OT: Wildlife and Hunting

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

 

> > " Some folks .. especially Europeans, cause they wiped out their

> > wildlife many generations ago .. think Americans are cavalier in

> > their attitudes toward deer .. "

>

> Well now, Butch, that's a gross injustice! On this side of the pond,

> we can't have wiped out our wildlife - we're surrounded by it still -

> just not many of us find it 'sport' to go out and shoot it anymore!

 

There is nothing that can be said or done that will not offend someone

somewhere all the time .. even when its not intended to do so. ;-)

 

Truth might sometimes appear to be unjust if one takes a statement as

being an insult to their race, nationality or nation. My statement

certainly wasn't intended to do that .. but I think you read it as such.

And if it came across that way .. I apologize. :-)

 

One of the reasons many British citizens don't consider hunting as being

" sport " is because its not been a sport for the average person in many

years .. it has been more a sport of royalty and the rich land owners.

This is the opinion of a a British drinking buddy here in Ankara .. a

geologist who loves to hunt. The subject came up some months ago at the

Pub when I was discussing hunting in the USA and Canada. There is also

a quote below that I found on a site regarding hunting in W. Europe.

 

True it is that many British citizens object to hunting .. especially

fox hunting as its seen as a sport of the elite .. and hunting has not

been an important part of European culture for many generations now.

 

But in mid-September, when your House of Commons voted to outlaw fox

hunting in England and Wales (it had already been outlawed in Scotland)

" ** police clashed with thousands of hunt supporters outside parliament

in London, and as five pro-hunt protesters burst onto the floor of the

Commons after breezing past security guards. " UNQUOTE

 

Plus .. Queen Elizabeth is not happy with this decision .. says ..

http://europe.news.designerz.com/queen-elizabeth-not-amused-by-looming-fox-hunti\

ng-ban.html

 

Agree that my use of the term " wiped out " was a bit heavy and accuracy

would demand I change it to something like .. " The already small amount

of land available for wildlife habitat has drastically decreased over

several generations in Western Europe .. and it is very difficult for

the average person to go hunting due to owner's not allowing outsiders

to harvest an already scarce number of game animals. "

 

A quote from the web site I mentioned above:

 

" Of Commoners and Kings: In the England that the colonists left behind,

land belonged to the king or to someone who held it by grant from the

king, and so did the wildlife who lived on it. Hunting without the

landholder’s permission was a form of theft known as poaching. Since

England – like most of Europe – had been overhunted by the late Middle

Ages, and game was scarce, poaching laws were strictly enforced and

hunting was a jealously guarded pastime of the upper classes.

 

In the English colonies of North America, wildlife belonged exclusively

to the monarch, since under English law, he was the ultimate owner of

all colonial land. But the early settlers found a continent teeming with

wildlife. With seemingly inexhaustible supplies of game, the king and

his agents, the wealthy, aristocratic holders of royal land grants, had

little interest in preventing hunting on lands that few of them would

ever visit. As a practical matter, enforcing poaching laws in such a

vast wilderness was impossible, and so where Europe had turned hunting

into an amusement for the elite, in North America unrestricted hunting

became a way of life for the general public, most of whom lived in rural

areas.

 

This situation was enshrined in American law in 1842. In Martin v.

Waddell, the U.S. Supreme Court held that since the rights and

privileges formerly held by the King of England had passed to the people

of the United States, wildlife could not be privately owned, but

belonged to the people. The principle that wildlife are always public,

and never private, property remains the foundation of American wildlife

law. Wildlife are held by the government (primarily state governments)

in " public trust " for the benefit of everyone. " UNQUOTE

 

The " sport " of hunting has a different face in Western Europe than it

does in North America .. so does ownership of firearms. Wildlife for

hunting purposes is really " managed " in Europe .. to the point one could

almost say it is farmed. In many cases .. England included .. game

birds are raised in captivity and released on the day of the hunt. This

is not unheard of in America .. but its an exception and only engaged in

by the rich and lazy who are not really sports persons.

 

Its not unusual for rural folks in America to come home from work in

Winter with but two hours of sunlight left .. go 500-1000 yards from

their home, climb a tree .. and come home with a White Tail buck in an

hour or so. This is because we just have TOO MANY White Tail Deer in

the Eastern USA.

 

Even today, my friends and relatives in Kentucky can go from their home

and return in 3-4 hours with a limit of quail, rabbit, dove, squirrel or

whatever is in season. In many cases they don't even drive .. they walk

to the area they want to hunt.

 

There is much public land available for hunting in the USA .. plus all

large military reservations MUST allow civilians as well as military

personnel to hunt. Example: When I served in Fort Bliss, Texas .. we

controlled the largest range area in the Free World .. McGregor Range.

During hunting season, each week we (the Military Police) issued 1,000

permits .. 500 to military folks and 500 to civilians .. and the turn in

rate was pretty high. Also, in some states (Kansas is but one example)

the state rents public land to farmers for growing crops .. with the

proviso that they must leave so many rows of corn, wheat, milo or

whatever standing for wildlife.

 

In Germany .. land .. and game is tightly controlled .. landowners hire

Jagermeisters to tend their herds and to tell shooters which deer they

can shoot .. I have hunted there with German friends. Its not what I

call a sport .. sitting in a fixed blind with a gas heater, sipping a

drink and having the fellow beside you tell you which animal to harvest

from the baited field they are grazing on.

 

In England, for a long time hunting has not been a sport of the middle

or lower social classes but one of the rich and the landowners .. and

today those who wish to pay companies who have leased land and stocked

it with wildlife. There are many ads for this on any search engine.

There are photos on the net of such outfits showing 4-5 hunters with

many dozens of dead game birds at their feet. Hunting laws don't apply

to these commercially raised and released birds .. nor is shooting them

considered a sport by most folks in the USA because we don't have to do

that. I do understand how it might be considered sport by someone who

has no other options .. its like fishing for trout in stocked ponds in

the USA .. and paying by the pound for what you catch; this we do have

here and there in America .. though real fisherpersons don't go in for

that type of fishing.

 

The percentage of hunters vs the overall population is stated below for

some Western European countries.

 

Spain ....... 2.8% .. a ratio of 1 hunter per 35 citizens.

 

France ...... 2.4% .. a ratio of 1 hunter per 44 citizens.

 

Portugal .... 2.3% .. a ratio of 1 hunter per 34 citizens.

 

UK .......... 1.3% .. a ratio of 1 hunter per 74 citizens.

 

Germany ..... 0.4% .. a ratio of 1 hunter per 241 citizens.

 

Netherlands . 0.2% .. a ratio of 1 hunter per 500 citizens.

 

The latest figures for hunting licenses sold in the USA is 2001 .. it

shows 13 million or so Americans purchased them .. this is a bit over 5%

of the TOTAL population .. not the adult population, which I don't have

handy now but it obviously raises the percentage a good bit. And this

percentage does not include landowners .. who in most states can hunt on

their own land without a license .. or military personnel on authorized

leave .. who have the same privileges in most states .. or Native

Americans .. who do not need state hunting licenses to hunt on their own

reservations .. or those who take a gamble and hunt without a license.

 

In general, hunts in Western Europe are paid and guided hunts. Then, of

course, there are some who are fortunate enough to be invited on hunts.

This is normally considered VIP treatment. It is slowly becoming that

way for the bigger game in the USA .. but while I was in New Mexico the

opening of bow season for elk began .. and the flood of folks heading to

the public lands was enormous.

 

> The other evening I was going to dinner with friends and, driving

> along a particularly beautiful valley, I was mesmerised by the site

> of about 20 deer of all sizes grazing in a field. We also have dozens

> of badgers, hares, rabbits and foxes and, being right on the coast, a

> HUGE variety of sea birds including herons, egrets and all types of

> gulls.

 

Sea birds such as those mentioned above are not game birds so folks

don't hunt them. Obviously, there is some wild game alive and well in

every country in the world .. but the abundance is what I should have

made clear .. and the right of the average person to go out and harvest

wild game. As previously stated, the right to hunt is not so common in

many countries. That is true here in Turkey. A foreigner wanting to

hunt here MUST go with a guide service. In America, anyone can hunt on

private land with permission or public land anytime .. if they purchase

a non-resident license.

 

> Huh!

> Jane

 

Back at'ya. ;-) And please understand that my original comment was not

a slam on any country .. but simply a comparison.

 

> PS: My Illinois friend's father does get very twitchy at the mention

> of all our wild deer though ...

 

Understood that is. There's a joke (maybe its true) that some Suthran

churches close the doors if the first day of a particular hunting season

falls on a Sunday.

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch