Acupuncture needling....officially known as dry needling as pr

[Guest guest]

K

 

Hope this helps.

Ted responded to my questions as follows:

 

'only proper education will allow acupuncturists to compete in the health

care system. The military is now training medics, nurses and doctors

without the interference of acupuncturists. The administration (Obama) has

stated

inclusion in the national healthcare system must be science and evidence

based.

 

 

The new California Medical Treatment Utilization Schedule MTUS is in

effect as of 8/17/09. This Law which I am proud to have participated in its

development and implementation,

 

 

1. allows greater access for patients, however requires specific education

for Acupuncturists to have access to those patients.

 

2. Labor Code Sections 3201.5 and 3201.7 allow for Professional Guilds

(NGAOM.org) to negotiate with employers regarding any aspect of benefit

delivery if employees are eligible for group health benefits and

nonoccupational

disability benefits through the employer.

 

ACAOM/CCAOM does not provide standards or curriculum for this

medical-legal specialty, and instead promotes false blood-energy-meridians, and

inadequate training that has failed to fully address public needs and safety.We

have checked the evidence, 70% unemployment, 5 patients a week average, $120

thousand dollar student loans, this is called failure.

 

Visit the NGAOM.org website and download our position papers for more

detailed information. Visit my website _www.tedpriebe.com_

(http://www.tedpriebe.com/) for evidence based education for

" Needling Therapy "

 

Ted Priebe, OMD

Doctor of Oriental Medicine

Lic. No AC-2184

Appointed Member, Medical Evidence Evaluation Advisory Committee (MEEAC)

California Department of Workers’ Compensation, Medical Unit

_www.tedpriebe.com_ () 310-801-1462

California Work Comp Division Education Provider No. 1210 and California

Acupuncture Board NO.702)

(ACHB 795 NCCAOM)

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/26/2009 9:26:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

johnkokko writes:

 

Thanks for sending this,

but can you summarize the information?

It's difficult to decipher.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree that we need to explain the mechanisms of acupuncture better,

but what is the special training that Ted's colleagues require?

 

Really, medicine is all about specialization, not generalization...

so why are nurses, medics and doctors with sub-par acupuncture training

doing the jobs that licensed acupuncturists can do much better and safer?

 

If acupuncturists aren't getting work in the private sector,

why withhold them jobs in the public sector ?

 

It really isn't that hard to talk about how acupuncture works from a

bio-medical perspective.

Does it take a nursing degree or MD license to do that?

 

K

 

 

 

 

On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <acudoc11 wrote:

 

>

>

> K

>

> Hope this helps.

> Ted responded to my questions as follows:

>

> 'only proper education will allow acupuncturists to compete in the health

> care system. The military is now training medics, nurses and doctors

> without the interference of acupuncturists. The administration (Obama) has

> stated

> inclusion in the national healthcare system must be science and evidence

> based.

>

>

> The new California Medical Treatment Utilization Schedule MTUS is in

> effect as of 8/17/09. This Law which I am proud to have participated in its

>

> development and implementation,

>

>

> 1. allows greater access for patients, however requires specific education

> for Acupuncturists to have access to those patients.

>

> 2. Labor Code Sections 3201.5 and 3201.7 allow for Professional Guilds

> (NGAOM.org) to negotiate with employers regarding any aspect of benefit

> delivery if employees are eligible for group health benefits and

> nonoccupational

> disability benefits through the employer.

>

> ACAOM/CCAOM does not provide standards or curriculum for this

> medical-legal specialty, and instead promotes false blood-energy-meridians,

> and

> inadequate training that has failed to fully address public needs and

> safety.We

> have checked the evidence, 70% unemployment, 5 patients a week average,

> $120

> thousand dollar student loans, this is called failure.

>

> Visit the NGAOM.org website and download our position papers for more

> detailed information. Visit my website _www.tedpriebe.com_

> (http://www.tedpriebe.com/) for evidence based education for

> " Needling Therapy "

>

> Ted Priebe, OMD

> Doctor of Oriental Medicine

> Lic. No AC-2184

> Appointed Member, Medical Evidence Evaluation Advisory Committee (MEEAC)

> California Department of Workers’ Compensation, Medical Unit

> _www.tedpriebe.com_ () 310-801-1462

> California Work Comp Division Education Provider No. 1210 and California

> Acupuncture Board NO.702)

> (ACHB 795 NCCAOM)

>

> In a message dated 12/26/2009 9:26:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com> writes:

>

> Thanks for sending this,

> but can you summarize the information?

> It's difficult to decipher.

>

>

[Guest guest]

You might ask why the AOM controlling agencies and their working connection

to and with " the system " who apparently failed miserably in addressing

such questions OR in the alternative....it has been purposefully designed to

be the way it is.

 

If you ask me.....it was purposefully designed as you see it!!!

 

You can NOT be allowed to have your own cash register and be let in on the

survival billing machine..

You either work as an underling for the medical system for say $10/hr or

you starve on your own.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/27/2009 2:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

johnkokko writes:

 

I agree that we need to explain the mechanisms of acupuncture better,

but what is the special training that Ted's colleagues require?

 

Really, medicine is all about specialization, not generalization...

so why are nurses, medics and doctors with sub-par acupuncture training

doing the jobs that licensed acupuncturists can do much better and safer?

 

If acupuncturists aren't getting work in the private sector,

why withhold them jobs in the public sector ?

 

It really isn't that hard to talk about how acupuncture works from a

bio-medical perspective.

Does it take a nursing degree or MD license to do that?

 

K

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

John

 

That's the key word/issue... " dominant " .

Not much is fair or ethical.

Dominance is where it's at.

That's just the way it is.

 

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/27/2009 11:55:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

subincor writes:

 

 

 

 

Hi John and all:

 

--John-

 

I agree that we need to explain the mechanisms of acupuncture better,

---

 

I disagree strongly. The double standards that we are held to are driven

by deep, unscientific biases. A great many drugs are used without the barest

idea of how they do what they do, and yet acupuncture, with an excellent

and proven safety profile, is held to an impossible standard.

I, like any other intelligent individual, am interested in the development

of acupuncture. I understand that there is no need to prove it, however.

 

--John-

so why are nurses, medics and doctors with sub-par acupuncture training

doing the jobs that licensed acupuncturists can do much better and safer?

---

 

Because they are part of the dominant system. Not because they are the

most qualified, not because they have the right, only because they have the

guns.

 

There are many important developments being made in the world of

international law that we might take a few cues from: biopiracy is now a real

legal

entity, and one that seems to be gaining quite a bit of force. The

reasoning behind the concept of biopiracy relies on cultural dominance - in

other

words, it is *not accepted* that the reason pharm corp X gets to take plants

from a rainforest after finding out that the locals use them for Y

condition is because pharm X is the possessor of true science and true

knowledge.

It is accepted that the only reason pharm X gets to do stuff is because it

happens to be in possession of power. The statements in international law

go something like this:

 

Indigenous peoples have the right to the recognition and full ownership,

control and protection of their cultural, artistic, spiritual, technological

and scientific heritage [...]. (OAS, 1997)

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

_http://middlemedicihttp://middlehtt_

(http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com/)

_http://www.middlemehttp://www_ (http://www.middlemedicine.org/)

 

________________________________

<_johnkokko_ (johnkokko) >

_Traditional_Traditional_<WBRTraditional_Tra_

(Chinese Medicine )

Sun, 27 December, 2009 2:08:13

Re: " Acupuncture needling " ...Re: TCM -

" Acupuncture needl

 

but what is the special training that Ted's colleagues require?

 

Really, medicine is all about specialization, not generalization.Re

so why are nurses, medics and doctors with sub-par acupuncture training

doing the jobs that licensed acupuncturists can do much better and safer?

 

If acupuncturists aren't getting work in the private sector,

why withhold them jobs in the public sector ?

 

It really isn't that hard to talk about how acupuncture works from a

bio-medical perspective.

Does it take a nursing degree or MD license to do that?

 

K

 

On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <_acudoc11_

(acudoc11) > wrote:

 

>

>

> K

>

> Hope this helps.

> Ted responded to my questions as follows:

>

> 'only proper education will allow acupuncturists to compete in the health

> care system. The military is now training medics, nurses and doctors

> without the interference of acupuncturists. The administration (Obama)

has

> stated

> inclusion in the national healthcare system must be science and evidence

> based.

>

>

> The new California Medical Treatment Utilization Schedule MTUS is in

> effect as of 8/17/09. This Law which I am proud to have participated in

its

>

> development and implementation,

>

>

> 1. allows greater access for patients, however requires specific

education

> for Acupuncturists to have access to those patients.

>

> 2. Labor Code Sections 3201.5 and 3201.7 allow for Professional Guilds

> (NGAOM.org) to negotiate with employers regarding any aspect of benefit

> delivery if employees are eligible for group health benefits and

> nonoccupational

> disability benefits through the employer.

>

> ACAOM/CCAOM does not provide standards or curriculum for this

> medical-legal specialty, and instead promotes false blood-energy-

medical-l

> and

> inadequate training that has failed to fully address public needs and

> safety.We

> have checked the evidence, 70% unemployment, 5 patients a week average,

> $120

> thousand dollar student loans, this is called failure.

>

> Visit the NGAOM.org website and download our position papers for more

> detailed information. Visit my website _www.tedpriebe. det

> (_http://www.tedpriebhttp:/_ (http://www.tedpriebe.com/) ) for evidence

based education for

> " Needling Therapy "

>

> Ted Priebe, OMD

> Doctor of Oriental Medicine

> Lic. No AC-2184

> Appointed Member, Medical Evidence Evaluation Advisory Committee (MEEAC)

> California Department of Workers’ Compensation, Medical Unit

> _www.tedpriebe. _www.tedpriebe.<WBR

> California Work Comp Division Education Provider No. 1210 and California

> Acupuncture Board NO.702)

> (ACHB 795 NCCAOM)

>

> In a message dated 12/26/2009 9:26:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> _johnkokko_ (johnkokko)

<johnkokko%40gmail.joh> writes:

>

> Thanks for sending this,

> but can you summarize the information?

> It's difficult to decipher.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

 

--

 

 

" when you smile, you defy gravity "

 

www.turtleclinic.www

www.tcmreview.www

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

---

 

Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

_http://www.chinesemhttp://www.chhtt_ (http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/)

 

Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine

and acupuncture, click, _http://www.chinesemhttp://www.chhttp://wwhttp://w_

(http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia)

 

To change your email delivery settings, click,

_http://groups.http://grohttp://groups.<Whttp://grohttp://grhttp_

() and adjust

accordingly.

 

Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

requires prior permission from the author.

 

Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

[Guest guest]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.......Right?

 

I am forced to often recall what Dr Robert C Sohn said....

" just because a warm human body is walking around

does NOT mean that they are entitled to an opinion. "

 

TO have an opinion...it must be earned and have value....;....

certainly by the application of logic and common sense.

 

Certain accrediting organizations..... long time controlled by English

influences...

well lets just propose that what they pass off as their educated

opinion(s)

appears NOT to be in the best interests of the advancement of the

profession.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 12/27/2009 12:39:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

johnkokko writes:

 

Z'ev,

That got on my nerves too... " promotes false blood-energy meridians " ..Th

 

if they don't want to use the channel theory/ practice of the classics,

don't call it acupuncture.

Call it " dry-needling " of " trigger-points " and then hire whoever you want

to.

Why is an acupuncturist, Ted Priebe, championing this anti-acupuncture

cause?

 

K

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi John and all:

 

--John-

 

I agree that we need to explain the mechanisms of acupuncture better,

---

 

I disagree strongly. The double standards that we are held to are driven by

deep, unscientific biases. A great many drugs are used without the barest idea

of how they do what they do, and yet acupuncture, with an excellent and proven

safety profile, is held to an impossible standard.

I, like any other intelligent individual, am interested in the development of

acupuncture. I understand that there is no need to prove it, however.

 

--John-

so why are nurses, medics and doctors with sub-par acupuncture training

doing the jobs that licensed acupuncturists can do much better and safer?

---

 

Because they are part of the dominant system. Not because they are the most

qualified, not because they have the right, only because they have the guns.

 

There are many important developments being made in the world of international

law that we might take a few cues from: biopiracy is now a real legal entity,

and one that seems to be gaining quite a bit of force. The reasoning behind the

concept of biopiracy relies on cultural dominance - in other words, it is *not

accepted* that the reason pharm corp X gets to take plants from a rainforest

after finding out that the locals use them for Y condition is because pharm X is

the possessor of true science and true knowledge. It is accepted that the only

reason pharm X gets to do stuff is because it happens to be in possession of

power. The statements in international law go something like this:

 

 

Indigenous peoples have the right to the recognition and full ownership, control

and protection of their cultural, artistic, spiritual, technological and

scientific heritage [...]. (OAS, 1997)

 

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

<johnkokko

Chinese Medicine

Sun, 27 December, 2009 2:08:13

Re: " Acupuncture needling " ....officially known as " dry needling "

as pr

 

 

but what is the special training that Ted's colleagues require?

 

Really, medicine is all about specialization, not generalization...

so why are nurses, medics and doctors with sub-par acupuncture training

doing the jobs that licensed acupuncturists can do much better and safer?

 

If acupuncturists aren't getting work in the private sector,

why withhold them jobs in the public sector ?

 

It really isn't that hard to talk about how acupuncture works from a

bio-medical perspective.

Does it take a nursing degree or MD license to do that?

 

K

 

 

 

 

On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <acudoc11 wrote:

 

>

>

> K

>

> Hope this helps.

> Ted responded to my questions as follows:

>

> 'only proper education will allow acupuncturists to compete in the health

> care system. The military is now training medics, nurses and doctors

> without the interference of acupuncturists. The administration (Obama) has

> stated

> inclusion in the national healthcare system must be science and evidence

> based.

>

>

> The new California Medical Treatment Utilization Schedule MTUS is in

> effect as of 8/17/09. This Law which I am proud to have participated in its

>

> development and implementation,

>

>

> 1. allows greater access for patients, however requires specific education

> for Acupuncturists to have access to those patients.

>

> 2. Labor Code Sections 3201.5 and 3201.7 allow for Professional Guilds

> (NGAOM.org) to negotiate with employers regarding any aspect of benefit

> delivery if employees are eligible for group health benefits and

> nonoccupational

> disability benefits through the employer.

>

> ACAOM/CCAOM does not provide standards or curriculum for this

> medical-legal specialty, and instead promotes false blood-energy-meridians,

> and

> inadequate training that has failed to fully address public needs and

> safety.We

> have checked the evidence, 70% unemployment, 5 patients a week average,

> $120

> thousand dollar student loans, this is called failure.

>

> Visit the NGAOM.org website and download our position papers for more

> detailed information. Visit my website _www.tedpriebe.com_

> (http://www.tedpriebe.com/) for evidence based education for

> " Needling Therapy "

>

> Ted Priebe, OMD

> Doctor of Oriental Medicine

> Lic. No AC-2184

> Appointed Member, Medical Evidence Evaluation Advisory Committee (MEEAC)

> California Department of Workers’ Compensation, Medical Unit

> _www.tedpriebe.com_ () 310-801-1462

> California Work Comp Division Education Provider No. 1210 and California

> Acupuncture Board NO.702)

> (ACHB 795 NCCAOM)

>

> In a message dated 12/26/2009 9:26:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com> writes:

>

> Thanks for sending this,

> but can you summarize the information?

> It's difficult to decipher.

>

>

[Guest guest]

What gets me is this quote: " promotes false blood-energy meridians " . I hope

we're not going to battle in our profession over the nature of channels and

network vessels, or " qi is or is not energy " . Very sad indeed.

 

 

 

 

On Dec 26, 2009, at 11:08 PM, wrote:

 

> I agree that we need to explain the mechanisms of acupuncture better,

> but what is the special training that Ted's colleagues require?

>

> Really, medicine is all about specialization, not generalization...

> so why are nurses, medics and doctors with sub-par acupuncture training

> doing the jobs that licensed acupuncturists can do much better and safer?

>

> If acupuncturists aren't getting work in the private sector,

> why withhold them jobs in the public sector ?

>

> It really isn't that hard to talk about how acupuncture works from a

> bio-medical perspective.

> Does it take a nursing degree or MD license to do that?

>

> K

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <acudoc11 wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> K

>>

>> Hope this helps.

>> Ted responded to my questions as follows:

>>

>> 'only proper education will allow acupuncturists to compete in the health

>> care system. The military is now training medics, nurses and doctors

>> without the interference of acupuncturists. The administration (Obama) has

>> stated

>> inclusion in the national healthcare system must be science and evidence

>> based.

>>

>>

>> The new California Medical Treatment Utilization Schedule MTUS is in

>> effect as of 8/17/09. This Law which I am proud to have participated in its

>>

>> development and implementation,

>>

>>

>> 1. allows greater access for patients, however requires specific education

>> for Acupuncturists to have access to those patients.

>>

>> 2. Labor Code Sections 3201.5 and 3201.7 allow for Professional Guilds

>> (NGAOM.org) to negotiate with employers regarding any aspect of benefit

>> delivery if employees are eligible for group health benefits and

>> nonoccupational

>> disability benefits through the employer.

>>

>> ACAOM/CCAOM does not provide standards or curriculum for this

>> medical-legal specialty, and instead promotes false blood-energy-meridians,

>> and

>> inadequate training that has failed to fully address public needs and

>> safety.We

>> have checked the evidence, 70% unemployment, 5 patients a week average,

>> $120

>> thousand dollar student loans, this is called failure.

>>

>> Visit the NGAOM.org website and download our position papers for more

>> detailed information. Visit my website _www.tedpriebe.com_

>> (http://www.tedpriebe.com/) for evidence based education for

>> " Needling Therapy "

>>

>> Ted Priebe, OMD

>> Doctor of Oriental Medicine

>> Lic. No AC-2184

>> Appointed Member, Medical Evidence Evaluation Advisory Committee (MEEAC)

>> California Department of Workers‚ Compensation, Medical Unit

>> _www.tedpriebe.com_ () 310-801-1462

>> California Work Comp Division Education Provider No. 1210 and California

>> Acupuncture Board NO.702)

>> (ACHB 795 NCCAOM)

>>

>> In a message dated 12/26/2009 9:26:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

>> johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com> writes:

>>

>> Thanks for sending this,

>> but can you summarize the information?

>> It's difficult to decipher.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Z'ev,

That got on my nerves too... " promotes false blood-energy meridians " ....

 

if they don't want to use the channel theory/ practice of the classics,

don't call it acupuncture.

Call it " dry-needling " of " trigger-points " and then hire whoever you want

to.

Why is an acupuncturist, Ted Priebe, championing this anti-acupuncture

cause?

 

K

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 8:58 AM, <zrosenbe wrote:

 

> What gets me is this quote: " promotes false blood-energy meridians " . I

> hope we're not going to battle in our profession over the nature of channels

> and network vessels, or " qi is or is not energy " . Very sad indeed.

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

--

 

 

""

 

 

www.tcmreview.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I recall a lot of this claiming that we have misinformation or some

mistranslation, never personally bought into it. Maybe some of that claim is

accurate but there is no such claim from the Asian sources that back up the

misinformation theory. I also found this a bit lacking of recent discovery, or

not so recent, during the last 50 years coming from the Korea(s). Dr. Soh,

following the works of Dr. Kim Bonghan, has seen several of his studies

published in peer-reviewed journals, one being the Journal of the Anatomical

Record (Part on New Anatomy), where we now have some interesting photos to go

along with the theories. So, why not include this important info, if this is

truly a scientific endeavor?

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

CC: habeas_1

acudoc11

Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:00:08 -0500

Re: " Acupuncture needling " ....officially known as " dry needling "

as pr

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.......Right?

 

 

 

I am forced to often recall what Dr Robert C Sohn said....

 

" just because a warm human body is walking around

 

does NOT mean that they are entitled to an opinion. "

 

 

 

TO have an opinion...it must be earned and have value....;....

 

certainly by the application of logic and common sense.

 

 

 

Certain accrediting organizations..... long time controlled by English

 

influences...

 

well lets just propose that what they pass off as their educated

 

opinion(s)

 

appears NOT to be in the best interests of the advancement of the

 

profession.

 

 

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/27/2009 12:39:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

 

johnkokko writes:

 

 

 

Z'ev,

 

That got on my nerves too... " promotes false blood-energy meridians " ..Th

 

 

 

if they don't want to use the channel theory/ practice of the classics,

 

don't call it acupuncture.

 

Call it " dry-needling " of " trigger-points " and then hire whoever you want

 

to.

 

Why is an acupuncturist, Ted Priebe, championing this anti-acupuncture

 

cause?

 

 

 

K