Guest guest Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Mike says: Many state regulatory boards are not supposed to provide legal advice and that usually includes interpretation of statutes. Seems odd when you call and want to know beforehand if you are following the law. They seem to want to force you to act and then there can be a legal reaction filed, hearing, etc. Richard responds: That's because State Agencies make money fining licensees for disciplinary actions and lawyers make money on all sides when vagueness turns into legal actions/reactions,hearings and all sorts of monkey-business. Mike says: Our statutes in many states do not allow for LAc to order lab tests, a few are different on this issue. Maybe you can find another provider such as a ND or DC in your state that will work with your patient. Best of luck in your search. Richard responds: Unless there is a specific prohibition it does not mean lab tests can't be ordered by an LAc. But if one is looking for reimbursement....that's a whole different story. Even though the Florida Board of Acupuncture allows licensees to order labs the lab companies do not have to comply and most do not. Lastly.....at least here in Florida..... there are walk in labs where people right off the street can go in and order themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Michael It all depends on statutes and rules and here in Florida the State Agency/Board HAD the legislative authority to define MODERN ORIENTAL MEDICAL TECHNIQUES and DIAGNOSTICS as used and as we all should know that in modern Oriental medicine they USE lab tests for the conventional reasons but also to verify the TCM/AOM treatment benefits. And then there is Janet Zand, OMD. Did you ever see her work? Whether its widespread accepted or not it appears to successfully translate blood tests into TCM diagnostics. No different than what tongue or pulse diagnosis does as additive information. Scope of practice is often purposefully vague just like rules. But in some states there is no mistaking that the practice scope is extremely limiting. All LAc's are not the same. As I recall some years back 5 to 6 states including but not limited to New Mexico, Florida, Colorado, West Virginia, Arkansas, South Carolina, etc....were capable of Injection Therapy and in some states are primary care providers. And these state licensees constituted, at least at one point, the majority of acupuncturists in the US but of course NOT the majority of states. As for books have you checked what is written and practiced in modern China regarding lab tests? That would tell you a lot more than what is published here. As stated before our experience in Florida is that the labs often will NOT cooperate mostly being run by MDs and their slave-masters. Richard In a message dated 09/30/09 4:19:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, Scope of practice is what determines what professions may perform and procedures may be spelled out in the state's statutes. For example, the state I live in, uses verbage that specifically defines or limits our scope by usage of limiting language such as " using Oriental medical theory " and defines terminology that limits us only to OM. This has the effect of limiting LAc's to only perform procedures that are based upon this and no where in this can labs be misinterpreted. I have not found any textbooks that connect OM theory with lab results, although Dr. Fratkin has put forth some interesting ideas of labs with OM diagnosis. That, of course, does not mean that the labs will cooperate just because. Maybe a walk-in lab can be found nearby the patient's residence. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Michael That's why many were PO'd at me (and why I was on the receiving end of multiple harassment lawsuits) .........because I saw and acted upon windows of opportunity while the " system " was asleep. One such attorney and past Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives asked me years ago (trying to be my best buddy to stop me), " how the practice act had expanded on his watch " . I just chuckled and responded that it really wasn't an expansion but an interpretation and since it was adopted into scope of practice statute..... that obviously the legislature must have had great vision. lol If you read Colorado government's opinion on LAc licensees approval for Acu-point Injection Therapy....... practitioners in other states now lacking such scope modality might consider following that logic. And not just for injection therapy.......but for other issues like lab & imaging. It sure looks like the national organizations are pushing " biomedicine " . Then why have it in school but not be able to apply it in practice? There are Administrative ways of forcing state agencies addressing issues such as previously mentioned by way of a properly drafted and filed Request for Declaratory Statement. Non of the above is meant as legal advice. Richard In a message dated 9/30/2009 4:47:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, Yes, I agree, it comes down to statutes and rules and that some states have a much narrower idea of what our scope of practice should be. In some states, our profession has successfully been able to get a much more modern view of things adopted. Keep fighting the good fight on this one and we can change things over time. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:32:34 -0400 Re: TCM - Ordering labs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Richard, Scope of practice is what determines what professions may perform and procedures may be spelled out in the state's statutes. For example, the state I live in, uses verbage that specifically defines or limits our scope by usage of limiting language such as " using Oriental medical theory " and defines terminology that limits us only to OM. This has the effect of limiting LAc's to only perform procedures that are based upon this and no where in this can labs be misinterpreted. I have not found any textbooks that connect OM theory with lab results, although Dr. Fratkin has put forth some interesting ideas of labs with OM diagnosis. That, of course, does not mean that the labs will cooperate just because. Maybe a walk-in lab can be found nearby the patient's residence. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:55:38 -0400 Ordering labs Mike says: Many state regulatory boards are not supposed to provide legal advice and that usually includes interpretation of statutes. Seems odd when you call and want to know beforehand if you are following the law. They seem to want to force you to act and then there can be a legal reaction filed, hearing, etc. Richard responds: That's because State Agencies make money fining licensees for disciplinary actions and lawyers make money on all sides when vagueness turns into legal actions/reactions,hearings and all sorts of monkey-business. Mike says: Our statutes in many states do not allow for LAc to order lab tests, a few are different on this issue. Maybe you can find another provider such as a ND or DC in your state that will work with your patient. Best of luck in your search. Richard responds: Unless there is a specific prohibition it does not mean lab tests can't be ordered by an LAc. But if one is looking for reimbursement....that's a whole different story. Even though the Florida Board of Acupuncture allows licensees to order labs the lab companies do not have to comply and most do not. Lastly.....at least here in Florida..... there are walk in labs where people right off the street can go in and order themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Richard, Yes, I agree, it comes down to statutes and rules and that some states have a much narrower idea of what our scope of practice should be. In some states, our profession has successfully been able to get a much more modern view of things adopted. Keep fighting the good fight on this one and we can change things over time. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:32:34 -0400 Re: Ordering labs Michael It all depends on statutes and rules and here in Florida the State Agency/Board HAD the legislative authority to define MODERN ORIENTAL MEDICAL TECHNIQUES and DIAGNOSTICS as used and as we all should know that in modern Oriental medicine they USE lab tests for the conventional reasons but also to verify the TCM/AOM treatment benefits. And then there is Janet Zand, OMD. Did you ever see her work? Whether its widespread accepted or not it appears to successfully translate blood tests into TCM diagnostics. No different than what tongue or pulse diagnosis does as additive information. Scope of practice is often purposefully vague just like rules. But in some states there is no mistaking that the practice scope is extremely limiting. All LAc's are not the same. As I recall some years back 5 to 6 states including but not limited to New Mexico, Florida, Colorado, West Virginia, Arkansas, South Carolina, etc....were capable of Injection Therapy and in some states are primary care providers. And these state licensees constituted, at least at one point, the majority of acupuncturists in the US but of course NOT the majority of states. As for books have you checked what is written and practiced in modern China regarding lab tests? That would tell you a lot more than what is published here. As stated before our experience in Florida is that the labs often will NOT cooperate mostly being run by MDs and their slave-masters. Richard In a message dated 09/30/09 4:19:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, Scope of practice is what determines what professions may perform and procedures may be spelled out in the state's statutes. For example, the state I live in, uses verbage that specifically defines or limits our scope by usage of limiting language such as " using Oriental medical theory " and defines terminology that limits us only to OM. This has the effect of limiting LAc's to only perform procedures that are based upon this and no where in this can labs be misinterpreted. I have not found any textbooks that connect OM theory with lab results, although Dr. Fratkin has put forth some interesting ideas of labs with OM diagnosis. That, of course, does not mean that the labs will cooperate just because. Maybe a walk-in lab can be found nearby the patient's residence. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Michael Here in Florida in 1986 the " moving of qi " statutorily CHANGED to a " form of primary care based upon traditional Chinese medicine " and diagnosing and treating illness and injury. Interesting that at the time the scope was expanded to this and ALL the education that was necessary for that change was the original TWO year program (1725 hours) plus the 60 college credits to enter school. Subsequently the Masters degree came into existence which in Florida consists of 60 credit hours from a regionally accredited school plus the 2700 hours of didactic and clinical education which equals a Bachelors in Health Science and Masters in Oriental Medicine. In reality that total number of credit hours equals a PhD confirmed verbally by the Florida Dept of Education but not recognized as such. You think things are a little screwed on backwards? Often the cart has to come before the horse...... otherwise nothing will ever change. Force the change and if there is additional education needed - it will come. One of the top Florida Senators told me in 1998 and afterwards when pushing for the FORMAL recognition by the State as " licensed physician " status and functional doctor was that all we needed to do was raise the hours just a little more to 3200 hrs......... which I believe is where the majority of schools are already at or close to. What does the profession have to do before it gets recognized....get a double PhD? As to labs/imaging.....here in Florida we added the education to the Florida AP schools even though it was beyond the ACAOM accredited program. We also made it required in continuing education for the past 9 years for those already practicing. Now are we reducing the CEU requirement for lab/imaging and changing it collectively as biomedicine. Of course the Board is trying to force pharmacology in continuing education when it doesn't exist in the school programs. More screwed on backwards. We should know that you can't properly learn pharmacology unless you have already studied the pre-requisites such as bio/organic chemistry. for example. So YES.......form of primary care and to diagnose and treat illness and injury is an important key step and as stated the quantity of education is pretty much already there. It appears that $50,000 to $80,000 for an AOM entry level so-called Masters degree isn;t enough money for the schools. Someone wants another $70,000 for the doctor title. Richard In a message dated 9/30/2009 9:08:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, Thanks for being a pioneer but lets not jump to fast into this idea as there is a rather large risk involved as well as an issue of lack of education in many of these areas you mention. I recently finished up a degree that involved a lot of radiology as well as labs. There is a lot more to that singular issue then our OM profession is able to justify taking on the risk. Almost no state is going to grant us an expansion w/o any formal training (CA is a question as it appears that an LAc has some right to order xrays but this has not been challenged nor is it the practice norm). The complete lack of education in these areas would appear to in conflict with public protection and put us at risk of lawsuits. We would have to change our scope to include the ability to diagnose, which we are very much limited to currently. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Richard, Thanks for being a pioneer but lets not jump to fast into this idea as there is a rather large risk involved as well as an issue of lack of education in many of these areas you mention. I recently finished up a degree that involved a lot of radiology as well as labs. There is a lot more to that singular issue then our OM profession is able to justify taking on the risk. Almost no state is going to grant us an expansion w/o any formal training (CA is a question as it appears that an LAc has some right to order xrays but this has not been challenged nor is it the practice norm). The complete lack of education in these areas would appear to in conflict with public protection and put us at risk of lawsuits. We would have to change our scope to include the ability to diagnose, which we are very much limited to currently. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:42:44 -0400 Re: Ordering labs Michael That's why many were PO'd at me (and why I was on the receiving end of multiple harassment lawsuits) .........because I saw and acted upon windows of opportunity while the " system " was asleep. One such attorney and past Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives asked me years ago (trying to be my best buddy to stop me), " how the practice act had expanded on his watch " . I just chuckled and responded that it really wasn't an expansion but an interpretation and since it was adopted into scope of practice statute..... that obviously the legislature must have had great vision. lol If you read Colorado government's opinion on LAc licensees approval for Acu-point Injection Therapy....... practitioners in other states now lacking such scope modality might consider following that logic. And not just for injection therapy.......but for other issues like lab & imaging. It sure looks like the national organizations are pushing " biomedicine " . Then why have it in school but not be able to apply it in practice? There are Administrative ways of forcing state agencies addressing issues such as previously mentioned by way of a properly drafted and filed Request for Declaratory Statement. Non of the above is meant as legal advice. Richard In a message dated 9/30/2009 4:47:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, Yes, I agree, it comes down to statutes and rules and that some states have a much narrower idea of what our scope of practice should be. In some states, our profession has successfully been able to get a much more modern view of things adopted. Keep fighting the good fight on this one and we can change things over time. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:32:34 -0400 Re: TCM - Ordering labs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Mike See that's a key problem with this set up. What you see for quite a number of years is the ACAOM accredited programs NATIONWIDE in CCAOM accredited schools......which apparently is more than sufficient as a form of primary care provider relationship within those few states but which contain the majority of LAc's in the US. And this has existed for many years with NO major problems. Lets face it Mike........its a business of selling dream degrees and one for $80,000 isn't enough for money for the greedy. One should be able to make a case to the legislature in those states where the scope is more or less limited to needle sticking technicians. More education is not the answer. There is plenty of education already. As I said the actual calculation of 60 credits to enter an AOM school and 2750 + hours to graduate - you already have the credit hour equivalent of a PhD. So lets not fool one another. Facts are the facts. If some of those courses need to be dropped and replaced with others - so be it. Then it should be done. On the other hand if one wants to be an MD or PA etc - then forget the acupuncture and go to medical school. There is a limit to what is necessary to understand patients medical conditions and ACAOM already has it in the accredited program and its apparently been working just fine. Richard In a message dated 10/1/2009 11:34:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, That is great for FL, CA and NM but much of this country does not see us as primarycare, let alone want to give us that chance. We are technicians in most statutes and also with our designation. Our OM education is not even close to supporting this change but must mention that our western science courses are to support our communication and understanding of the patient's condition with their doctor and are not for establishing a diagnosis. Many of the states with the better acupuncture laws were able to get changes in acupuncture legislation due to public support and not simply professional desires. CA was able to retain its status with work comp due to the increased educational standards, which are still inadequate. If an LAc was to order an xray, they would need to have someone else read it, and there could be more then a few issues of a legal nature. Work comp is all about the legal stuff, so the right person needs to be doing the right thing or else there are problems. Labs are one thing but imaging is quite another. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Richard, That is great for FL, CA and NM but much of this country does not see us as primarycare, let alone want to give us that chance. We are technicians in most statutes and also with our designation. Our OM education is not even close to supporting this change but must mention that our western science courses are to support our communication and understanding of the patient's condition with their doctor and are not for establishing a diagnosis. Many of the states with the better acupuncture laws were able to get changes in acupuncture legislation due to public support and not simply professional desires. CA was able to retain its status with work comp due to the increased educational standards, which are still inadequate. If an LAc was to order an xray, they would need to have someone else read it, and there could be more then a few issues of a legal nature. Work comp is all about the legal stuff, so the right person needs to be doing the right thing or else there are problems. Labs are one thing but imaging is quite another. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:01:35 -0400 Re: Ordering labs Michael Here in Florida in 1986 the " moving of qi " statutorily CHANGED to a " form of primary care based upon traditional Chinese medicine " and diagnosing and treating illness and injury. Interesting that at the time the scope was expanded to this and ALL the education that was necessary for that change was the original TWO year program (1725 hours) plus the 60 college credits to enter school. Subsequently the Masters degree came into existence which in Florida consists of 60 credit hours from a regionally accredited school plus the 2700 hours of didactic and clinical education which equals a Bachelors in Health Science and Masters in Oriental Medicine. In reality that total number of credit hours equals a PhD confirmed verbally by the Florida Dept of Education but not recognized as such. You think things are a little screwed on backwards? Often the cart has to come before the horse...... otherwise nothing will ever change. Force the change and if there is additional education needed - it will come. One of the top Florida Senators told me in 1998 and afterwards when pushing for the FORMAL recognition by the State as " licensed physician " status and functional doctor was that all we needed to do was raise the hours just a little more to 3200 hrs......... which I believe is where the majority of schools are already at or close to. What does the profession have to do before it gets recognized....get a double PhD? As to labs/imaging.....here in Florida we added the education to the Florida AP schools even though it was beyond the ACAOM accredited program. We also made it required in continuing education for the past 9 years for those already practicing. Now are we reducing the CEU requirement for lab/imaging and changing it collectively as biomedicine. Of course the Board is trying to force pharmacology in continuing education when it doesn't exist in the school programs. More screwed on backwards. We should know that you can't properly learn pharmacology unless you have already studied the pre-requisites such as bio/organic chemistry. for example. So YES.......form of primary care and to diagnose and treat illness and injury is an important key step and as stated the quantity of education is pretty much already there. It appears that $50,000 to $80,000 for an AOM entry level so-called Masters degree isn;t enough money for the schools. Someone wants another $70,000 for the doctor title. Richard In a message dated 9/30/2009 9:08:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, Thanks for being a pioneer but lets not jump to fast into this idea as there is a rather large risk involved as well as an issue of lack of education in many of these areas you mention. I recently finished up a degree that involved a lot of radiology as well as labs. There is a lot more to that singular issue then our OM profession is able to justify taking on the risk. Almost no state is going to grant us an expansion w/o any formal training (CA is a question as it appears that an LAc has some right to order xrays but this has not been challenged nor is it the practice norm). The complete lack of education in these areas would appear to in conflict with public protection and put us at risk of lawsuits. We would have to change our scope to include the ability to diagnose, which we are very much limited to currently. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Michael After 2,750 hours of didactic & clinic education....... as to where and how to insert acupuncture needles .........all that was really needed for Acu-Point Injection therapy was 60 hours additional and even that was overkill. A phlebotomist only has to take 45 hours to get a license in Florida. As for lab & imaging the consensus here in the year 2000 .....when they were added to our Administrative Code Rules...........was 5 hrs Lab and 3 hrs Imaging. To be clear - this was not for the practitioner to be a lab tech, nor was it for them to interpret imaging. It was the basic course work to learn the meaning of values and how to relate to those test findings. Not only was it mandated into the Florida acupuncture program (regardless of ACAOM) and it was mandated every two years in continuing education. Yes....one can spend a lifetime studying lab and imaging but that was not the need or purpose. The need was a very basic understanding. Of course one has to have the education, as always, before one can practice a specific modality. Take for example one of our rules on adjunctive therapies. There is a laundry list of inclusive acceptable modalities under the scope of practice including Ayurvedic medicine. Common sense dictates that much of the list are NOT in the ACAOM accredited program. This is the way to write rules. One does not need to micro-manage these issues. Common sense dictates that you had better take some reasonable amount of study before administering any subset modalities. That is clear direction or if you will....interpretation. This is no different than with MDs & DOs when it comes to acupuncture.....yet the system controllers prefer to skirt the issue. Its the reverse argument. MDs & DOs can " practice " acupuncture without restriction in most states and DCs only need 100 hrs in many states ........when close to nothing in the study of allopathic medicine or chiropractic medicine has anything to do with acupuncture. Unfortunately we go back to the age old discussion. But for LAc's it appears that you and too many others support this overkill in education. LAc's according to the past ACAOM accredited masters program in AOM contained approximately 450 hours of western allopathic medicine including anatomy, physiology, pathology and biomedical terminology. And HERE in Florida the schools were forced to also teach the use of laboratory and imaging test findings. Where was ACAOM on that issue? Slowly dragging their heels because they as with all the national orgs sit at the table " chewing the fat " moving like an inch worm. Possibly some 200-300 additional hours should more than cover the limited areas of basics BUT that's about all. The unfortunate issue with studying overseas........great education....... but not really recognized. And once a state gets involved with credentialization issues the profession gets watered down with all the illegals who more thank likely either paid-off someone and/or will be a slave-laborer (for $10/hr) for some corporate sponsor. That's a system which has been in place forever in allopathic medicine with HB1 visas etc. But that scheme is to long to get into here. This scheme has been pulled in Florida allowing foreigners who never took a real acupuncture course and never had another US state acupuncture license and worse than that the national testing org " gave " them some funky credential document review which purportedly is not done anymore. I have caught several of these in the past 5 years and was on them like flies on you know what.....and all of sudden those licenses did not get renewed and disappeared along with their so-called Board document certification. With 3200 + hours there is more than enough time between didactic and clinic to cover all the basics needed. Just like when I sat down with the Florida Senator who was willing to be open minded. I was suggesting 4,000 hours and he burst out laughing - advising me that that many hours were totally unnecessary. Richard In a message dated 10/1/2009 4:04:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: I hear you but respectfully disagree with the educational part of things. When you do not have any hours in some of these subjects, it is not justifiable to include it in our scope of practice. OM schools do not provide adequate coursework in labs/interpretation and/or imaging and these can be very important for patient care. I agree with you on the business of things with our OM programs and would suggest that future students consider going to study in China or Korea, as both countries have a much more complete knowledge set on both OM and science and are better able to utilize these together. Those interested might look at the new Samra Spinalcare Clinic and notice that most of their faculty are from Korean OM colleges and also using high tech MRI, xray, and even EMRs. Talk about high tech OM programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Richard, I hear you but respectfully disagree with the educational part of things. When you do not have any hours in some of these subjects, it is not justifiable to include it in our scope of practice. OM schools do not provide adequate coursework in labs/interpretation and/or imaging and these can be very important for patient care. I agree with you on the business of things with our OM programs and would suggest that future students consider going to study in China or Korea, as both countries have a much more complete knowledge set on both OM and science and are better able to utilize these together. Those interested might look at the new Samra Spinalcare Clinic and notice that most of their faculty are from Korean OM colleges and also using high tech MRI, xray, and even EMRs. Talk about high tech OM programs. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:05:28 -0400 Re: Ordering labs Mike See that's a key problem with this set up. What you see for quite a number of years is the ACAOM accredited programs NATIONWIDE in CCAOM accredited schools......which apparently is more than sufficient as a form of primary care provider relationship within those few states but which contain the majority of LAc's in the US. And this has existed for many years with NO major problems. Lets face it Mike........its a business of selling dream degrees and one for $80,000 isn't enough for money for the greedy. One should be able to make a case to the legislature in those states where the scope is more or less limited to needle sticking technicians. More education is not the answer. There is plenty of education already. As I said the actual calculation of 60 credits to enter an AOM school and 2750 + hours to graduate - you already have the credit hour equivalent of a PhD. So lets not fool one another. Facts are the facts. If some of those courses need to be dropped and replaced with others - so be it. Then it should be done. On the other hand if one wants to be an MD or PA etc - then forget the acupuncture and go to medical school. There is a limit to what is necessary to understand patients medical conditions and ACAOM already has it in the accredited program and its apparently been working just fine. Richard In a message dated 10/1/2009 11:34:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, naturaldoc1 writes: Richard, That is great for FL, CA and NM but much of this country does not see us as primarycare, let alone want to give us that chance. We are technicians in most statutes and also with our designation. Our OM education is not even close to supporting this change but must mention that our western science courses are to support our communication and understanding of the patient's condition with their doctor and are not for establishing a diagnosis. Many of the states with the better acupuncture laws were able to get changes in acupuncture legislation due to public support and not simply professional desires. CA was able to retain its status with work comp due to the increased educational standards, which are still inadequate. If an LAc was to order an xray, they would need to have someone else read it, and there could be more then a few issues of a legal nature. Work comp is all about the legal stuff, so the right person needs to be doing the right thing or else there are problems. Labs are one thing but imaging is quite another. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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