OT: Drug Concerns and whooping cough again

[Guest guest]

This is a bit of information about the efficacy about vaccines, whooping cough,

doctors and dollars.

 

Yesterday evening, my son was admitted to the hosptial for observation for his

whooping cough. We went to see our regular family practice doc that we have

been going to see ever since we moved to Alabama in 1985 (it will be 20 years

with this guy in June 2005). My mother took him in last Monday for his cough -

I had a headache and was not really interested in taking him myself - There goes

$25 copay and$108 in meds - . She has done this on various occasions because I

have 2 other children and depending on what kind of day we are having, depends

on who goes and who stays home with the others. Well, first off - HIPAA

bullshit happened. His appointment was at 2:30. He was not seen until after

4:30 because I HAD to sign all those damnable forms stating that " it is my right

for the government to supercede my right to privacy " my verbal consent was not

good enough to have him seen. I was not happy. I then had to drag my other kid

with me to the doctor's office to sign all this

crap and have it put in all their charts. Okay, got that done with a migraine

and not feeling great myself.

 

My ds was diagnosed with a " sinus infection " - I am sure he had this, he had a

headache and drew the pattern of it on his head, but he also had other etiology

that was overlooked at this visit. So he was given an antibiotic to clear the

sinus infection. Okay. The cough was still there. By last Wednesday, he had

started rupturing the blood vessels in his eyes and I have been sitting up with

him all night every night since last Sunday (the 12th) because he " whoops " when

he coughs and cannot breathe. It is quite scary to see. He sounds like he is

literally dying. Last Thursday, my mother called the doctor again. By this

time I am exhausted (still am for that matter) and sleeping during the day

during the morning because I am up literally all night. She tells them we think

he has the whooping cough. I get an appointment for Friday morning another -

$25 for copay and God knows what for labs -. During all this time, I am doing a

bit of research, if you recall my previous post

about the whooping cough. The more I read, the more I am convinced that this

is the animal we are dealing with, the sinuses are negliglible by this point and

he has no drainage or complaints other than paraxomal spasmodic coughing fits

lasting more than 60 seconds several times a day (yesterday he had 12 episodes

in about 4 hours). So I tell them " I think he has the whooping cough " and I am

told point blank " It cannot be pertussis(the other name for the wc) because he

has been vaccinated. " I then say " According to a study published in 1997 in the

BMJ by age 6 the vaccine is ONLY 56% effective - he is EIGHT. " Our doc rolls

his eyes and says okay, lets test him. Fine by me. I want to know what is

wrong. Nothing really can be done, but I want to know all the same. We get an

order for a lab test. We go to one hospital - to waste an hour to be told " we

don't have the medium here to do this, you can come back tomorow or you can go

to another affiliated lab " We go to the other

lab. Type in about $5 bucks for gas here -

 

Fast forward to yesterday morning. My ds had a coughing fit that lasted 3

minutes and he had marked cyanosis around his lips. At 3:30, I am telling my dh

that I don't know what else to do and I think I need a second opinion from a

pediatric specialist. Yesterday afternoon found us sitting in the emergency

room of Children's Hospital for 10 hours. We were there 4 hours before we were

even seen. When we finally were seen, I was speaking with the 2nd in command -

that is how bad my ds was. His eyes have every blood vein burst in them. That

was a huge concern because of the risk of ruptured pupils and loss of vision.

His eyes are fine, just really REALLY bad looking. They said at different

points that it certainly looked like pertussis, he had been at it long enough

and coughing hard enough, and he was whooping. We get labs (blood work to the

nth degree) chest films and cultures - God knows what cost to add here too.

Just a run to the ER to get a scrip will run about $1000 plus

it wins both an ER deductible for $100 copay, plus the $250 deductible for the

hospital.

 

We had a plan before we left the ER when he was admitted private rooms here go

for about $3000 per day plus rental on equipment in the room (IV pole, O2

monitor, TV, Phone, EVERYTHING). Erythromycin is the " gold standard " for the

treatment of the Bordella Pertussis bacteria. It will not stop the disease or

the progression of the disease, but it will inhibit the ability of the pertussis

to be spread to others. My ds and I cannot take erythromycin - we have scaling

where all the skin peels off our hands and feet (we learned this from strep

about 2 years ago.) The second drug of choice is azrithromycin (Zithromax).

He has had this antibiotic before. No problems with it either. When we finally

get to his room (about midnight) the nurse comes in and says " His bactrum will

be here in a minute from the pharmacy " I said " He is getting Zithromax, NOT

bactrum " She says " The order says bactrum " I say " Bactrum is a sulfa drug and

he has not had it. He will not be getting bactrum

tonight either because his respiratory function is already depleted and IF he

should have a reaction to it, I do NOT want him further compromised, plus it is

NOT the plan of action we had discussed in the ER. " She says " I understand

where you are coming from, but you will have to talk to the doctor " I say " Get

them up here and get me a PDR. " She says " PDR? You mean THE PDR as in the

Physicians Desk Reference? " I say ' YEP, that is exactly what I mean. I want

to read where it says bactrum will kill or has been used in the progression of

bordella pertussis " Bless her heart, she says " I will get the doctor for you,

but I don't think we have the PDR on the floor. "

 

Doc comes in - very much less than happy to see me. This is a resident on the

service to which my ds was admitted, not the doc we had in the ER. She says

" Bactrum is effective in the treatment of pertussis. " I said " That is not the

game plan. He will get Zithromax. NOT bactrum. " She goes on to tell me how

" safe " bactrum is and how since he is allergic to erythromycin, I should just

let them give him the bactrum. I said " HE HAS NOT HAD THIS DRUG. NOW IS NOT

THE TIME TO EXPERIEMENT AND SEE WHAT REACTION HE MAY HAVE TO IT. " She rolls

her eyes and relents to my request for the Zithromax, much to her chagrin.

 

Today, I find out that my MIL and my FIL as well as others on my side of the

family have SEVERE REACTIONS - cardiac issues, respiratory issues, swelling

issues (including airway constriction), etc with bactrum.

 

This goes to show ya'll that 1.) Vaccines are ineffective and do NOT provide

life long immunity (this is my ONLY totally vaccinated child remember, and he

has 2 partially vaccinated siblings that have NOT come down with the disease so

far. I was vaccinated as a child an I am coming down with it myself.) 2.)

STAND YOUR GROUND. 3.) Insofar as it is possible DO YOUR RESEARCH from what the

medical world would consider to be " realiable " journals. Their trade journals

are the best. Much of the BMJ is online and free. Which is great, imho. They

could have injured or killed my son had I given in.

 

Sorry for length, thanks for listening!

 

Jill Mc.

Alabama

 

 

 

Blackkat <blackkat wrote:

Drae,

 

I see your point here but the reason doctors are so verworked and stretched too

thin is that they try to see TOO many patients in one day. And of course, $$ is

the bottom line here.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Jill, although I am just a list member, and there is nothing more I can do

than just pray for you ALL, I wish there was more that I could do. So, will

keep you and yours in my prayers.

Anita in TX

[Guest guest]

Dear Jill,

 

Sounds like you have had your hands full.

Your son and family are in my prayers.

 

Hugs Nancy

 

 

Today, I find out that my MIL and my FIL as well as others on my side

of the family have SEVERE REACTIONS - cardiac issues, respiratory

issues, swelling issues (including airway constriction), etc with bactrum.

 

This goes to show ya'll that 1.) Vaccines are ineffective and do NOT

provide life long immunity (this is my ONLY totally vaccinated child

remember, and he has 2 partially vaccinated siblings that have NOT come

down with the disease so far. I was vaccinated as a child an I am coming

down with it myself.) 2.) STAND YOUR GROUND. 3.) Insofar as it is

possible DO YOUR RESEARCH from what the medical world would consider to be

" realiable " journals. Their trade journals are the best. Much of the

BMJ is online and free. Which is great, imho. They could have injured

or killed my son had I given in.

 

Sorry for length, thanks for listening!

 

Jill Mc.

Alabama

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I am sorry you and your son are going through this ordeal. I helped my sister

with her 8 and 5 year old children when they had whooping cough. The doctors

weren't sure if it was pneumonia or whooping cough, bacterial or viral, but they

treated her in the emergency room and admitted her. It too was a nightmare. The

ER doc talked about how serious this illness is and that people die from it,

right in front of the child. That made quite an impression on an 8 year old. So

much for bedside manner. Her little brother did not require a trip to the

hospital. He did take antibiotics. I massaged them both every day and they took

colostrum. Since your son is sensitive maybe you could massage his feet using

only a base oil like coconut. I diffused Lavender in the room to calm them

during those scary attacks. It was frightening to see her clench her throat and

gasp for breath. Being there to comfort him is some of the best medicine you can

give.

 

Good luck.

Kani

 

 

 

Jill McDanal <birthmamajill wrote:

This is a bit of information about the efficacy about vaccines, whooping cough,

doctors and dollars.

 

Yesterday evening, my son was admitted to the hosptial for observation for his

whooping cough. We went to see our regular family practice doc that we have

been going to see ever since we moved to Alabama in 1985 (it will be 20 years

with this guy in June 2005). My mother took him in last Monday for his cough -

I had a headache and was not really interested in taking him myself - There goes

$25 copay and$108 in meds - . She has done this on various occasions because I

have 2 other children and depending on what kind of day we are having, depends

on who goes and who stays home with the others. Well, first off - HIPAA

bullshit happened. His appointment was at 2:30. He was not seen until after

4:30 because I HAD to sign all those damnable forms stating that " it is my right

for the government to supercede my right to privacy " my verbal consent was not

good enough to have him seen. I was not happy. I then had to drag my other kid

with me to the doctor's office to sign all this

crap and have it put in all their charts. Okay, got that done with a migraine

and not feeling great myself.

 

My ds was diagnosed with a " sinus infection " - I am sure he had this, he had a

headache and drew the pattern of it on his head, but he also had other etiology

that was overlooked at this visit. So he was given an antibiotic to clear the

sinus infection. Okay. The cough was still there. By last Wednesday, he had

started rupturing the blood vessels in his eyes and I have been sitting up with

him all night every night since last Sunday (the 12th) because he " whoops " when

he coughs and cannot breathe. It is quite scary to see. He sounds like he is

literally dying. Last Thursday, my mother called the doctor again. By this

time I am exhausted (still am for that matter) and sleeping during the day

during the morning because I am up literally all night. She tells them we think

he has the whooping cough. I get an appointment for Friday morning another -

$25 for copay and God knows what for labs -. During all this time, I am doing a

bit of research, if you recall my previous post

about the whooping cough. The more I read, the more I am convinced that this is

the animal we are dealing with, the sinuses are negliglible by this point and he

has no drainage or complaints other than paraxomal spasmodic coughing fits

lasting more than 60 seconds several times a day (yesterday he had 12 episodes

in about 4 hours). So I tell them " I think he has the whooping cough " and I am

told point blank " It cannot be pertussis(the other name for the wc) because he

has been vaccinated. " I then say " According to a study published in 1997 in the

BMJ by age 6 the vaccine is ONLY 56% effective - he is EIGHT. " Our doc rolls

his eyes and says okay, lets test him. Fine by me. I want to know what is

wrong. Nothing really can be done, but I want to know all the same. We get an

order for a lab test. We go to one hospital - to waste an hour to be told " we

don't have the medium here to do this, you can come back tomorow or you can go

to another affiliated lab " We go to the other

lab. Type in about $5 bucks for gas here -

 

Fast forward to yesterday morning. My ds had a coughing fit that lasted 3

minutes and he had marked cyanosis around his lips. At 3:30, I am telling my dh

that I don't know what else to do and I think I need a second opinion from a

pediatric specialist. Yesterday afternoon found us sitting in the emergency

room of Children's Hospital for 10 hours. We were there 4 hours before we were

even seen. When we finally were seen, I was speaking with the 2nd in command -

that is how bad my ds was. His eyes have every blood vein burst in them. That

was a huge concern because of the risk of ruptured pupils and loss of vision.

His eyes are fine, just really REALLY bad looking. They said at different

points that it certainly looked like pertussis, he had been at it long enough

and coughing hard enough, and he was whooping. We get labs (blood work to the

nth degree) chest films and cultures - God knows what cost to add here too.

Just a run to the ER to get a scrip will run about $1000 plus

it wins both an ER deductible for $100 copay, plus the $250 deductible for the

hospital.

 

We had a plan before we left the ER when he was admitted private rooms here go

for about $3000 per day plus rental on equipment in the room (IV pole, O2

monitor, TV, Phone, EVERYTHING). Erythromycin is the " gold standard " for the

treatment of the Bordella Pertussis bacteria. It will not stop the disease or

the progression of the disease, but it will inhibit the ability of the pertussis

to be spread to others. My ds and I cannot take erythromycin - we have scaling

where all the skin peels off our hands and feet (we learned this from strep

about 2 years ago.) The second drug of choice is azrithromycin (Zithromax).

He has had this antibiotic before. No problems with it either. When we finally

get to his room (about midnight) the nurse comes in and says " His bactrum will

be here in a minute from the pharmacy " I said " He is getting Zithromax, NOT

bactrum " She says " The order says bactrum " I say " Bactrum is a sulfa drug and

he has not had it. He will not be getting bactrum

tonight either because his respiratory function is already depleted and IF he

should have a reaction to it, I do NOT want him further compromised, plus it is

NOT the plan of action we had discussed in the ER. " She says " I understand

where you are coming from, but you will have to talk to the doctor " I say " Get

them up here and get me a PDR. " She says " PDR? You mean THE PDR as in the

Physicians Desk Reference? " I say ' YEP, that is exactly what I mean. I want

to read where it says bactrum will kill or has been used in the progression of

bordella pertussis " Bless her heart, she says " I will get the doctor for you,

but I don't think we have the PDR on the floor. "

 

Doc comes in - very much less than happy to see me. This is a resident on the

service to which my ds was admitted, not the doc we had in the ER. She says

" Bactrum is effective in the treatment of pertussis. " I said " That is not the

game plan. He will get Zithromax. NOT bactrum. " She goes on to tell me how

" safe " bactrum is and how since he is allergic to erythromycin, I should just

let them give him the bactrum. I said " HE HAS NOT HAD THIS DRUG. NOW IS NOT

THE TIME TO EXPERIEMENT AND SEE WHAT REACTION HE MAY HAVE TO IT. " She rolls

her eyes and relents to my request for the Zithromax, much to her chagrin.

 

Today, I find out that my MIL and my FIL as well as others on my side of the

family have SEVERE REACTIONS - cardiac issues, respiratory issues, swelling

issues (including airway constriction), etc with bactrum.

 

This goes to show ya'll that 1.) Vaccines are ineffective and do NOT provide

life long immunity (this is my ONLY totally vaccinated child remember, and he

has 2 partially vaccinated siblings that have NOT come down with the disease so

far. I was vaccinated as a child an I am coming down with it myself.) 2.)

STAND YOUR GROUND. 3.) Insofar as it is possible DO YOUR RESEARCH from what the

medical world would consider to be " realiable " journals. Their trade journals

are the best. Much of the BMJ is online and free. Which is great, imho. They

could have injured or killed my son had I given in.

 

Sorry for length, thanks for listening!

 

Jill Mc.

Alabama

 

 

 

Blackkat <blackkat wrote:

Drae,

 

I see your point here but the reason doctors are so verworked and stretched too

thin is that they try to see TOO many patients in one day. And of course, $$ is

the bottom line here.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

JIll,

I am standing up and applaud you !!!!! It took a lot of guts to stand

up to the mighty medical profession, but often that's necessary and I am

glad you did. Well 'armed' and with good information...

Hope you are all recovering by now..

C-M

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jill,

 

All I can say is " You go girl! " . I understand exactly where you are coming

from.

 

A couple of years ago, my father went to the hospital, because he was

passing blood in his stools, and he was having terrible pains in his lower

abdomen. Knowing my dad....he won't go to a doctor, much less a hospital,

unless he thinks he's dying.....I knew something was terribly wrong.

 

The doctor came in after several hours, and announced he was sending my dad

home, on an antibiotic. The doctor told me that my dad had 'colitis'.

 

The only 'tests' they'd done was an x-ray and some blood tests, that showed

his white cell count was high, which could indicate an infection of some

sort. The x-ray showed nothing of importance. I told the doctor that there

was no way he could know that my father had 'colitis' without doing a

colonoscopy....and that they'd not done that, and that my father would not

be leaving the hospital without knowing EXACTLY what was wrong with him. (I

know this because I've suffered off an on from colitis for years....and dad

had no history of colitis, or any other colon problem) I was told at that

point, that my father didn't meet 'the criteria' to be admitted to the

hospital.

 

Oh I was so angry!!! I told the doctor he'd better make my father 'meet the

criteria'. After much back and forth conversation (to say the least!), they

admitted my dad, and a GI specialist was brought in the next morning. This

doctor sent dad for more tests, and found that over 1 1/2 feet of his colon

had DIED! This specialist told my dad that if I hadn't been 'insistent'

that he stay....he would have died. They took my dad for his surgery to fix

the problem within hours.

 

It's very important that folks take an active role in their (and their

family's) health care. This isn't the first problem we've had with the

medical establishment, and I am certain it won't be the last. I do my best

to read all the medical information I can get my hands on. I always

research any medications that are prescribed for myself or my family

members. I also research any condition that is 'diagnosed'. I do not take

any medical personnel solely at their word any longer. My life is my

own....and I do anything and everything to protect it....as no one cares for

me like I do. I do the same for my family. Don't get me wrong....some

doctors actually care, and do the best they can, with the tools they have.

But on the same token, some doctors only care how much money they can make

from you.

 

I am so glad you were able to stand your ground, and that you had the

information with which to fight. I am sending up lots of prayers that your

son gets well soon. Sorry to be so longwinded....however, this is one topic

that really gets to me.

 

Take good care, and let me know how your son is doing!

Candy in Alabama

[Guest guest]

the prob is that most hospitols make money by sending you home or not doing the

tests ..where i am if they do not admit you they make money by sending you

home,,and most dr have to follow the policy of the hospitol espically in the er

or they will be out of a job or lose reisdencice ,,, it is the money /board

making members that hurt the people,so not all the drs,,,,, i have worked in

the hospitols for years and have seen the crap that the officals are doing ,,,,,

so ,,, i would contact the news media and have and investigation,,,,, they like

to keep hidden thier durty little secrets of how they make money on the health

of others and then tryto pin it on the drs or nurses ,,,,, good luck

 

" C. Lucas " <cdlucas wrote:Jill,

 

All I can say is " You go girl! " . I understand exactly where you are coming

from.

 

A couple of years ago, my father went to the hospital, because he was

passing blood in his stools, and he was having terrible pains in his lower

abdomen. Knowing my dad....he won't go to a doctor, much less a hospital,

unless he thinks he's dying.....I knew something was terribly wrong.

 

The doctor came in after several hours, and announced he was sending my dad

home, on an antibiotic. The doctor told me that my dad had 'colitis'.

 

The only 'tests' they'd done was an x-ray and some blood tests, that showed

his white cell count was high, which could indicate an infection of some

sort. The x-ray showed nothing of importance. I told the doctor that there

was no way he could know that my father had 'colitis' without doing a

colonoscopy....and that they'd not done that, and that my father would not

be leaving the hospital without knowing EXACTLY what was wrong with him. (I

know this because I've suffered off an on from colitis for years....and dad

had no history of colitis, or any other colon problem) I was told at that

point, that my father didn't meet 'the criteria' to be admitted to the

hospital.

 

Oh I was so angry!!! I told the doctor he'd better make my father 'meet the

criteria'. After much back and forth conversation (to say the least!), they

admitted my dad, and a GI specialist was brought in the next morning. This

doctor sent dad for more tests, and found that over 1 1/2 feet of his colon

had DIED! This specialist told my dad that if I hadn't been 'insistent'

that he stay....he would have died. They took my dad for his surgery to fix

the problem within hours.

 

It's very important that folks take an active role in their (and their

family's) health care. This isn't the first problem we've had with the

medical establishment, and I am certain it won't be the last. I do my best

to read all the medical information I can get my hands on. I always

research any medications that are prescribed for myself or my family

members. I also research any condition that is 'diagnosed'. I do not take

any medical personnel solely at their word any longer. My life is my

own....and I do anything and everything to protect it....as no one cares for

me like I do. I do the same for my family. Don't get me wrong....some

doctors actually care, and do the best they can, with the tools they have.

But on the same token, some doctors only care how much money they can make

from you.

 

I am so glad you were able to stand your ground, and that you had the

information with which to fight. I am sending up lots of prayers that your

son gets well soon. Sorry to be so longwinded....however, this is one topic

that really gets to me.

 

Take good care, and let me know how your son is doing!

Candy in Alabama

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> the prob is that most hospitols make money by sending you home or not

> doing the tests ..where i am if they do not admit you they make money by

> sending you home,,and most dr have to follow the policy of the hospitol

> espically in the er or they will be out of a job or lose reisdencice ,,,

> it is the money /board making members that hurt the people,so not all the

> drs,,,,, i have worked in the hospitols for years and have seen the crap

> that the officals are doing ,,,,, so ,,, i would contact the news media

> and have and investigation,,,,, they like to keep hidden thier durty

> little secrets of how they make money on the health of others and then

> tryto pin it on the drs or nurses ,,,,, good luck

 

<SNIP>

 

I don't doubt this information at all. I just know that I had to threaten

to call our family attorney. Within the hour, my father was admitted to the

hospital. I know that it isn't always the doctors...however, at some

point, they must stand up and do the right thing. If a person is sick, they

took an oath to do no harm...if they send the person home to die, when they

could save the persons life....then they are breaking the oath they took.

 

The first thing that really got to me, was when the doctor told me my father

had colitis...knowing good and well he could not come to that diagnosis with

the information he had. At least I KNEW that this was not an accurate

diagnosis. It was a POSSIBILITY, but not a certainty. I also know my

dad....and the pain he was in, was not indicative of colitis. Colitis is

very uncomfortable, but when morphine doesn't take away the pain, something

more has to be going on.

 

Anyway, it's been so long ago....an investigation would most likely be a

moot point. However, I at least got my father admitted, and he was

treated properly, once the GI doc was called in. He has since had another

intestinal surgery, which the same doctor performed. He's alive today,

because this physician did his job....and he did it very well.

 

So, yes, alot has to do with the officials in the hospitals, but alot is

also due to the doctors negligence, or possibly even their ignorance. I

just know that if you want to get proper medical care, you need to know

what's what before going to see a doctor.

 

That's my two cents. Probably more than anyone ever wanted to know.

Please don't get the impression that I am totally down on the medical

profession, because I'm not. I just believe people need to find a

knowledgable doctor, one that's there to 'help' when you need the help.

There are still very good physicians out there. It's very refreshing when

you find one that will tell you when they don't know what's wrong, but that

they will do whatever it takes to make you well.

 

I've been really lucky with my own physician(OB-GYN)....a wonderful man that

I have seen for the last 13 years. He's saved my life twice, and my

daughter's life, when I was giving birth. My family practitioner is also a

great doctor. I've been seeing him when needed for the last 10 years.

There have been times that I have taken 'research' to the doctor's office

during follow up visits to ask him questions. There have been times that I

brought information to his attention that he didn't know. So, even when you

have a great doctor, it pays to be knowledgable yourself.

 

Ok, off my soap box now.

Thanks for bringing up the officials in the medical establishment.....It

wasn't an angle that I mentioned, but should have. In the end, the best

advise for anyone, is know your body, and keep up with medical treatments.

Demand proper treatment. If something doesn't seem right, question their

authority. Ask to speak to the hospital representative. Do whatever you

have to do. It may very well save your life or your loved ones.

 

Take care, and thanks again for sharing the info about the board

members/officials.

Candy in Alabama

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone who sent suggestions for how to handle it. I regretfully did

not get a chance to try the egg/a.c. vinegar/honey/lemon cure, but if anyone

else comes down with it, it will be one of the things I suggest be tried.

 

Upon doing even more research on Whooping Cough ( a friend of mine is in a deep

ugly embittered custody fight with her ex husband over her 8 yo dd.) and reading

the literature, I am shocked and appalled that the medical estabilshment makes

its stock and trade of scaring the hell out of folks to " make " them comply with

" recommended vaccine schedules " . Whooping cough is PROVEN more scary than

dangerous for the population as a whole for those over 1 year of age. But it is

this myth that " whooping cough KILLS " that keeps the vaccine manufacturers in

business. Yes, it can kill, but usually it is not from pertussis, it is usually

from some scondary infection - like pneumonia. When pertussis is not easily or

readily recognized, until it is in the severe stages, like my ds had and even

then, I had to go through hell and half of Georgia to get a positive diagnosis,

I don't see how the vaccine could improve or help things, unless there is a

child under a year old. But then all people

should be vaccinated regualrly with that mentality just to keep the very young

from getting a disease.

 

Turning into a rant and a ramble again.

 

Apologies,

 

Jill Mc.

 

Alabama

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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