Guest guest Posted January 27, 2001 Report Share Posted January 27, 2001 Dear Group: I have a question to pose to whose of you who have treated cancer patients. What do you find you are able to help them with? Have you 'cured' the cancers? I know in TCM we speak of this not as cancer, but according to the 8 principles,etc. Do we have more to offer (from experiences) than increasing the quality of life, reducing the pain, calming the shen, helping the body handle radiation and chemo by aiding the digestive system? I would be interested in knowing good books you have referenced with this type of tx. This may sound like a dumb question, none the less, I would truly be grateful to hear anything you'd take the time to type. Thank you, Ruth Elder ___________ For the most comprehensive Traditional Healthcare information on the Web, visit http://www.acupuncture.com today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 , ruth elder <ruthelder@a...> wrote: > Dear Group: > > I have a question to pose to whose of you who have treated cancer patients. What do you find you are able to help them with? Have you 'cured' the cancers? Uncontrolled outcomes research from China shows a consistent doubling of survival rates for NON metasticized cancers when herbs and chemo/ radiation are used together. then TCM tx is usually directed towards supplementing tx principles. I have heard anecdotes of cure and even outrageous claims that masters of this or that style always cure cancer in compliant patients. My SHL teacher used to talk this way about his teacher. No solid evidence to sway me, though. Fact is most cancers can be prevented. there are obviously lots of weird cancers that we have no idea what causes them, but the vast majority of cancers are lung, usually caused by smoking and colon, caused by diet. A high antioxidant diet, which means lots of veggies has been epidemiologically shown to be correlated with decreased incidence of most cancers. Cervical cancer is caused by human papilloma virus, which infects many women due to promiscuity and no condoms. birth control pills and hormone replacement are indicated in other " female " cancers. breast cancer is only genetic in less than 10% of cases and correlations with lifestyle are not well documented, though low fat and high fermented soy products may help. I suspect liver qi depression in most " female " cancers, which means ultimately the causes may be emotional, but this is hard to correlate. Most breast cancer patients are depressed, but is this cause or effect? I think commercial farm practices will be shown to play a role, but I doubt powerlines or microwaves will. In a nutshell, we could probably lower cancer incidence overall by 75% with simple diet and lifestyle measures. This is where our resources should be focused. then the remaining energy and dollars can be spent on those cancers that have other causes. clinically speaking, whatever we can do to restore balance,whether this is supplementation or dispersal in a given patient, based on s/s analysis is our best bet, me thinks. I think it is folly to give ALL cancer patients either tonics OR blood movers OR antitoxin herbs without attention to differential dx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 on 1/27/01 7:16 AM, ruth elder at ruthelder wrote: > Dear Group: > > I have a question to pose to whose of you who have treated cancer patients. > What do you find you are able to help them with? Have you 'cured' the > cancers? I know in TCM we speak of this not as cancer, but according to the 8 > principles,etc. Do we have more to offer (from experiences) than increasing > the quality of life, reducing the pain, calming the shen, helping the body > handle radiation and chemo by aiding the digestive system? I would be > interested in knowing good books you have referenced with this type of tx. > This may sound like a dumb question, none the less, I would truly be grateful > to hear anything you'd take the time to type. > > Thank you, > Ruth Elder > Dear Ruth, While the goals you mention above are the main aspects of TCM cancer treatment at this time, there is primary treatment of cancer, but it would be difficult to do this legally in the West. Sun Bin-yan and Jia Kun treat cancer directly with herbal medicine, and their works are available in English. I also translated a study showing that with one breast cancer group in China, 29% survived 5 years on western treatment alone, 60% on herbal medicine alone, 69% on combined western/Chinese treatment. While this study may be flawed compared with a similar study in the West, it does show that there is interest in primary cancer treatment in China mainly utilizing herbal medicine, Qi Gong, etc. I took care of a very close friend with lymphoma for several years with Chinese medicine and diet. She went into total remission from enlarged tumors on her neck, and at a point that she was given up for death, she came back to live another three quality years. As biomedical treatment improves for cancer, i.e. monoclonal antibodies, vaccines and the like, I think that combined treatment for cancer patients will become even more effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 Z'ev: Where do we find articles by Sun Bin-yan and Jia Kun? Jim Ramholz , " " <zrosenberg@e...> wrote: > on 1/27/01 7:16 AM, ruth elder at ruthelder@a... wrote: > > > Dear Group: > > > > I have a question to pose to whose of you who have treated cancer patients. > > What do you find you are able to help them with? Have you 'cured' the > > cancers? I know in TCM we speak of this not as cancer, but according to the 8 > > principles,etc. Do we have more to offer (from experiences) than increasing > > the quality of life, reducing the pain, calming the shen, helping the body > > handle radiation and chemo by aiding the digestive system? I would be > > interested in knowing good books you have referenced with this type of tx. > > This may sound like a dumb question, none the less, I would truly be grateful > > to hear anything you'd take the time to type. > > > > Thank you, > > Ruth Elder > > > > > Dear Ruth, > While the goals you mention above are the main aspects of TCM cancer > treatment at this time, there is primary treatment of cancer, but it would > be difficult to do this legally in the West. Sun Bin-yan and Jia Kun treat > cancer directly with herbal medicine, and their works are available in > English. I also translated a study showing that with one breast cancer > group in China, 29% survived 5 years on western treatment alone, 60% on > herbal medicine alone, 69% on combined western/Chinese treatment. While > this study may be flawed compared with a similar study in the West, it does > show that there is interest in primary cancer treatment in China mainly > utilizing herbal medicine, Qi Gong, etc. > I took care of a very close friend with lymphoma for several years with > Chinese medicine and diet. She went into total remission from enlarged > tumors on her neck, and at a point that she was given up for death, she came > back to live another three quality years. > As biomedical treatment improves for cancer, i.e. monoclonal antibodies, > vaccines and the like, I think that combined treatment for cancer patients > will become even more effective. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 on 1/28/01 5:07 PM, jramholz at jramholz wrote: > Z'ev: > > Where do we find articles by Sun Bin-yan and Jia Kun? > > Jim Ramholz > > > Sun Bin-yan's book, " Cancer Treatment and Prevention " is out of print, Jia Kun has a book from Commerical Press, Hong Kong, " Prevention and Treatment of Carcinoma with TCM " . Dr Sun's book is especially interesting, as he basically applies Li Dong-yuan theory to cancer treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2001 Report Share Posted January 29, 2001 I highly recommend Donald Yance's book, " Herbal Medicine, Healing and Cancer " . Although Yance is not an acupuncturist, he has an extensive discussion of fu-zheng adjunctive therapy which he successfully incorporates in his cancer protocals. (And he is an excellent practicioner.) I had very good results for a few years on a stage 4 ovarian cancer client who revived on a Ling zhi and cordycepes-based protocol. She left the area, resumed chemo and eventually succumbed (although she found reason to continue with the herbal treatment to the end.) If I had been able to continue treating her I speculate that I would have added more liver herbs and alteratives to help her better handle the chemotherapy, depending upon her presentation. There is a common phenomenon that the cancer patient will respond well to " families " of herbal treatment for a year or two, then suddenly worsen. It may well be that the cancer adapts, which implies we should consider varrying our approach on a scheduled basis. is well-adapted to do this since we have many doors to opening a problem. But even amelioration for a few years is nothing to discount. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain " .- Oriah Mountain Dreamer ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2001 Report Share Posted January 31, 2001 Dear Z'ev, Karen, Thank you for sharing your experiences with cancer treatments and reference materials. It has helped me to understand more clearly. I am still doing research on the subject for a potential position. And, as often happens, the topic has several avenues in my life, rather than just one. I found out Saturday that a friend was having surgery today for an as-yet unnamed carcinoma located just laterally to the spine, T11/T12 area. A lump he came to me with (thinking it was a muscle pull) and I referred him to western. He's interested in taking herbs in addition to what western suggests he do. Z'ev, by saying it's difficult to legally do primary tx of cancer, are you referring to something other than the illegal herbs used in the formulas? Are you acquainted with the books 'Experience in Treating Carcinomas with TCM' written by Shi Lanling and Shi Peiquan, translated by Lu Yubin, Shandong Science and Technology Press, 1989 or 'Treating Cancer with Chinese Herbs', by Hong-Yen Hsu,PhD, Oriental Healing Arts Institute, 1990? If so, what is your opinion of these? This second book has several charts in it, describing differences of masses. One said that masses within the muscles are usually benign, but masses between the myo and bone are often worse. This was the case in this friends tumor - it was between the bone and myo. Once again, thanks for sharing. Ruth ___________ For the most comprehensive Traditional Healthcare information on the Web, visit http://www.acupuncture.com today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2001 Report Share Posted February 1, 2001 on 1/31/01 8:08 PM, ruth elder at ruthelder wrote: > Dear Z'ev, Karen, > > Thank you for sharing your experiences with cancer treatments and reference > materials. It has helped me to understand more clearly. I am still doing > research on the subject for a potential position. And, as often happens, the > topic has several avenues in my life, rather than just one. I found out > Saturday that a friend was having surgery today for an as-yet unnamed > carcinoma located just laterally to the spine, T11/T12 area. A lump he came > to me with (thinking it was a muscle pull) and I referred him to western. > He's interested in taking herbs in addition to what western suggests he do. This topic has several avenues in everyone's life, because it is at epidemic proportions. Like I believe that prevention of cancer should be a primary campaign and interest of our society, but it begins largely with one topic with huge social, political and economic implications.. . .the pollution of our environment and food supply. > > Z'ev, by saying it's difficult to legally do primary tx of cancer, are you > referring to something other than the illegal herbs used in the formulas? I am referring to the lack of legal protection from cancer patients or their families. Expectations are high, disappointment is rife, and cancer is, of course, life threatening. Also, in California, primary treatment of cancer is limited by law to medical doctors. While we can treat cancer patients, we cannot say 'we treat cancer'. Not that Chinese medicine claims a 'cancer cure'.. . .we work with the overall damage to health, with patterns of disharmony. > > Are you acquainted with the books 'Experience in Treating Carcinomas with TCM' > written by Shi Lanling and Shi Peiquan, translated by Lu Yubin, Shandong > Science and Technology Press, 1989 or 'Treating Cancer with Chinese Herbs', by > Hong-Yen Hsu,PhD, Oriental Healing Arts Institute, 1990? If so, what is your > opinion of these? Yes, I've had both books for years. The first one is pretty good. Dr. Hsu's stuff I've always had trouble with because of the poor translation, but, heck, ten years ago is a long time for English CM texts. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2001 Report Share Posted February 2, 2001 Dear Z'ev, One more question on the study you translated from China on breast cancer, is that something you've written about in any articles, journals, etc? Ah-oh...another question. I saw in the archives that you have previously done seminars on this topic. do you still? Thanks, Ruth ___________ For the most comprehensive Traditional Healthcare information on the Web, visit http://www.acupuncture.com today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2001 Report Share Posted February 2, 2001 on 2/2/01 4:27 AM, ruth elder at ruthelder wrote: > Dear Z'ev, > > One more question on the study you translated from China on breast cancer, is > that something you've written about in any articles, journals, etc? No, I suppose I should at some point. I'll let you know. > > Ah-oh...another question. I saw in the archives that you have previously done > seminars on this topic. do you still? Yes, this is one of my seminar topics. I'd like to do it again some time in the near future ('Management of cancer patients with Chinese medicine', 'Treatment and Care of Chemotherapy/Radiation Patients with Chinese Medicine'). > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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