Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 Maybe someone could help explain something to me -- I might have missed some previous conversation -- could someone define the key differential signs and symptoms between lv qi xu, and lv xue xu, and lv xue qu/ with sp qi xu, or lv yin xu etc... then once the signs and symptoms are clearly defined how one prescribes herbs differently for each pattern. This would be helpful... - [zrosenberg] Sunday, January 28, 2001 6:58 PM Re: Re: liver qi vacuity again on 1/28/01 2:04 PM, at wrote: the pragmatic aspect of this fragment for me is for the CM medical literature having noted the phenomenon of what I've seen of patients who have exhausted their liver qi through overwork, emotional excess, drink, drugs and the aging process. Even if one uses medicinals from other pattern categories, it doesn't diminish its importance, at least for myself (and hopefully others). Observationally yours, > > While it is nice to have a bonafide chinese excerpt regarding liver qi > vacuity, I will reiterate my position from the last thread on this > subject. The signs and sx of this pattern are none other than those of > spleen qi and liver blood vacuity. the only herbal therapeutic > recommendation anyone could find last time was to use si jun zi tang > plus blood tonics (i.e. the typical therapy for dual qi and blood > vacuity). So this remains a theoretical decription that yields no new > clinical insights. If someone could tell me what I would do > differently having diagnosed this pattern of liver qi vacuity instead > of spleen qi and liver blood vacuity, then I would be interested. > > Pragmatically yours, > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 Not too long ago, we discussed liver qi vacuity as a pattern. On my recent visit to Vancouver, Phillip Riviere gave me a chinese selection from a textbook by Leung Kok-yuen to translate on the subject. This little piece is a result of a collaboration and translation by myself, Phillip, and Helen Hu for the benefit of Chinese Herbal Medicine. LIVER QI VACUITY and GALL BLADDER QI VACUITY PATTERN translated by Phillipe, Riviere, Z¹ev Rosenberg, and Helen Hu The liver governs coursing, and is paired with the gall bladder in a mutual interior/exterior relationship. A gall bladder qi vacuity pattern is occurring because the liver has lost its function of coursing (shuxie). The two patterns belong to qi vacuity, so they easily can become mixed (or confused), because of their close relationship and influence on each other. However, liver qi vacuity can develop because of the seven emotions/affects (qi qing) becoming depressed and knotted, which depletes liver blood. Or it can develop or result from a base of liver blood vacuity, with clinical manifestations of worry, depression, loss of desire to speak, fatigue (pi fa), headache, rib-side pain and blurred vision. On the other hand, gall bladder qi vacuity develops primarily from an internal damage (nei shang) by the seven emotions or spirit-mind (qing zhi). This will manifest with fearfulness, frightfulness, insomnia with many dreams along with dizziness and clouded vision. Neither pattern is severe, one can separate and differentiate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 , " " <zrosenberg@e...> wrote: clinical > manifestations of worry, depression, loss of desire to speak, fatigue (pi > fa), headache, rib-side pain and blurred vision. While it is nice to have a bonafide chinese excerpt regarding liver qi vacuity, I will reiterate my position from the last thread on this subject. The signs and sx of this pattern are none other than those of spleen qi and liver blood vacuity. the only herbal therapeutic recommendation anyone could find last time was to use si jun zi tang plus blood tonics (i.e. the typical therapy for dual qi and blood vacuity). So this remains a theoretical decription that yields no new clinical insights. If someone could tell me what I would do differently having diagnosed this pattern of liver qi vacuity instead of spleen qi and liver blood vacuity, then I would be interested. Pragmatically yours, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2001 Report Share Posted January 28, 2001 on 1/28/01 2:04 PM, at wrote: the pragmatic aspect of this fragment for me is for the CM medical literature having noted the phenomenon of what I've seen of patients who have exhausted their liver qi through overwork, emotional excess, drink, drugs and the aging process. Even if one uses medicinals from other pattern categories, it doesn't diminish its importance, at least for myself (and hopefully others). Observationally yours, > > While it is nice to have a bonafide chinese excerpt regarding liver qi > vacuity, I will reiterate my position from the last thread on this > subject. The signs and sx of this pattern are none other than those of > spleen qi and liver blood vacuity. the only herbal therapeutic > recommendation anyone could find last time was to use si jun zi tang > plus blood tonics (i.e. the typical therapy for dual qi and blood > vacuity). So this remains a theoretical decription that yields no new > clinical insights. If someone could tell me what I would do > differently having diagnosed this pattern of liver qi vacuity instead > of spleen qi and liver blood vacuity, then I would be interested. > > Pragmatically yours, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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