sigh frustrated

[Guest guest]

Hi folks,

 

So tonight's lotion experiment was:

 

70% water

5% aloe vera

1% vitamin E

 

10% oils (avocado, evening primrose, jojoba, and safflower)

1% beeswax

3% shea butter

5% lecithin

 

with some preservative and essential oils planned for the end that

never came... but I'm getting ahead of myself. At the last minute I

put some glycerin ('bout 2%) in with the oils as they were warming.

 

I let everything cool in the blender, and then began adding the

water... what took, emulsified. The rest... ahh not so much.

 

In the end, I was left with cream. Very nice cream. But cream. Wet

cream, actually... until I poured the water off.

 

<sigh>

 

At least this cream is so much nicer feeling on my hands than the

last... who can say if it's the oils, the glycerin, or proportions,

but it's much more of a " hydrated " feel... now if only it were 70%

water I think I'd be about where I'd like to be!

 

Any idea what the problem was?

 

-Josh

[Guest guest]

Hey Josh,

 

Your experience is bringing back some memories! lol

 

The formula looks like a bit more beeswax would need to be in the formula or

some other type of emulsifier. Maybe even a higher percent of lecithin.

Out of all the beeswax cream recipes I've seen the oil portion and water

portion are fairly equal or there is more oil. If you have xanthan gum, try

adding that as a co-emulsifier with the beeswax & lecitihin. I'd use maybe

..5-1%.

 

I dug up some recipes I was going to post for you, but now seem to have

misplaced them as I was organizing. Now isn't that ironic. hahaha

 

Really, though, try not to be do frustrated. Making creams and lotions is

definately by trial and error. It is especially trying when you are making

up your own recipes and such. But it's good you're looking at the postive

aspects.

 

Oh ya, and I think overmixing beeswax creams may cause it to separate, kinda

like making butter with cream.

 

Margaret

 

>Hi folks,

>

>So tonight's lotion experiment was:

>

>70% water

>5% aloe vera

>1% vitamin E

>

>10% oils (avocado, evening primrose, jojoba, and safflower)

>1% beeswax

>3% shea butter

>5% lecithin

>

>with some preservative and essential oils planned for the end that

>never came... but I'm getting ahead of myself. At the last minute I

>put some glycerin ('bout 2%) in with the oils as they were warming.

>

>I let everything cool in the blender, and then began adding the

>water... what took, emulsified. The rest... ahh not so much.

>

>In the end, I was left with cream. Very nice cream. But cream. Wet

>cream, actually... until I poured the water off.

>

><sigh>

>

>At least this cream is so much nicer feeling on my hands than the

>last... who can say if it's the oils, the glycerin, or proportions,

>but it's much more of a " hydrated " feel... now if only it were 70%

>water I think I'd be about where I'd like to be!

>

>Any idea what the problem was?

>

>-Josh

[Guest guest]

Heya :-)

 

The funny part is that I eventually want to be able to do this stuff

*without* beeswax <laugh> And I don't know if, say, bayberry wax will

have the same emulsifying properties.

 

There are lots of natural thickeners used in food, like agar, pectin,

arabic gum, etc. I wonder how those would work. I was reading that

bentonite clay may also be helpful.

 

Actually, the really frustrating part is cleaning up afterward

<laugh> I'm afraid to get a stick blender... how the devil do you

clean it? Tonight's recipe would NOT rinse off, it had to be wiped

with a very soapy sponge. Twas very tenacious.

 

I'll look forward to reading those recipes when you find them :-)

 

Best,

Josh

[Guest guest]

Josh,

If I am reading your experience correctly, the problem may be that

you're using a blender. I find that a blender likes to whip up a thick

emulsion

as the water is being added and then when it reaches a certain consistency, it

doesn't want to take any more liquid in.

Try using a wire whisk and beating it by hand or using a stick blender. I

have never tried it, but I have seen others mention using a kitchen aid or

other stand mixer.

 

HTH

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/10/2005 3:51:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

 

I'm afraid to get a stick blender... how the devil do you

clean it?

 

Oh, a stick blender will change your life :-). To clean mine, I just use a

bowl of hot water with some dish soap (Dawn for oily substances) in it, and

turn the stick blender on while it's submerged part way in the water.

Sometimes its necessary to use something like a toothpick to get the bulk of the

material out of the blender's business end first, but it's so worth it.

 

 

Tina

_The Essential Herbal Magazine_ (http://www.essentialherbal.com/)

_Essential Herbal Blog_ (http://theessentialherbal.blogspot.com/)

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I haven't been following this conversation from the start, so I have

to jump in and ask - why are you avoiding emulsifiers in a water based

cream/lotion??? There are some good natural derived ones to get " out

there " and to only use beeswax - I didn't know it worked at all. In

Dona Marias book, she uses beeswax along with borax, but I would nver

go that way. First of all - beeswax is kind of heavy on the facial

skin (as are all waxes) and secondly, borax are in some countries not

considered very safe to use. In my opinion beeswax is good for balms

of all kinds, but not in face care stuff.

 

So I use something we can get here in Sweden that is called Vegetal, a

vegetalbe derived emulsifier that works both in lotions and creams

equaly well - your just adjust the amount depending what you want to

make.

 

I do know that some have made so called body butters and managed to

incorporate hydrosols into them without separating, but I haven't got

around to test that one - yet ;-)

 

Fragrant Blessings,

Ylva

[Guest guest]

Great tip! Thanks.

 

Mary Alana

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Josh,

 

If you used aloe vera juice at 5%, that percent should be subtracted from the

amount of water. So the total liquid would be still be 70%. Personally, I

would leave the glycerin out. I would substitue stearic acid for the lecithin.

I've used the lecithin for several years. I couldn't believe the difference

when I used stearic acid instead. Also you might consider getting modified

wheat or tapioca starch.(Snow Drift Farm). Sprinkle some in at the end of the

mixing. it's

s also called nutrasorb.

 

Julia

 

Graber Girl By Julia

[Guest guest]

Anytime you are cleaning up after using beeswax - add borax to the soapy

water. This concept utilizes the same action that causes those two

ingredients to make an emulsion. After learning this, cleaning up the " balm "

pot bacame a lot easier.

 

Linda Wallen

Village Treasures - Tow, TX

Village WebWorks - www.villagewebworks.com

 

<snip>

 

Actually, the really frustrating part is cleaning up afterward

<laugh> I'm afraid to get a stick blender... how the devil do you

clean it? Tonight's recipe would NOT rinse off, it had to be wiped

with a very soapy sponge. Twas very tenacious.

[Guest guest]

Josh,

I have made lotions with the water phase at close to 80%. The water phase

includes the water, aloe vera, glycerin, hydrosols, etc. Note that glycerin

is heated with the water. The oil/butter phase is usually 13-15% and

everything else makes up the other 5%.

 

The water phase should be heated up to 170 but I never let my oils & butters

get over 120. If using waxes, get them melted first then allow their heat to

melt your butters. Let the water phase cool down before adding to the oils.

One time a phone call interrupted me and I combined at too low temps and the

emulsion would not hold.

 

So ... from your note, it looks like your temperatures could be a big part

of your problem.

 

Linda Wallen

Village Treasures - Tow, TX

Village WebWorks - www.villagewebworks.com

 

 

On Behalf Of Joshua Alexander

Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:34 PM

 

<sigh> frustrated

 

Hi folks,

 

So tonight's lotion experiment was:

 

70% water

5% aloe vera

1% vitamin E

 

10% oils (avocado, evening primrose, jojoba, and safflower)

1% beeswax

3% shea butter

5% lecithin

 

with some preservative and essential oils planned for the end that

never came... but I'm getting ahead of myself. At the last minute I

put some glycerin ('bout 2%) in with the oils as they were warming.

 

I let everything cool in the blender, and then began adding the

water... what took, emulsified. The rest... ahh not so much.

 

In the end, I was left with cream. Very nice cream. But cream. Wet

cream, actually... until I poured the water off.

 

<sigh>

 

At least this cream is so much nicer feeling on my hands than the

last... who can say if it's the oils, the glycerin, or proportions,

but it's much more of a " hydrated " feel... now if only it were 70%

water I think I'd be about where I'd like to be!

 

Any idea what the problem was?

 

-Josh

[Guest guest]

Hi Ylva and Julia,

 

To answer your questions in turn...

 

The lecithin is an emulsifier as well, although perhaps not a very

effective one. Although I did note, an emulsion was made! Too thick,

but emulsified, and as of this morning has not separated at room temp.

 

Yeah, I'm not into borax either, for the reason you mentioned.

 

Stearic acid is made in one of two ways: animal products, or

hydrogenation. As an ingredient, it doesn't fit with the ideology

behind what I'm trying to accomplish. It *may* be that what I'd like

to do is not possible--I'm not unwilling to accept that as a

possibility, once others are exhausted--but in the meantime, there

are a lot of other variables to look at.

 

If you read the ingredients for the vegetable derived emulsifying

waxes, they read like the side of a commercial lotion bottle. <shrug>

No judgement there, they just don't fit my needs.

 

I haven't quite come up with a concise sentence to describe it

accurately. The best I've done so far is, " I only want to put

ingredients on my body that I would put IN my body. " Which isn't

quite true, since, for example, I would put wintergreen on my body

but not ingest it. Maybe that's the exception that proves the rule?

;-)

 

Anyway, hope that gives you a better understanding of where I'm coming from!

 

Best,

Josh

[Guest guest]

Hi Linda,

 

Yes, I've been wondering about temp. The Rosemary's Perfect Cream

instructions are to a) let everything cool to room temp and b) add

the waters to the oils.

 

So that's the same method I used for this... although part of me

wants to put everything in a pan at once, heat it up until it's all

melted, and blend from there with the stick blender that's apparently

in my future ;-)

 

So why do you heat the water phase up to 170 if you just let it cool

down? What do you let it cool down to? Do you try to combine the

phases at roughly equal temps?

 

Thanks for the lead! And thank you all, what a great response. I feel

very supported in trying again :-)

 

Warmly,

Josh

[Guest guest]

Before soapmaking I couldn't find a use for the stick blender and

got rid of it. I bought several at Costco that have a removable

bottom half. After blending soap and water in the narrow cup that

comes with the mixer, I remove the bottom part to rinse and and air

dry - very easy.

~Bridgette (in AZ)

 

, essentialherbal@a... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 8/10/2005 3:51:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> writes:

>

> I'm afraid to get a stick blender... how the devil do you

> clean it?

>

> Oh, a stick blender will change your life :-). To clean mine, I

just use a

> bowl of hot water with some dish soap (Dawn for oily substances)

in it, and

> turn the stick blender on while it's submerged part way in the

water.

> Sometimes its necessary to use something like a toothpick to get

the bulk of the

> material out of the blender's business end first, but it's so

worth it.

>

>

> Tina

> _The Essential Herbal Magazine_ (http://www.essentialherbal.com/)

> _Essential Herbal Blog_ (http://theessentialherbal.blogspot.com/)

>

>

>

>

>