Guest guest Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 I was wondering if anyone knows the properties of bo he gen. thanx, -Jason tel: <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30064918855 & v0=295000 & k0=1975548621> Add me to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 , " " <@c...> wrote: > > > I was wondering if anyone knows the properties of bo he gen. thanx, I've never seen the root of bo he ( " bo he gen " ) listed in a Materia Medica. Maybe it is not regarded to be an effective medicine, or maybe it is simply listed in other books that I haven't explored. The PRC produced a couple expanded texts similar to the Zhong Yao Da Ci Dian with even more traditional drugs listed, so they might be a good place to check. Bo he geng (the stem) is considered to be better at rectifying qi, whereas bo he ye (the leaves) are considered to be better at resolving the exterior. Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 > > > On Behalf Of Eric Brand > Friday, June 10, 2005 3:00 AM > > Re: bo he gen > > , " " > <@c...> wrote: > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone knows the properties of bo he gen. thanx, > > I've never seen the root of bo he ( " bo he gen " ) listed in a Materia > Medica. Maybe it is not regarded to be an effective medicine, or > maybe it is simply listed in other books that I haven't explored. The > PRC produced a couple expanded texts similar to the Zhong Yao Da Ci > Dian with even more traditional drugs listed, so they might be a good > place to check. [Jason] Yeah I can't find it anywhere, even on the internet. It is from a Qing dynasty case study... You are probably right, that it is not that efficacious, but understanding why the author chose that herb versus the leaf or stem (or even another) is important to understanding his thought process... I will keep looking though, thanx, -Jason > > Bo he geng (the stem) is considered to be better at rectifying qi, > whereas bo he ye (the leaves) are considered to be better at resolving > the exterior. > > Eric Brand > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 > Bo he geng (the stem) is considered to be better at rectifying qi, > whereas bo he ye (the leaves) are considered to be better at resolving > the exterior. > > Eric Brand Interesting. Similar to Zi Su Ye and Zi Su Geng. Both are " mints. " On the other hand, it is the opinion of at least one of my teachers that, by the Qing dynasty, CM had become overly theoretical, which is why it needed " pruning " during the 20th century. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 , " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > > Bo he geng (the stem) is considered to be better at rectifying qi, > > whereas bo he ye (the leaves) are considered to be better at resolving > > the exterior. > > > > Eric Brand > > Interesting. Similar to Zi Su Ye and Zi Su Geng. Both are " mints. " On > the other hand, it is the opinion of at least one of my teachers that, > by the Qing dynasty, CM had become overly theoretical, which is why it > needed " pruning " during the 20th century. > > Bob In another interesting example, huo xiang, also a mint (both Pogostemon and Agastache), has different tendencies ascribed to the stem and leaves. The leaves tend to effuse the exterior and the stem tends to harmonize the center. These distinctions may indeed be clinically minor, because they are not made in most basic texts. However, both the bo he and the huo xiang example come from modern textbooks. The huo xiang quote comes from the yellow ren min wei sheng " zhong yao xue " text and the bo he example comes from the zhu yin " zhong yao xue " teacher's text (which, I believe, is nothing more than a traditional character reprint of the PRC 5th edition teacher's text). I just looked up the bo he example to check which text it came from- in a minor correction to my above statement from memory, the actual phrasing is that: " bo he ye is good at effusing sweat; bo he geng tends to rectify qi. " Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 On Jun 10, 2005, at 2:00 AM, Eric Brand wrote: > Bo he geng (the stem) is considered to be better at rectifying qi, > whereas bo he ye (the leaves) are considered to be better at resolving > the exterior. I like Bo He for its systematic correspondences. The stem is metaphorically related to the channels or vessels. It is a means by which nutrients get from the ground to the leaves. So, the stem's medicinal effect centers on the channels and moving Qi (and nutrients and fluids...). The leaf is where the gas exchange happens in the plant, and its effect is where the gas exchange occurs in the human, specifically the Lungs and the skin/exterior. I wish all the herbs explained so well. : ) Might be that this original question about Bo He Gen really is about Be He Geng. -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 > > > On Behalf Of Al Stone > > Might be that this original question about Bo He Gen really is about > Be He Geng. [Jason] It was definitely bo he gen (actually Fresh Bo he gen)... -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 If you look at illustrations of the lung from CM texts they are more or less leaf shaped (each lobe is portrayed as an individual pointed leaf of about the same size). I think the stems would therefore symbolize the axial tubes, the qi guan 气管(qi pipe/trachea) and possibly shi guan 食管 (food pipe/esophagus), and this is where the correspondence comes from, more than a correspondence with " channels " generally. These plants tend to rectify qi for coughing and internal tube issues, versus vines for channel problems, e.g., hong teng, ji xue teng, etc. If you examine leaf veins you will find they ramify the same way bronchi do, though more three demensionally. This also illuminates the phrase hua gai 花盖 " florid canopy " in reference to the lung. Is there a real difference between su ye and su geng in terms of chemistry? Par - " Al Stone " <alstone Friday, June 10, 2005 1:22 PM Re: Re: bo he gen > > On Jun 10, 2005, at 2:00 AM, Eric Brand wrote: > >> Bo he geng (the stem) is considered to be better at rectifying qi, >> whereas bo he ye (the leaves) are considered to be better at resolving >> the exterior. > > I like Bo He for its systematic correspondences. > > The stem is metaphorically related to the channels or vessels. It is > a means by which nutrients get from the ground to the leaves. So, the > stem's medicinal effect centers on the channels and moving Qi (and > nutrients and fluids...). > > The leaf is where the gas exchange happens in the plant, and its > effect is where the gas exchange occurs in the human, specifically > the Lungs and the skin/exterior. > > I wish all the herbs explained so well. : ) > > Might be that this original question about Bo He Gen really is about > Be He Geng. > > -- > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...> wrote: > If you look at illustrations of the lung from CM texts they are more or less > leaf shaped (each lobe is portrayed as an individual pointed leaf of about > the same size). I think the stems would therefore symbolize the axial > tubes, the qi guan æ° " 管(qi pipe/trachea) and possibly shi guan é£ Ÿç®¡ (food > pipe/esophagus), and this is where the correspondence comes from, more than > a correspondence with " channels " generally. These plants tend to rectify qi > for coughing and internal tube issues, versus vines for channel problems, > e.g., hong teng, ji xue teng, etc. If you examine leaf veins you will find > they ramify the same way bronchi do, though more three demensionally. This > also illuminates the phrase hua gai ?±ç? " florid canopy " in reference to the > lung. Par, Good point about the comparisons between plant anatomy and human anatomy. Interestingly, all of the plants we've used as examples are mints. Can anyone think of other types of plants that have such parallels? > Is there a real difference between su ye and su geng in terms of chemistry? Even if they share the same constituents, do they have a similar ratio of different constituents? Many plants have varied levels of chemicals occuring in different parts of the plant. The different quantities of constituents could account for differences in effect. For example, cannabis stalk is indicated in Chinese medicine for disorders of urination, whereas the female flowers are indicated for menstrual pain- the two have the same basic constituents but they occur in dramatically different proportions. It is rather difficult to gather quantitative information about constituents. Many sources only have the constituent list, not the range of %/dry weight that the constituents occur in. This range can vary significantly depending on soil, geography, processing, harvest time, etc. Some of the less-explored plants have only a few quantitative papers published on their constituents, so it is hard to know how much natural variation exists. Eric , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...> wrote: > If you look at illustrations of the lung from CM texts they are more or less > leaf shaped (each lobe is portrayed as an individual pointed leaf of about > the same size). I think the stems would therefore symbolize the axial > tubes, the qi guan æ° " 管(qi pipe/trachea) and possibly shi guan é£ Ÿç®¡ (food > pipe/esophagus), and this is where the correspondence comes from, more than > a correspondence with " channels " generally. These plants tend to rectify qi > for coughing and internal tube issues, versus vines for channel problems, > e.g., hong teng, ji xue teng, etc. If you examine leaf veins you will find > they ramify the same way bronchi do, though more three demensionally. This > also illuminates the phrase hua gai ?±ç? " florid canopy " in reference to the > lung. > > Is there a real difference between su ye and su geng in terms of chemistry? > > Par > - > " Al Stone " <alstone@b...> > > Friday, June 10, 2005 1:22 PM > Re: Re: bo he gen > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2005, at 2:00 AM, Eric Brand wrote: > > > >> Bo he geng (the stem) is considered to be better at rectifying qi, > >> whereas bo he ye (the leaves) are considered to be better at resolving > >> the exterior. > > > > I like Bo He for its systematic correspondences. > > > > The stem is metaphorically related to the channels or vessels. It is > > a means by which nutrients get from the ground to the leaves. So, the > > stem's medicinal effect centers on the channels and moving Qi (and > > nutrients and fluids...). > > > > The leaf is where the gas exchange happens in the plant, and its > > effect is where the gas exchange occurs in the human, specifically > > the Lungs and the skin/exterior. > > > > I wish all the herbs explained so well. : ) > > > > Might be that this original question about Bo He Gen really is about > > Be He Geng. > > > > -- > > > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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