OT: Dale's Complaint

[Guest guest]

Butch -

 

You're right. I don't know you.

 

I'll agree to disagree. No problem.

 

Dale

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hey Dale,

 

> Hey Butch!

>

> How are you? treating you alright?

 

Not bad .. thanks. rarely treats me right .. I had to get this

post off the archive.

 

> I know you like to know EXACTLY what it is that a person is referring to

> when a comment like mine is made

 

Correct .. and I wish you had done that somewhere in your writing below.

I think you are focusing on my personality more than anything else and

if I'm right about that .. you wasted your time tacking comments on me

to your post to Martin .. and writing this post.

 

> so I know you are not going to like this answer

 

I don't like or dislike your reply .. its your opinion about me and I

don't agree with you .. simple as that. But likely it is you will not

like what I have written here.

 

> because I can only put it in terms of reminding folks what you reminded

> them to do if they see a post that makes them want to respond quick.

 

For the record .. I don't need hours to think about telling someone that

a post that disagrees with their position .. be it from Martin or anyone

else .. should not be taken personally. As for reminding folks to play

nice that is one of my jobs .. I am one of the List Monitors .. and when

I say play nice I think most folks know that it means don't lose sight

of the fact that someone is going to disagree with many comments .. and

sometimes they might post information that contradicts your comments.

Its about list behavior .. its not about personalities .. but you can

bet your bippy that the slant of many replies on this and other lists

are based on interpretation of the personality of the one being replied

to .. and in other cases posts will be intended to stroke other people.

This post you wrote here might fit that category. I have noticed over

the years that certain sellers of products will always stroke their own

customers on lists .. I'm proud to not be one who does this.

 

Again, my reminders are about posting behavior and they are intended to

help maintain some order on a list with 856 different personalities ..

they are not about expressing feelings about the personality of another

list member .. that is NOT allowed on this list!

 

> We need to remember that no matter how you write something someone might

> take it the wrong way.

 

If you had taken your own advice odds are that you would not have gotten

into this subject to begin with. ;-)

 

> By the same token this is a friendly list and therefore I believe a person

> writing a response has the responsibility of reviewing a post a little

> more before they hit send.

 

Fine .. great advice .. but not advice I need. I have NEVER made a post

to this or any other list that was not as I wanted it to be when I hit

the Send button.

 

> No we don't have any control over how someone will ultimately take our

> posts but as I said considering how often we - and that includes all of

> the old timers - keep saying this is a friendly list I think that puts

> the onus on the poster and the responsibility of the one being responded

> to is to give folks a little slack until they get to know them really well.

 

Dale .. there is no reason for me to know the life history of someone in

order to suggest that they are taking a reply personal .. especially one

from Martin. I made the post and if I had it to do over again I would

not change one single word.

 

> So even though I know you well enough from this list to know that your 'no

> frill' responses on AT are coming from a good and intelligent place I also

> know that a no frill response is just that.

 

I don't think you knew me as well as you might have thought .. but maybe

you do now .. and good that you know now because its about all you can

expect in the future .. its been that way since I began posting on lists

in 1988. In fact .. my " no frills " attitude carried me through a lotta

years in tough positions working for demanding bosses who preferred just

that .. cut out the flowers and the crap and give them the facts.

 

> I'm not telling you you're a bad person,

 

Thanks .. I'm beholden to you for that. ;-)

 

> not even telling you to change who you are as a person

 

I'm glad you didn't make such a suggestion. ;-)

 

> so don't take this that way at all especially because you wouldn't ever

> change anything about you unless you wanted to and that's the way it

> should be for people.

 

So what's the point of your message then? How should I take it? Wanna

be specific? You are telling me what you are not going to tell me ..

are you lecturing yourself?

 

Since you began home schooling you have done a bit of pontificating on

this or that subject on the list .. not that pontificating is bad .. I

like it myself .. I just thought I'd point out this observation because

you might not have paid attention to it yourself. Could it be that you

are having a hard time making the transition from teaching your children

and writing on this list? Or .. are you preparing your lesson plans on

behavioral studies while writing to the list? ;-)

 

But again .. for the record also .. I have no desire to change anything

about my personality or behavior .. nothing at all.

 

> It's not about being politically correct or that sort of vein.

 

Thank Gawd for small favors .. if it had been about that I can guarantee

you that my reply would be a lot longer than this one is. ;-)

 

> It goes back to how often we keep saying this is a friendly list - we

> then need to be more considerate when we post.

 

Considerate .. as is .. where you are coming from now? Do you think

its considerate to lecture someone on their personality .. in public?

 

> I don't think I'm very far off the mark on my perception considering that I

> realized from the posts prior to Jane's on the same subject line that there

> was just 'something' in the posts that would be taken the wrong way.

 

I don't know what " mark " you think you are near .. but I believe one

does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand that when a poster

adds to their post:

 

" I just know I'm about to get shot down in flames but I'll take that

risk ** " And then Martin replies and breaks down the post (as I am

doing with yours) and disagrees with many of the points (as I am doing

with yours) .. and then the poster comes back with the statement. " Told

y'all I'd get shot down in flames for my personal beliefs! "

 

I don't see that as being conducive to keeping the list friendly so I

try to straighten that out before people start taking sides and it turns

into a peeing contest .. which is a normal part of group dynamics.

 

The post I wrote is at the bottom of this one .. you might want to read

it again.

 

Perhaps you find fault with this part of what I wrote:

 

> Nobody is into persecuting on this list .. and it would be in the best

> interests of all the list members to not have an attitude or expectation

> of being persecuted.

>

> That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it so anybody who disagrees with

> me can kiss my grits. ;-)

 

If you do .. there is nothing I can do about that because giving someone

a sense of humor is beyond my control.

 

> I'm sure I'm explaining my own way of reaching these conclusions badly

 

As far as I am concerned .. I totally agree with that statement. ;-)

 

> other than to say that it's an intuitive thing and judging from the post

> that Jane last wrote I would have to say that intuition was right.

 

You are casting out riddles again .. what is this sixth sense saying you

are right about?

 

My opinion is that you give your intuitive powers too much credit.

 

> It's not just about how the other person perceives what we say/did. It's

> about how we perceive ourselves and then putting the two together.

 

How you perceive yourself is your call .. how you perceive me is mine

when it is broadcast on a list that is not about or accustomed to the

evaluation of personalities.

 

> Not that you're a warring person but that's what it reminds me of: war is

> usually about neither party wanting to concede that any perception by the

> other party about themselves just might have a little bit of truth to it.

 

Dale .. you would be making another mistake if you assume I am not a

warring person .. I am. But folks in this business have only known me

for around six years .. since I became a passive wimp. ;-)

 

> There's a whole lot of " Well, but, if, etc.'

 

That's the frills you apparently like .. I dislike them a lot. I

prefer to make any message I write perfectly clear.

 

> Last, this isn't just about you alone.

 

Oh? That is a surprise. Sorry Dale .. can't buy that.

 

> It's about a few other posts I've seen - heck I even went back once and

> reread a post of mine and thought it might have come across badly to some

> folks.

 

I can guarantee you that your post came across badly to me .. but like

you wrote above .. " We need to remember that no matter how you write

something someone might take it the wrong way. "

 

But its hard to take a post wrong when someone tries to lecture you

about your personality but is not willing of able to give specifics.

 

> Now I actually posted a sorry if I did w/o even saying which post it was

> specifically.

 

I think you failed to mention specifically what I wrote that got your

knickers in a knot in the first place. ;-)

 

> That's just me...darn sort of Catholic....always feeling guilty about

> something.

 

Your post reminds me of a Nun trying to lecture a school boy. ;-)

 

Please don't try to pass any of your guilt my way .. I don't need it.

 

> I am only taking this thread in particular because it was among the most

> recent and that contrary to men's perception of women, not all women keep

> a long history of every mistake a person has ever made.

 

I still don't know what caused you to think you needed to direct your

comments to me. But maybe its better to let it go .. better that I

don't know because I don't have the time or desire to go through another

reply like this one.

 

I will close with three comments. How folks behave when posting on a

list is more important than whether or not someone likes them. Owner's

of lists try to maintain order .. but they don't try to change the

personality of the members. Some folks love to wallow is pity .. some

are pompous asses .. others are grumpy .. some present themselves as

lovers of the esoteric .. or altruistic as Mother Theresa .. or tree

huggers .. or whatever .. and with 856 folks on this list I couldn't

even begin to describe the personality types on this list - but maybe

each of you can find yourself or some other list member here .. ;-)

 

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html

 

My second comment is .. don't expect others to be what you are .. under

any circumstances. There are differences in age, sex, experience and

personal background .. so those who claim to be tolerant should practice

what they preach.

 

But tolerance does NOT extend to any behavior on a list that is not

conducive to the good order and discipline of that list.

 

> Dale

 

My final comment is .. I am sure nobody misunderstood anything I wrote

above. And also for the record .. my post was not a snap reply to you.

I went through at least five drafts and took out all the four letter

words. ;-)

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch

 

> -

>

>> Such obvious clues to what I believe I will find as I read further.

>

> I have no idea what the above sentence means.

>

>> Butch, I really hope that you were the kind person that I've grown

>> accustomed to seeing.

>

> I have no idea what the above sentence means and I don't want to make

> any assumptions if I can avoid it .. so I don't know how to answer it ..

> though I think it probably needs to be answered .. so please tell me

> what you are trying to say.

>

>> I will admit, speaking to you as a friend, that I did see one or two

>> replies from you that came back a little unlike you.

>

> I have no idea what you are referring to .. please be more specific.

>

>> If I'm guessing right, well you all see my replies here first!!

>

> I have no idea what the above sentence means. ;-)

 

 

> Told y'all I'd get shot down in flames for my personal beliefs! Jane

 

Seems to me that you are taking disagreement personally.

 

In my opinion, Martin did not shoot you down in flames .. he just posted

in disagreement. If we all agreed all the time there would be no need

to even monitor the list .. there would be no learning.

 

I enjoy partying with folks I like and who think a bit like me .. but

from time to time I welcome the newcomer who thinks differently cause

after a while sitting around and nodding in unison gets boring. ;-)

 

Go back through the archives and check some of the posts I have made

when I disagreed with other folks .. including disagreement with Martin.

It was never my intent to shoot anyone down .. and I don't think it was

Martin's intent to do this.

 

Nobody is into persecuting on this list .. and it would be in the best

interests of all the list members to not have an attitude or expectation

of being persecuted.

 

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it so anybody who disagrees with

me can kiss my grits. ;-)

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com