Neat Use of Egyptian (or ANY) Essential Oils ** Was: Prices & Purity

December 8, 2005

Hi everyone,

OH MY. Well, I certainly don't know a teeny tiny fraction of what

you all do about EO's. I've used them for 30 years, practice

aromatherapy and feel confident about my ability to choose quality

oils based on vibration and fragrance. Still, I have never delved

into the " details " of essential oils. I just enjoy them!!!

And, I must say, the oils I got in Egypt are exquisite. I love them!

The woman who led our trip has been to Egypt 30 times, and took us

to a " perfumery " where she knows the owner well. When we returned to

Cairo at the end of our trip, several of us wanted to return to the

perfumery, and the owner picked us up at our hotel. Obviously, he

wants Shelia to continue to bring her groups to his establishment!

OK, I do stand corrected. It's a one ounce bottle!!! I just checked.

I got the wrong thing the first time, and had to return, so they

gave me an extra ounce. I know they took good care of us because of

Shelia, but I do believe their usual price is $35 USD an ounce.

Sorry for the confusion on pricing.

Now, for neat. I realized after my return note on that question that

I may be bringing up a touchy subject. Sorry about that. Just

telling you like it is -- in Egypt anyway.

Love,

Michelle

December 8, 2005

Hi Butch,

As usual I enjoyed your post. I'll just address your comments to me.

Butch Owen <butchbsi wrote:

We must be careful to not associate or draw parallels from the

greatness of the ancient Egyptian civilization and conditions in the

Arab Republic of Egypt today. Nor should we assume because its right

for the Egyptians to do something that we should do it also.

**Good common sense, applicable accross the board. But is is amanzing, isn't

it that Archaeologists thousands of years later, are still trying to figure out

how they accomplished the phenomenal things they did with architecture, the

embalming formulas as you mentioned, etc. The advice can be posed in the

reverse as well. Should we also just assume that our knowledge and use of Oils

is superior to our experienced counterparts or that they should do what we do

because we for some reason know better.

>its not an issue I considered to be important .. >except for Carol Ann's

>comments on using EO neat. Now I must comment.

>Carol wrote:

> Just curious, I'm wondering why we import so many exquisite oils from

> around the world, > the countries themselves use the oils neat and we

dilute them.

>To answer the above .. its because we don't produce >them in the USA.

** Butch, this is information I know, my comment/question was addressed by

you, somewhat out of context. What I was implying is that these countries have

been producing EO's for longer than the US has been in existence and before US

industry experts even knew what EO's were.

>Perhaps because we are better educated than they >are .. or because we

>are aware of the dangers of using EO neat .. and >some of them are not ..

**I would say, with all due respect, the " Perhaps " may be vague,

unsubstantiated reasoning to do or not do something. Has anyone ever inquired

into their practices. Why they use them neat. The results. Their production

processes are as ancient as the countries of origin, qualitiy is often

superior, coveted and expensive. I find it hard to believe that they use oils

differently because of ignorance.

Butch wrote:

>IF they are using real EO neat in the first place.

**Butch, did you also find that they use real oils neat, regardless of

quality? My questions arise mostly from curiosity.

**I read your post about the existing health conditions and the romanticism

you once attributed to ancient cultures. What you say is true today about

disease, same holds true for India, and other third world countries and believe

it or not, our country as well.......modernization can be over kill to any

country. Today, our society, among the wealthiest in the world is dying of

flesh eating diseases and bacterial infections originating from the very

institutions designed to save. Our foods are genetically engineered and

poisened with additatives, chemicals, etc. People are overweitght, yet

nutritionally bankrupt, we have the highest rates of preventable diseases which

should not exist in such a developed country. We too, are poisining our water

systems, importing chemically laden produce, antiobioticing to death our

livestock and society. So much for wisdom and technlology.

Carol wrote:

> Personally, when I make a perfume of Myrrh, >Frankensense, Sandlewood,

> Benzoin, and a few other beautiful woodsy EO's, I >wouldnt think of

> diluting.

Butch wrote:

>I hope you are not selling them as such. If you >are then you are living

>dangerously.

** Fear not. :-) I do not sell oils or anything else. A little dab on the

wrists or behind the ears... well, I'll live dangerously. For me the jury is

still out....because I know that we in the US are forever speaking of the

dangers of sensitivity, yet the Europeans, doctors, aromatherapists, and other

health practicioners use EO's neat, even internally for certain medical

conditions.

**Granted, some people will develope sentitivity...to anything, even

knowledge. There was a time in medical history, in this country, where an

infected, pus laden wound was considered part of the natural healing process.

It was called " laudable pus " which physicians would not drain. It was left to

generate believing it was good for the patient. Blood, another common

practice, was routinely done for the common cold. If the patient grew pale, the

treatment was considered successfull. These practices stood fast until they

were better understood hundreds of years later through anatomy, physiology and

the microscope. I don't believe we have enough understanding about EO's

through research, clinical trials, either. Books on the subject are plentifut

but the information is hoplessly redundant. Most of what we know is ancedotal

with only a hand full of oils having been validly tested for clinical

performance and application.

Best regards,

Carol

I'm not meaning to dampen any happy spirits, and I know that economics

Moving down the page.

> Hi Michelle,

>

> are much different over there, but $30 USD for 2 oz of Sandalwood, Rose

> and/or Jasmine oils are less than the cost of production of those oils,

> even in Egypt (or Turkey, or India), which makes me raise an eyebrow as

> to the purity of oils for that price.

>

> Just to give you an idea of prices, even in Turkey where Rose Otto is

> produced, it costs about $15 USD for 1 ml of real, unadulterated Rose

> Otto ... but they sell plenty of fake rose oil all over the place for

> very cheap ...

>

> I know that when I deal with oil producers from any corner of the Earth,

> I do have to be very careful when it comes to getting a totally " real "

> oils. There are lots of " monkeyed " with oils out there in the world.

>

And on down a bit more.

Michelle wrote:

> The " perfume " in Egypt is actually 100% essential oils. We went to a

> perfumery and I bought the most heavenly Sandalwood (my long time

> fave) at just $30 USD for 2 ounces. Rose and jasmine are the same

> price! Since I don't make my own EO's, I bought enough to last 'til my

> next trip.

>

> Michelle

Americans (including me) often view countries that were ruled by ancient

civilizations as being romantic and wise .. and I too have often written

in a manner that presented Egypt as a paradise simply because they built

pyramids and mummified dead folks .. but my personal writings were (once

I step back and look at it from a rational point of view) just romantic.

If the oils are pure .. and if the Egyptians use them neat .. that would

not indicate they know what they're doing. Many of them also wash their

clothing, pots and pans, bodies .. and their babies in the the Nile and

MANY of them are affected with schistosomiasis.

Keep in mind that roughly 95% of the Egyptian population lives in that

fertile region within 12 miles of the Nile .. I've driven the Nile Road

south many times .. it skirts that region. On the river side you see

villages .. on the other side of the road you see desert .. so its very

easy to understand why they crowd the river.

Dysentery, typhoid and gastronomic disease are epidemic in those

Egyptian villages!

Throughout history farmers were able to grow crops in the fertile areas

created by annual floods dumping 4 million tons of nutrient rich

sediment onto the lands along the Nile .. since the Aswan Dam filled up

they now must purchase over a million tons of fertilizer a year to make

up for the loss of nutrients and what they wind up with is stagnant

water in the fields and in the reservoir .. which has resulted in half

of the previously fertile farmland becoming medium to poor soil and a

much greater rate of infection by parasitic schistosomiasis.

In addition, the stagnant waters have resulted in an increased number of

cases of mosquito born Nile Virus and sand fly arboviruses.

My point in this is not to dump on the Egyptian gummit .. though there

are few gummits in the world that I will avoid dumping on .. to include

the American gummit .. but its to point out that we can't associate the

greatness of ancient civilizations (who were great civilizations for

their time ONLY) with the actions of their present day population.

I have just touched on the status of the health of the Egyptian people

and won't belabor the point .. I'll just say that we had to stay on our

toes to ensure that our soldiers were properly immunized and even then,

there were times when we wound up having them hospitalized for this or

that ailment not found in the West. Hygiene and safety as we know it in

the West is not practiced in many places in the Middle East and Africa,

or for that matter .. in many places here in Turkey.

Uncle Sugar spent a heckuva lotta money trying to make me a so-called

" expert " in Turkey, Middle Eastern and North African countries .. and

during that period of study and travel I often got wrapped around the

axle in my writings .. presented them in a romantic fashion .. still do

that for Turkey in many cases .. but I don't want my younguns to live as

they live now .. nor do I want folks on this list to think that use of

neat EO is a good idea .. even if the some of the descendants of the

wise ancients mistakenly do that.

Again .. congratulations on your fantastic trip and the great photos you

shared with the list .. and again .. my advice to Carol and anyone else

who thinks that use of neat EO is acceptable .. is to be careful because

you are creating a potentially dangerous product.

I sell EO .. why would I advise against neat use if I did not believe

what I am writing? I can sell more EO if y'all use them neat.

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

Wholesale/Retail GC Tested EO, Tested Hydrosols, Rose Products and other

nice things sent from our store in Friendsville, MD. Pop: 597

The information contained in these e-mails is not a substitute

for diagnosis and treatment by a qualified, licensed professional.

Step By Step Instructions For Making Herbal Labna Cheese! So easy, SO yummy!

http://www.aromaticsage.com/cz.htm

To adjust your group settings (i.e. go no mail) see the following link:

/join

December 8, 2005

Hey Chris, Michelle, Carol, other good folks ..

First .. congratulations to Michelle on the completion of a great trip,

and the appreciation you gained for an ancient culture .. as well as the

fantastic photos you presented. :-)

We must be careful to not associate or draw parallels from the

greatness of the ancient Egyptian civilization and conditions in the

Arab Republic of Egypt today. Nor should we assume because its right

for the Egyptians to do something that we should do it also.

Secondly .. lemme say that what Chris has touched on below is 100%

accurate .. her comments are NOT rumor or misinformation. Not one real

Egyptian essential oils dealer will tell you that they can sell 2 ounces

(56.7 grams or 59.2 ml) of Rose Otto or Jasmine Absolute for $30 USD.

I've been to Egypt many times .. used to average 1 trip a month when I

worked for US Army Central Command .. Egypt was one of my areas of

responsibility for security coordination. I've seen the oils and other

goods they offer in the shops and in many cases they are similar to

those in the Covered Bazaar in Istanbul. Some are authentic and some

are not authentic .. but the price of $30 for 2 ounces is BELOW the cost

of production even in Egypt.

I would not have commented on this because its not important .. few

folks on this list will get the chance to buy the oils in the markets so

its not an issue I considered to be important .. except for Carol Ann's

comments on using EO neat. Now I must comment. She wrote:

> Just curious, I'm wondering why we import so many exquisite oils from

> around the world,

To answer the above .. its because we don't produce them in the USA.

> the countries themselves use the oils neat and we dilute them.

Perhaps because we are better educated than they are .. or because we

are aware of the dangers of using EO neat .. and some of them are not ..

IF they are using real EO neat in the first place.

> Were you surprised to find them being used neat?

I was surprised at finding a lot of things different in Egypt and the

rest of Africa .. as well as in the True Middle East .. which Egypt is

not a part of.

> Personally, when I make a perfume of Myrrh, Frankensense, Sandlewood,

> Benzoin, and a few other beautiful woodsy EO's, I wouldnt think of

> diluting.

I hope you are not selling them as such. If you are then you are living

dangerously.