Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 Jason Are you sure you are reading clasical chinese or just unsimplified characters? they're not the same thing. It is classical Chinese.. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 , <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > > > that most Chinese doctors who were educated in China as TCM doctors do not > know how to read classical chinese. It is totally different, which I am sure > you are discovering, than modern character translation and sentence > structure. I can only speak from experience. This has been mine > >>>>This is what I was told as well > Alon Jason Are you sure you are reading clasical chinese or just unsimplified characters? they're not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 Here is what actually happens at the Chengdu University of Traditional with respect to the study of Chinese medical classics. This is not second hand information. My wife, Zhang Yu Huan, was a student at this university in the mid-1990s, so this is fairly current information from one who was there in the class rooms. One of the required courses for all students in the undergraduate program is called yi1 gu3 wen2 or Ancient Medical Language. There is a standard text for this course that is used throughout the country in colleges and universities of TCM. It is an introductory survey to the classical Chinese of such ancient texts as the Nei Jing, Nan Jing, Shan Han Lun, etc. Students come from various backgrounds, some are already familiar with classical Chinese and for some this is an introduction. So it is truly an overview sort of course. But students study the ancient language and come away from the course, provided they study well, with a fundamental sense of how the material is composed, organized, and, importantly translated into modern Chinese. There are also excerpts from the classics as well as stories from historical records that illustrate how ancient doctors have applied the classical principles and methods in the treatment of diseases. So the theory of the classics is brought to bear on clinical realities. The textbook is divided into two parts. Part One is excerpts from the classics; Part Two is devoted to the grammar of classical Chinese so that students do, indeed, learn how to read the ancient language. Throughout their education, depending upon their specializations, students then develop more...or less facility with reading of the ancient texts. Some deal with these texts in modern Chinese versions and some proceed to study the ancient texts more deeply. There are special courses for those who need or want to study Shan Han Lun, for example, or the Yi Jing. Graduate students and faculty are given access to the fifth floor of the University library which houses the ancient text library here. They require such access for writing dissertations, research papers, and so on. Without it, advanced study utterly lacks credibility. As has been stated by many on this list, it is not a prerequisite that a student preparing for a career as a clinician become conversant with the classical language of the medical classics. But all students at CDUTCM have access to the material from these texts, either directly, if they care to roll up their sleeves and study them, or indirectly if they prefer to rely on consultation with either classmates who are engaged in such study or with professors who specialize in these matters. This is what I have meant in the past when I have pointed out that there is a difference between the prerequisites to clinical training and the requirement that an educational system designed to train doctors of Chinese medicine include such scholarship. I think, perhaps, even Alon will agree that without someone doing the work to keep the content of the medical classics alive and available to those who need and want it, these things would soon enough go the way of all ancient books, i.e. they would fall into disuse and, ultimately disappear. Who knows how many ancient texts have already vanished from the archive because nobody found it worth his or her while to study, revise, update and reissue them? So this is, in a nutshell what actually happens here in Chengdu. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to pose them. If Yu Huan or I cannot provide answers, we can certainly ask our colleagues at the university for help. That is the benefit of having such resources available: you can call on them when you need to know something. Ken , @i... wrote: > , <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > > > > > > that most Chinese doctors who were educated in China as TCM doctors do not > > know how to read classical chinese. It is totally different, which I am sure > > you are discovering, than modern character translation and sentence > > structure. I can only speak from experience. This has been mine > > >>>>This is what I was told as well > > Alon > > Jason > > Are you sure you are reading clasical chinese or just unsimplified > characters? they're not the same thing. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 Here is what actually happens at the ChengduUniversity of Traditional with respect to the study of Chinese medicalclassics. This is not second hand information.My wife, Zhang Yu Huan, was a student at thisuniversity in the mid-1990s, so this is fairlycurrent information from one who was therein the class rooms.>>>>>This must be new. In 1985 non of the young dr I worked with could read classical Chinese. I think, perhaps, even Alon will agree that withoutsomeone doing the work to keep the content of themedical classics alive and available to those whoneed and want it, these things would soon enoughgo the way of all ancient books, i.e. they wouldfall into disuse and, ultimately disappear. >>>>I totally agree. At no time I have suggested that these should not be explored. The more information we have the better off we are. But again I think they need to be explored not only from a linguistic, anthropological, but also through a discerning clinical eye. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 Ken, Can you give me exact title of the textbook of " yi gu wen " that taught in Chendu? Thank you, Yuri yulong Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:56:25 -0000 Re: classical chinese Here is what actually happens at the Chengdu University of Traditional with respect to the study of Chinese medical classics. This is not second hand information. My wife, Zhang Yu Huan, was a student at this university in the mid-1990s, so this is fairly current information from one who was there in the class rooms. One of the required courses for all students in the undergraduate program is called yi1 gu3 wen2 or Ancient Medical Language. There is a standard text for this course that is used throughout the country in colleges and universities of TCM. It is an introductory survey to the classical Chinese of such ancient texts as the Nei Jing, Nan Jing, Shan Han Lun, etc. The textbook is divided into two parts. Part One is excerpts from the classics; Part Two is devoted to the grammar of classical Chinese so that students do, indeed, learn how to read the ancient language. Ken _________________________ Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center. Visto.com. Life on the Dot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Yuri > Can you give me exact title of the textbook of " yi gu wen " that taught in Chendu? The one used in Chengdu is the one that is used throughout the country. Its title is yi1 gu3 wen2. That's all. If you're familiar with the standard textbooks used in the PRC in colleges and universities of TCM, it's one of these. They are usually green and roughly 8X11 paperback books and the whole series covers a fairly complete range of subjects from acupuncture to pharmacology...and yi1 gu3 wen2. I've asked a colleague at CDUTCM to prepare an article for a future issue of Clinical Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine to provide a comprehensive look at the nature and extent of instruction and study of the classics in Chinese schools. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Yuri and all, If that can help you, YI GU WEN (From the Collection of References of the Superior Institute of TCM) by: DUAN(4) Yi(4) SHAN (1) ed: Renmin Weisheng Chubanshe, March 1989 ISBN 7-117-00991-8/ R . 992 Philippe Riviere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Thank you, Ken. I found one here in Chinatown of L.A.By the way, do you know any comprehensive book (not a textbook) on history of TCM in Chinese. I am sure there should be some academic organizations conducting research on history of medicine, including TCM. Are you familiar with them? Yuri yulong Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:24:59 -0000 Re: classical chinese Yuri > Can you give me exact title of the textbook of " yi gu wen " that taught in Chendu? The one used in Chengdu is the one that is used throughout the country. Its title is yi1 gu3 wen2. That's all. If you're familiar with the standard textbooks used in the PRC in colleges and universities of TCM, it's one of these. They are usually green and roughly 8X11 paperback books and the whole series covers a fairly complete range of subjects from acupuncture to pharmacology...and yi1 gu3 wen2. I've asked a colleague at CDUTCM to prepare an article for a future issue of Clinical Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine to provide a comprehensive look at the nature and extent of instruction and study of the classics in Chinese schools. Ken Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Yuri, I am sure there should be some academic organizations conducting research on history of medicine, including TCM. Are you familiar with them? I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Of course here in China there is ongoing research into the history of Chinese medicine at most of the major colleges and universities of TCM. In the West, I know that Christopher Cullen at SOAS in London carries on the work begun by Joseph Needham et cie. And there are researchers in lots of academic institutions pursuing various topics. Charlotte Furth at USC is working on a fascinating study of the ways in which authority has been conferred at various times in Chinese medical history. I'm not familiar with the details of her work, but I heard her describe it briefly at the COMP meeting last fall in San Diego. It seems to me that more and more colleges and universities are getting involved in such studies, I mean with respect to Chinese medicine. The history of medicine is a fairly standard discipline in many medical schools, history departments, and so on. Are you looking for something in particular? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2001 Report Share Posted March 10, 2001 Yes, Ken, I am looking for the book like P.Unschuld's " Medicine in China " but wrote by Chinese author in Chinese. That is, history of TCM, development of TCM's ideas in China or some works about famous Chinese doctors. All in Chinese. Yuri yulong Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:53:36 -0000 Re: classical chinese Are you looking for something in particular? Ken Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2001 Report Share Posted March 10, 2001 Hi Yuri, One of the features we've just added to CAOM is a Book Review section focusing on the latest and best books from the PRC. So interested readers will be able to stay abreast of the Chinese medical literature. As to your request, I'll poke around and round up a few citations for you. You might want to contact me privately on this, as it may or may not be of interest to the whole group. My email is: cosmic.dragon Ken , " yuri ovchinikov " <yuriovi@v...> wrote: > Yes, Ken, I am looking for the book like P.Unschuld's " Medicine in China " but wrote by Chinese author in Chinese. That is, history of TCM, development of TCM's ideas in China or some works about famous Chinese doctors. All in Chinese. > Yuri > > > > > yulong@m... > Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:53:36 -0000 > > Re: classical chinese > > > > > Are you looking for something in particular? > > Ken > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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