Do we practice Chinese Medicine?

[Guest guest]

K

 

Quoted from Dept of Labor Statistics in the past.

15 years ago there were 800,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% of them owned

their own practice

Today there are 633,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% work for a hospital

corporation or some such medical-megalo-consortium.

They have become SLAVES.......worked to the bone for a lot less money then

in the past.

So this is what we want?

I'd rather have my OWN cash register than be a COMMIE SLAVE.

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 11/26/2009 1:14:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

johnkokko writes:

 

Let's just compare this to MDs or DOs training....

4 years undergraduate (preferably in bio-chem / pre-med)

1 year to study for MCAT

4 years of medical school

3 minimum years for residency

2+ years for specialization

 

K

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark

 

That's the covert plan but too many don't see it.

They think the MDs are not slaves working LONG hours just to barely make a

fraction of what they used to.

One fellow student at TCM school asked one of the high level acupuncture

doctors from China what he saw was the difference between China and the USA.

His answer was not what the student was actually asking but more direct.

 

He said... " the difference is that in China we KNOW we are slaves " .

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 11/26/2009 2:24:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mark writes:

 

The practice of TCM has been corrupted in BC through our attempt to be put

on par with allopathic MD's. Instead, the standards of practice have been

shaped by the MD's who've 'joined' our ranks, and it isn't possible to

practice true TCM here and stay within the guidelines being laid down. The

schools here teach a watered down version of TCM, and it is disappointing

to

see what we are now left with. I really caution other jurisdictions in

going

down the path to be more regulated and to be accepted along with allopathic

medicine. If you're not careful, you will end up in the same boat we're

in.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi John, disagreed. Asking for people to be able to write and study is different

than asking people to have a prior degree. According to your stated complaints,

entrance prerequisite for TCM schooling should be a BA in English lit. Not

engineering fro example, because many engineers I know can't write, and if they

do, have no ability to view patterns and connections in the way we must.

 

And this is an issue I am surprised to not have read in this thread - prior

western degrees *can* damage a student and prevent them from fully assimilating

CM.

 

My point is simply that it is a terrible over-simplification to call for prior

western degrees as an entrance requirement expecting that it would solve more

problems than it would create.

 

Makes me think of a friend of mine who has a degree in philosophy. He took many

courses in Chinese philosophy, and yet has managed to misunderstand the bulk of

it. But boy can he write. Reams and reams. Perfect grammar, citation style based

on what is called for etc etc.

 

What I don't want is to help in the creation of more Deke Kendalls - people who

step in thinking they know something, atrociously misunderstand CM as they study

because their cup is full, but they can write, and they are people of the world

since they have multiple degrees, and then feel entitled to go about mucking

around with stuff they don't understand.

 

My main concern is about maintaining a curricula which (really) teaches CM. As

such, courses in a fully fledged school can easily comprise the mastery of said

study skills within a basic 1st and 2nd year CM curricula. Years of training may

have to be extended to 5. Not a big deal if we care about the future of our

profession.

 

ANd if you reallt want to, you set up an entry test that weeds out people who

can't read or study. Period. Call it the CMCAT. That is what would be necessary

at most.

 

And, finally, *testing must be difficult*. Not stupidly difficult, but it must

push the students and threaten them with actual failure. Standardised tests

don't do that (they are merely stupidly difficult), but a teacher who knows you

well and has their eyes over your shoudler most of the time does.

 

I am pushing describing sane requirements in education: low student to teacher

ratio, difficult tests calibrated to the student, special focus on our base

skills and rigorous testing on them (such as pulse-taking and qi gong), and

rigorous training on red-flags and necessary miscellaneous knowledge. Secondary

focus on biomedicine only.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hugo,

 

there are two new options for entrance discernment that we're talking

about...

1. a 4 year degree (any kind... doesn't have to be an English degree or

Western science degree)

2. an entrance examination (doesn't have to be an MCAT)

 

If someone doesn't have to know how to write a 2 page paper, then how are

they going to write an entrance essay?

 

The 4 year degree is of course more jumping through hoops... and when I was

in college, I thought it was unnecessary... but with hindsight ... what is

learned is extremely useful for what we do.

Most people who graduate with a degree never use their degree in their

profession,

other than writing papers or doing research projects or speaking in front of

groups of people,

which is exactly what you learn in 4 years of college, regardless of the

discipline.

It shows that you can do independent thinking and finish what you started.

 

We're talking about an entry-level doctorate... my question is how do you

go from 2 years of undergraduate college to a clinical doctorate in 4 years

of training?

 

Let's just compare this to MDs or DOs training....

4 years undergraduate (preferably in bio-chem / pre-med)

1 year to study for MCAT

4 years of medical school

3 minimum years for residency

2+ years for specialization

 

K

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi John, disagreed. Asking for people to be able to write and study is

> different than asking people to have a prior degree. According to your

> stated complaints, entrance prerequisite for TCM schooling should be a BA in

> English lit. Not engineering fro example, because many engineers I know

> can't write, and if they do, have no ability to view patterns and

> connections in the way we must.

>

> And this is an issue I am surprised to not have read in this thread - prior

> western degrees *can* damage a student and prevent them from fully

> assimilating CM.

>

> My point is simply that it is a terrible over-simplification to call for

> prior western degrees as an entrance requirement expecting that it would

> solve more problems than it would create.

>

> Makes me think of a friend of mine who has a degree in philosophy. He took

> many courses in Chinese philosophy, and yet has managed to misunderstand the

> bulk of it. But boy can he write. Reams and reams. Perfect grammar, citation

> style based on what is called for etc etc.

>

> What I don't want is to help in the creation of more Deke Kendalls - people

> who step in thinking they know something, atrociously misunderstand CM as

> they study because their cup is full, but they can write, and they are

> people of the world since they have multiple degrees, and then feel entitled

> to go about mucking around with stuff they don't understand.

>

> My main concern is about maintaining a curricula which (really) teaches CM.

> As such, courses in a fully fledged school can easily comprise the mastery

> of said study skills within a basic 1st and 2nd year CM curricula. Years of

> training may have to be extended to 5. Not a big deal if we care about the

> future of our profession.

>

> ANd if you reallt want to, you set up an entry test that weeds out people

> who can't read or study. Period. Call it the CMCAT. That is what would be

> necessary at most.

>

> And, finally, *testing must be difficult*. Not stupidly difficult, but it

> must push the students and threaten them with actual failure. Standardised

> tests don't do that (they are merely stupidly difficult), but a teacher who

> knows you well and has their eyes over your shoudler most of the time does.

>

> I am pushing describing sane requirements in education: low student to

> teacher ratio, difficult tests calibrated to the student, special focus on

> our base skills and rigorous testing on them (such as pulse-taking and qi

> gong), and rigorous training on red-flags and necessary miscellaneous

> knowledge. Secondary focus on biomedicine only.

>

> Thanks,

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not that I totally disagree, but the MD's have become slaves of the bureaucrats

(MPH folks) with the standard of care process that doesn't allow them to be

doctors, but automatons. This is easier to do in a hospital, and many like to

work fewer hours so they can actually see their families, which is difficult in

many private practices. However, not to worry. Many look forward to the National

Healthcare system, when they will retire.

DAve

 

On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:17:55 PM, acudoc11 wrote:

 

15 years ago there were 800,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% of them owned 

their own practice

Today there are 633,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% work for a hospital 

corporation or some such medical-megalo-consortium.

They have become SLAVES.......worked to the bone for a lot less money then 

in the past.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The practice of TCM has been corrupted in BC through our attempt to be put

on par with allopathic MD's. Instead, the standards of practice have been

shaped by the MD's who've 'joined' our ranks, and it isn't possible to

practice true TCM here and stay within the guidelines being laid down. The

schools here teach a watered down version of TCM, and it is disappointing to

see what we are now left with. I really caution other jurisdictions in going

down the path to be more regulated and to be accepted along with allopathic

medicine. If you're not careful, you will end up in the same boat we're in.

 

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM, acuman1 <acuman1 wrote:

 

>

>

> Not that I totally disagree, but the MD's have become slaves of the

> bureaucrats (MPH folks) with the standard of care process that doesn't allow

> them to be doctors, but automatons. This is easier to do in a hospital, and

> many like to work fewer hours so they can actually see their families, which

> is difficult in many private practices. However, not to worry. Many look

> forward to the National Healthcare system, when they will retire.

> DAve

>

> On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:17:55 PM, acudoc11 <acudoc11%40aol.com>wrote:

>

> 15 years ago there were 800,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% of them owned

> their own practice

> Today there are 633,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% work for a hospital

> corporation or some such medical-megalo-consortium.

> They have become SLAVES.......worked to the bone for a lot less money then

> in the past.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mark, do you feel anything can be done to reform the current BC college of TCM?

 

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Mark Milotay <mark

Chinese Medicine

Thu, 26 November, 2009 14:22:32

Re: Do we practice ?

 

The practice of TCM has been corrupted in BC through our attempt to be put

on par with allopathic MD's. Instead, the standards of practice have been

shaped by the MD's who've 'joined' our ranks, and it isn't possible to

practice true TCM here and stay within the guidelines being laid down. The

schools here teach a watered down version of TCM, and it is disappointing to

see what we are now left with. I really caution other jurisdictions in going

down the path to be more regulated and to be accepted along with allopathic

medicine. If you're not careful, you will end up in the same boat we're in.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

True. In a recent survey, more than half of the MD's surveyed said that they

would not recommend practicing medicine to their children.

 

- Bill

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , acuman1 <acuman1

wrote:

>

> Not that I totally disagree, but the MD's have become slaves of the

bureaucrats (MPH folks) with the standard of care process that doesn't allow

them to be doctors, but automatons. This is easier to do in a hospital, and many

like to work fewer hours so they can actually see their families, which is

difficult in many private practices. However, not to worry. Many look forward to

the National Healthcare system, when they will retire.

> DAve

>

> On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:17:55 PM, acudoc11 wrote:

>

> 15 years ago there were 800,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% of them owned 

> their own practice

> Today there are 633,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% work for a hospital 

> corporation or some such medical-megalo-consortium.

> They have become SLAVES.......worked to the bone for a lot less money then 

> in the past.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At this point there is little to be done. We had the practice recognized

under provincial legislation and a college was established. The only way to

change things would be to stage a coup on the board of the college, which

has been attempted a failed. I know a number of practitioners who have

walked away from their practices because of the standards being imposed on

them by the college. It is really sad. These practitioners were tired of

being sanctioned for proper practice, because they refused to follow the

watered down standards imposed by the college.

 

The reality is that the college has been developed to support the practice

of accupuncture by physiotherapists and physicians. This is despite the fact

that the original plan was to ensure that we had high standards, and to

establish that by verifying schooling and having board exams. So we have

people suffering pneumothoraxes from unskilled practitioners jamming needles

into patients,relying strictly on guide tubes for needle depth. So, instead

of getting higher standards of practice we get formulaic acupuncture,

minimal use of herbs, and people practicing without a proper grounding in

TCM diagnostics and practice.

 

 

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote:

 

>

>

> Mark, do you feel anything can be done to reform the current BC college of

> TCM?

>

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

>

> ________________________________

> Mark Milotay <mark <mark%40mindbodyasone.com>>

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thu, 26 November, 2009 14:22:32

> Re: Do we practice ?

>

>

> The practice of TCM has been corrupted in BC through our attempt to be put

> on par with allopathic MD's. Instead, the standards of practice have been

> shaped by the MD's who've 'joined' our ranks, and it isn't possible to

> practice true TCM here and stay within the guidelines being laid down. The

> schools here teach a watered down version of TCM, and it is disappointing

> to

> see what we are now left with. I really caution other jurisdictions in

> going

> down the path to be more regulated and to be accepted along with allopathic

> medicine. If you're not careful, you will end up in the same boat we're in.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like alot of what you are proposing, Hugo, particularly the entrance exam.  I

think that it's a great idea to gauge an applicant's ability to think and

analyze.  I do, though, think that by requiring a Bachelor's degree,  we

will weed out some who really may not be appropriate candidates.  But I

think that our admissions folks also need to be more descerning

on who they accept.  It just seems to me that anyone who wants to study

Chinese medicine is accepted and the schools are so starved for money that

they'll just about accept anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro <subincor

Chinese Medicine

Thu, November 26, 2009 9:28:20 AM

Do we practice ?

 

 

Hi John, disagreed. Asking for people to be able to write and study is different

than asking people to have a prior degree. According to your stated complaints,

entrance prerequisite for TCM schooling should be a BA in English lit. Not

engineering fro example, because many engineers I know can't write, and if they

do, have no ability to view patterns and connections in the way we must.

 

And this is an issue I am surprised to not have read in this thread - prior

western degrees *can* damage a student and prevent them from fully assimilating

CM.

 

My point is simply that it is a terrible over-simplification to call for prior

western degrees as an entrance requirement expecting that it would solve more

problems than it would create.

 

Makes me think of a friend of mine who has a degree in philosophy. He took many

courses in Chinese philosophy, and yet has managed to misunderstand the bulk of

it. But boy can he write. Reams and reams. Perfect grammar, citation style based

on what is called for etc etc.

 

What I don't want is to help in the creation of more Deke Kendalls - people who

step in thinking they know something, atrociously misunderstand CM as they study

because their cup is full, but they can write, and they are people of the world

since they have multiple degrees, and then feel entitled to go about mucking

around with stuff they don't understand.

 

My main concern is about maintaining a curricula which (really) teaches CM. As

such, courses in a fully fledged school can easily comprise the mastery of said

study skills within a basic 1st and 2nd year CM curricula. Years of training may

have to be extended to 5. Not a big deal if we care about the future of our

profession.

 

ANd if you reallt want to, you set up an entry test that weeds out people who

can't read or study. Period. Call it the CMCAT. That is what would be necessary

at most.

 

And, finally, *testing must be difficult*. Not stupidly difficult, but it must

push the students and threaten them with actual failure. Standardised tests

don't do that (they are merely stupidly difficult), but a teacher who knows you

well and has their eyes over your shoudler most of the time does.

 

I am pushing describing sane requirements in education: low student to teacher

ratio, difficult tests calibrated to the student, special focus on our base

skills and rigorous testing on them (such as pulse-taking and qi gong), and

rigorous training on red-flags and necessary miscellaneous knowledge. Secondary

focus on biomedicine only.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hugo

 

Why should AOM profession require a BS for entrance.... when MDs require

(only 90 credits) and DCs (only 60 credits)?

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 11/27/09 5:17:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

 

I like alot of what you are proposing, Hugo, particularly the entrance

exam. I think that it's a great idea to gauge an applicant's ability to

think and analyze. I do, though, think <WBR>that by requiring a Bachelor's de

we will weed out some who really may not be appropriate candidates. But I

think that our admissions folks also need to be more descerning on who

they accept. It just seems to me that anyone who wants to study Chinese

medicine is accepted and the schools are so starved for money that they'll just

about accept anyone.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That's the picture!!!

 

And don't think it hasn't already been worked into AOM.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 11/27/09 9:49:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

naturaldoc1 writes:

 

 

I think it is corporate slavery.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Michael

 

So at best its 90 credits and still some states/schools only require 60

credits.

So I ask again to those proposing a BS....WHY for AOM when MDs and DCs

don't require it?

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 11/27/09 10:43:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

naturaldoc1 writes:

 

http://www.nwhealth.edu/admit/require/chiro.html

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sorry....I got names mixed.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 11/27/09 11:07:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

subincor writes:

 

 

I do not support a western degree as a prerequisite for studying CM. In

fact, I am strongly against the idea.

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think it is corporate slavery.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

Chinese Medicine

CC: habeas_1

acudoc11

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:17:55 -0500

Re: Do we practice ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

Quoted from Dept of Labor Statistics in the past.

 

15 years ago there were 800,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% of them owned

 

their own practice

 

Today there are 633,000 MDs/DOs in the US and 85% work for a hospital

 

corporation or some such medical-megalo-consortium.

 

They have become SLAVES.......worked to the bone for a lot less money then

 

in the past.

 

So this is what we want?

 

I'd rather have my OWN cash register than be a COMMIE SLAVE.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 11/26/2009 1:14:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

 

johnkokko writes:

 

 

 

Let's just compare this to MDs or DOs training....

 

4 years undergraduate (preferably in bio-chem / pre-med)

 

1 year to study for MCAT

 

4 years of medical school

 

3 minimum years for residency

 

2+ years for specialization

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hugo,

 

One of the areas our profession suffers from is actual teaching ability.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

Chinese Medicine

subincor

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:28:20 +0000

Do we practice ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi John, disagreed. Asking for people to be able to write and study is

different than asking people to have a prior degree. According to your stated

complaints, entrance prerequisite for TCM schooling should be a BA in English

lit. Not engineering fro example, because many engineers I know can't write, and

if they do, have no ability to view patterns and connections in the way we must.

 

 

 

And this is an issue I am surprised to not have read in this thread - prior

western degrees *can* damage a student and prevent them from fully assimilating

CM.

 

 

 

My point is simply that it is a terrible over-simplification to call for prior

western degrees as an entrance requirement expecting that it would solve more

problems than it would create.

 

 

 

Makes me think of a friend of mine who has a degree in philosophy. He took many

courses in Chinese philosophy, and yet has managed to misunderstand the bulk of

it. But boy can he write. Reams and reams. Perfect grammar, citation style based

on what is called for etc etc.

 

 

 

What I don't want is to help in the creation of more Deke Kendalls - people who

step in thinking they know something, atrociously misunderstand CM as they study

because their cup is full, but they can write, and they are people of the world

since they have multiple degrees, and then feel entitled to go about mucking

around with stuff they don't understand.

 

 

 

My main concern is about maintaining a curricula which (really) teaches CM. As

such, courses in a fully fledged school can easily comprise the mastery of said

study skills within a basic 1st and 2nd year CM curricula. Years of training may

have to be extended to 5. Not a big deal if we care about the future of our

profession.

 

 

 

ANd if you reallt want to, you set up an entry test that weeds out people who

can't read or study. Period. Call it the CMCAT. That is what would be necessary

at most.

 

 

 

And, finally, *testing must be difficult*. Not stupidly difficult, but it must

push the students and threaten them with actual failure. Standardised tests

don't do that (they are merely stupidly difficult), but a teacher who knows you

well and has their eyes over your shoudler most of the time does.

 

 

 

I am pushing describing sane requirements in education: low student to teacher

ratio, difficult tests calibrated to the student, special focus on our base

skills and rigorous testing on them (such as pulse-taking and qi gong), and

rigorous training on red-flags and necessary miscellaneous knowledge. Secondary

focus on biomedicine only.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Hugo

 

 

 

________________________________

 

Hugo Ramiro

 

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

 

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Richard,

http://www.nwhealth.edu/admit/require/chiro.html

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

 

 

www.minneapolisacupuncture.net

This email message is intended only for the personal use of the above named

recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, copy or

forward this email message. If you have received this communication in error,

please notify the sender immediately via email or phone and delete the message

accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

acudoc11

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:33:56 -0500

Re: Do we practice ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hugo

 

 

 

Why should AOM profession require a BS for entrance.... when MDs require

 

(only 90 credits) and DCs (only 60 credits)?

 

 

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 11/27/09 5:17:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

 

writes:

 

 

 

I like alot of what you are proposing, Hugo, particularly the entrance

 

exam. I think that it's a great idea to gauge an applicant's ability to

 

think and analyze. I do, though, think <WBR>that by requiring a Bachelor's de

 

we will weed out some who really may not be appropriate candidates. But I

 

think that our admissions folks also need to be more descerning on who

 

they accept. It just seems to me that anyone who wants to study Chinese

 

medicine is accepted and the schools are so starved for money that they'll just

 

about accept anyone.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Richard:

 

I do not support a western degree as a prerequisite for studying CM. In fact, I

am strongly against the idea.

 

 

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

" acudoc11 " <acudoc11

Chinese Medicine

Fri, 27 November, 2009 10:33:56

Re: Do we practice ?

 

 

Hugo

 

Why should AOM profession require a BS for entrance.... when MDs require

(only 90 credits) and DCs (only 60 credits)?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mike,

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  It so happens that with trepidation I accepted

an offer to teach my first class in Samra's Master's program this coming

quarter.  Your blessings would certainly be appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Fri, November 27, 2009 7:05:54 AM

RE: Do we practice ?

 

 

Hugo,

 

One of the areas our profession suffers from is actual teaching ability. 

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

Chinese Medicine

subincor

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:28:20 +0000

TCM -  Do we practice ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

     

     

      Hi John, disagreed. Asking for people to be able to write and study is

different than asking people to have a prior degree. According to your stated

complaints, entrance prerequisite for TCM schooling should be a BA in English

lit. Not engineering fro example, because many engineers I know can't write, and

if they do, have no ability to view patterns and connections in the way we must.

 

 

 

And this is an issue I am surprised to not have read in this thread - prior

western degrees *can* damage a student and prevent them from fully assimilating

CM.

 

 

 

My point is simply that it is a terrible over-simplification to call for prior

western degrees as an entrance requirement expecting that it would solve more

problems than it would create.

 

 

 

Makes me think of a friend of mine who has a degree in philosophy. He took many

courses in Chinese philosophy, and yet has managed to misunderstand the bulk of

it. But boy can he write. Reams and reams. Perfect grammar, citation style based

on what is called for etc etc.

 

 

 

What I don't want is to help in the creation of more Deke Kendalls - people who

step in thinking they know something, atrociously misunderstand CM as they study

because their cup is full, but they can write, and they are people of the world

since they have multiple degrees, and then feel entitled to go about mucking

around with stuff they don't understand.

 

 

 

My main concern is about maintaining a curricula which (really) teaches CM. As

such, courses in a fully fledged school can easily comprise the mastery of said

study skills within a basic 1st and 2nd year CM curricula. Years of training may

have to be extended to 5. Not a big deal if we care about the future of our

profession.

 

 

 

ANd if you reallt want to, you set up an entry test that weeds out people who

can't read or study. Period. Call it the CMCAT. That is what would be necessary

at most.

 

 

 

And, finally, *testing must be difficult*. Not stupidly difficult, but it must

push the students and threaten them with actual failure. Standardised tests

don't do that (they are merely stupidly difficult), but a teacher who knows you

well and has their eyes over your shoudler most of the time does.

 

 

 

I am pushing describing sane requirements in education: low student to teacher

ratio, difficult tests calibrated to the student, special focus on our base

skills and rigorous testing on them (such as pulse-taking and qi gong), and

rigorous training on red-flags and necessary miscellaneous knowledge. Secondary

focus on biomedicine only.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Hugo

 

 

 

________________________________

 

Hugo Ramiro

 

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

 

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Y,Understanding this is an important first step and then acting to give the best

info possible to the students will go a long way towards them feeling like they

are getting a decent education. No one expects perfection. Just do you best

and I am sure that they will greatly appreciate this effort.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

 

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:41:00 -0800

Re: Do we practice ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike,

 

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more. It so happens that with trepidation I accepted

an offer to teach my first class in Samra's Master's program this coming

quarter. Your blessings would certainly be appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine

 

Fri, November 27, 2009 7:05:54 AM

 

RE: Do we practice ?

 

 

 

Hugo,

 

 

 

One of the areas our profession suffers from is actual teaching ability.

 

 

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

Chinese Medicine

 

subincor

 

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:28:20 +0000

 

Do we practice ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi John, disagreed. Asking for people to be able to write and study is

different than asking people to have a prior degree. According to your stated

complaints, entrance prerequisite for TCM schooling should be a BA in English

lit. Not engineering fro example, because many engineers I know can't write, and

if they do, have no ability to view patterns and connections in the way we must.

 

 

 

And this is an issue I am surprised to not have read in this thread - prior

western degrees *can* damage a student and prevent them from fully assimilating

CM.

 

 

 

My point is simply that it is a terrible over-simplification to call for prior

western degrees as an entrance requirement expecting that it would solve more

problems than it would create.

 

 

 

Makes me think of a friend of mine who has a degree in philosophy. He took many

courses in Chinese philosophy, and yet has managed to misunderstand the bulk of

it. But boy can he write. Reams and reams. Perfect grammar, citation style based

on what is called for etc etc.

 

 

 

What I don't want is to help in the creation of more Deke Kendalls - people who

step in thinking they know something, atrociously misunderstand CM as they study

because their cup is full, but they can write, and they are people of the world

since they have multiple degrees, and then feel entitled to go about mucking

around with stuff they don't understand.

 

 

 

My main concern is about maintaining a curricula which (really) teaches CM. As

such, courses in a fully fledged school can easily comprise the mastery of said

study skills within a basic 1st and 2nd year CM curricula. Years of training may

have to be extended to 5. Not a big deal if we care about the future of our

profession.

 

 

 

ANd if you reallt want to, you set up an entry test that weeds out people who

can't read or study. Period. Call it the CMCAT. That is what would be necessary

at most.

 

 

 

And, finally, *testing must be difficult*. Not stupidly difficult, but it must

push the students and threaten them with actual failure. Standardised tests

don't do that (they are merely stupidly difficult), but a teacher who knows you

well and has their eyes over your shoudler most of the time does.

 

 

 

I am pushing describing sane requirements in education: low student to teacher

ratio, difficult tests calibrated to the student, special focus on our base

skills and rigorous testing on them (such as pulse-taking and qi gong), and

rigorous training on red-flags and necessary miscellaneous knowledge. Secondary

focus on biomedicine only.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Hugo

 

 

 

________________________________

 

 

 

Hugo Ramiro

 

 

 

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

 

 

 

http://www.middlemedicine.org