Guest guest Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Mike, We can only use charges set up on a standing charge sheet our department uses; all the codes are PT-related, so the dry needling has to be rolled into a regular PT charge. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Then they are not billing for acupuncture per correct cpt codes. If they were, they would be using the same acupuncture-related codes. These are not divided by profession as much as procedure. Many others use the same acupuncture we do. I do find it odd that they are not billing or coding correctly for the procedures they do. This can be a problem if they get audited. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine dsbryson Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:00:06 -0500 dry needling charges Mike, We can only use charges set up on a standing charge sheet our department uses; all the codes are PT-related, so the dry needling has to be rolled into a regular PT charge. Diane _______________ Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games & scope=cashback & form=MSHYCB & publ\ =WLHMTAG & crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Diane-- what code were you instructed to use? And what is the typical reimbursement rate? This was an issue when PT expanded their scope in Colorado. We had a copy of a patient bill that showed that patients were billed by PTs under a code, 20522, trigger point injection for 2 or less areas at $180 and 20553 trigger point injection for three or more areas at $400. Some case law has established reasonable reimbursement for 20522 at $80-90. This is the code physicians may use for trigger point injection, and it does not matter if anything is injected or not, although the implication is that a hypodermic needle is used. See http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20041000/coding.html. Medicare does not typically reimburse a PT for this code, and if an acupuncture needle is being used, billing this code may involve insurance fraud. The APTA recommends the use the CPT code 97140 for manual therapy. Trainers of dry needling expressly instruct PT not to use acupuncture codes. Why? They deny that dry needling is acupuncture. And, I suspect that PTs are reimbursed at a far higher rate for manual therapy than acupuncture codes allow. Also, PTs would be in a legal catch-22 if they used acupuncture codes but keep maintaining their distance from acupuncture techniques. The patient bill we saw was for several hundred dollars. So Diane, can you share what is the typical reimbursement, and what code are you taught to use? Valerie Hobbs, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > > Then they are not billing for acupuncture per correct cpt codes. If they were, they would be using the same acupuncture-related codes. These are not divided by profession as much as procedure. Many others use the same acupuncture we do. I do find it odd that they are not billing or coding correctly for the procedures they do. This can be a problem if they get audited. > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > Chinese Medicine > dsbryson > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:00:06 -0500 > dry needling charges > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > We can only use charges set up on a standing charge sheet our department uses; all the codes are PT-related, so the dry needling has to be rolled into a regular PT charge. > > Diane > > > > > > > > > > _______________ > Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. > http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games & scope=cashback & form=MSHYCB & publ\ =WLHMTAG & crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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