Supply Review Group

[Guest guest]

Hey Butch,

 

I'm so glad you wrote this. I am a fairly new member of Supply Group.

Did read Martin's letter to the list. As I respect Martin, I didn't think

anything about it.

Was shocked by all the was written about his post.

Didn't know who else was on that list, but thought Anya was.

Just she was without power at the time.

Know it would take someone that could put the right words to correct

all the negitive stuff.

 

Thanks for this letter, it has been nothering me sense I read all that crap.

LOL, I will be kicked off next.

 

Smiles :- )

Nancy

 

 

What the List Mom of Supply Group does not know (I believe) is that

perhaps 80-90 of her members are members because I REFERRED THEM TO HER

LIST last November and December! If she checks her stats she will see

a

great increase in membership during that period. When someone is dead

wrong they should have the intestinal fortitude to admit it! When that

happens it shows character and integrity .. and growth occurs. Nobody

ever criticized anyone for admitting they were wrong.

 

I think the behavior and slant of the posts that were made on Supply

Group were tacky, emotional knee jerks .. at best .. maybe even mean

spirited as a result of getting peed off at Martin. What I did not

know

until that particular thread came up was that the List Mom also bore a

grudge against Chris (our List Mom) and me. That is when I checked and

learned that that List Mom was a member of Oils & Herbs.

 

Y'all have a nice day .. and keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Just for accuracy, I don't believe the actual list owner of that group

is here (Tina), but I know quite a few members from there, including

list mama moderators, are here - and so is the gal who made the

" guerilla marketing " comment - happily posting ads on Thursday

 

*Smile*

Chris (the evil list mom - working fast to get all the in stock vanilla

bean orders out of here before Hurricane Rita possibly hits here at the

end of the week :-o )

 

Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks

you can think up if only you try!

- Dr Seuss

 

<http://www.alittleolfactory.com/> http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Butch Owen

 

<snipped>

I want to tell folks on this list that the Supply Review Group refused

to allow a reference to Oils & Herbs on their list .. the post (from

Martin Watt) was censored and the list addy of Oils & Herbs was removed.

The comment by the List Mom was that she was disgusted when she saw

the link and recommendation that people join Oils & Herbs .. she called

it guerilla marketing tactics ..

<snipped> I think the behavior and slant of the posts that were made on

Supply

Group were tacky, emotional knee jerks .. at best .. maybe even mean

spirited as a result of getting peed off at Martin. What I did not know

until that particular thread came up was that the List Mom also bore a

grudge against Chris (our List Mom) and me. That is when I checked and

learned that that List Mom was a member of Oils & Herbs.

 

Y'all have a nice day .. and keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch http://www.AV-AT.com .. purveyor of all kinds of PROVEN QUALITY

products .. and one who has little tolerance for Bovine Excrement!

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 10:18 AM 9/20/2005, you wrote:

> , Butch Owen <butchbsi@s...> wrote:

>

>I want to tell folks on this list that the Supply Review Group refused

>to allow a reference to Oils & Herbs on their list .. the post (from

>Martin Watt) was censored and the list addy of Oils & Herbs was removed.

 

Hi Butch, all:

 

I'm outing myself on this. I'm the one who wrote Martin about puffery and

BS on the group about Pappas and his website. I refuse to call it

" university " . Feh. So, Martin joined the group and all hell broke loose.

Truth has a way of doing that, shattering misconceptions and threatening

those who want to hold on to their agenda.

 

Anyway, re: Pappas: someone who adores him, the glass bottles, the oils I

would never buy*, had a bit of really incorrect, unsafe info on oils on her

website. Martin decided to join the group to talk about suppliers (group

agenda) and safety (obviously not group agenda.)

*there are a LOT of reasons I won't buy his oils, and warn others against them.

 

>The comment by the List Mom was that she was disgusted when she saw

>the link and recommendation that people join Oils & Herbs .. she called

>it guerilla marketing tactics .. but on that list we see folks praising

>some of the most ridiculous crap you could imagine .. falling all over

>themselves to honor the supposed attributes of some of the real slick

>marketers in this industry .. folks who can baffle rookies and amateurs

>with BS because of their credentials.

 

Ahem. yes, indeedy. Wonder who you can be talking about ? ;-)

 

>The List Mama (Chris) of Oils & Herbs allows referrals to the Supply

>Review Group though the List Mama of Supply Review does not allow any

>referrals to Oils & Herbs. Is that fair?

 

I sent my perfumery group members there, but truthfully, since they only

seem to discuss FOs there, its not of much use to us. The List owner is on

my group, she joined after she saw a bunch of my people join there.

 

>It went on to state that those two people (Chris and I) set themselves

>up as gurus of all things and EO .. and if you don't agree with them

>they are extremely nasty. So Chris and I are bad guys but those who

>praise the BS statements made by others who make a living selling their

>products are allowed .. IF .. the List Mom likes them.

 

I didn't post there, and I never do, because I was attacked, publicly, by

the list owner when I joined. She was baffled by my spam trap (verify

email) and posted that I must be a spammer, that my ID was in the

adult section (my ID says nothing besides I'm a female), and she posted my

name and email address in a very mocking, threatening manner. I reported it

to TOS, and in two days, the libelous statements about me disappeared

from the messages. So I lurk.

 

 

>Have any of you folks ever seen Chris be nasty? I think not. I am not

>nasty either .. just direct ..

 

I don't think Tina, the list owner would disagree that she is nasty. She

makes no bones about it, that's her way. She uses !!!!! and CAPS all the

time when writing. Hippocrates termed that kind of behavior a choleric

personality. She has a very hyper, nasty style. Folks can accept it, or

leave. I accept it because it's not aimed at me. Well, not anymore, lol.

 

Butch, honey, I just snipped three paragraphs that were very defensive. You

have no need to be defensive or feel you have to validate your existence or

reputation, or Chris'. Oy, the energy that gets expended trying to right a

wrong!

 

snipped all the stuff about Martin to save bandwidth, but also because we

all know Martin rules. Period. That information was withheld from her

group, which is sad. Yeah, Martin blustered in and fumbled the pass, but

everyone should be given a second chance.

 

>Even Anya, the List Mom of Natural Perfumery (which allows no ads) asked

>me to post on EO safety and Plant Aromatics to her List .. and she has

>posted on it many times herself. If y'all wanna know about perfume, go

>to NaturalPerfumery/ ..

 

I've always allowed ads on the first of the month, and frequently have

" long weekend " ads. We've also relaxed the discussion on suppliers on the

group after a few malcontents left. I had allowed them to bully me too much

about their agenda, and I fixed it after I booted them. We just had a nice

big babble about Chris Vanilla co-op, for instance ;-) Chris is a moderator

there, btw, so we're all cross-pollinated in a way!

 

>Supply Group barred Martin Watt from their list.

>To throw the baby out with the bath water is not smart .. but that's

>what happened on the Supply Group.

 

I totally agree. Put him on moderation, but don't ban him, and certainly

don't libel him -- or you, or chris, or me.

 

>Odds are the List Mom of Supply Group will bar me from her list as a

>result of me making this post .. but I don't give a rat's butt because I

>gain nothing from that list anyway.

>but its really about Fragrance Oils .. you will learn little of value

>about essential oils or safety on that list.

 

May happen. May not. Let's see if she can take this discussion to heart. If

she is on Special Notices here, she may never see it, unless someone

forwards it to her.

 

>What the List Mom of Supply Group does not know (I believe) is that

>perhaps 80-90 of her members are members because I REFERRED THEM TO HER

>LIST

 

I've done the same, and I don't believe it was ever reciprocated -- not

that that was ever asked for, or expected, truly.

 

Butch, one thing I'd like to discuss about that group, if it's not too

off-topic for this thread:

When first started, she asked members to write in with their ratings on

suppliers and vote. Stuff like great service, fast shipping, would buy from

again, wouldn't buy from again, would recommend to others, etc. were

criteria they voted on in polls. Those polls were posted as a database, and

anybody could go there and read the ratings. You, of course, were gold

there. It was a really great resource, IMO, one of the main pillars of the

group.

 

Then she removed it, and it has never been restored. Do you know why? It

seemed very fair, impartial, and a lot of people, myself included, took

time to put work into it.

 

>I think the behavior and slant of the posts that were made on Supply

>Group were tacky, emotional knee jerks .. at best .. maybe even mean

>spirited as a result of getting peed off at Martin.

 

What singed my curls was the fact that for a supposedly non-chat list,

every slam, every nasty against Martin and you and Chris was allowed in a

chatty, " I'm so much better than them " manner. Despite her CAPS SHOUTING on

the front of the group homepage that no bashing, insulting, etc., could

take place on her group, she libeled me, mockingly and fiercely, because

she didn't understand my spam trap, and oh, yes, I made the unforgivable

mistake of going " no email " when I joined, since I missed the part of the

rules forbidding that. That was really disgusting. And hypocritical. And I

see it still goes on.

 

http://naturalperfumery.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

" The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. "

[Guest guest]

I have to note here that I missed the posts concerning Martin, due to

being kicked off that particular list due to the content of my

personal blog. So I'm not the most unbiased opinion, so will keep mine

to myself.

Serra

 

On 9/20/05, Christine Ziegler <chrisziggy wrote:

> Just for accuracy, I don't believe the actual list owner of that group

> is here (Tina), but I know quite a few members from there, including

> list mama moderators, are here - and so is the gal who made the

> " guerilla marketing " comment - happily posting ads on Thursday

>

> *Smile*

> Chris (the evil list mom - working fast to get all the in stock vanilla

> bean orders out of here before Hurricane Rita possibly hits here at the

> end of the week :-o )

>

> Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks

> you can think up if only you try!

> - Dr Seuss

>

> <http://www.alittleolfactory.com/> http://www.alittleolfactory.com

>

 

 

 

--

Reserve now for handmade 100% cotton washcloths!

Information at:

http://scentedbusiness.blogspot.com

Note the URL change for business-related postings!

[Guest guest]

I wondered when someone would come out and say something!

 

I was so offended by the behavior of the list mom and members of that group,

that after I settled down, I wrote a lengthy post informing them just WHO

Martin Watt is and what he is. I will say that I stated in that post that

even though Martin may have done something they didn't like (the emailing

directly to members), that the list Mom herself broke her own rules and

publicly bashed or flamed him. I called it chewing a new A$% or something

like that.

 

Anyway, of course it wasn't posted even after I asked for it to be allowed

in all fairness, so that folks on that list could get an idea of just who

Martin is and how to find out about credible eo safety info. I did get a

note from the list mom as to why she wasn't going to allow it.

 

And I don't rightly care if I get unsubbed next.

 

Thanks Butch for writing this post.

 

Sincerely,

Margaret

 

 

>

>Hi Julie .. other good folks ..

>

>Julie .. nothing personal or directed to you in my post .. its about a

>strong dislike for an attitude on the Supply Review Group!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Julie .. other good folks ..

 

Julie .. nothing personal or directed to you in my post .. its about a

strong dislike for an attitude on the Supply Review Group!

 

Since the List Mom of Oils & Herbs is allowing referrals to Supply

Review Group .. I think its fair for me to make this post .. those who

don't like it .. tough! If it sounds like I am a bit angry its only

because I am .. I am very angry! This is my ornery post of the month.

 

Amateurs and rookies I like to help .. I spend a lot of time helping

them on and off list .. but when lambs try to roar like lions .. I'll

step in and remind them that they are still lambs .. if they want to be

lions they need to hang out with the lions for a while and learn how

they function .. such is the intent of this post.

 

> Just wanted to let you know I just approved six memberships to the

> SupplyReview Group, and I have a feeling most, if not all, were from

> this group. I just want to welcome you here, because the SupplyReview

> group is not a chatty one, and you may not get a welcome. However, I

> wanted to let you know that all of you are welcome!

> By the way, still looking for a tamarind source......sigh....

> ~Julie

 

I want to tell folks on this list that the Supply Review Group refused

to allow a reference to Oils & Herbs on their list .. the post (from

Martin Watt) was censored and the list addy of Oils & Herbs was removed.

The comment by the List Mom was that she was disgusted when she saw

the link and recommendation that people join Oils & Herbs .. she called

it guerilla marketing tactics .. but on that list we see folks praising

some of the most ridiculous crap you could imagine .. falling all over

themselves to honor the supposed attributes of some of the real slick

marketers in this industry .. folks who can baffle rookies and amateurs

with BS because of their credentials.

 

The List Mama (Chris) of Oils & Herbs allows referrals to the Supply

Review Group though the List Mama of Supply Review does not allow any

referrals to Oils & Herbs. Is that fair? I will take it further and

report some of the negative discussion on the Supply Review Group about

this list .. about Chris .. and me .. I do this with a clean conscience

because it was all discussion in an open forum. In particular Chris was

referred to as someone who sells their own oils and who gets them from

another list member who is also on the list (that's me) .. and a catty

comment was made that Martin's recommendation contained a hidden agenda.

 

Anybody see anything wrong with a List Mom (Chris) who has a husband and

two young rug rats .. and wants to supplement her family's income ..

taking 65-70 hours a week to run a list that educates folks .. but at

the same time promotes her products? Do we expect her to be another

Mother Theresa .. to be a martyr for this cottage industry? And as you

all know .. Chris allows open ads on each and every Thursday .. and ads

throughout the week with her permission .. so she also lets you folks

promote your products. Is capitalism disgusting .. HELL NO .. its the

American way of life!

 

It went on to state that those two people (Chris and I) set themselves

up as gurus of all things and EO .. and if you don't agree with them

they are extremely nasty. So Chris and I are bad guys but those who

praise the BS statements made by others who make a living selling their

products are allowed .. IF .. the List Mom likes them.

 

Have any of you folks ever seen Chris be nasty? I think not. I am not

nasty either .. just direct .. and I tolerate little Bovine Excrement

when it comes to misinformation, disinformation, rumor and marketing

hype about how this and that is done .. on safety issues .. and on

therapeutic properties of various oils. As I said in the beginning, I

will spend as much time as necessary to help new folks learn the safe

and proper way to use EO .. but I have no tolerance for amateurs who do

not recognize that they are amateurs and who let their mouths overload

their butts .. such people are (to me) students .. not teachers! They

can become teachers in time IF they take the time to listen to those who

are teachers now .. and do not allow unprofessional personal feelings to

cloud their judgment!

 

Shoot, Ready, Aim mentality is disgusting to me!

 

Many on this list have received posts off line from me recommending they

NOT purchase a particular oil for a particular purpose FROM ME or anyone

else because the purported therapeutic value of the oil for the purpose

they intended to use it was hawg warsh!

 

I invite ANY of my buyers to openly comment NEGATIVELY about the price

or quality of my products .. about the personal assistance I give to my

friends and customers when they write me .. and/or the service provided

by the employees in my company .. if there are any dissatisfied buyers

out there they have not made it known to me .. but I get dozens of nice

posts each week .. and I take the time to thank them because I greatly

appreciate their kindness and because they took the time to thank me.

 

I am truly a professional .. and I don't mean a professional in this

cottage industry .. my bar and restaurant bill is basically covered by

what I make from my company .. but I keep three folks employed full time

in an area of Appalachia that is economically depressed .. and I'm able

to satisfy customers and friends from 50 states and 67 other countries

with the quality and price of my products .. and the level of service

supplied by my employees. I'm a retired professional U.S. Army Officer

and a retired law enforcement officer .. a retired corporate executive

and diplomat .. a retired intelligence officer .. a retired political

analyst .. a volunteer search and rescue expert during disasters like

earth quakes and such .. and a few other things I won't go into now. I

do what I want to do in my life .. and what I want to do has been, to

date, honorable effort that makes me proud for my children to pass along

to their children. My dealings with essential oils is not a hallmark of

my career .. its something I like to do and when I stop liking it I'll

quit and go fishing. I spend a heckuva lotta my free time educating

folks on and off list .. time I could spend chasing purty gals, sitting

with friends at the Pub .. reading .. and even working to upgrade my web

site. Many of these folks are NOT my customers .. but they still

deserve to hear it like it really is rather than how they would like to

hear it from some con artist or misinformed honest person.

 

Yes .. I am a professional when it comes to essential oils .. I am damn

well informed and not easily impressed by the common rumors in this

industry .. even those regurgitated by so called " experts " who write

many of the AT novels. Chris Ziegler is one of the most professional

people I know .. its amazing that a young ex-Yankee like her could have

gained so much accurate information in so short a life time .. but she

has worked in the natural products industry since long before she got

out of high school. Rookies we are not .. nor is Martin!

 

Martin Watt was barred from the Supply Review list .. his behavior and

personality was discussed at length by the List Mom of Supply Review

Group .. and that List Mom is also a member of Oils & Herbs!

 

Prior to the removal of Martin .. the List Mom said she didn't know who

he was but he was being removed. That statement alone should be enough

to tell folks that the Supply Review Group is not about essential oils

and safety .. there are NO PROFESSIONALS in the entire industry that

would say they don't know Martin Watt! Matters not if they like him,

they know him .. and they respect his knowledge and integrity! Martin

is a personal friend of mine and I hold him in great esteem .. and I

accept that sometimes he comes across in writing like a Troll. ;-)

 

Also .. many folks on that list wrote me and asked me to post on EO

safety because there was a lot of BS unsafe discussion on use of neat

oils. I took the time and wrote a long post .. my post to Supply Review

reference EO safety and Plant Aromatics was not allowed and I received a

catty reply from the List Mom as to why she wouldn't allow it. I do not

embellish when I say the post she sent me explaining why she refused to

allow my post to appear on her list was one of the most ridiculous and

unprofessional posts I have ever received .. and it boiled over with

personal feelings about Martin .. accused me of using his words. Never

has and never will Martin be the writer I am .. but that is not an issue

that should be considered when allowing a post to appear on a list. As

I said .. Martin will never write as I do .. but I will never be as

informed in the field of natural products as he is. By the way .. the

post I sent .. the post that was rejected .. is next on this list. You

will note that I purposely avoided using Martin's name in that post as I

knew it would trigger a seismic disturbance.

 

Oh yea .. I didn't bother to answer the List Mom .. her post was not

deserving of a reply by me!

 

Even Anya, the List Mom of Natural Perfumery (which allows no ads) asked

me to post on EO safety and Plant Aromatics to her List .. and she has

posted on it many times herself. If y'all wanna know about perfume, go

to NaturalPerfumery/ .. there are no

hidden agendas on Oils & Herbs .. I am not the List Owner .. I am a

monitor .. but I know the policies of the List Mom and I know that she

will refer folks to any list that she thinks is worthwhile.

 

Supply Group barred Martin Watt from their list. Why? Because he came

on in his normally gruff, anti-social manner and laid out some safety

information .. and referenced the Oils & Herbs List .. and he sent his

message to a number of list members off line because he knew it was not

going to be allowed on the list. That was bad form and I would chew his

ass if he did it on my list (I have none) .. so would Chris .. but that

is Martin's way and he is not going to change. If we wanna see a

Rainbow we gotta stand a little rain. Those who know Martin stopped

listening to his bluster 20 + years ago - they listen to his message.

To throw the baby out with the bath water is not smart .. but that's

what happened on the Supply Group.

 

Odds are the List Mom of Supply Group will bar me from her list as a

result of me making this post .. but I don't give a rat's butt because I

gain nothing from that list anyway. Those who are into quality of EO

and safety will gain nothing from that list .. those who want to know

which company sells the best smelling Fragrance Oils and who will

actually send the product after you pay for it will gain much from that

list .. its really about who is the worst of the worst and who can charm

the most buyers with either smooth talk or actual good performance ..

but its really about Fragrance Oils .. you will learn little of value

about essential oils or safety on that list.

 

In the last 10 + years I've watched a lot of Consumer Service type lists

be born .. and die. The concept is a good one .. IF .. we lived in a

perfect world .. but the credibility of those who are honest reporters

is questionable because of their lack of knowledge in the world of

Essential Oil quality and safety .. its about who do you like and who

actually sent a product after you paid for it. Not bad this but the

credibility of the reporting is often diluted by personal feelings.

 

As I said .. I might be barred from Supply Group. I will not lose a

second of sleep if it happens .. and if it happens .. there will also be

a barring from Oils & Herbs .. take that to the bank. Anybody wanna bet

against that you better have some extra cash to lose. ;-)

 

What the List Mom of Supply Group does not know (I believe) is that

perhaps 80-90 of her members are members because I REFERRED THEM TO HER

LIST last November and December! If she checks her stats she will see a

great increase in membership during that period. When someone is dead

wrong they should have the intestinal fortitude to admit it! When that

happens it shows character and integrity .. and growth occurs. Nobody

ever criticized anyone for admitting they were wrong.

 

I think the behavior and slant of the posts that were made on Supply

Group were tacky, emotional knee jerks .. at best .. maybe even mean

spirited as a result of getting peed off at Martin. What I did not know

until that particular thread came up was that the List Mom also bore a

grudge against Chris (our List Mom) and me. That is when I checked and

learned that that List Mom was a member of Oils & Herbs.

 

Y'all have a nice day .. and keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch http://www.AV-AT.com .. purveyor of all kinds of PROVEN QUALITY

products .. and one who has little tolerance for Bovine Excrement!

[Guest guest]

I'm on 2 different supply review lists. Obviously I missed something on

one of them lol. The link I posted the other day was for the one your

all NOT talking about lol.

 

Veronica Davidson

<http://www.veronicaslavishlathers.com>

http://www.veronicaslavishlathers.com

<http://www.friendswithms.com> http://www.friendswithms.com

_____

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Welllll, since I am the one who started all of this with my initial

CG post, I just have to ask, what is wrong with Pappas'(EOU) oils? I

have purchased several oils from him and have not detected any off

odors. I know this is not always an indication of therapuetic

quality so I was relying on the data provided on his site to be

reliable and of good science. If this is not true, then please fill

me in. I am a relative newbie in the industry and self-taught on

essential oils (school is hopefully in the near future) so any help

and direction is greatly appreciated.

 

Also, if Butch is reading this, I would like clarification from you

concerning the effect of light on eos. On the aforementioned (EOU)

site he (Pappas) justifies using frosted glass in a

seemingly " scientific " manner. Enlighten me please!

 

I am not trying to cause any trouble here! I joined this group to

learn and I am thrilled with the knowledge that Chris and Butch and

everyone else is willing to share.

 

Keep safe to all in the path of yet another hurricane! Warm regards

and continue to be,

 

Lori

 

, Anya <mccoy@n...> wrote:

> BS on the group about Pappas and his website. I refuse to call it

> " university " . Feh. >

> Anyway, re: Pappas: someone who adores him, the glass bottles, the

oils I

> would never buy*, had a bit of really incorrect, unsafe info on

oils on her

> website. Martin decided to join the group to talk about suppliers

(group

> agenda) and safety (obviously not group agenda.)

> *there are a LOT of reasons I won't buy his oils, and warn others

against them.

>