Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 First I don't know anything about the refining process but I researched meadowfoam oil and some of the data sheets talked about it being a very stinky oil and it all had to be refined to over come this. So if this is true, wouldn't the 'unrefined' be a marketing thing to just charge more? Also they stated it was a good sub for jojoba oil. Zo www.bosquebathandbody.com >> >> >>> >> >>> So at EssentialWholesale.com, meadowfoam seed oil is $45 for 16oz of >> >>> the unrefined stuff! >> >> And does >> >>> anyone know where to get the virgin oil cheaper? > > essential wholesale has the refined at $15 per lb...it's their virgin > unrefined that's so costly. > > and " nature's wild child " doesn't state the extraction method. > > When a supplier offers both types, it's really not fair to compare prices > unless you know you are comparing apples to apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 >So if this is true, wouldn't the 'unrefined' be a marketing thing< >to just charge more?< Well done Zonella you spotted one of the biggest cons in the aromatherapy supply business. In most cases the refined oils are far more beneficial for skin or cosmetic use than the unrefined oils. The refined oils are purified products that are far more compatible with essential oils. They don't cover the smell of the essential oils with fatty greasy notes. The advantage in unrefined fixed oils is for their benefits in foods because of their high vitamin and mineral content. We do not feed ourselves via the skin, and fixed oils only go as far as the dead layers of skin. Therefore, applying unrefined fixed oils to the skin is not more beneficial than refined oils Martin Watt http://www.aromamedical.com , " Zonella Gould " <zonella@t...> wrote: > First I don't know anything about the refining process but I researched > meadowfoam oil and some of the data sheets talked about it being a very > stinky oil and it all had to be refined to over come this. So if this is > true, wouldn't the 'unrefined' be a marketing thing to just charge more? > Also they stated it was a good sub for jojoba oil. > Zo > www.bosquebathandbody.com > > > >> > >> >>> > >> >>> So at EssentialWholesale.com, meadowfoam seed oil is $45 for 16oz of > >> >>> the unrefined stuff! > >> >> And does > >> >>> anyone know where to get the virgin oil cheaper? > > > > essential wholesale has the refined at $15 per lb...it's their virgin > > unrefined that's so costly. > > > > and " nature's wild child " doesn't state the extraction method. > > > > When a supplier offers both types, it's really not fair to compare prices > > unless you know you are comparing apples to apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 In a message dated 8/13/2005 6:30:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aromamedical-2 writes: We do not feed ourselves via the skin, and fixed oils only go as far as the dead layers of skin. Therefore, applying unrefined fixed oils to the skin is not more beneficial than refined oils Martin, I am kind of confused about what the body does absorb through the skin. I have read that the body is particularly vulnerable to lipid soluble chemicals with regard to exposure to toxins. Wouldn't that be true of lipid soluble nutrients and beneficial chemicals as well? I am not under the impression that substances can " feed " our bodies by entering the digestive system through the skin, but rather chemicals entering our system via the bloodstream and lymph system through skin absorption. Do you (or anyone else that might chime in) have any wisdom to share regarding what the skin does absorb? Thanks, Mary Alana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 I think the con here is mostly poor labeling requirements + lack of good consumer info/education... expeller pressing/cold pressing are good processes, but unless an oil *says* " unrefined " on the label, it's almost certainly refined. And either way, there are questions about how the oil is pressed (is the oil kept unexposed to oxygen before the end user opens it?) and stored (in darker bottles that block out more light?). >Well done Zonella you spotted one of the biggest cons in the >aromatherapy supply business. The health food business, too. > In most cases the refined oils are far >more beneficial for skin or cosmetic use than the unrefined oils. Are they also more beneficial for the rest of the body? And for the environment? Citations? > The >refined oils are purified products " Purified " is one word you can use... " denatured " is another... it's interesting to see how word choice can cast a subject in entirely different lights. >The advantage in unrefined fixed oils is for their benefits in foods >because of their high vitamin and mineral content. Not to mention their lack of rancidity (when buying high quality... there are plenty of low quality unrefined oils on the market, stored in clear bottles, etc.). >We do not feed >ourselves via the skin, and fixed oils only go as far as the dead >layers of skin. Therefore, applying unrefined fixed oils to the skin >is not more beneficial than refined oils That is one line of thought on the subject, and not one accepted without question. For example, are traces of solvents used in oil extraction/refining left in any of these oils (I don't know)? If so, to what degree of certainty can it be shown that these things are not absorbed? And either way, is the use of these chemicals sustainable (i.e. not derived from petrochemicals)? How are the chemicals handled and disposed of? I'd be pleased to be allowed to share another perspective. But I have a workshop in about 20 minutes, so that will be for another email! :-) Best, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Fixed oils are not absorbed by the skin into the body. That was proven in trials on premature babies where they were hoping to boost their level of one vitamin or fatty acid, I think it was using safflower oil. It did not work. Got that reference somewhere. Do not get tied up with fancy theories on why things may or may not work when the facts are out there. Martin , wngsolight@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 8/13/2005 6:30:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > aromamedical-2@l... writes: > > We do not feed > ourselves via the skin, and fixed oils only go as far as the dead > layers of skin. Therefore, applying unrefined fixed oils to the skin > is not more beneficial than refined oils > > > > Martin, > I am kind of confused about what the body does absorb through the skin. I > have read that the body is particularly vulnerable to lipid soluble chemicals > with regard to exposure to toxins. Wouldn't that be true of lipid soluble > nutrients and beneficial chemicals as well? > I am not under the impression that substances can " feed " our bodies by > entering the digestive system through the skin, but rather chemicals entering our > system via the bloodstream and lymph system through skin absorption. > Do you (or anyone else that might chime in) have any wisdom to share > regarding what the skin does absorb? > > Thanks, > Mary Alana > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Joshua Alexander said: >And either way, there are questions about how the oil is pressed (is >the oil kept unexposed to oxygen before the end user opens it?) What about the question of purity and quality in regards cold pressed oils? Are you suggesting these do not contain contaminants, or that they do not oxidise? >but unless an oil *says* " unrefined " on the label, >it's almost certainly refined Are you really suggesting that what is on a label tells you anything other than what the seller wants you to know? Have you not heard about the massive frauds in Europe over adulterated olive oil? I think most of the labels stated the oil was " pure " . >>In most cases the refined oils are far >>more beneficial for skin or cosmetic use than the unrefined oils. >Are they also more beneficial for the rest of the body?< You have to define what you mean by that. Are you talking about internal or external use. I am talking about use on the skin where the refined oils are safer and more user friendly. As I said, for food preparation the unrefined oils are usually better provided they are fresh. >And for the environment?< Not quiet sure what you mean there. If you mean the by-products from the purification of fixed oils it all depends on which oil and which process. In some cases simple filtration is all that is used and the waste is of course biodegradable. Several other methods are used including fractionation not involving chemicals. In fact chemical solvents are the most expensive method of refining crude fixed oils and they are avoided if technically possible, but when used, the solvents are often extracted and used over and over again to save cash. Unfortunately, the vast majority of aromatherapy novel writers and teachers don't even own one of the technical books on fixed oil refining, instead all they teach is aromatherapy trade hype. >For example, are traces of solvents used in oil >extraction/refining left in any of these oils If there are so what? Anyone eating the average western diet is consuming margarine's, spreads, cooking oils, cakes, cookies, etc. and these refined oils along with any contaminants contained in them. The volumes of any contaminants in foodstuffs are regulated by law. The volume that is going to get into the body via the skin from a massage would be undetectable in comparison. Aromatherapy suppliers by and large get their fixed oils via the same food trade processors. Then they tell their customers " all my oils are cold pressed " . It's the biggest con trick perpetuated by aromatherapy suppliers for the last 20 odd years. I know who started these scams 20 years ago and the whole trade then jumped on the bandwagon. Martin Watt http://www.aromamedical.com In , Joshua Alexander <listservs@e...> wrote: > I think the con here is mostly poor labeling requirements + lack of > good consumer info/education... expeller pressing/cold pressing are > good processes, but unless an oil *says* " unrefined " on the label, > it's almost certainly refined. And either way, there are questions > about how the oil is pressed (is the oil kept unexposed to oxygen > before the end user opens it?) and stored (in darker bottles that > block out more light?). > > >Well done Zonella you spotted one of the biggest cons in the > >aromatherapy supply business. > > The health food business, too. > > > In most cases the refined oils are far > >more beneficial for skin or cosmetic use than the unrefined oils. > > Are they also more beneficial for the rest of the body? And for the > environment? Citations? > > > The > >refined oils are purified products > > " Purified " is one word you can use... " denatured " is another... it's > interesting to see how word choice can cast a subject in entirely > different lights. > > >The advantage in unrefined fixed oils is for their benefits in foods > >because of their high vitamin and mineral content. > > Not to mention their lack of rancidity (when buying high quality... > there are plenty of low quality unrefined oils on the market, stored > in clear bottles, etc.). > > >We do not feed > >ourselves via the skin, and fixed oils only go as far as the dead > >layers of skin. Therefore, applying unrefined fixed oils to the skin > >is not more beneficial than refined oils > > That is one line of thought on the subject, and not one accepted > without question. For example, are traces of solvents used in oil > extraction/refining left in any of these oils (I don't know)? If so, > to what degree of certainty can it be shown that these things are not > absorbed? And either way, is the use of these chemicals sustainable > (i.e. not derived from petrochemicals)? How are the chemicals handled > and disposed of? > > I'd be pleased to be allowed to share another perspective. But I have > a workshop in about 20 minutes, so that will be for another email! :-) > > Best, > Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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