling can be a possible precursor to

something like ALS - but I hope it's just a side effect of a blood pressure

medicine.

 

Geoff

 

, " Yamin Chehin L.Ac., Dipl OM "

<sanaselena wrote:

>

> Thank you much for your comments!.

>

> Patient presents with Kidney Yang vacuity, to answer that question though

> he's had hoarsness on and off for the past 20yrs. Albuterol was the med

> recommended by his MD and is not doing the trick. There is no visible

> phlegm he does not hear it rattle in the chest either, but he has the

> subjective feeling of some phlegm sitting deep in his chest. I will try the

> Pang Dai hai as a branch treatment and play around with the formulas

> suggested. I truly appreciate your time!

>

> Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M

> http://www.healingcycles.net

> 310-280-0438

> Office hours:

> Mondays 1 to 7pm,

> Wednesdays 8am to 7pm,

> Fridays and Saturdays 9am to 7pm.

>