learning how to take the pulse and other stuff....

[Guest guest]

Actually this was one of the first ways I was taught by my teachers (all phds

from China). It was a fun way to learn to " tune in to " my fingers.  (also

remember being told to fill a sock with rice to practice Tui Na...when it turned

to flour I was ready to practice on patients).

I wanted to thank all of you for this thread...although we may not all agree on

these issues, the general tone has been more civil and supportive that hurtful

and divisive. As professionals we should be able to present our arguements and

then agree to disagree. I know I often disagree with things I read but always

enjoy hearing alternate points of view. When I teach I ensure that my students

understand that my view is only that, my view and I am careful to give them

others ideas as well.  (5 E vs 8p) (acu vs herb) ( chinese lang vs translation)

and all the other lively discussions that we see time and again here. I always

am amazed at the time and detail many of you find to do this...I appreciate it,

even when I disagree. All that said, some day I hope my pulse skills are half as

good as some of yours...but for not its not my priority....hope all of your

weather is as beautiful as mine today.

 

Be well,

Bob

Robert Linde, AP, RH

Professional Herbalists Training Program

Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies

901 Central Ave

St. Petersburg, FL 33705

www.acuherbals.com

727-551-0857

 

--- On Fri, 11/27/09, William <wmorris33 wrote:

 

 

William <wmorris33

Re: learning how to take the pulse

Chinese Medicine

Friday, November 27, 2009, 10:28 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good points –

 

Why pursue an activity that doesn't make a difference in how we see the world?

 

Bob – I find placing a hair under the page of a book a rather peculiar

practice. And, the ability to palpate 10 pages deep and still feel the hair

suggests to me that your nervous system would be overloaded with data. From my

perspective, what you don't observe is equally if not more important than what

you do observe. Apparently, you agree. ;-)

 

If we gain clinical success using methods we find easy, then why pursue methods

that can be more difficult? In the end, we are dealing with medical

epistemology. Biological systems communicate in complex ways. Inquiry and

observation are a part of what has been used as the foundation of Chinese

medicine. Master T'ung did not use pulse. Each of us learns to practice in ways

that fill our clinical needs and meets our individual capacities.

 

If one is familiar with what I write and teach, it is apparent that I am biased

towards pulse diagnosis as a basis of practice. In my experience, it has led to

better results over my 28 years of pulse diagnosis study. Thus, I must ask, how

do we come to a resolution of the importance placed upon pulse by the authors of

the Long Shu, Nan Jing, Mai Jing, Qi Jing Ba Mai Kao and Bin Hu Mai Xue? For me,

the question is – what were these people talking about? Why such an emphasis?

How did this emphasis get lost in contemporary practice? Throughout the history

of Chinese medicine, there have been personalities who bemoan the loss of pulse

diagnostic skills. Z'ev, I thought for sure you would use this opportunity to

quote one of those people, Hsu Ta-ch'un.

 

Most students receive insufficient exposure to pulse diagnosis in TCM programs.

This leads to a lack of confidence, which leads to the use of other tools where

confidence is more easily gained.

 

The problem is not that any practitioner has determined through their

professional judgment to avoid a standard of practice. Rather, the problem is

that social systems that set forth standards in education about Chinese medicine

(in this case, pulse diagnosis) do not see value and the competencies are not

necessary for graduation, certification and licensure.

 

Warmly,

 

Will

 

William R. Morris, PhD, DAOM, LAc

http://pulsediagnos is.com/

http://www.aoma. edu/

http://taaom. org/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Bob,

I agree, this has been a good thread. E-mails, like blogs, tend to dramatize

the issues a bit, and it is sometimes difficult to keep the conversations civil.

I respect your work and writing, I was more responding to Margi's e-mail on the

issue of confusion in pulse systems. It is one of my major concerns that

students and newer practitioners are not 'turned off' to learning pulse

diagnosis, because of the confusion that seems to reign between conflicting

claims and systems. Again, if more people can access primary source material

beyond textbooks, it will help a lot in the long run.

 

 

 

---- " Bob Linde wrote:

> Actually this was one of the first ways I was taught by my teachers (all phds

from China). It was a fun way to learn to " tune in to " my fingers.  (also

remember being told to fill a sock with rice to practice Tui Na...when it turned

to flour I was ready to practice on patients).

> I wanted to thank all of you for this thread...although we may not all agree

on these issues, the general tone has been more civil and supportive that

hurtful and divisive. As professionals we should be able to present our

arguements and then agree to disagree. I know I often disagree with things I

read but always enjoy hearing alternate points of view. When I teach I ensure

that my students understand that my view is only that, my view and I am careful

to give them others ideas as well.  (5 E vs 8p) (acu vs herb) ( chinese lang vs

translation) and all the other lively discussions that we see time and again

here. I always am amazed at the time and detail many of you find to do this...I

appreciate it, even when I disagree. All that said, some day I hope my pulse

skills are half as good as some of yours...but for not its not my

priority....hope all of your weather is as beautiful as mine today.

>

> Be well,

> Bob

> Robert Linde, AP, RH

> Professional Herbalists Training Program

> Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies

> 901 Central Ave

> St. Petersburg, FL 33705

> www.acuherbals.com

> 727-551-0857

>

> --- On Fri, 11/27/09, William <wmorris33 wrote:

>

>

> William <wmorris33

> Re: learning how to take the pulse

> Chinese Medicine

> Friday, November 27, 2009, 10:28 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Good points –

>

> Why pursue an activity that doesn't make a difference in how we see the world?

>

> Bob – I find placing a hair under the page of a book a rather peculiar

practice. And, the ability to palpate 10 pages deep and still feel the hair

suggests to me that your nervous system would be overloaded with data. From my

perspective, what you don't observe is equally if not more important than what

you do observe. Apparently, you agree. ;-)

>

> If we gain clinical success using methods we find easy, then why pursue

methods that can be more difficult? In the end, we are dealing with medical

epistemology. Biological systems communicate in complex ways. Inquiry and

observation are a part of what has been used as the foundation of Chinese

medicine. Master T'ung did not use pulse. Each of us learns to practice in ways

that fill our clinical needs and meets our individual capacities.

>

> If one is familiar with what I write and teach, it is apparent that I am

biased towards pulse diagnosis as a basis of practice. In my experience, it has

led to better results over my 28 years of pulse diagnosis study. Thus, I must

ask, how do we come to a resolution of the importance placed upon pulse by the

authors of the Long Shu, Nan Jing, Mai Jing, Qi Jing Ba Mai Kao and Bin Hu Mai

Xue? For me, the question is – what were these people talking about? Why such

an emphasis? How did this emphasis get lost in contemporary practice? Throughout

the history of Chinese medicine, there have been personalities who bemoan the

loss of pulse diagnostic skills. Z'ev, I thought for sure you would use this

opportunity to quote one of those people, Hsu Ta-ch'un.

>

> Most students receive insufficient exposure to pulse diagnosis in TCM

programs. This leads to a lack of confidence, which leads to the use of other

tools where confidence is more easily gained.

>

> The problem is not that any practitioner has determined through their

professional judgment to avoid a standard of practice. Rather, the problem is

that social systems that set forth standards in education about Chinese medicine

(in this case, pulse diagnosis) do not see value and the competencies are not

necessary for graduation, certification and licensure.

>

> Warmly,

>

> Will

>

> William R. Morris, PhD, DAOM, LAc

> http://pulsediagnos is.com/

> http://www.aoma. edu/

> http://taaom. org/

>

>

>

>

>