Beneath the planet of Natures and Channels

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken,

 

> If my

> speculation is incorrect, then perhaps you

> can explain more clearly how you rationalize

> the foreshortening of clinical theory by

> dispensing as a " weird glitch " an element

> thereof that is included in most of the

> texts that have been compiled on the subject

> for many centuries

 

I don't know if your speculation is correct or not, but I'd love to have my mind

changed on this... it would give me more tools.

 

To me " channels entered " (or whatever phrase is used) is information that I can

not apply clinically. I don't know how. If a plant is said to " enter the lung

meridian " but the lung channel is not listed in the actions or indications, how

would I use this plant for a patient with

a lung imbalance? Would it be for a deficiency or an excess? Tould it tonify or

sedate? Qi or Yin?

 

The information around channels seems redundant to me, and if it's not

redundant, then I don't know how to use it. But maybe I've overlooked something.

 

David

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

 

I'm a little confused by something you said in another

post, in answer to Doug.

 

" I was saying that some of the " channels entered " information seems

arbitrary. "

 

What I'd understood you to say was that " channels entered "

was a weird glitch in Chinese herbal medicine and it was

for that reason that you do not teach it to your students.

 

I think there are two distinct topics. One is the theory

of gui1 jing4 and the other is the accuracy of the literature

with respect to such attributions for individual herbs.

 

Keep in mind that when we use the term, " the literature "

we can only assess the overall accuracy by reference to

specific texts. This becomes, at once, an immense undertaking

and certainly not one that we could reasonably expect to

engage in on this list. Well, not me anyway. I'm afraid

my plate is a little full at the moment.

 

But to respond to what you've said below...

 

>

> I don't know if your speculation is correct or not,

 

Since you're the only one who would possibly know, we'll

leave that point as moot.

 

> but I'd love to have my mind changed on this... it would give me

>more tools.>

 

I'm actually not out to change your mind. Remember

that I am not an herbalist. I cannot address this

issue from the point of view of someone saying, " Look,

this works. I've done this a thousand times and it

works. "

 

I gave a brief statement of my sense of the theory

of gui1 jing4 in my last post. I also gave what I

suspected to be a likely reason that would impede

you from taking possession of and using this particular

tool.

 

> To me " channels entered " (or whatever phrase is used)

 

Well, whatever phrase is used is primarily important

with respect to the conveyance of what the Chinese

phrase says and means. That was the whole point of

my post, i.e. if we contemplate the meaning of the

terms in the theory then the methods suggested by

the theory begin to emerge. In other words, how do

you go about influencing a patient's qi4 by means

of herbs? One theoretical approach is to coordinate

herbal ingredients with channels and organs, gui1 jing4.

As long as whatever phrase is used gets to the conceptual

understanding of gui1 jing4, then the tool remains

understandable and therefore functional. If whatever

phrase is used is, for whatever reason not understood

or incorrectly understood by those using it, then

the tool remains unused.

 

> is information that I can not apply clinically. I don't know how.

 

I've given you my best suggestion as to how to proceed

to explore a positive outcome.

 

>If a plant is said to " enter the lung meridian " but the lung channel

>is not listed in the actions or indications,

 

Again, that a particular plant is listed in a particular

text as having a particular characteristic is a different

subject than the theory of gui1 jing4.

 

> how would I use this plant for a patient with

> a lung imbalance? Would it be for a deficiency or an excess? Tould

>it tonify or sedate? Qi or Yin?

 

Curiously, of all the words that you used to frame

this question, only Qi and Yin suggest precise

meanings to me. The words " deficiency, " " excess, "

" tonify, " and " sedate " are poor English equivalents

of various Chinese medical terms.

 

Keeping in mind that my reason for entering into this

whole speculation was to give an example of how the

current situation that exists with respect to translation

standards and Chinese medical terminology in the English

language affects us, I submit that here is further evidence of how

we are stymied in our attempts to understand the subject

by lack of such standards.

 

The simple truth is that with various Chinese medical

terms in mind that have all been translated by the

words you ask about, I really have no idea what

you mean precisely.

 

Now how shall we proceed?

 

In order to go beyond this point, we have to

get out the dictionaries and find out what it

is you really want to know.

 

If all of this seems like idiotic nitpicking to

you, then we'd have to start at an even more

fundamental level in order to address the

questions you raise.

 

> The information around channels seems redundant to me, and if it's

>not redundant, then I don't know how to use it. But maybe I've

>overlooked something.

 

As I said, it's not really possible for me to

make any asessment beyond what I've stated above.

 

I do value and appreciate your taking the time

to go through this, and I look forward to learning

more about it.

 

 

Happy New Year!

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

David Leonard wrote:

 

> The information around channels seems redundant to me, and if it's not

redundant, then I don't know how to use it. But maybe I've overlooked something.

 

I think that what has been overlooked is the history of the herb. Lose a

function, but keep the channels entered. I wonder how often that happens?

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

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