Hydrosols ** Origin of the Term

[Guest guest]

Butch Owen <butchbsi

Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:19:26 -0800

Hydrosols ** Origin of the Term

 

 

Hi Georgene,

 

> I'm currently taking Jeanne Rose's aromatherapy correspondence course

> and just recently attended her " Vocabulary of Scent " weekend

> intensive. She does, indeed, claim to have " invented " the term

> hydrosol. Came from her own two lips.

 

Well .. what can I say? I recall back in 9th grade Literature class

one of my friends, Roy Arms, recited a poem he had written .. and some

of the students giggled .. though I was not that interested in American

literature at the time to know why they giggled. But Roy started out by

reading .. " I think that I shall never see, a poem lovely as a tree. "

Later, I found out that Kilmer had beat him to it .. but Roy will go to

his grave claiming it came to his mind as he was writing.

 

And I also recall a certain unsuccessful presidential candidate who

claimed to have invented the Internet. So who am I to question?

 

This company claims to have been around since 1946 .. name is Hydrosol

http://www.hydrosol.com/profile.htm

 

And here .. from the Atmospheric Chemistry Glossary we find Hydrosol

http://www.webref.org/chemistry/h/hydrosol.htm

 

And I won't mention all the derivatives of Hydro .. but a couple that

come to mind immediately are hydrophilic and hydrolysis ..

 

BUT .. I will mention a very important reference book I keep beside me.

Its important because I find things Americans say don't exist in this

reference .. all the time. Its my handy dandy, guaranteed to not rust,

bust or collect dust Second College Edition of Websters New World

Dictionary of the American Language, Edition 1972. On page 688 of this

dictionary it states:

 

" Hydrosol n. { Hydro + Sol (ution) } a colloidal dispersion in which

water is the dispersing medium .......... UNQUOTE

 

And since the honorable Ms. Rose insists that she invented(?) the term

in 1990 .. http://www.aromaticplantproject.com/introduction.html

 

I think it is fair to say that she has made a mistake .. at least.

 

> Interesting to finally meet her in person, to say the least. Not

> exactly what I was expecting. I enjoyed the workshop and I AM

> learning, but she's not the easiest instructor I've ever had .

 

I've heard that said .. maybe in different words .. but I understand.

 

> Georgene

 

Regards and y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

[Guest guest]

Butch Owen <butchbsi

Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:19:26 -0800

Hydrosols ** Origin of the Term

 

Hi Georgene,

 

> I'm currently taking Jeanne Rose's aromatherapy correspondence course

> and just recently attended her " Vocabulary of Scent " weekend

> intensive. She does, indeed, claim to have " invented " the term

> hydrosol. Came from her own two lips.

 

Well .. what can I say? I recall back in 9th grade Literature class

one of my friends, Roy Arms, recited a poem he had written .. and some

of the students giggled .. though I was not that interested in American

literature at the time to know why they giggled. But Roy started out by

reading .. " I think that I shall never see, a poem lovely as a tree. "

Later, I found out that Kilmer had beat him to it .. but Roy will go to

his grave claiming it came to his mind as he was writing.

 

Hmmmm, have you seen Roy since 9th grade, Butch? He still claims this, some

50 years later, whatever the time span may be? Interesting.

 

Since I was busy getting ready for our event this weekend featuring the

person in discussion's Advanced Perfumery workshop here in Snohomish, I am a

bit late in responding. However, I have been a long time friend and

associate of Jeanne Rose and I know her quite well. I also highly respect

her work in our field; her knowledge of herbalism, aromatic plants and

aromatherapy could possibly bury that of any of us here. The analogy above

is hardly applicable. You are intimating outright plagiarism, which is not

a fair comparison. First of all, the word " originated " is not analogous

with " invented " . I will give you that Georgene made this erroneous statement

first, but you certainly jumped on it with both boots, didn't you? Jeanne

Rose prefaces her statement with, " As far as I know, I 'originated' the term

in our industry. " in all situations where I have heard this claim 'from her

very lips'. She doesn't write all the material on the APP site, so some of

her original statement could be missing. I have scientific perfumery and

cosmetic books dating back to 1915, 1922 up to 1945, 1951 in which the

waters left over from aromatic plant extraction to make essential oils were

never referred to as hydrosols. They were " flower waters " or " Aqua Napthae

Triplex " (Orange Flower Water), " Rosewater " . . . books in which the authors

said . . . " that the waters distilled over with the essential oils contain

a small quantity of the latter in solution, and hence have a very agreeable

odor " , but never identified them as hydrosols. It is a well known fact that

" Rosewater " was obtained and used in antiquity, but never called a hydrosol

.. . . until??? Suzanne Catty specifies in her book that she became

interested in " hydrosols " in the early '90's. She acknowledges that the

chemistry term (hydrosol) does not refer specifically to a distillate and

can be applied to any aqueous solution. Much as Jeanne Rose would agree, I

am sure. Hydrosols (as we know them now in our industry), are also called

hydrolates, hydrolats, floral waters, distillates, and plant waters.

Suzanne Catty expands with the suggestion for a definition for aromatherapy

purposes: " Hydrosols are the condensate water coproduced during the steam-

or hydro-distillation of plant material for aromatherapeutic purposes. " I

believe that this is akin to the definition of the word that Jeanne Rose

perhaps originated. Ms. Catty, the most recent researcher/author on the

subject of hydrosols, does not challenge Ms. Rose, and most probably both of

them could care less about this ridiculous challenge.

 

Here is the complete and original quote from J. Rose . . . " Hydro means

water and 'sol' means solution. Thus, the word hydrosol means the watery

solution of distillation that contains both water-soluble plant components

and micro-drops of essential oil . . . the " hydrosol " . She was talking

about our industry and aromatic plant distillation. She knew the word was

used in other instances. Of course she does. If you can find use of the

word to define what we in aromatherapy now call hydrosols earlier than when

she termed it in her paper written in 1989 or 1990, she would no doubt

quickly agree someone else came up with the term, but that person was

unknown to her at the time.

 

And I also recall a certain unsuccessful presidential candidate who

claimed to have invented the Internet. So who am I to question?

 

I know that Chris doesn't want " politics " on the list. Politics pervades

everything; it is integral to all we do. IMO, to limit political discussion

is to limit complete life, but Chris and the other listmasters are the

masters at the table here. She should allow this response, however, if she

considers herself a fair person because she has allowed you the above

freedom and should fairly allow a countering viewpoint. What you are

touting, Butch, is Republican " talking points " (actually many of us call

them lies), which are a construction of the Right Wing " Noise " Machine, with

no apparent qualms about lying to win arguments, cover up and distort truth.

We hear/see them repeated ad nauseum on mainstream media, especially FOX

News, which is owned by heavy supporters of this failed administration.

What does this have to do with this discussion? Nada. It appears that you

use it as an opportunity to twist the conversation to make an ugly point and

demean someone you don't know much about. Al Gore or Jeanne Rose. Al Gore

has done much to protect the environment (which aught to mean something to

folks in our industry) while GW has done his best to destroy it. This is

fact. Al Gore never claimed to have " invented " the internet, just as Jeanne

Rose has never claimed to " invent " the word hydrosol. Further, there are

facts that counter whether Gore was unsuccessful, recently elaborated by

former President Jimmy Carter in a speech at an American University panel in

Washington recently. He told the crowd that he was certain that Al Gore won

the 2000 presidential election; that there was " no doubt " in his mind and

that the 2000 election process " failed abysmally. " He also stated

(correctly by law) that the Supreme Court should have never gotten involved

and that it was " highly partisan " . I, for one, would be more inclined to

believe the veracity of the facts that back up this statement by a former

President of the United States than your opinion in this regard, Butch.

 

This company claims to have been around since 1946 .. name is Hydrosol

http://www.hydrosol.com/profile.htm

 

And, what does this company have to do with plant aromatics? They produce

aerosol containers and such. You appear to confuse the specific reference

and discussion with what appears to be " spin " , somewhat cleverly just like

the Republican " Noise " Machine.

 

And here .. from the Atmospheric Chemistry Glossary we find Hydrosol

http://www.webref.org/chemistry/h/hydrosol.htm

 

And I won't mention all the derivatives of Hydro .. but a couple that

come to mind immediately are hydrophilic and hydrolysis ..

 

BUT .. I will mention a very important reference book I keep beside me.

Its important because I find things Americans say don't exist in this

reference .. all the time. Its my handy dandy, guaranteed to not rust,

bust or collect dust Second College Edition of Websters New World

Dictionary of the American Language, Edition 1972. On page 688 of this

dictionary it states:

 

" Hydrosol n. { Hydro + Sol (ution) } a colloidal dispersion in which

water is the dispersing medium .......... UNQUOTE

 

Well, well . . . doesn't this look similar to what Ms. Rose said? Again, to

'coin' a phrase in the context where it didn't exist before isn't analogous

with " invention' of the term, especially one that is well known in another

context. She uses the word to define something that had perhaps not

previously been called such in the context of aromatic plant distillation,

but is a true and correct term.

 

And since the honorable Ms. Rose insists that she invented(?) the term

in 1990 .. http://www.aromaticplantproject.com/introduction.html

 

I think it is fair to say that she has made a mistake .. at least.

 

You haven't proven that a mistake has been made . . . . Doesn't mean you

can't (with the appropriate research) perhaps someone did coin the word

applicable to aromatherapy before she did . . . and doesn't mean she

wouldn't be the first to admit that someone else went there first if they

did. Not her style to lie or claim something she doesn't own . . . or to

plagiarize. . . in fact, many, many people have plagiarized her work over

the years.

 

> Interesting to finally meet her in person, to say the least. Not

> exactly what I was expecting. I enjoyed the workshop and I AM

> learning, but she's not the easiest instructor I've ever had .

 

I've heard that said .. maybe in different words .. but I understand.

 

Which means that your opinion here is only gossip . . . " you've heard " . . .

you have no valid opinion that derives from first-hand research, study or

observation. Therefore, your opinion here isn't worth much, is it.?

Anyone who has studied with Jeanne Rose knows that she is a taskmaster; she

expects much of her students. She doesn't coddle them. We need more

teachers like her. She will push you to accomplishment. She also gets

cranky sometimes. Big deal. You aught to know what that is, Butch.

 

> Georgene

 

Regards and y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

 

Nothing you said here made me smile, Butch. Quite the opposite. Looks

somewhat like frivolous and petty pomposity meant to degrade a fine scholar

and author. Take your pick, Al Gore or Jeanne Rose. And, it makes Chris'

list look a lot like what folks think of Idma these days, . . . don't know

how you feel about apologies, but I feel that you owe at least one. Ms.

Rose's email address is in the cc: don't know Al Gore's.

 

 

Be well,

 

Marcia Elston, Samara Botane, http://www.wingedseed.com/katrina.htm

 

" First of all, cultivate a contented spirit; a garden is a good place to

begin. "