Homeopathic Tx of Clostridium difficile outbreak in hospital?

[Guest guest]

A treatment for this is Saccharomyses Bouldardii and the brand most

available is Florastor. Try this page:

http://www.florastor.com/article9fa1.html?id=2164

 

C.Diff. is prevalent in hospitals and often takes hold when one is on

antibiotics, esp. in hospital. I experienced it a couple years back

(when hospitalized for osteomyelitis of my thumb, but enough about

me). When released I did not take the Vancomycin or Flagyl as

recommended by the docs, but took Florastor and additionally a formula

from ITM called Atractylodes Tablets, which is based on BuZhong Yiqi

Tang, w/ Bupleurum and cimicifuga replaced by mume, catechu and

corydalis. The diarrhea resolved very quickly with this combination

and I had no relapse to diarrhea or any intestinal complaint.

 

Sorry, I know you asked about homeo, but that is not my forte; just

relating my experience.

ann

 

On Nov 3, 2009, at 1:30 PM, wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> There is a serious oubreak of Clostridium difficile gastroenteritis

> in a Dublin

> hospital - more than 40 clinical cases today. All clinics and

> surgeries are

> suspended until the problem can be resolved.

>

> What homeopathic remedies, protocol and potencies would you suggest?

>

> My youngest daughter (surgeon SHO there) may be able to organise a

> controlled clinical trial if the current conventional procedures do

> not work.

>

> Best regards,

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

There is a serious oubreak of Clostridium difficile gastroenteritis in a Dublin

hospital - more than 40 clinical cases today. All clinics and surgeries are

suspended until the problem can be resolved.

 

What homeopathic remedies, protocol and potencies would you suggest?

 

My youngest daughter (surgeon SHO there) may be able to organise a

controlled clinical trial if the current conventional procedures do not work.

 

Best regards,

 

[Guest guest]

HI Ann, & All,

 

> A treatment for this is Saccharomyses Bouldardii and the brand most

> available is Florastor. Try this page:

http://www.florastor.com/article9fa1.html?id=2164

 

Many thanks. The hospital is giving probiotic therapy, but I do not know what

strain.

 

Some recent papers claim great results with faecal extracts from healthy

human donors via enema or nasoduodenal tube.

 

> C.Diff. is prevalent in hospitals and often takes hold when one is on

> antibiotics, esp. in hospital. I experienced it a couple years back

> (when hospitalized for osteomyelitis of my thumb, but enough about

> me). When released I did not take the Vancomycin or Flagyl as

> recommended by the docs, but took Florastor and additionally a formula

> from ITM called Atractylodes Tablets, which is based on BuZhong Yiqi

> Tang, w/ Bupleurum and cimicifuga replaced by mume, catechu and

> corydalis. The diarrhea resolved very quickly with this combination and

> I had no relapse to diarrhea or any intestinal complaint. Sorry, I know

> you asked about homeo, but that is not my forte; just relating my

> experience. ann

 

Modified BZYQT sounds good, but IMO there is no chance that the hospital

will run trial of herbal formulas. They might (cynically) try homeopathics -

hoping that they might fail!

 

Best regards,

 

[Guest guest]

On Nov 5, 2009, at 5:38 AM, wrote:

 

> HI Ann, & All,

>

> > A treatment for this is Saccharomyses Bouldardii and the brand most

> > available is Florastor. Try this page:

> http://www.florastor.com/article9fa1.html?id=2164

>

> Many thanks. The hospital is giving probiotic therapy, but I do not

> know what

> strain.

>

>

Of course, we've known about intestinal flora for years, and regular

lactobacillus and bifidus might work as well, but there seems to be

research to the effect that S. boulardii is somehow 'specific' for C.

Diff. It sure worked for me, but of course I did also use the Chinese

herbal formula, which is very effective in controlling diarrhea. Even

the single ingredient in it, mume, has a rep for that.

The problem with probiotics is that there is enormous difference in

the products out there. When I was in hospital and tried to suggest I

should be taking flora, they kind of acquiesced and went back and

looked somewhere and said, oh yeah, we can give you some flora. So

they brought me a pill and, of course, I asked the nurse if I could

see the label ingredients. She was very indulgent (this is Quite an

unusual request, mind you) and went and got a printout. The amounts of

flora were so small I had to suppress laughter. A good product must

contain billions of bacteria per cc, should be a viable strain, and

should be refrigerated and really should be a 'sticky strain', i.e.

one that is prone to set up residence in you, not just pass thru.

 

When I was being discharged the doc was scaring the crap out of me

(haha) telling me I needed to take Flagyl (ugh) or Vancomycin p.o.

(which turned out to be not available anywhere anyway - Yay!) or it

could all turn into a mega-colon. I mean he was literally shaking his

head that I would even consider not taking the drug.

All I'm saying is that it was amazing how quickly the herbs and flora

regularized everything.

 

> Some recent papers claim great results with faecal extracts from

> healthy

> human donors via enema or nasoduodenal tube.

>

Doesn't that seem like an attempt to simply repopulate the intestinal

good bacteria?

 

>

> > C.Diff. is prevalent in hospitals and often takes hold when one is

> on

> > antibiotics, esp. in hospital. I experienced it a couple years back

> > (when hospitalized for osteomyelitis of my thumb, but enough about

> > me). When released I did not take the Vancomycin or Flagyl as

> > recommended by the docs, but took Florastor and additionally a

> formula

> > from ITM called Atractylodes Tablets, which is based on BuZhong Yiqi

> > Tang, w/ Bupleurum and cimicifuga replaced by mume, catechu and

> > corydalis. The diarrhea resolved very quickly with this

> combination and

> > I had no relapse to diarrhea or any intestinal complaint. Sorry, I

> know

> > you asked about homeo, but that is not my forte; just relating my

> > experience. ann

>

> Modified BZYQT sounds good, but IMO there is no chance that the

> hospital

> will run trial of herbal formulas. They might (cynically) try

> homeopathics -

> hoping that they might fail!

>

 

Well, don't know your doctortrons over there, but maybe you could

print up some studies re S. boulardii and hand them to them. You can

start your search w/ Wikipedia - there's a nice entry there on

Saccharomyces Boulardii. Pretty geeky page actually - those with

passing interest can just read the first 3 paragraphs on Henry

Boulardi's discovery of it before dozing off.

I'm pretty sure Florastor is available in Europe. (Other brands listed

at the wiki site.)

 

keep us posted on revolutionary progress in natural medicine at the

hospital there ;-)

ann

 

 

>

> Best regards,

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

From my notes (on kefir and kombucha, 2 popular probiotics) overall S.

boulardii appears extremely effective. Various studies could not determine

exactly why. As it seemed to work in some infants but not in others. The

theory seem to be that it was strain dependent (S. boulardii which may be

S.cervarise sub-specie and or mutated) and/or infant dependent upon the

infants stage of development at the time of intervention. The N.I.H. (cited

below) was cautious as to general widespread use or just random use of

probiotics in infants and the A.A.P. was cautious but acknowledged the

health benefit and intervention.

 

 

 

According to the National Institute of Health probiotics might theoretically

cause infections especially in people with underlying health conditions.

They could also cause unhealthy metabolic activities, too much stimulation

of the immune system, or gene transfer (insertion of genetic material into a

cell).

 

From An Introduction to Probiotics

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/probiotics/index.htm#formore

 

 

 

The American Academy of Pediatrics support their use on an individual only

basis. Probiotics should be used with caution in children with indwelling

CVC access, prolonged hospitalizations, and a recognized or potential

compromise of gut mucosal integrity. note misplaced the referencing link

(

 

 

 

the following quote is from Probiotics for Healthy Life by

<http://www.lallemandwine.com/spip.php?article75 & lang=en> Lallemand.pdf

Saccharomyces boulardii The ultimate yeast Probiotic

 

" CLOSTRIDIUM DIFFICILE AND PSEUDO-MEMBRANOUS COLITIS

 

Pseudo-membranous colitis (PMC) is the most severe form of AAD. The

microorganism responsible is C. difficile, a gram positive anaerobic

bacteria forming spores resistant to antibiotics.C. difficile also produces

two toxins, A and B.These toxins bind to specific glycoproteins in the

intestinal mucous membrane. This binding triggers the lesion process, with

disintegration of the actin filaments of the enterocytes, and increases the

intracellular permeability. Diarrhoea is the most clinically-observed sign.

The final consequence is an infiltration of the mucous membrane by

polynuclear neutrophils

 

and an edema of the submucosal membrane.Figure 1: Effect of C. difficile

toxins on intestinal villicytes. PMC is a problem for all age groups

although more of a concern for the elderly. The association of PMC with

antibiotic treatments is well established but a weak immune system,

malnutrition and aging are increasing risk factors.Nosocomial transmission

is also well established as only 3% of the general adult population is

harbouring C. difficile while it is present in 10% to 20% of hospitalized

patients. Interestingly, newborns and infants up to 2 years old are

asymptomatic carriers of C. difficile, with

 

frequency as high as 60% in newborns and 5% to 10% in infants while PMC in

this age group is very rare. It seems that either the intestine does not

have receptors for the toxins or that breast feeding protects the newborn

through specific antibodies. The treatment of PMC requires vancomycin or

 

metronidazole at high dosages. However relapse is very frequent (greater

than 20%) and can reach 60% after the first relapse. The use of the yeast

Saccharomyces boulardii has been shown particularly effective to prevent

relapse of C. difficile and more generally in the prevention and treatment

of AAD. Modern scientific research on this important yeast has revealed its

possible modes of action. "

 

 

 

 

 

Ed Kasper LAc

 

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