sweating

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

> A student asked me to explain what exterior resolving means if it

> doesn't always mean sweating. If an exterior evil is not dispelled

via

> the pores, through what route does it leave the body?

 

Developing an answer to this line of questions

has to include a discussion of the term xie2 а

that we translate as " evil " . It's a prime example

of the use and function of metaphor in Chinese

medical terminology and theory. And once again

we're up against the same barrier that we've

been talking about for a little while now.

 

That is the barrier of the language itself.

I just don't see how it's possible to comprehend

the meaning of the theories related to the

contarcting of disease through the mechanism

of exterior evil as well as the treatment

of such a disease through the use of herbs

that " resolve the exterior " unless the complex

metaphoric nature of the terms in question

as well as related terms and concepts are

taken into consideration.

 

The point is not simply that knowledge of

Chinese characters helps to understand such

terms and the theories in which they are found.

Lack of such knowledge prevents understanding.

 

And here is a case in point.

 

I wrote an article about this word that appeared

in the Winter 1999 edition of Parabola. I think

that reprints are available by poking aroud at

www.parabola.org, if anyone is interested

in some of the material that can and should be

brought to bear on the understanding of this

word. To summarize it, it includes an investigation

of the etymology of the word, which fundamentally

means upright, straight and not bent over or twisted.

 

It also includes a discussion of the philosophical

contexts in which the ethical " charge " of evil

is established, comparing that of the West with

that of China. They're not the same, and if you

don't take the differences into account you're

likely to end up with an altogether wrong understanding

of what an exterior evil is.

 

If you're reading this Bob Flaws, here is also

an example of a particular, rather fundamental

concept that exemplifies the need for an inclusion

of philosophy and epistemology in the study of Chinese medical

language and clinical medicine as well. You've

left me curious to know where you draw the limits

that you believe I have exceeded in regards to

philosophy.

 

It came in

> through the surface, so it must leave the same way, right?

 

No. There are no musts according to theory.

The body deals with an endless stream of

inputs from the environment and processes

them routinely at all levels. An understanding

of this theory that results in the conclusion

that you state is needlessly limited.

 

A corollary

> question is whether an exterior evil always enters from outside the

body

> or does it sometimes mean that the evil is merely lodged in the

> exterior.

 

Again, I think we need to clarify the

terms as a first step in addressing

the question.

 

What do those two options really mean?

 

For example, consider Bell's palsy or osteoarthritis (both

> often attributed to exterior wind, at least in part) versus the

common

> cold. Any thoughts?

 

There's a few.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

That is the barrier of the language itself.I just don't see how it's possible to comprehendthe meaning of the theories related to thecontarcting of disease through the mechanismof exterior evil as well as the treatmentof such a disease through the use of herbsthat "resolve the exterior" unless the complexmetaphoric nature of the terms in questionas well as related terms and concepts are taken into consideration.>>>

I think this is a given with any term or word used with in any language. We need to think more broadly and translate such terms within the context used at any particular time. That is why for example I do not like standard translations. If you just transform one character to another in English than one does not know what the translator thinks the meaning is. Now of course this goes into a discussion of interpretation but to me writing contextually is the only good solution (as long as it is stated as such)

Alon

 

-

dragon90405

Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:13 AM

Re: sweating

> A student asked me to explain what exterior resolving means if it> doesn't always mean sweating. If an exterior evil is not dispelled via> the pores, through what route does it leave the body?Developing an answer to this line of questionshas to include a discussion of the term xie2 аthat we translate as "evil". It's a prime exampleof the use and function of metaphor in Chinesemedical terminology and theory. And once againwe're up against the same barrier that we'vebeen talking about for a little while now.That is the barrier of the language itself.I just don't see how it's possible to comprehendthe meaning of the theories related to thecontarcting of disease through the mechanismof exterior evil as well as the treatmentof such a disease through the use of herbsthat "resolve the exterior" unless the complexmetaphoric nature of the terms in questionas well as related terms and concepts are taken into consideration.The point is not simply that knowledge ofChinese characters helps to understand suchterms and the theories in which they are found.Lack of such knowledge prevents understanding.And here is a case in point.I wrote an article about this word that appearedin the Winter 1999 edition of Parabola. I thinkthat reprints are available by poking aroud atwww.parabola.org, if anyone is interestedin some of the material that can and should bebrought to bear on the understanding of thisword. To summarize it, it includes an investigationof the etymology of the word, which fundamentallymeans upright, straight and not bent over or twisted.It also includes a discussion of the philosophicalcontexts in which the ethical "charge" of evilis established, comparing that of the West withthat of China. They're not the same, and if youdon't take the differences into account you'relikely to end up with an altogether wrong understandingof what an exterior evil is.If you're reading this Bob Flaws, here is alsoan example of a particular, rather fundamentalconcept that exemplifies the need for an inclusionof philosophy and epistemology in the study of Chinese medicallanguage and clinical medicine as well. You'veleft me curious to know where you draw the limitsthat you believe I have exceeded in regards tophilosophy. It came in> through the surface, so it must leave the same way, right? No. There are no musts according to theory.The body deals with an endless stream ofinputs from the environment and processesthem routinely at all levels. An understandingof this theory that results in the conclusionthat you state is needlessly limited.A corollary> question is whether an exterior evil always enters from outside the body> or does it sometimes mean that the evil is merely lodged in the> exterior.Again, I think we need to clarify theterms as a first step in addressing the question. What do those two options really mean? For example, consider Bell's palsy or osteoarthritis (both> often attributed to exterior wind, at least in part) versus the common> cold. Any thoughts?There's a few.KenChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

This is very interesting. I had not heard anything like this before. But still

I'm not sure I understand it. Could you explain a bit more? Caucasians have more

pores, therefore less heat build-up and thus need a stronger moving factor?

 

I'm afraid I still remain puzzled.

 

ann

 

 

The density of sweat glands in skin may be a factor why hot tea works

better for Chinese than for caucasians. Caucasians generally have

more pores per square inch- perhaps the " build up " of heat is less

pronounced, so it takes a stronger strategy to cause movement.

 

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Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/310 - Release 4/12/06

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am currently treating a 19 year old female with the main complaint of

spontaneous sweating since 2003 and she is unable to connect to anything that

changed. She has been unable to correlate what makes it worse, except when she

is getting ready to leave the house and be in public. She also suffers from

anxiety and that is getting better with the treatments, however there has been

no change in her sweating - profuse in the armpits and her hands always feel

clammy. She can feel cold and still sweat. She smokes pot " sometimes " to help

with the social anxiety and says she does it because she likes how it makes her

feel. She was willing to quit and that lasted about 2 weeks.

 

She shows signs of KD deficiency and has asthma, hx of getting sick easily in

the past, also some LV stagnation and blood deficiency signs.

Energy - good, digestion - tendency towards constipation, sleep - some

restlessness at times but not regularly - no vivid dreaming..

 

Has anyone treated similiar issues? I have treated her 6 times with no change in

the sweating and am wondering if I am on the right path - I always like to hear

others input?

 

I generally treat using pulse balancing and her pulses balance during the

treatment with a bit of excess still in the upper jiao.

 

any input appreciated!

 

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[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Lisa Smith <fudge_lisa

wrote:

 

 

" I am currently treating a 19 year old female with the main complaint of

spontaneous sweating since 2003 and she is unable to connect to anything that

changed. She has been unable to correlate what makes it worse, except when she

is getting ready to leave the house and be in public. She also suffers from

anxiety and that is getting better with the treatments, however there has been

no change in her sweating - profuse in the armpits and her hands always feel

clammy. She can feel cold and still sweat. She smokes pot " sometimes " to help

with the social anxiety and says she does it because she likes how it makes her

feel. She was willing to quit and that lasted about 2 weeks.

>

> She shows signs of KD deficiency and has asthma, hx of getting sick easily in

the past, also some LV stagnation and blood deficiency signs.

> Energy - good, digestion - tendency towards constipation, sleep - some

restlessness at times but not regularly - no vivid dreaming.. "

 

 

 

Hi Lisa

my answer will not be of help in the short term and address this young woman's

sweating... yet the social anxiety/ agorophobia and use of pot reminded me of

the books:

 

'Higher and Higher' & 'Drug Repair That Works'

Both by Jost Sauer

 

Go here for synopses

http://www.jostsauer.com/interact/products-page/

 

 

Jost explains - from a TCM perspective - what happens to the Zang-Fu, Shen, Po,

Hun, Yi and Zhi as people engage in 'recreational' or occasional use of

'lighter' drugs ... and how damage to the Mind-Body-Spirit caused by those drugs

sets some folk up for a progression of drug use - they are self-medicating with

drugs which provide temporary relief, yet which [will] cause further

deficencies, excesses and disharmonies - as your patient has noted.

 

This may result in sequential and predictable deterioration towards deeper and

more significant disharmonies and dependence upon the 'harder' drugs as people

continue to self-medicate.

 

Which in turn sets up ever more significant and complex disharmonies.

 

The asthma/ open-pores sweating/ getting sick easily - Lung/Wei -

disharmony/deficiency is something your client 'treats' with the warm,

sweetish/acrid relaxing, smokiness of pot.... yet it will continue to damage her

Lung and Wei qi, and the Fluids, and Fluid dispersing and descending... her Shen

and Po will be / are already affected....etc etc

Somewhere in this, her Liver and Hun play a role already.

Kidney deficiency as you have identified in your patient sets off some alarm

bells.

 

Jost's TCM-based model can be used to diagnose as well as to treat.

 

 

Good luck

Margi Macdonald

http://margihealing.wordpress.com/

[Guest guest]

Du 14 can be really helpful along with clearing heat with LI 11.

 

Chinese Medicine , " margi.macdonald "

<margi.macdonald wrote:

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , Lisa Smith <fudge_lisa@>

wrote:

>

>

> " I am currently treating a 19 year old female with the main complaint of

spontaneous sweating since 2003 and she is unable to connect to anything that

changed. She has been unable to correlate what makes it worse, except when she

is getting ready to leave the house and be in public. She also suffers from

anxiety and that is getting better with the treatments, however there has been

no change in her sweating - profuse in the armpits and her hands always feel

clammy. She can feel cold and still sweat. She smokes pot " sometimes " to help

with the social anxiety and says she does it because she likes how it makes her

feel. She was willing to quit and that lasted about 2 weeks.

> >

> > She shows signs of KD deficiency and has asthma, hx of getting sick easily

in the past, also some LV stagnation and blood deficiency signs.

> > Energy - good, digestion - tendency towards constipation, sleep - some

restlessness at times but not regularly - no vivid dreaming.. "

>

>

>

> Hi Lisa

> my answer will not be of help in the short term and address this young woman's

sweating... yet the social anxiety/ agorophobia and use of pot reminded me of

the books:

>

> 'Higher and Higher' & 'Drug Repair That Works'

> Both by Jost Sauer

>

> Go here for synopses

> http://www.jostsauer.com/interact/products-page/

>

>

> Jost explains - from a TCM perspective - what happens to the Zang-Fu, Shen,

Po, Hun, Yi and Zhi as people engage in 'recreational' or occasional use of

'lighter' drugs ... and how damage to the Mind-Body-Spirit caused by those drugs

sets some folk up for a progression of drug use - they are self-medicating with

drugs which provide temporary relief, yet which [will] cause further

deficencies, excesses and disharmonies - as your patient has noted.

>

> This may result in sequential and predictable deterioration towards deeper and

more significant disharmonies and dependence upon the 'harder' drugs as people

continue to self-medicate.

>

> Which in turn sets up ever more significant and complex disharmonies.

>

> The asthma/ open-pores sweating/ getting sick easily - Lung/Wei -

disharmony/deficiency is something your client 'treats' with the warm,

sweetish/acrid relaxing, smokiness of pot.... yet it will continue to damage her

Lung and Wei qi, and the Fluids, and Fluid dispersing and descending... her Shen

and Po will be / are already affected....etc etc

> Somewhere in this, her Liver and Hun play a role already.

> Kidney deficiency as you have identified in your patient sets off some alarm

bells.

>

> Jost's TCM-based model can be used to diagnose as well as to treat.

>

>

> Good luck

> Margi Macdonald

> http://margihealing.wordpress.com/

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lisa,

     In your case of profuse sweating, I have not seen Liv Qi stagn, neither

blood def.

If Liv Qi stagn, there will be hypochondriac pain, emotional problem " easily

angry " , temporal headache , ear ringing, blurred vision, or with some

allergies.....and if with blood def, you might be able to see dry skin, itching,

dry hairs, dry nails, dry eyes, or blurred vision......

     Usually, Liv Qi stagn is an excess problem and this case usually will cause

Sp problem such as abdominal pain or discomfort with diarrhea, constipation, or

indigested..... With deficiency of blood , there would be dry skin and

itching.... If there is profuse sweating, and blood deficiency exists at the

same time, I would think your patient will have a mental problem. Blood def and

fluid so deficiency , there would be not enough Oxygen goes to the brain, this

will cause dementia, irritability, and..... If you apply a reducing method,

there would be a big problem, I think.

     I have treated this case sucessfully........ But mine may be a little

different.

In your case, there is a Wei Qi deficiency, plus Yang Qi deficiency.

Wei Qi is a Qi which circulates on the outer surface " Skin " , it nourishes ,

and it lubricates the surface and also warms it up.... IF Wei Qi is deficiency,

the skin spores open, not able to hold Qi, and not able to defend for its

surface. This will lead to Qi escape, and body fluid follows, and pathogens will

invade the body........... Qi escape for a long time , will cause Yang Qi

deficiency. This will lead to Yang deficieny " cold and clammy " .

  Which Qi were injured ?  First is Wei Qi, then underarm " Heart Qi and

Pericardium Qi " . There are more than one Qi involved.

  I would do more than one needles............ First I warm up Ren 4 -5 - 6 (

Yang Qi ), this will be able to support Wei Qi, then use S 36 to support Wei Qi

(  please do not confuse Wei Qi is only Lu Qi . Lu Qi circulates, but it is

nourished and supported by Postnatal Qi - Food Qi. So the key is Mid Qi " Sp-Sto

Qi " - ).

  All I had done above is to warm up and rescue Yang Qi to prevent Qi

collapsing.

  Next, the main pts :  S 36 and P6... This will be enough, but it may take at

least 3 - 5 treatments.......... At the same time, herbal can be prescribed : 

Yu Ping Feng San, add a little Rou Gui , Fu Zi, and Gan Cao ( prevent the Fu Zi

toxin )........... Make sure Yang Qi is strong enough for the next time of

treatment............. When Qi or Yang Qi is strong enough, P6 should be able to

stop the sweating immediately, stay still and observe. You may ask your patient

dry up the sweats many times and observe carefully..... Once it stops, this is

good enough. Only herbs will maintain and strengthen the body.Do not use the

formular more than 3 days. It must be observed carefully.

 

Good luck,

 

Nam Nguyen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Lisa,

 

I have treated several patients for hyperhidrosis (uncontrolled underarm

sweating). I'd like to share with you some observations. First, I agree with

our colleagues that your patient is showing signs of Wei Qi Xu-which is a

manifestation of the Lung Qi being compromised But let's examine together the

pathogenesis of her condition: She is a young girl, at a very stressful stage

of her life, early adulthood. Young people in general and young women in

particular tend to deplete their Qi and Blood, by partying, staying up late, and

experimenting with sex and drugs. This depletion can in turn damage the

Heart-Shen. I obviously don't know your patient, and I'm certainly not

prejudging her, but lifestyle definitely needs to be considered, as well as her

menstrual history. Also, it's hard to evaluate without getting a more complete

picture of tongue and pulses. Also, consider that the area of the axilla is

where both the Lung and Heart Channels begin.

As a result, any dysfunction of that area needs to consider those two

Channels. And in fact, all of the patients that I was successfully able to treat

had upper Jiao problems, usually manifesting with Wei Qi and Heart Yin and Blood

vacuities. Your approach, IMVHO should be to focus on those and related

Channels. I would suggest constructing a formula incorporating Yu Ping Feng

San, and perhaps Tian Wang Bu Xin tang. I would counsel her about the

relationship between her lifestyle and his imbalance. Does she have body odor

when she sweats? This most probably indicates a zinc deficiency, which should

be addressed, of course. Notice also that the hyperhidrosis began right around

the onset of puberty. Obviously this is related to hormones and menstruation,

so consider diet and other factors that will impact her hormonal imbalance.

Again, don't underestimate the role that Blood Xu can play in the larger picture

as an important precipitating cause.

 

Respectfully,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Lisa Smith <fudge_lisa

TCM <Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Tue, December 1, 2009 10:02:01 AM

sweating

 

 

 

I am currently treating a 19 year old female with the main complaint of

spontaneous sweating since 2003 and she is unable to connect to anything that

changed. She has been unable to correlate what makes it worse, except when she

is getting ready to leave the house and be in public. She also suffers from

anxiety and that is getting better with the treatments, however there has been

no change in her sweating - profuse in the armpits and her hands always feel

clammy. She can feel cold and still sweat. She smokes pot " sometimes " to help

with the social anxiety and says she does it because she likes how it makes her

feel. She was willing to quit and that lasted about 2 weeks.

 

She shows signs of KD deficiency and has asthma, hx of getting sick easily in

the past, also some LV stagnation and blood deficiency signs.

Energy - good, digestion - tendency towards constipation, sleep - some

restlessness at times but not regularly - no vivid dreaming..

 

Has anyone treated similiar issues? I have treated her 6 times with no change in

the sweating and am wondering if I am on the right path - I always like to hear

others input?

 

I generally treat using pulse balancing and her pulses balance during the

treatment with a bit of excess still in the upper jiao.

 

any input appreciated!

 

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