Tonifying cancers

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

 

My 86 y/o male patient is being given a 7mg depot shot of Lupron monthly by his M.D. to prevent or control (the doc says control) prostate and bladder cancer. The patient is presenting with loss of energy, back pain, leg

weakness, constipation and erectile dysfx (yes, he's still active); all side effects of Lupron. He wants me to give him more energy, strengthen his legs and enable him to perform. If I strengthen his yang and jing am I not defeating the purpose of the Lupron, which is to limit the hormone production, and thereby the potential growth of cancers. Further, are we jeopardizing the health of say, breast cancer survivors, if we prescribe Liu Wei Di Huang Wan or its like for yin xu?

 

Thank you all for your input on this.

 

Jean

[Guest guest]

all side effects of Lupron

>>He must have cancer, you do not give it to prevent cancer

alon

[Guest guest]

Here's an article by Subhuti Dharmananda that explains alot about

cancer and its treatment. Hope it helps:

 

CAUSE OF CANCER

Modern medicine attributes most cases of cancer to changes in DNA

that reduce or eliminate the normal controls over cellular growth,

maturation, and programmed cell death. These changes are more likely

to occur in people with certain genetic backgrounds (as illustrated

by the finding of genes associated with some cases of cancer and

familial prevalence of certain cancers) and in persons infected by

chronic viruses (e.g., viral hepatitis may lead to liver cancer; HIV

may lead to lymphoma). The ultimate cause, regardless of genetic

propensity or viruses that may influence the risk of the cancer, is

often exposure to carcinogenic chemicals (including those found in

nature) and/or to radiation (including natural cosmic and earthly

radiation), coupled with a failure of the immune system to eliminate

the cancer cells at an early stage in their multiplication. The

immunological weakness might arise years after the exposure to

chemicals or radiation.

In the field of traditional Chinese medicine, which evolved its

ideas over many centuries, the genetic propensities and the impact

of viruses and radiation could not be known: these are 20th century

discoveries. However, the Chinese have understood that something

from the environment, some kind of toxin, was a likely contributor

to development of the disease. Perhaps more importantly for our

current concerns, the experience of Chinese doctors points to

emotional contributions to the development of cancer. In particular,

depression (as in repressed anger), anxiety (worry, fearfulness, and

excess circular thinking), and grief (usually because of death of a

loved one) are thought to result in stagnation of circulation. If

this circulatory disturbance continues, there may be a local

accumulation-eventually to become the tumor mass-at the weak point

in the body. An underlying weakness in an organ or other body tissue

is what allows the problem of stagnancy in circulation to eventually

overcome normal patterns of cellular growth. Thus, a tumor, or some

other type of excessive cellular activity, occurs.

Stagnation and accumulation, as described in this Chinese model, do

not always result in malignancy (one may experience a benign lump),

but if the center of stagnancy becomes " toxic, " it will produce

either an abscess (growth of bacterial cells) or a tumor (growth of

one type of body cells). Abscesses and tumors occur by different

processes, but there is a frequent overlap in the successful Chinese

medical approaches to treating bacterial infections that cause

abscesses and in treating tumors.

Chinese doctors interviewing patients who have unusual swellings

find a high frequency of reports of depression, anxiety, grief, and

similar emotional states. Although it might be argued that these

conditions arose because of the cancer, Chinese doctors are

convinced that they existed prior to development of cancer. This

conception follows the underlying principles of Chinese physiology,

developed over 2,000 years ago. Modern researchers in America have

noted a similar relationship between depression and cardiovascular

disease, another type of circulatory disorder.

Diseases caused by emotional conditions are said to be of internal

origin and are distinguished from those diseases of external origin,

such as epidemic infections. Depression, anxiety, suppressed anger,

and other emotional conditions are traditionally treated in China

not with anything like the modern Western technique of

psychotherapy, but rather, through reliance on the family and

society, and guidance towards restoring for the individual the long-

held views on how to live (in ways that help unfold the persons true

destiny, overcoming the obstruction that causes emotional stagnation

and physical disease). In addition, there are herbal remedies that

help relieve the physiological correlates (altered patterns of

circulation) to the emotional conditions and some that are believed

to address the psychological processes directly.

The " toxic " aspect of tumor growth is the aspect that is introduced

from the outside. In modern terms, chemicals in the environment

(from natural or man-made sources), components of cigarette smoke,

and viruses all count as examples of the toxins depicted by

traditional Chinese doctors. In the Oriental context, a toxin is

anything that transforms a simple, functional or organic abnormality

into a difficult-to-control disease. Long before the formal science

of epidemiology, Chinese physicians noted that cancers were more

prevalent in some geographical areas than others and attributed this

to substances in the environment (e.g., in the drinking water) or to

unique characteristics of the local diet. We now know that in

addition to ingestion of carcinogens, deficiencies of certain

nutrients (such as selenium and flavonoids) that affect a cell's

carcinogen susceptibility and that are important to the immune

system, may have also been behind regional high incidence of cancers.

TREATMENT

Cancer has long been treated by Chinese doctors, with herb therapies

being the main protocol. The treatments varied according to the

preferences of the doctor for certain theories of cancer etiology

and resolution, and for certain herbs, as well as according to the

cancer site and stage of development. The effectiveness of the

treatments was not well-established prior to the introduction of

clinical trials. Today, the herbal therapies are most frequently

coordinated with Western medical approaches that may include

surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation, as deemed suitable for the

type of cancer.

The herb prescriptions that were given to cancer patients as the

sole therapy primarily contain herbs that are said to remove or

counteract toxins, remove or shrink accumulations, restore normal

circulation, and promote the functions of the internal organs. When

Western medical therapies are applied, the toxin-removing and

accumulation shrinking therapies become less important, because the

Western methods often accomplish the same goal (though it may be the

case that using both together will get a better result). As an

adjunct to Western medical interventions, Chinese herbs are directed

at restoring normal circulation (something that the Western

therapies are not designed to do) and protecting the body from

damaging effects of those therapies (or treating specific side

effects, if they have occurred). To prevent a recurrence of the

disease after the therapies have been apparently successful, it is

considered important for the person to reduce one's negative

emotional influences as well as to strengthen any weak areas of the

body so that they are no longer as susceptible to abnormality.

TOXIN-REMOVING THERAPY

An example of an herb used to counteract toxins is sophora root.

There are two species used. One is from Sophora flavescens, called

kushen by the Chinese, meaning the bitter root of miraculous effect

(in comparison to the relatively sweet root of miraculous effect,

renshen: ginseng). It contains alkaloids of the matrine series,

which, in laboratory mice, have been shown to inhibit the growth of

sarcoma-180 (a cancer strain commonly used in experiments). The

therapeutic index of the sophora root is 7.8 times higher than a

common chemotherapuetic agent called mitomycin C (meaning that it

takes 7.8 times as much of the latter to have the same effect).

Sophora is used clinically to treat a wide range of ailments, but in

terms of its purported " antitoxin " action, it is used to treat

dysentery, parasites (trichomoniasis), skin diseases, acute

hepatitis, and chronic bronchitis. It is also applied topically with

good effect for vaginal trichomonas and for Mycobacterium leprae,

the organism that causes leprosy. The other species is Sophora

subprostrata, called shandougen by the Chinese, meaning the root of

the mountain bean. Sophora is in the legume family and produces bean

pods; this species grows in the mountains and also contains matrine

series alkaloids. It has similar medical applications.

These two species are of particular interest because they inhibit

tumors without inhibiting the immune system, a problematic aspect of

nearly all chemotherapy agents. To the contrary, experiments show

that they can enhance immune functions, including increasing

leukocyte (white blood cell) numbers and promotion of the peripheral

immune system responses. The toxicity is quite low, and there are

only slight adverse responses when the dosage is especially high.

Presently, there is no clear evidence that these herbs, when used

alone, can cure any human cancers. However, they appear to

contribute significantly to the curative effectiveness of complex

herb formulas and combination treatments of herbs and Western

therapies. There are at least two dozen other herbs that have

similar activity (inhibiting cancer, promoting immune functions),

with various types of active components; and several such herbs are

combined together in the production of a complex formula used in

clinical practice.

An example of another toxin-removing herb that is often used for

cancer is oldenlandia. The Chinese call it baihuasheshecao,

describing its white flowers (baihua) and calling it a snake (she)

weed (cao), possibly because of early use as a remedy for snake

bites. When cancer cells are grown in culture, the addition of

oldenlandia extract significantly reduces the cells rapid growth

rate. For general use in removing toxins, this herb can be applied

successfully in cases of appendicitis, peritonitis (inflammation of

the abdominal lining), pelvic inflammatory disease, urinary tract

infection, mumps, hepatitis, chronic bronchitis, and many other

infectious disorders. The herb is added at high dosage (one to two

ounces per day) to herb formulas for treating cancer. It has been

used, for example, to treat cervical, breast, and rectal tumors.

RESOLVING ACCUMULATIONS

In an effort to remove accumulations (cell masses, such as a tumor),

an herb that is often utilized is curcuma, a member of the ginger

family. There are two species commonly used in cancer therapy that,

like ginger, have a spicy taste. Curcuma aromatica is called yujin

by the Chinese, after its affect on stagnation (yu means stagnation;

jin refers to the golden color and to its ability to treat the

lungs, the organ system associated with the metal element, for which

gold is a symbol). It contains aromatic volatile oils that help to

remove excessive lipids from the blood, reduce aggregation of

platelets (sticking of the blood cells to form masses), and reduce

inflammation. In addition, the herb's oily components enhance

fibrinolysis (the process that breaks down fibrous proteins, such as

those that protect tumors from the immune system), and promote

secretion of bile, which helps to clear congestion of the liver,

promote digestion of fats, and aid intestinal peristalsis

(intestinal movements that help evacuation). Thus, these essential

oils help to get rid of many types of accumulation.

The other species is Curcuma zedoaria, known by the Chinese name

ezhu (the origin of this name is obscure). It likewise contains

volatile oils. When the extract is injected into mice that have

tumors, it is found that the tumors shrink. It is believed that the

enhanced fibrinolysis and other processes stimulated by the volatile

oils allow immune system cells to enter the interior of the tumor

and consume and destroy the tumor cells. One of the main clinical

uses of zedoaria is to treat cervical cancer, with the oil injected

into the tumor mass (which is accessible through the vaginal

opening).

These herbs also have low toxicity. Studies of liver enzymes and of

kidney function in patients given large doses of the herb did not

show abnormalities. In a few individuals, increased bowel movements

may occur.

According to Chinese dogma and experience, salty materials help to

soften up and dissolve masses that form in the body. One of the

popular materials to use for such purposes is oyster shell. These

shells contain calcium salts and complex proteins. Calcium has been

shown to enhance immune functions; the complex proteins may interact

with cell surface receptors and alter the signals that tell cancer

cells to continually reproduce. Seaweeds are used similarly: their

effects may rely primarily on sulfated polysaccharides rather than

calcium for promoting immune system functions. Kelp (called

laminaria) and sea tangle (called sargassum), are examples of

seaweeds frequently used for softening masses.

CIRCULATION NORMALIZING

We know now that a tumor develops its own blood supply system (as a

branch from the normal supply), but it is a poorly developed

circulation, with the cancer cells surviving with low oxygen: such

cells are less susceptible to the effects of radiation than those

cells that have adequate levels of oxygen. One method of cancer

therapy now being investigated is inhibition of angiogenesis (blood

vessel formation), which might be accomplished by various cartilage

sources, including that from shark and calf, and from compounds of

similar structure found in the sea cucumber. Additionally, the blood

vessels of surrounding normal tissues are eliminated or displaced by

the tumor, thus weakening the surrounding tissues, and making them

more susceptible to replacement by tumor mass.

There are many other changes in the blood circulation in those with

cancer. According to studies in China, about 90% of cancer patients

have abnormal microcirculation patterns (this is circulation through

capillary beds) and most cancer patients have high fibrinogen levels

in the blood and higher than normal coagulability of blood. Tumors

are often surrounded by a fibrin coating that prevents immune cells

of the blood stream from entering and destroying the tumor. Since

the combination of viscous blood and fibrin coating hinder the

penetration of tumors by antineoplastic drugs and by active immune

cells, blood-activating herbs (herbs that restore normal blood

conditions and circulation patterns) are usually prescribed to

cancer patients in order to promote the positive effects of cancer

therapies while limiting their negative impacts.

One of the most serious developments for a cancer patient is

metastasis from the original site to other body sites, as this

process reduces the potential to remove the cancer by surgery or

local radiation. For metastatic cancer cells to attach to tissues,

so as to develop a new tumor mass, they require the assistance

of " sticky " materials from the blood.

A group of herbs classified as blood-activating herbs are used to

counter all of these problems. Some blood-activating herbs also have

direct cancer-inhibiting actions (just as the herbs for removing

toxins do) and others promote immune system attack against cancer

cells. In addition, blood-activating herbs reduce the tendency to

form adhesions and excessive scar tissue following surgery and

reduce some of the side effects of chemotherapy, such as hepatitis

and pulmonary fibrosis.

Curcuma and zedoaria, mentioned above because of their mass-reducing

quality, are also categorized as herbs for activating blood

circulation. Chinese doctors also often rely on two other herbs:

salvia and sparganium. Salvia is known to the Chinese as danshen,

meaning the cinnabar-colored herb of miraculous effect. This herb is

used more than almost any of the other blood-vitalizing herbs for

reducing the stickiness of the blood, and increasing circulation to

areas where circulation has become restricted. Chinese doctors

prescribe salvia in the treatment and prevention of heart attack,

stroke, and peripheral vascular occlusion. Sparganium is known to

the Chinese as sanleng, referring to its appearance as a plant made

up of straws (leng), of which there are most often three (san). This

herb is frequently combined with zedoaria to treat firm lumps (as

opposed to the soft lumps such as found in lipomas). In the case of

a person undergoing radiation therapy, an herb for promoting blood

circulation that is relied on to make the cancer more susceptible to

destruction is tien-chi ginseng, known by the Chinese name of sanqi,

meaning three and seven (referring to the leaf pattern).

 

QI: A BASIC CONCEPT IN RELATION TO CANCER

Qi (pronounced " chee " with emphasis on the " ch " ), is a term used by

Chinese doctors to describe the source of nutritive substances and

metabolic activities in the body. Qi is derived primarily from

foods, but some is also present in the body as essential essence at

birth and some is acquired through breathing.

According to the Chinese concept, the patterns of interaction

between the various parts of the body can be charted as a

circulation of qi. Acupuncturists, in their study of the medical

technique, memorize the main interaction channels-meridians-of the

body. By stimulating a point or region of this interaction channel,

one can have an influence elsewhere, that is, somewhere along the

pathway of qi circulation that might be less accessible to the

practitioner (such as deep within the body). This concept helps

explain how, for example, an acupuncturist can insert a needle in

the hand and have an effect on the intestines. From the Western

point of view, the needle causes a release of substances that affect

the nervous system and the hormones; the different points cause

different effects because they generate more of one or another of

the transmitting substances, or because of proximity to a certain

part of the nervous system or to certain blood vessels.

Depression, anxiety, and grief are examples of emotions associated

with impairment of action. A person who is depressed, for example,

may be very dissatisfied with the life he or she is leading, but be

unable to take any action to change it. The person who suffers from

anxiety may have a particular goal in mind, but, upon taking a step

towards it, is turned away at the slightest provocation or

indication of trouble. The person suffering from grief may feel that

there is no point in pursuing any of the usually pleasurable

activities as it seems inappropriate to their state of mind. People

with anxiety, depression, and grief may complain of lack of energy

or vitality. From the Oriental perspective, this is the binding up

of qi, disrupting its normal pattern of circulation.

A common modern medical treatment for these mind/body conditions is

to apply sedatives. At first, it would seem strange to use a

sedating agent to treat someone whose actions are impaired and who

feels lethargic as a result, but, it often works-at least

temporarily. This is because the qi is binding up, and by relaxing

(sedating) it, it can unwind and flow more freely. The bound qi is

like someone who exercises too vigorously without stretching first

and the muscles cramp up so that there is no further motion. The

basic energy to move exists, but it has become uncoordinated, bound

up, and solid: a sedative (in this case, a muscle relaxant) will

reduce the energy to those bound muscles, so that motion can take

place again: relaxation leads to motion, not stillness.

The qi that becomes bound up by emotion can form a mass that could

occur in many areas, depending on which part of the body is

susceptible, due either to some previous experience or to an inborn

pattern (including genetics). However, qi stagnation is not enough

to produce cancer. Breast swelling, one of the signs of qi

stagnation, is far from breast tumors, and constipation (another

sign of qi stagnation) is far from intestinal cancer.

From the qi stagnation, there can occur a build-up of fluids,

sometimes an excess growth of cells. Thus, breasts may develop the

benign lumps and intestines may develop polyps or local pockets of

inflammation. The swelling, which is sometimes palpable, is said by

Chinese doctors to correspond to entanglement of qi and an

accumulation of phlegm (this is the general term for most substances

in the body that have a sticky or mucus-like nature and are not very

hard to the touch but are less fluid than water). Still, this is not

a tumor.

Again, if this condition persists, the blood circulation to the area

of accumulation will eventually become disrupted. The capillary beds

will have to bend and turn and develop abnormally to work around the

swelling. This can cause the soft mass to become more firm. It is

said that the blood circulation in the area has stagnated. Instead

of coursing through normal tissues, it must slow, and be diverted

around areas of accumulation-and thus the stagnant blood accumulates

there too. Nonetheless, this is not a tumor, though at this point a

lump or mass might be detected by modern medical techniques (if not

by simpler methods) and a doctor may be concerned about the nature

of the problem.

Now, enter the complicating factor of a " toxin. " As described

previously, the toxin can be a chemical, a virus, or some other

influence that transforms ordinary irregularities in the body to

more active and dangerous ones. We know now that viruses and

chemicals can enter the body at one time and not yield a cancer

until much later. Thus, the toxin need not enter after a lump has

formed. Rather, it might be present before the lump is formed and

only display its effects once the accumulation is there. At the

point when the various conditions (qi stagnation, accumulation of

fluids, toxin) come together, a tumor does form.

Thus, cancer prevention, from the Oriental view, would involve early

treatment of depression, anxiety, grief, or other strong emotional

factors that bind up qi circulation, avoidance of excessive phlegm

substance in the body so that accumulation will not proceed,

promotion of blood circulation so that stagnation will be minimized,

and elimination of toxins.

Once a cancer is diagnosed, the rule of thumb in Western medicine,

as well as Oriental medicine, is to allow it no more time to grow.

Thus, modern therapies are initiated very soon after the diagnosis.

In most cases, there is no time to try an alternative therapy first

to see if it works, and, if not, go on to the more orthodox modern

methods. Therefore, most of the time Chinese medical therapy is

applied to assist the modern therapies. When the modern therapy is

finished, it is a good idea-essential, even-to look again at

prevention, because cancer recurrence is quite common.

HERBS COMMONLY USED IN ANTICANCER FORMULAS

Examples of Antitoxin Herbs Used in Cancer Therapy

Isatis

Paris

Solanum

Wasp's nest

Lonicera

Prunella

Sophora

Wikstroemia

Oldenlandia

Scutellaria

Viola

Examples of Mass-Reducing Herbs Used in Cancer Therapy

Chih-ko Laminaria

Curcuma Sargassum

Fritillaria Oyster shell

Examples of Blood-Vitalizing Herbs Used in Cancer Therapy

Pangolin scales

Frankincense

Sparganium

Carthamus

Myrrh

Zedoaria

Curcuma

Persica

Salvia

Examples of Tonic Herbs Used in Cancer Therapy

Adenophora

Cordyceps

Glehnia

Licorice

Astragalus

Coriolus

Gynostemma

Rehmannia

Codonopsis

Ganoderma

Jujube

Ophiopogon

 

Atti

 

, " Jean Painter "

<harmony@i...> wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> My 86 y/o male patient is being given a 7mg depot shot of Lupron

monthly by his M.D. to prevent or control (the doc says control)

prostate and bladder cancer. The patient is presenting with loss of

energy, back pain, leg

> weakness, constipation and erectile dysfx (yes, he's still

active); all side effects of Lupron. He wants me to give him more

energy, strengthen his legs and enable him to perform. If I

strengthen his yang and jing am I not defeating the purpose of the

Lupron, which is to limit the hormone production, and thereby the

potential growth of cancers. Further, are we jeopardizing the

health of say, breast cancer survivors, if we prescribe Liu Wei Di

Huang Wan or its like for yin xu?

>

> Thank you all for your input on this.

>

> Jean

[Guest guest]

, " Jean Painter " wrote:

> My 86 y/o male patient is being given a 7mg depot shot of Lupron

monthly by his M.D. to prevent or control (the doc says control)

prostate and bladder cancer. The patient is presenting with loss of

energy, back pain, leg weakness, constipation and erectile dysfx

(yes, he's still active); all side effects of Lupron. He wants me to

give him more energy, strengthen his legs and enable him to perform.

If I strengthen his yang and jing am I not defeating the purpose of

the Lupron, which is to limit the hormone production, and thereby

the potential growth of cancers. Further, are we jeopardizing the

health of say, breast cancer survivors, if we prescribe Liu Wei Di

Huang Wan or its like for yin xu? >>>

 

 

Jean:

 

While there is a danger of tonifying the cancer (I have seen other

practitioners do it with poorly applied acupuncture and reiki), you

can do some tonification on your patient.

 

The first rule in the acupuncture treatment of cancer patients is

that you need to be mindful to NOT tonify any channel that directly

leads to the cancer directly and promotes the growth. So in this

case for prostate and bladder, you would not tonify Sp.6--in fact,

you would sedate it to inhibit the cancer movement since all three

channels have connections that feed into CV1. But you can tonify LI4

deeply to send down vital yang qi.

 

Herbs are less of a problem since they are digested and distributed

through the digestional tract.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

, " " <

attiliodalberto> wrote:

 

> One of the most serious developments for a cancer patient is

> metastasis from the original site to other body sites, as this

> process reduces the potential to remove the cancer by surgery or

> local radiation. For metastatic cancer cells to attach to tissues,

> so as to develop a new tumor mass, they require the assistance

> of " sticky " materials from the blood.

> A group of herbs classified as blood-activating herbs are used to

> counter all of these problems.

 

Attilio

 

Thanks. I always find Subhuti helpful on issues like this. He certainly has

been the most prolific thinker and writer on the practical issues of

pharmacology in the practice of chinese herbology over the past 20 years. I

extracted this line because it speaks to an oft expressed fear that using blood

moving materials will cause metastasis, while all evidence suggest otherwise.

 

As to the question at hand, I believe Subhuti also has an article about using

formulas like Liu Wei Di huang wan in women with estrogen dependent

tumors, an article in which he broaches the broader subject of hormone

manipulation with herbs and even qi gong. He takes an extremely

conservative position in that article in which he essentially advocates not to

use tonic herbal therapies at all in patients whose hormone balance is critical

to their health, such as breast and prostate cancer according to some estimates.

 

Now the problem with this position is that it elevates WM far above CM in

suggesting that the western approach of using lupron to control an active

cancer through extreme hormonal manipulation is a wise approach to begin

with. However if you accept this, you must also understand that anything that

may shift the body back to its normal physiological hormonal balance would

interfere with a therapy which is designed to create an imbalance. So there's

the rub. The use of yang tonic herbs, which is what I assume would used to

treat the symptoms in question, would most certainly work in part by

restoring normal hormonal balance. This increase in testosterone and thus

relative decrease in estrogen would work against the intended purpose of the

Lupron, IMO and could free up the tumor suppression. However I believe this

reversal would be only partial and not all benefits would be lost as the drug is

quite stronger than the herbs at altering hormone levels.

 

On the other hand, would simultaneous use of strategies to otherwise address

the patients condition (moving blood stasis, clearing heat toxin, etc.) take up

the slack induced by adding yang tonics into the mix. Its hard to say. A major

ethical and philosphical dilemma , IMO. I would not do this without

consultation with the MD unless he patient intends to abandon western

medical care. This is also possibly a liability issue that would be of interest

to

malpractice carriers if the patients worsened or died while using high doses of

an herb like yin yang huo, for which there is widely available peer-reviewed

evidence that it increases circulating testosterone.

 

Now, as an interesting sidelight, the life extension foundation (lef.org) in its

discussion of treating prostate cancer over the years has included numerous

citations suggesting while testosterone may an issue with active prostate

cancers, it is actually low testosterone and high estrogen that leads to the

cancer in the first place. I know this is simplistic, but it is as if a lack of

yang

led to an accumulation of yin, but once that yin accumulated it began to draw

on the remaining yang to carry outs its transformations. So suppression of

that remaining yang deprives the tumor of its source of transformation

(replication??) and it stops growing.

 

[Guest guest]

, " " wrote:

He takes an extremely conservative position in that article in which

he essentially advocates not to use tonic herbal therapies at all in

patients whose hormone balance is critical to their health, such as

breast and prostate cancer according to some estimates. >>>

 

 

While this is generally good and safe advice, there is use of tonic

formulas in cancer patients in the Chinese literature, even when

hormone balance is critical. For example, if you look

through " Cancer Treatment with Fu Zheng Pei Ben Principle " (Fujian

Science and Technology Publishing House, 1992) you can see them use

herbs that can influence hormones for conditions of kidney qi

depletion and insufficiency of kidney yang, in prostate cancer.

 

A good general rule is that if you can read the cancer movement in

the pulses and faithfully treat according to those patterns, using

these kinds of formulas should not create a problem.

 

 

 

>>> Now the problem with this position is that it elevates WM far

above CM in suggesting that the western approach of using lupron to

control an active cancer through extreme hormonal manipulation is a

wise approach to begin with. >>>

 

Whether or not we think it helps, the MD should not be interfered

with and deserves a fair trial. If the patient and their MD has

already chosen this particular course of action, I think CM

practitioners are obliged to work with it---not only for liability

issues, but because of their general limited training and

experience. Therefore, avoiding both acupuncture and herbal formulas

that would promote higher testosterone levels.

 

 

 

>>> Now, as an interesting sidelight, the life extension foundation

(lef.org) in its discussion of treating prostate cancer over the

years has included numerous citations suggesting while testosterone

may an issue with active prostate cancers, it is actually low

testosterone and high estrogen that leads to the cancer in the first

place. I know this is simplistic, but it is as if a lack of yang

led to an accumulation of yin, but once that yin accumulated it

began to draw on the remaining yang to carry outs its

transformations. So suppression of that remaining yang deprives the

tumor of its source of transformation (replication??) and it stops

growing. >>>

 

 

You are very close. Your statement is not that simplistic; in fact

your statement is more sophisticated than the general TCM

description of cancer as pertaining to blood statis and accumulation

of phelgm. Your description looks at it using a second level:

yang/yang, yang/yin, yin/yang, yin/yin.

 

But it really requires a 5-Element view to accurately portray the

details of what's going on. If we look at a typical cancer pulse, it

is missing a yang component. Not " yang " in the usual TCM catagorical

sense but in the sense of a controling function of the metal element

that suppresses wood (growth). If we look at the triangle of Metal-

Water-Wood, the controlling aspect, metal, is yang; and the

supporting mother element, water, is yin. In a cancer pulse, we see

a very strong growth or wood movement, but no metal or controlling

aspect. The Taichi circle is irrevocably broken.

 

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

One of the most serious developments for a cancer patient is > metastasis from the original site to other body sites, as this > process reduces the potential to remove the cancer by surgery or > local radiation.

 

>>>>>I just got back from vacation were i had a chance to talk to one of the worlds leading clinical researchers on cancer. He told me that he is more excited on cancer care than he has been for many years. He believes that with in 15 years or so cancer is going to become a chronic manageable disorder with drugs that have very low toxicity

 

Alon

[Guest guest]

, " " wrote:

He takes an extremely conservative position in that article in which

he essentially advocates not to use tonic herbal therapies at all in

patients whose hormone balance is critical to their health, such as

breast and prostate cancer according to some estimates.

 

:

 

 

I took the liberty of uploading a file, " Cancer Herb List.pdf, "

copied from one of my books on herbs that are typically used in

cancer. It is in Chinese and arranged according to type of cancer.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Marco:

 

but what is it?

 

What is it telling us?

 

"why" does it exist?

 

AND more importantly what is it in the context of Chinese medical paradigm(s); will listen to the tapes of the first Chinese conference as I now finally have them in possession...)

Marco

 

-

 

Saturday, August 02, 2003 11:03 PM

Re: Re: Tonifying cancers

I think this is a great goal, and bears out in some of the work I've seen with, for example, monoclonal antibodies. I've seen too much damage from chemotherapy specifically to feel very enthusiastic about it, although I acknowledge it has helped a percentage of patients I've seen. We are never going to win a 'war on cancer', in my opinion. We can either work to prevent it or manage it as a chronic disease (with some possible exceptions, such as melanoma and perhaps lung cancer). On Saturday, August 2, 2003, at 12:47 PM, Alon Marcus wrote:

>>>>>I just got back from vacation were i had a chance to talk to one of the worlds leading clinical researchers on cancer. He told me that he is more excited on cancer care than he has been for many years. He believes that with in 15 years or so cancer is going to become a chronic manageable disorder with drugs that have very low toxicity Alon

[Guest guest]

I think this is a great goal, and bears out in some of the work I've

seen with, for example, monoclonal antibodies. I've seen too much

damage from chemotherapy specifically to feel very enthusiastic about

it, although I acknowledge it has helped a percentage of patients I've

seen. We are never going to win a 'war on cancer', in my opinion. We

can either work to prevent it or manage it as a chronic disease (with

some possible exceptions, such as melanoma and perhaps lung cancer).

 

 

On Saturday, August 2, 2003, at 12:47 PM, Alon Marcus wrote:

 

> >>>>>I just got back from vacation were i had a chance to talk to one

> of the worlds leading clinical researchers on cancer. He told me that

> he is more excited on cancer care than he has been for many years. He

> believes that with in 15 years or so cancer is going to become a

> chronic manageable disorder with drugs that have very low toxicity

>  

> Alon