Guest guest Report post Posted March 24, 2010 I am curious what others use for dosages (or have seen people) for xie huang san in decoction form? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 24, 2010 this is what I have in my computer: XIE HUANG SAN Drain Yellow Powder Shi Gao Gypsum fibrosum 15 g Zhi Zi Fructus Gardeniae jasminoidis 6 g Fang Feng Radix Ledebouriellae sesloidis 12 g Huo Xiang Herba Agastachis 21 g Gan Cao Radix Glycyrrhizae uralensis 9 g anyway- also this kind of reminds me of my comment on your blog the other day: it's like a morph of SHL and Wen bing. is that why you were thinking about it? Cara On Mar 24, 2010, at 1:42 PM, wrote: > I am curious what others use for dosages (or have seen people) for xie huang > san in decoction form? > > - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 25, 2010 Cara, Yes you are right, it does look like a morph between cold damage and warm disease theory. However, this formula was written centuries before warm disease theory was developed. I do not use this treatment strategy often, but here and there I had good success with it. That is, " when there is fire from constraint, discharge it. " I am wondering how a SHL approach would address this lurking fire in the spleen. Any ideas? -Jason On Behalf Of cara anyway- also this kind of reminds me of my comment on your blog the other day: it's like a morph of SHL and Wen bing. is that why you were thinking about it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2010 lurking fire in the spleen.......hmmmmm I am not an expert in this, but I'll give it a compare and contrast a try: I think that the SHL would call it stomach fire- or a yang ming organ pattern. I think the what is interesting to notice about XHS is that the first 2 medicinals, shi gao and zhi zi very cold and draining. the fang feng is basically a neutral herb and then the huo xiang is warm, and fragrant and it's action is to transform dampness. in terms of SHL; there are the rxs that harmonize and they combine warm and cold ingreditents, like ban xia xie xin tang, huang lian tang, etc. but they don't really contain an aromatic component. so- thinking out loud- the SHL does deal with different kids of dynamic tension: heat and cold, dampness and dryness, up and down directionality, but not exactly this dynamic which is to drain and transform and generate fluids. the closest I can think of is gan can xie xin tang which would clear heat and moisten. there may be others, but at the moment it escapes me. Cara O On Mar 25, 2010, at 4:46 PM, wrote: > Cara, > > Yes you are right, it does look like a morph between cold damage and warm > disease theory. However, this formula was written centuries before warm > disease theory was developed. I do not use this treatment strategy often, > but here and there I had good success with it. That is, " when there is fire > from constraint, discharge it. " I am wondering how a SHL approach would > address this lurking fire in the spleen. Any ideas? > > -Jason > > > > On Behalf Of cara > > anyway- also this kind of reminds me of my comment on your blog the other > day: it's like a morph of SHL and Wen bing. is that why you were thinking > about it? > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2010 re: shi gao - my SHL teacher has said that the important thing about shi gao is its acridity, not its coldness. As an acrid and sweet medicinal it breaks up heat stagnation in the Yang Ming channel pattern, but does not drain the Yang Ming organ pattern heat like cold and bitter medicinals, which are downward draining. Bensky's info seems a little confused on this point. RoseAnne On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 7:42 AM, cara <herbbabe wrote: > lurking fire in the spleen.......hmmmmm > > I am not an expert in this, but I'll give it a compare and contrast a > try: I think that the SHL would call it stomach fire- or a yang ming organ > pattern. I think the what is interesting to notice about XHS is that the > first 2 medicinals, shi gao and zhi zi very cold and draining. > the fang feng is basically a neutral herb and then the huo xiang is warm, > and fragrant and it's action is to transform dampness. > > in terms of SHL; there are the rxs that harmonize and they combine warm and > cold ingreditents, like ban xia xie xin tang, huang lian tang, etc. but they > don't really contain an aromatic component. so- thinking out loud- the SHL > does deal with different kids of dynamic tension: heat and cold, dampness > and dryness, up and down directionality, but not exactly this dynamic which > is to drain and transform and generate fluids. the closest I can think of > is gan can xie xin tang which would clear heat and moisten. there may be > others, but at the moment it escapes me. Cara O > > On Mar 25, 2010, at 4:46 PM, wrote: > > > Cara, > > > > Yes you are right, it does look like a morph between cold damage and warm > > disease theory. However, this formula was written centuries before warm > > disease theory was developed. I do not use this treatment strategy often, > > but here and there I had good success with it. That is, " when there is > fire > > from constraint, discharge it. " I am wondering how a SHL approach would > > address this lurking fire in the spleen. Any ideas? > > > > -Jason > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of cara > > > > anyway- also this kind of reminds me of my comment on your blog the other > > day: it's like a morph of SHL and Wen bing. is that why you were thinking > > about it? > > > > > > > > --- > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a > practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2010 Cara, Jason, The Huang lian in Gan cao xie xin tang is possibly too bitter for addition into the Xie huang san substitution... please read pg. 191 Formulas/Strategies 2nd ed. in the comparison with Qing wei san... Wang Xu-Gao reasons why Huang lian is not included in the formula. Xie Huang san does not include bitter and cold medicinals fearing " its lingering (of the qi dynamic that would further trap the lurking heat) " . Xie huang san's composition looks like a modification of Bai hu tang (Shi gao and Gan cao) and Zhi zi dan dou chi tang with the addition of Fang feng (high dosage) and Huo xiang. There has been controversy about the pungent herbs (Fang feng and Huo xiang) fanning the fire of the Spleen/Stomach or gently clearing and dispersing it... What do you all think about Zhu ye shi gao tang as a possible SHL analog in this context? This Shang han lun formula clears lingering heat from the Yang ming and Tai yin conformations, generates fluids and harmonizes the ST.... for " irritability, thirst, parched mouth, lips and throat... " Ye Tian shi called this " situation where " one fears that although the stove no longer smokes, there is still fire within the ashes. " (pg. 156 Formulas/Strategies 2nd ed) Zhu ye, Shi gao, Ren shen, Mai men dong, Zhi ban xia, Zhi gan cao, Jing mi Instead of Zhi zi, clearing heat from the San jiao and HT through the SI, there is Zhu ye/ Dan zhu ye, which has a similar function as a diuretic that expels heat through the SI/UB. The rest of the herbs generate fluids and protect the middle jiao. The major difference that I see is the addition of Fang feng and Huo xiang in Xie huang san. The question is... are these completely necessary? This is the major debate. The author of Xie huang san (Qian Yi) was the great pediatrician who also formulated Liu wei di huang wan. Xie huang san was formulated for children and Zhu ye shi gao tang has also been used for " excess heat in the ST that is accompanied by injury to the Qi and yin. Fine Formulas of Wonderful Efficacy states that it treats " children who are deficient, severely emaciated, and have sparse Qi, where the Qi rebels causing a desire to vomit, and the four extremities are restless and the body hot " . Ye Tian-Shi in Master Ye's Patterns and Treatments in Women's Diseases, indicates its use for " irritability and thirst in pregnancy due to excess fire in the stomach channel " (pg. 157 Formulas/Strategies 2nd ed.) Jason, I'm interested in what you think about Jia jian zhu ye shi gao tang? Source: Formula based on the experience of Ding Gan-Ren (1927) pg. 157 ibid. This formula is named after Zhu ye shi gao tang, but only retains Zhu ye, Shi gao and Gan cao. Here, I can definitely see how this could be a functional modification of the original SHL formula, without sticking completely to all of the ingredients. K On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:42 AM, cara <herbbabe wrote: > lurking fire in the spleen.......hmmmmm > > I am not an expert in this, but I'll give it a compare and contrast a > try: I think that the SHL would call it stomach fire- or a yang ming organ > pattern. I think the what is interesting to notice about XHS is that the > first 2 medicinals, shi gao and zhi zi very cold and draining. > the fang feng is basically a neutral herb and then the huo xiang is warm, > and fragrant and it's action is to transform dampness. > > in terms of SHL; there are the rxs that harmonize and they combine warm and > cold ingreditents, like ban xia xie xin tang, huang lian tang, etc. but they > don't really contain an aromatic component. so- thinking out loud- the SHL > does deal with different kids of dynamic tension: heat and cold, dampness > and dryness, up and down directionality, but not exactly this dynamic which > is to drain and transform and generate fluids. the closest I can think of > is gan can xie xin tang which would clear heat and moisten. there may be > others, but at the moment it escapes me. Cara O > > On Mar 25, 2010, at 4:46 PM, wrote: > > > Cara, > > > > Yes you are right, it does look like a morph between cold damage and warm > > disease theory. However, this formula was written centuries before warm > > disease theory was developed. I do not use this treatment strategy often, > > but here and there I had good success with it. That is, " when there is > fire > > from constraint, discharge it. " I am wondering how a SHL approach would > > address this lurking fire in the spleen. Any ideas? > > > > -Jason > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of cara > > > > anyway- also this kind of reminds me of my comment on your blog the other > > day: it's like a morph of SHL and Wen bing. is that why you were thinking > > about it? > > > > > > > > --- > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a > practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2010 Cara what about Zhishi xia bai guizhi tang 400 29th St. Suite 419 Oakland Ca 94609 alonmarcus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2010 Sure! I assume you are referring to the inclusion of hou po in the rx? I sent this mornings email when i was trying to get my son off to school, so it wasn't that well thought out. but ZZj does use hou po frequently and the zhi shi descends the qi. Here's the ingredients: Zhi Shi Fructus Citri aurantii immaturus Xie Bai Bulbus Allii Gui Zhi Ramulus Cinnamomi cassiae Gua Lou Fructus Trichosanthis Hou Po Cortex Magnoliae officinalis so it's clear that the rx is regulating the qi. but i dont think it address Jason's question of treating heat in the spleen. in fact, this formula is warm. but it does have a kind of nice geometry to it with it's multi-directionality. One significant sign that i rely on when choosing between a shl and wen bing strategy is the coating on the tongue. if it's thicker, then I think often will think of wen bing rx's because they include these groups of aromatic, damp transforming, MW regulating herbs. how do others think about this? Cara On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:46 AM, alon marcus wrote: > Cara > what about Zhishi xia bai guizhi tang > > > 400 29th St. Suite 419 > Oakland Ca 94609 > > > > alonmarcus > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2010 I'm not sure if there is any debate around the inclusion of huo xiang in the formula, it seems fairly important to me. Who says that it is not necessary? As for fang feng the real debate surrounds the dosage and not so much if it is necessary. In regard to lurking fire in the spleen and feng feng, “if the condition is treated simply as a case of Stomach fire to be cleared and drained, and the dispersing action of this herb is omitted, there will be no improvement.” Thanks for pointing out Modified Lophatherum and Gypsum Decoction (jiä jiân zhú yè shí gäo tang), this is a very interesting formula that is very similar to xie huang san. It is more dispersing/discharging as compared to zhu ye shi gao tang, which really does not have this action. Therefore, I would definitely choose Ding Gan-Ren’s formula idea over zhu ye shi gao tang. My 2 cents… -Jason On Behalf Of The major difference that I see is the addition of Fang feng and Huo xiang in Xie huang san. The question is... are these completely necessary? This is the major debate. The author of Xie huang san (Qian Yi) was the great pediatrician who also formulated Liu wei di huang wan. Xie huang san was formulated for children and Zhu ye shi gao tang has also been used for " excess heat in the ST that is accompanied by injury to the Qi and yin. Fine Formulas of Wonderful Efficacy states that it treats " children who are deficient, severely emaciated, and have sparse Qi, where the Qi rebels causing a desire to vomit, and the four extremities are restless and the body hot " . Ye Tian-Shi in Master Ye's Patterns and Treatments in Women's Diseases, indicates its use for " irritability and thirst in pregnancy due to excess fire in the stomach channel " (pg. 157 Formulas/Strategies 2nd ed.) Jason, I'm interested in what you think about Jia jian zhu ye shi gao tang? Source: Formula based on the experience of Ding Gan-Ren (1927) pg. 157 ibid. This formula is named after Zhu ye shi gao tang, but only retains Zhu ye, Shi gao and Gan cao. Here, I can definitely see how this could be a functional modification of the original SHL formula, without sticking completely to all of the ingredients. K On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:42 AM, cara <herbbabe <herbbabe%40verizon.net> > wrote: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2010 ZYSGT is basically mai men dong tang with the addition of shi gao and Zhu Ye and omitting the dates. I think: in the context of the original question about Spleen heat, this formula might be a close match: it addresses heat, thirst and overall dryness, all of which can be sx of spleen heat. But still- it doesn't contain an aromatic component, and so it's mechanism is different. I think you were in Sf with me last year studying with Huang when I asked him about this rx. he considers this to be a formula to be used to improve the constitution after fever or radiation or chemo, when there is still a low grade fever. I think what would be productive is for us to define when we would choose a SHL rx and when we would choose a wen bing rx: what signs and symptoms do we need to focus on to choose the correct treatment strategy? One obvious difference for these 2 formulas is that, besides feverishness, ZYSGT will be more effective for vexation/agitation ( for those of you who know my work, you know I have been preoccupied with this for the past year). Cara On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, wrote: > Cara, Jason, > > The Huang lian in Gan cao xie xin tang is possibly too bitter for addition > into the Xie huang san substitution... > please read pg. 191 Formulas/Strategies 2nd ed. in the comparison with Qing > wei san... > Wang Xu-Gao reasons why Huang lian is not included in the formula. > Xie Huang san does not include bitter and cold medicinals fearing > " its lingering (of the qi dynamic that would further trap the lurking > heat) " . > > Xie huang san's composition looks like a modification of Bai hu tang (Shi > gao and Gan cao) and Zhi zi dan dou chi tang > with the addition of Fang feng (high dosage) and Huo xiang. > > There has been controversy about the pungent herbs (Fang feng and Huo xiang) > fanning the fire of the Spleen/Stomach > or gently clearing and dispersing it... > > What do you all think about Zhu ye shi gao tang as a possible SHL analog in > this context? > > This Shang han lun formula clears lingering heat from the Yang ming and Tai > yin conformations, > generates fluids and harmonizes the ST.... > for " irritability, thirst, parched mouth, lips and throat... " > Ye Tian shi called this " situation where " one fears that although the stove > no longer smokes, > there is still fire within the ashes. " (pg. 156 Formulas/Strategies 2nd ed) > > Zhu ye, Shi gao, Ren shen, Mai men dong, Zhi ban xia, Zhi gan cao, Jing mi > > Instead of Zhi zi, clearing heat from the San jiao and HT through the SI, > there is Zhu ye/ Dan zhu ye, > which has a similar function as a diuretic that expels heat through the > SI/UB. > The rest of the herbs generate fluids and protect the middle jiao. > > The major difference that I see is the addition of Fang feng and Huo xiang > in Xie huang san. > > The question is... are these completely necessary? This is the major > debate. > > The author of Xie huang san (Qian Yi) was the great pediatrician who also > formulated Liu wei di huang wan. > > Xie huang san was formulated for children and Zhu ye shi gao tang has also > been used for " excess heat in the ST > that is accompanied by injury to the Qi and yin. Fine Formulas of Wonderful > Efficacy states that it treats > " children who are deficient, severely emaciated, and have sparse Qi, where > the Qi rebels causing a desire to vomit, > and the four extremities are restless and the body hot " . Ye Tian-Shi in > Master Ye's Patterns and Treatments > in Women's Diseases, indicates its use for " irritability and thirst in > pregnancy due to excess fire in the stomach channel " > (pg. 157 Formulas/Strategies 2nd ed.) > > Jason, I'm interested in what you think about Jia jian zhu ye shi gao tang? > Source: Formula based on the experience of Ding Gan-Ren (1927) pg. 157 > ibid. > > This formula is named after Zhu ye shi gao tang, but only retains Zhu ye, > Shi gao and Gan cao. > Here, I can definitely see how this could be a functional modification of > the original SHL formula, > without sticking completely to all of the ingredients. > > K > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:42 AM, cara <herbbabe wrote: > > > lurking fire in the spleen.......hmmmmm > > > > I am not an expert in this, but I'll give it a compare and contrast a > > try: I think that the SHL would call it stomach fire- or a yang ming organ > > pattern. I think the what is interesting to notice about XHS is that the > > first 2 medicinals, shi gao and zhi zi very cold and draining. > > the fang feng is basically a neutral herb and then the huo xiang is warm, > > and fragrant and it's action is to transform dampness. > > > > in terms of SHL; there are the rxs that harmonize and they combine warm and > > cold ingreditents, like ban xia xie xin tang, huang lian tang, etc. but they > > don't really contain an aromatic component. so- thinking out loud- the SHL > > does deal with different kids of dynamic tension: heat and cold, dampness > > and dryness, up and down directionality, but not exactly this dynamic which > > is to drain and transform and generate fluids. the closest I can think of > > is gan can xie xin tang which would clear heat and moisten. there may be > > others, but at the moment it escapes me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cara O > > > > On Mar 25, 2010, at 4:46 PM, wrote: > > > > > Cara, > > > > > > Yes you are right, it does look like a morph between cold damage and warm > > > disease theory. However, this formula was written centuries before warm > > > disease theory was developed. I do not use this treatment strategy often, > > > but here and there I had good success with it. That is, " when there is > > fire > > > from constraint, discharge it. " I am wondering how a SHL approach would > > > address this lurking fire in the spleen. Any ideas? > > > > > > -Jason > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of cara > > > > > > anyway- also this kind of reminds me of my comment on your blog the other > > > day: it's like a morph of SHL and Wen bing. is that why you were thinking > > > about it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a > > practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2010 Gua lou clears heat that it its main function in this Rx 400 29th St. Suite 419 Oakland Ca 94609 alonmarcus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2010 Alon, Are we talking about Unripe Bitter Orange, Chinese Garlic, and Cinnamon Twig Decoction (zhî shí xiè bái gùi zhï tang)? If so, as far as my understanding goes this is a pattern of yang deficiency. For this type of pattern ZZJ often used the herbal pair gua lou and xie bai – (which appears in many formulas for similar patterns in the JGYL). These two work together to open the chest by unblocking the yang. Although gua lou is cold it is not there to clear heat (this is a yang xu pattern) it works to work WITH xie bai (to open). Gua lou is also important is expelling phlegm. Hence I do not see this formula similar to xie huang san, but would love to hear more… I would like to hear more why you think gua lou’s main function is to clear heat in this formula. IMO, if this was the main function he would choose something like huang qin. -Jason On Behalf Of alon marcus Saturday, March 27, 2010 11:05 AM Re: Xie Huang San Gua lou clears heat that it its main function in this Rx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2010 Yes, Huang qin for venting heat... Huang Huang describes 3 levels of Huang qin combinations for this in " Clinical Application of 50 Medicinals " pg. 280 1. Heat accumulation in the Qi level, use with Chai hu.. ie. Xiao chai hu tang, Da chai hu tang, Chai hu gui zhi gan jiang tang and Chai hu gui zhi tang 2. Heat accumulation in the Blood level, use with Shao yao... Gui zhi Chai hu tang, Huang qin tang, Da chai hu tang, Huang lian e jiao tang, Bie jia jian wan, Da huang zhe chong wan, Ben tun tang, Wang bu liu xing san, Dang gui san 3. Damp-heat obstructing the Center, use with Huang lian... Xie xin tang formulas, Ge gen huang qin huang lian tang, Gan jiang huang qin huang lian ren shen tang, Huang lian e jiao tang What about Chai hu? any others in the Shang han lun? Most pungent herbs fan fire for shang han... How do you see heat being vented other than purging and through urination? Sweat? Ma huang opens pores in the Tai yin, is this considered heat ventilation? Is Shi gao really pungent? (Cara) Cara, I didn't go to Huang Huang's SF seminar. I've been doing Arnaud Versluys' 1.5 year program and reading both of Huang Huang's books. K On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM, < > wrote: > > > Alon, > > Are we talking about Unripe Bitter Orange, Chinese Garlic, and Cinnamon > Twig > Decoction (zhî shí xiè bái gùi zhï tang)? If so, as far as my understanding > goes this is a pattern of yang deficiency. For this type of pattern ZZJ > often used the herbal pair gua lou and xie bai – (which appears in many > formulas for similar patterns in the JGYL). These two work together to open > the chest by unblocking the yang. Although gua lou is cold it is not there > to clear heat (this is a yang xu pattern) it works to work WITH xie bai (to > open). Gua lou is also important is expelling phlegm. > > Hence I do not see this formula similar to xie huang san, but would love to > hear more… > > I would like to hear more why you think gua lou’s main function is to clear > heat in this formula. IMO, if this was the main function he would choose > something like huang qin. > > -Jason > > <%40> > [ <%40>\ ] > On Behalf Of alon marcus > Saturday, March 27, 2010 11:05 AM > <%40> > Re: Xie Huang San > > > Gua lou clears heat that it its main function in this Rx > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2010 This is funny, I can't seem to find this material that you present below in the Chinese version of the book. Did anyone else find it? I agree with Cara, IMO, Huang Qin does not vent, and I would like to see where Huang Huang or someone else says this. Vent (or Wiseman's thrust out(ward)) is a translation ofé€ (tou4). If this book actually says this, I assume it is a translational issue. That is why I was looking in the Chinese version. Yes shi gao is acrid and vents... " dispersing to vent to the exterior and release the muscle layer " -Jason On Behalf Of Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:01 PM Re: Re: Xie Huang San Yes, Huang qin for venting heat... Huang Huang describes 3 levels of Huang qin combinations for this in " Clinical Application of 50 Medicinals " pg. 280 1. Heat accumulation in the Qi level, use with Chai hu.. ie. Xiao chai hu tang, Da chai hu tang, Chai hu gui zhi gan jiang tang and Chai hu gui zhi tang 2. Heat accumulation in the Blood level, use with Shao yao... Gui zhi Chai hu tang, Huang qin tang, Da chai hu tang, Huang lian e jiao tang, Bie jia jian wan, Da huang zhe chong wan, Ben tun tang, Wang bu liu xing san, Dang gui san 3. Damp-heat obstructing the Center, use with Huang lian... Xie xin tang formulas, Ge gen huang qin huang lian tang, Gan jiang huang qin huang lian ren shen tang, Huang lian e jiao tang Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2010 I lost thread somewhere, did not realize we were talking about xie huang san 400 29th St. Suite 419 Oakland Ca 94609 alonmarcus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2010 oops, i thought we were talking about aromatic and bitter combinations 400 29th St. Suite 419 Oakland Ca 94609 alonmarcus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2010 Jason and Cara, my correction....not vent heat, but treat " vexing heat " . pg. 276 " Clnical Application of 50 Medicinals " 3rd edition. Huang Huang. PMPH copyright 2008 " Huang qin mainly treats vexing heat with bleeding, heat diarrhea, heat stuffiness, and heat impediment. Vexing heat is a subjective experience of heat which is difficult to relieve. " For the quote about Huang qin in relation to Chai hu, Shao yao and Huang lian, that's on pgs. 280-281 K "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2010 right! now it makes sense. Cara On Mar 28, 2010, at 12:24 PM, wrote: > Jason and Cara, > my correction....not vent heat, but treat " vexing heat " . > pg. 276 > " Clnical Application of 50 Medicinals " 3rd edition. Huang Huang. PMPH > copyright 2008 > > " Huang qin mainly treats vexing heat with bleeding, heat diarrhea, heat > stuffiness, > and heat impediment. Vexing heat is a subjective experience of heat which > is difficult to relieve. " > > For the quote about Huang qin in relation to Chai hu, Shao yao and Huang > lian, > that's on pgs. 280-281 > > K > > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
