Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi all, Has anyone seen a big difference from taking -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sorry about that... got a new Mac and was playing around with Command/Tab buttons.... Has anyone seen a big difference in taking the Jiangyou Fu zi that Heiner Fruehauf sells or other varieties that other companies sell? I know that the processing and the dosing is critical. In his article/interview on his website " the importance of Fu zi " , he mentions that a small dose of Fu zi may affect the upper jiao more (where people can complain of palpitations/dizziness), while a large dose (30g + more/ day) will affect the lower jiao (where we want to shoot the ball into the goal after dribbling it across the field... ie. moving qi/ blood, clearing phlegm). A medium dose can be used for pain. A very informative article. What's the group's experience on using Jiangyou and non-Jiangyou region Fu zi? At which dosages have you been using for your granules' Fu zi for different conditions? 3:1, 5:1, 8:1 ? 1-5 g/ Fu zi / day? Is using the raw-dried herb necessary for certain formulas/ conditions? Thanks, K On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <johnkokko wrote: > Hi all, > > Has anyone seen a big difference from taking > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 If you are on the CHA, we had a long discussion about this in the last 6 months. I have found a major difference between Spring Wind's prepared fuzi as compared to other companies (and their old fu zi). I have not used the HF's granulars. -Jason Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of john kokko Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:49 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing Sorry about that... got a new Mac and was playing around with Command/Tab buttons.... Has anyone seen a big difference in taking the Jiangyou Fu zi that Heiner Fruehauf sells or other varieties that other companies sell? I know that the processing and the dosing is critical. In his article/interview on his website " the importance of Fu zi " , he mentions that a small dose of Fu zi may affect the upper jiao more (where people can complain of palpitations/dizziness), while a large dose (30g + more/ day) will affect the lower jiao (where we want to shoot the ball into the goal after dribbling it across the field... ie. moving qi/ blood, clearing phlegm). A medium dose can be used for pain. A very informative article. What's the group's experience on using Jiangyou and non-Jiangyou region Fu zi? At which dosages have you been using for your granules' Fu zi for different conditions? 3:1, 5:1, 8:1 ? 1-5 g/ Fu zi / day? Is using the raw-dried herb necessary for certain formulas/ conditions? Thanks, K On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Hi all, > > Has anyone seen a big difference from taking > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi Jason, Thanks.. I've combed through the CHA messages.. A lot of discussion about Jiangyou Fu zi , Springwind and others, but not a lot of discussion about dosing and side-effects or efficacy reached for certain conditions, based on concentrated powders vs dried-whole herbs at certain dosages. Maybe I just want to bring the fire-school discussion back, because it's so important... Any clinical experience about specific formulas/ conditions - required dosing? Thanks! K On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:17 AM, < > wrote: > > > If you are on the CHA, we had a long discussion about this in the last 6 > months. I have found a major difference between Spring Wind's prepared fuzi > as compared to other companies (and their old fu zi). I have not used the > HF's granulars. > > -Jason > > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > [Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\ e%40>] > On Behalf Of john > kokko > Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:49 AM > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing > > > Sorry about that... got a new Mac and was playing around with Command/Tab > buttons.... > > Has anyone seen a big difference in taking the Jiangyou Fu zi that Heiner > Fruehauf sells or other varieties that other companies sell? I know that > the processing and the dosing is critical. In his article/interview on his > website " the importance of Fu zi " , he mentions that a small dose of Fu zi > may affect the upper jiao more (where people can complain of > palpitations/dizziness), while a large dose (30g + more/ day) will affect > the lower jiao (where we want to shoot the ball into the goal after > dribbling it across the field... ie. moving qi/ blood, clearing phlegm). A > medium dose can be used for pain. A very informative article. > > What's the group's experience on using Jiangyou and non-Jiangyou region Fu > zi? > > At which dosages have you been using for your granules' Fu zi for different > conditions? 3:1, 5:1, 8:1 ? 1-5 g/ Fu zi / day? > > Is using the raw-dried herb necessary for certain formulas/ conditions? > > Thanks, > K > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com> > <johnkokko%40gmail.com <johnkokko%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Has anyone seen a big difference from taking > > > > -- > > > > > > "" > > > > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hey Kokko and all Great topic I suggest people check out Arnaud's forum where there is a lively discussion of these topics www.arnaudversluys.com Stephen Woodley LAc www.shanghanlunseminars.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Stephen, Thanks... I'm on the forum. I've seen Fu zi bring back the fire in the belly and the pulse like no other herb can. It's like prometheus stealing fire from heaven to give life to people. Are users on the group using Bensky dosages of Fu zi or Shang han/ Jin gui dosages? In the source texts, Fu zi is listed as 1-3 pieces. Translation? K On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:32 PM, learntcm <learntcm wrote: > > > > Hey Kokko and all > Great topic > > I suggest people check out Arnaud's forum where there is a lively > discussion of these topics > > www.arnaudversluys.com > > Stephen Woodley LAc > www.shanghanlunseminars.com > > > -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 My herb supplier tells me that Xi Xin is banned now; what are people using for replacements? Fu zi doesn't seem to be as much focused on the channels, and gui zhi is not as strong. I tend to use Tang gui si ni tang a lot this time of year for fibromyalgia that gets worse with cold, and I am not sure how to handle the substitution, and it's just not working as well as it did with xi xin in it. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - " " <johnkokko <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:17 AM Re: Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing > Stephen, > Thanks... I'm on the forum. > I've seen Fu zi bring back the fire in the belly and the pulse like no > other > herb can. It's like prometheus stealing fire from heaven to give life to > people. > > Are users on the group using Bensky dosages of Fu zi or Shang han/ Jin gui > dosages? In the source texts, Fu zi is listed as 1-3 pieces. > Translation? > > K > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:32 PM, learntcm <learntcm wrote: > >> >> >> >> Hey Kokko and all >> Great topic >> >> I suggest people check out Arnaud's forum where there is a lively >> discussion of these topics >> >> www.arnaudversluys.com >> >> Stephen Woodley LAc >> www.shanghanlunseminars.com >> >> >> > > > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Xi xin is only 'banned' because of aristolochic acid content. Spring Wind herbs has an arisotolochic acid free tested xi xin that is still available, and that is what I use. . . I also find dang gui si ni san to be essential in practice. On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. wrote: > My herb supplier tells me that Xi Xin is banned now; what are people using > for replacements? Fu zi doesn't seem to be as much focused on the channels, > and gui zhi is not as strong. I tend to use Tang gui si ni tang a lot this > time of year for fibromyalgia that gets worse with cold, and I am not sure > how to handle the substitution, and it's just not working as well as it did > with xi xin in it. > > Regards, > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. > > angelapfa > > www.InnerhealthSalem.com > > Phone: 503 364 3022 > - > " " <johnkokko > <Chinese Medicine > > Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:17 AM > Re: Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing > > > Stephen, > > Thanks... I'm on the forum. > > I've seen Fu zi bring back the fire in the belly and the pulse like no > > other > > herb can. It's like prometheus stealing fire from heaven to give life to > > people. > > > > Are users on the group using Bensky dosages of Fu zi or Shang han/ Jin gui > > dosages? In the source texts, Fu zi is listed as 1-3 pieces. > > Translation? > > > > K > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:32 PM, learntcm <learntcm wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Hey Kokko and all > >> Great topic > >> > >> I suggest people check out Arnaud's forum where there is a lively > >> discussion of these topics > >> > >> www.arnaudversluys.com > >> > >> Stephen Woodley LAc > >> www.shanghanlunseminars.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > "" > > > > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Z'ev, what about Xi xin available in granules? What about Wu tou in comparison with Xi xin for cold and pain in the channels? Are you using Mu tong or Tong cao in Dang gui si ni tang? K On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, <zrosenbewrote: > Xi xin is only 'banned' because of aristolochic acid content. Spring Wind > herbs has an arisotolochic acid free tested xi xin that is still available, > and that is what I use. . . I also find dang gui si ni san to be essential > in practice. > > > On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. wrote: > > > My herb supplier tells me that Xi Xin is banned now; what are people > using > > for replacements? Fu zi doesn't seem to be as much focused on the > channels, > > and gui zhi is not as strong. I tend to use Tang gui si ni tang a lot > this > > time of year for fibromyalgia that gets worse with cold, and I am not > sure > > how to handle the substitution, and it's just not working as well as it > did > > with xi xin in it. > > > > Regards, > > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. > > > > angelapfa > > > > www.InnerhealthSalem.com > > > > Phone: 503 364 3022 > > - > > " " <johnkokko > > <Chinese Medicine > > > Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:17 AM > > Re: Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing > > > > > Stephen, > > > Thanks... I'm on the forum. > > > I've seen Fu zi bring back the fire in the belly and the pulse like no > > > other > > > herb can. It's like prometheus stealing fire from heaven to give life > to > > > people. > > > > > > Are users on the group using Bensky dosages of Fu zi or Shang han/ Jin > gui > > > dosages? In the source texts, Fu zi is listed as 1-3 pieces. > > > Translation? > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:32 PM, learntcm <learntcm > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hey Kokko and all > > >> Great topic > > >> > > >> I suggest people check out Arnaud's forum where there is a lively > > >> discussion of these topics > > >> > > >> www.arnaudversluys.com > > >> > > >> Stephen Woodley LAc > > >> www.shanghanlunseminars.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > "" > > > > > > > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I get xi xin in granules. . . wu tou is good for cold and pain in the channels, but more toxic in my opinion.. .. I use mu tong in the formula as well. . Z'ev On Dec 17, 2009, at 12:50 PM, wrote: > Z'ev, > what about Xi xin available in granules? > > What about Wu tou in comparison with Xi xin for cold and pain in the > channels? > > Are you using Mu tong or Tong cao in Dang gui si ni tang? > > K > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, <zrosenbewrote: > > > Xi xin is only 'banned' because of aristolochic acid content. Spring Wind > > herbs has an arisotolochic acid free tested xi xin that is still available, > > and that is what I use. . . I also find dang gui si ni san to be essential > > in practice. > > > > > > On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. wrote: > > > > > My herb supplier tells me that Xi Xin is banned now; what are people > > using > > > for replacements? Fu zi doesn't seem to be as much focused on the > > channels, > > > and gui zhi is not as strong. I tend to use Tang gui si ni tang a lot > > this > > > time of year for fibromyalgia that gets worse with cold, and I am not > > sure > > > how to handle the substitution, and it's just not working as well as it > > did > > > with xi xin in it. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. > > > > > > angelapfa > > > > > > www.InnerhealthSalem.com > > > > > > Phone: 503 364 3022 > > > - > > > " " <johnkokko > > > <Chinese Medicine > > > > Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:17 AM > > > Re: Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing > > > > > > > Stephen, > > > > Thanks... I'm on the forum. > > > > I've seen Fu zi bring back the fire in the belly and the pulse like no > > > > other > > > > herb can. It's like prometheus stealing fire from heaven to give life > > to > > > > people. > > > > > > > > Are users on the group using Bensky dosages of Fu zi or Shang han/ Jin > > gui > > > > dosages? In the source texts, Fu zi is listed as 1-3 pieces. > > > > Translation? > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:32 PM, learntcm <learntcm > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hey Kokko and all > > > >> Great topic > > > >> > > > >> I suggest people check out Arnaud's forum where there is a lively > > > >> discussion of these topics > > > >> > > > >> www.arnaudversluys.com > > > >> > > > >> Stephen Woodley LAc > > > >> www.shanghanlunseminars.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > "" > > > > > > > > > > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 In Bensky's 2nd edition Formulas and Strategies, the dosage of Fu zi seems to be ~9 gms / piece In Si ni tang 1 piece = 6-9 gms In Tong mai si ni tang 1 big piece = 12-24 gms In Bai tong tang 1 piece = 9-15 gms If the concentrated powder ratio is 5:1, then are we looking at about 2 gms/ Fu zi powder/ day for most formulas? Arnaud suggested using Wu zhu yu as a possible substitution for Xi xin as well. Are you getting Xi xin from Qualiherbs? or elsewhere? K lassicalchinesemedicine.org/lassicalchinesemedicine.org/On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:00 PM, <zrosenbe wrote: > I get xi xin in granules. . . > > wu tou is good for cold and pain in the channels, but more toxic in my > opinion.. . > > I use mu tong in the formula as well. . > > Z'ev > > > On Dec 17, 2009, at 12:50 PM, wrote: > > > Z'ev, > > what about Xi xin available in granules? > > > > What about Wu tou in comparison with Xi xin for cold and pain in the > > channels? > > > > Are you using Mu tong or Tong cao in Dang gui si ni tang? > > > > K > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, <zrosenbe > >wrote: > > > > > Xi xin is only 'banned' because of aristolochic acid content. Spring > Wind > > > herbs has an arisotolochic acid free tested xi xin that is still > available, > > > and that is what I use. . . I also find dang gui si ni san to be > essential > > > in practice. > > > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. wrote: > > > > > > > My herb supplier tells me that Xi Xin is banned now; what are people > > > using > > > > for replacements? Fu zi doesn't seem to be as much focused on the > > > channels, > > > > and gui zhi is not as strong. I tend to use Tang gui si ni tang a lot > > > this > > > > time of year for fibromyalgia that gets worse with cold, and I am not > > > sure > > > > how to handle the substitution, and it's just not working as well as > it > > > did > > > > with xi xin in it. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. > > > > > > > > angelapfa > > > > > > > > www.InnerhealthSalem.com > > > > > > > > Phone: 503 364 3022 > > > > - > > > > " " <johnkokko > > > > <Chinese Medicine > > > > > Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:17 AM > > > > Re: Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing > > > > > > > > > Stephen, > > > > > Thanks... I'm on the forum. > > > > > I've seen Fu zi bring back the fire in the belly and the pulse like > no > > > > > other > > > > > herb can. It's like prometheus stealing fire from heaven to give > life > > > to > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > Are users on the group using Bensky dosages of Fu zi or Shang han/ > Jin > > > gui > > > > > dosages? In the source texts, Fu zi is listed as 1-3 pieces. > > > > > Translation? > > > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:32 PM, learntcm <learntcm > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Hey Kokko and all > > > > >> Great topic > > > > >> > > > > >> I suggest people check out Arnaud's forum where there is a lively > > > > >> discussion of these topics > > > > >> > > > > >> www.arnaudversluys.com > > > > >> > > > > >> Stephen Woodley LAc > > > > >> www.shanghanlunseminars.com > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Jason and Kokko, I am not familiar with the CHA group, but i would like to be able to join. I have become interested in Fu Zi and the differences between what I was taught in school about the danger of Fu Zi poisoning and the need to dose low and the information from the Shang Han Lun as well as reports from Chen, etc., about how it has been used in high doses. In short, it seems like the problem with Fu Zi poisoning is the result of the current processing practices on the mainland to increase yields and decrease costs. This is at least one explanation why traditionally it was dosed higher and now we have problems. David Toone, L.Ac. Health without Drugs or Surgery 105 Tivoli Gardens Peachtree City, GA 30269 770.780.9608 info www.davidtoone.com On Dec 16, 2009, at 12:17 PM, wrote: > If you are on the CHA, we had a long discussion about this in the > last 6 > months. I have found a major difference between Spring Wind's > prepared fuzi > as compared to other companies (and their old fu zi). I have not > used the > HF's granulars. > > -Jason > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > john > kokko > Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:49 AM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Fu zi dosing/ sourcing > > Sorry about that... got a new Mac and was playing around with > Command/Tab > buttons.... > > Has anyone seen a big difference in taking the Jiangyou Fu zi that > Heiner > Fruehauf sells or other varieties that other companies sell? I know > that > the processing and the dosing is critical. In his article/interview > on his > website " the importance of Fu zi " , he mentions that a small dose of > Fu zi > may affect the upper jiao more (where people can complain of > palpitations/dizziness), while a large dose (30g + more/ day) will > affect > the lower jiao (where we want to shoot the ball into the goal after > dribbling it across the field... ie. moving qi/ blood, clearing > phlegm). A > medium dose can be used for pain. A very informative article. > > What's the group's experience on using Jiangyou and non-Jiangyou > region Fu > zi? > > At which dosages have you been using for your granules' Fu zi for > different > conditions? 3:1, 5:1, 8:1 ? 1-5 g/ Fu zi / day? > > Is using the raw-dried herb necessary for certain formulas/ > conditions? > > Thanks, > K > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <johnkokko > <johnkokko%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Has anyone seen a big difference from taking > > > > -- > > > > > > "" > > > > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.