Guest guest Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Hi group- Some how I get sent emails from a place called Chiro deals... at any rate, I thought this *special* was interesting. I did not realize that Chiros get get certified in Acupuncture. Teresa By attending just one weekend a month, you can be among the first D.C.'s to receive the coveted 300 hour Parker College Acupuncture/Chiropractic Diplomate. Be a diplomate in this highly respected Post Graduate Chiropractic Certification Specialty that patients are looking for. Introduce Acupuncture to your practice and Watch it Grow with New Patients!! Don't delay, register for your Beginner or Intermediate Diplomate program today!! Call for more information - 1-800-266-4726 or visit us online at http://www.postgrad.parkercc.edu. The Parker College of Chiropractic/American Academy CA 300 hour Chiropractic/Acupuncture certification program meets the W.H.O. requirements for all health care professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 I wonder where the AACA is accepted.... Plus I could use a brush up on some= of those 71 Meridians... doug Participants who complete the first 100 Hours and Pass the AACA (American= Academy of Chiropractic Acupuncture) exam are Certified in Chiropractic Acupuncture and are eligible for a Fellow in the AACA. Participants who complete 200 Hours and Pass the AACA exam will receive t= he AACA Advanced Intermediate Certificate and will meet W.H.O. Standards. Module 4 – Explanation of the 71 Meridians, Pulse Diagnosis & Workshop, B= ladder Meridian. , " Teresa Hall " <Teresa.bodywork4u@w...> wrote: > > Hi group- > > Some how I get sent emails from a place called Chiro deals... at any rate= , I > thought this *special* was interesting. I did not realize that Chiros ge= t > get certified in Acupuncture. > > Teresa > > > By attending just one weekend a month, you can be among the first D.C.'s = to > receive the coveted 300 hour Parker College Acupuncture/Chiropractic > Diplomate. Be a diplomate in this highly respected Post Graduate > Chiropractic Certification Specialty that patients are looking for. > Introduce Acupuncture to your practice and Watch it Grow with New Patient= s!! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 Parker? Hmm... that's the ticket. Every chiropractor I know that's been through that crap has come back a changed person - canibalizing everything in their path. I think it has something to do with selling your soul or something like that. I'm working on educating the public on the difference between certified acupuncturist and licensed acupuncturist. There are still a lot of people out there who don't know. Geoff >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:39:32 -0800 > " Teresa Hall " <Teresa.bodywork4u >300 hour course > > >Hi group- > >Some how I get sent emails from a place called Chiro deals... at any rate, I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 Dear Geoff, I do not know what Certified Acupuncturist means. Can you explain? Who certifies? The only person I have ever encountered with that title was a D.C., and at the time when I asked his staff what the difference was between CA and LAc, the staff said there was no difference. Julie - " Geoffrey Hudson " <list Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:00 PM Re: 300 hour course > Parker? Hmm... that's the ticket. Every chiropractor I know that's been through that crap has come back a changed person - canibalizing everything in their path. I think it has something to do with selling your soul or something like that. I'm working on educating the public on the difference between certified acupuncturist and licensed acupuncturist. There are still a lot of people out there who don't know. > Geoff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 From past experience in Colorado, " certified acupuncturist " means certified by the chiropractic board. When I first moved to Colorado, school-trained acupuncturists couldn't advertise, but chiropractor 100 hr. trainees could, as 'board-certified acupuncturists'. On Mar 11, 2004, at 2:33 PM, Julie Chambers wrote: > Dear Geoff, > > I do not know what Certified Acupuncturist means. Can you explain? Who > certifies? The only person I have ever encountered with that title was > a > D.C., and at the time when I asked his staff what the difference was > between > CA and LAc, the staff said there was no difference. > > Julie > > > - > " Geoffrey Hudson " <list > > Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:00 PM > Re: 300 hour course > > >> Parker? Hmm... that's the ticket. Every chiropractor I know that's >> been > through that crap has come back a changed person - canibalizing > everything > in their path. I think it has something to do with selling your soul > or > something like that. I'm working on educating the public on the > difference > between certified acupuncturist and licensed acupuncturist. There are > still > a lot of people out there who don't know. >> Geoff >> > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Hi Julie - Yes - just as Z'ev said (as I'm listening to my poor gallbladder squelching...), in the states I've seen, CA's are just certified by the chiro board. Geoff >______________________ > " " <zrosenbe >Re: Re: 300 hour course > > From past experience in Colorado, > " certified acupuncturist " means certified by the chiropractic board. >When I first moved to Colorado, school-trained acupuncturists couldn't >advertise, but chiropractor 100 hr. trainees could, as 'board-certified >acupuncturists'. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Only legal in some states - we are continuing to fight them in NY. Marnae At 04:39 PM 3/10/2004, you wrote: >Hi group- > >Some how I get sent emails from a place called Chiro deals... at any rate, I >thought this *special* was interesting. I did not realize that Chiros get >get certified in Acupuncture. > >Teresa > > >By attending just one weekend a month, you can be among the first D.C.'s to >receive the coveted 300 hour Parker College Acupuncture/Chiropractic >Diplomate. Be a diplomate in this highly respected Post Graduate >Chiropractic Certification Specialty that patients are looking for. >Introduce Acupuncture to your practice and Watch it Grow with New Patients!! >Don't delay, register for your Beginner or Intermediate Diplomate program >today!! Call for more information - 1-800-266-4726 or visit us online at >http://www.postgrad.parkercc.edu. The Parker College of >Chiropractic/American Academy CA 300 hour Chiropractic/Acupuncture >certification program meets the W.H.O. requirements for all health care >professionals. > > > > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including >board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a >free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Licensure titles vary state to state. In CA the title for the L.Ac. used to be C.Ac. (certified). This was later changed to L.Ac. to differentiate the Professional Acupuncturist (i.e. fully trained) from other health care professionals who could legally practice acupuncture with shortened training programs. This is also the case here in NY. Unfortunately, the public has no idea that there is any difference between the two titles. Marnae At 05:33 PM 3/11/2004, you wrote: >Dear Geoff, > >I do not know what Certified Acupuncturist means. Can you explain? Who >certifies? The only person I have ever encountered with that title was a >D.C., and at the time when I asked his staff what the difference was between >CA and LAc, the staff said there was no difference. > >Julie > > >- > " Geoffrey Hudson " <list > >Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:00 PM > Re: 300 hour course > > > > Parker? Hmm... that's the ticket. Every chiropractor I know that's been >through that crap has come back a changed person - canibalizing everything >in their path. I think it has something to do with selling your soul or >something like that. I'm working on educating the public on the difference >between certified acupuncturist and licensed acupuncturist. There are still >a lot of people out there who don't know. > > Geoff > > > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including >board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a >free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 , Marnae Ergil <marnae@p...> wrote: > Only legal in some states - we are continuing to fight them in NY. > > Marnae > While I do not agree that western trained / licensed practitioners should be able to practice acupuncture with a 100 or 300 hour course, it is interesting to note that many Chinese trained TCM physicians have only 1 semester of acupuncture training. That is the case with several of the Chinese instructors at PCOM and is probably the reason why they heavily emphasize herbal treatments and that the acupuncture treatments that they prescribe are almost always the same group of points in some combination or another. They are not acupuncturists; they are herbalists who took 1 semester of acupuncture. Yet they have national certification for acupuncture and would get licensed in various states to do acupuncture, whereas in some states they would not even be allowed to practice herbs, depending on laws. Furthermore, I am not sure if it is still this way in China, but it used to be that one could not pick one's own major in college. That was decided by the state. The result is that a large portion of college graduates in China are in fields not of their choice / passion. For example, one of the Chinese instructors at PCOM had TCM as his 5th choice of study, but that it was he got stuck with. So, not only do many Chinese TCM physicians have a minimal training in acupuncture, many of them lack the passion that one would have if it were their given field. Therefore, these people may not be motivated to do a great job or to explore the validity of channel theory or to do research, etc. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Parker College tried to come into Atlanta w/ the 300 hr couse. Ga law requires that you be licensed in the State to insert needles. The instructors were out of state, so our Acu board wrote the chiro board and informed them that couse would be in volation of Ga law. The sad part of this saga was we checked on the instructors credentials turned out he was NCCAOM. We thought it was an ethical voliation but NCCAOM never followed up on it. Warren Cargal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 At 09:17 PM 3/12/2004, you wrote: > , Marnae Ergil <marnae@p...> >wrote: > > Only legal in some states - we are continuing to fight them in NY. > > > > Marnae > > > >While I do not agree that western trained / licensed practitioners >should be able to practice acupuncture with a 100 or 300 hour course, >it is interesting to note that many Chinese trained TCM physicians >have only 1 semester of acupuncture training. I think that the issue here is not so much " acupuncture training " hours as the overall number of hours of CM education. The latest revision (1997) of the CM curriculum in China for individuals in the Zhong Yi department (as opposed to the zhen jiu xue department) has only 117 hours of straight " acupuncture / zhen jiu xue " . but that does not include any of the underlying theory of CM which, IMO is as important to doing a good acupuncture treatment as it is to creating a good formula. Is it really possible, in 300 hours, to teach even what we teach in our first year of school - excluding herb classes? This includes: Fundamental Theory, Diagnosis, Pattern ID, Tui Na, Qi Gong, Channels & Points and Beginning Needle Technique? By most standards, this alone is about 360 hours and does not really even begin to help a practitioner really create a diagnosis using CM thought processes or to be able to do much more than put a needle in a point without much technique. Even if the Chinese trained clinicians have only " 117 " hours of " acupuncture " training, that training, combined with all of their theory makes them much better acupuncturists than someone with only 300 hours of training that includes no theory. This is not to say that I do not think that there is more to learn about acupuncture than can be taught in 117 hours of classtime, the average CM program in the US has a lot more than that. We have about 370 hours of straight " acupuncture " courses, exclusive of theory. I just finished listening to a Blue Poppy CE course on Miriam Lee's 10 great needles. First let me say that I thought it was one of the best 1 hour acupuncture lectures I have heard - kudos! Some of the interesting points that Honora made were 1) Miriam Lee was an acupuncturist - she rarely prescribed an herbal formula and yet 2) she found that by combining just a few major points (ST 36, Sp 6, LI 11, Lu7 and LI 4) with a few other appropriate points to focus a treatment almost anything could and was treated. The point was that it was not so much exactly which point was chosen but how it was needled, how it was combined and what the intent was (Bob please let me know if you disagree with my summary here). In other words, if your diagnosis is correct (i.e. you have a good theoretical understanding of what is going on) you can treat almost anything with just a few points. One of my beefs with a lot of acupuncturists is that they feel that what they " learn in school " is not adequate to treat what presents in front of them and so they go in search of some " magic needle " that will work better than the fundamental stuff. This is true of herbalists too. Really what they need to do is become really, really good at what they do and understand it better before they go looking for the magic cure. >That is the case with >several of the Chinese instructors at PCOM and is probably the reason >why they heavily emphasize herbal treatments and that the acupuncture >treatments that they prescribe are almost always the same group of >points in some combination or another. They are not acupuncturists; See above. >they are herbalists who took 1 semester of acupuncture. Yet they have >national certification for acupuncture and would get licensed in >various states to do acupuncture, whereas in some states they would >not even be allowed to practice herbs, depending on laws. >Furthermore, I am not sure if it is still this way in China, but it >used to be that one could not pick one's own major in college. That >was decided by the state. The result is that a large portion of >college graduates in China are in fields not of their choice / >passion. For example, one of the Chinese instructors at PCOM had TCM >as his 5th choice of study, but that it was he got stuck with. So, >not only do many Chinese TCM physicians have a minimal training in >acupuncture, many of them lack the passion that one would have if it >were their given field. Therefore, these people may not be motivated >to do a great job or to explore the validity of channel theory or to >do research, etc. To a large extent China remains this way. The large majority of students who study Chinese medicine indeed do not want to be studying. But you have to remember that this is China - it is not the land of free choice that we have here. Just having the opportunity to go to College is a really big deal and so, even if it is not your original choice, it is certainly better than the alternative! During my time in China one of the most interesting things to watch was the creation of the " CM doctor " out of student who came in relatively uninterested. Over the course of the 5 years they are in school many of these students really do see the qualities of CM that so interest us. And, because many of them originally wanted to be in " Western " medical school they actually are very interested in looking at " validity " and doing research. This is exactly how they will be able to move up in their field and gain respect for what they do - by working to truly understand it and integrate. Of course there is always the mediocre student/mediocre physician - but isn't this true everywhere? >Brian C. Allen Just my late night thoughts. Marnae >Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including >board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a >free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 I've had to bite my tongue a few times while my students waxed about the genius of some Chinese teacher who told me the day before that they essentially learned acupuncture while being a teacher at my school. Or the " world famous " doctor who speciallized in one disease not the scope of the field. But the other side is that many of my colleagues were MD's in China, working in hospitals, prescribing drugs, treating real diseases with consequense and now find themselves in the USA working in small colleges that are always crying poverty and pay accordingly. The adoration of their Western students maybe a little consolation. I also do have several collegues who were acupuncture specialists in China. doug > > >That is the case with > >several of the Chinese instructors at PCOM and is probably the reason > >why they heavily emphasize herbal treatments and that the acupuncture > >treatments that they prescribe are almost always the same group of > >points in some combination or another. They are not acupuncturists; > >Brian C. Allen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 she rarely prescribed an herbal formula >>>Miriam used patents extensively. The majority of her patients got patent meds. So it is not true she did not use herbs. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Thanks Alon - I never studied with her. Marnae At 01:43 PM 3/13/2004, you wrote: >she >rarely prescribed an herbal formula > >>>Miriam used patents extensively. The majority of her patients got > patent meds. So it is not true she did not use herbs. >Alon > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 In a message dated 3/11/04 12:25:44 AM, Teresa.bodywork4u writes: > > By attending just one weekend a month, you can be among the first D.C.'s to > receive the coveted 300 hour Parker College Acupuncture/Chiropractic > Diplomate. Be a diplomate in this highly respected Post Graduate > Chiropractic Certification Specialty that patients are looking for. > Introduce Acupuncture to your practice and Watch it Grow with New Patients!! > Don't delay, register for your Beginner or Intermediate Diplomate program > today!! Call for more information - 1-800-266-4726 or visit us online at > http://www.postgrad.parkercc.edu. The Parker College of > Chiropractic/American Academy CA 300 hour Chiropractic/Acupuncture > certification program meets the W.H.O. requirements for all health care > professionals. > > What is funny about this is that the WHO document talks about western physicians, not doctors or Chiropractic or other health care providers, so Chiro does not count here. I was at the WHO meeting in Milan that made the WHO document, and DC's and ND's and other folks besides MD's and DO's with unlimited licenses were not considered physicians and need to take the entire course work for acupuncture. In fact, doctors who take these short courses are not considered acupuncturists, medical or whatever, unless they took to full 1500 hour (which is the 2000 hour program minus western sciences) program. The 200 hour course provided for " qualified physicians " acupuncture " limited training in ACU as a technique for thier clinical work " , which is not defined as an acupuncturist of any sort. At the meeting, " qualified physicians " meant those with an unlimited license to practice and was put there so there was an ethical requirement of some sort for physicians who can legally do anything to anyone with any or no training, so that they had at least a requirement of an awareness of what it was they were doing to people. I think the WHO has the whole booklet available as a PDF, but I don't ahve the address off hand. DAvid Molony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 > I think the WHO has the whole booklet available as a PDF, but I don't ahve > the address off hand. > DAvid Molony > http://www.who.int/medicines/library/trm/acupuncture/who-edm-trm-99-1/who-ed m-trm-99-1en.shtml Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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