DAOM vs. DTCM

August 25, 2009

Hi Group,

Does anyone have experience or info regarding doctoral programs in Canada. I

posted a while back on this, but am still struggling with the lack of info I

have found.

Is the DTCM equivalent to DAOM? Is it just a different title because its Canada?

My understanding is that they are the same. However, program length and number

of credits between program is variable. I was told by the Canadian school, that

when I graduate from their doctoral program, and I take the Canadian test, I

would then be equivalent to the US DAOM.

Any thoughts?

I don't want to venture into this and have problems after graduation.

Thank you for any info you can share.

David M Vitello, LAc

August 25, 2009

Hello David: The College is in the process of being set up at this moment by the

Transitional Council. The aim is to have a program that will allow practitioners

to carry their skills from one province to the next. It will include categories

of Doctor, acupuncturist, and needle therapist, but at the present time the

rules for entry are not set and will not be until 2010. Please go to:

www.info@...

I hope this helps you.

William A. Brown DCM., Dr.Ac.

August 25, 2009

Hi Willaim,

Thank you for your help with this. I have a few questions though:

1. Are you writing about PRC in Victoria specifically, in regrads to being in

the process with the Transitional Council?

2. By " carry their skills from one province to the next " , do you mean between

the US and Canada or just within Canadian provinces?

Thanks again.

Sincerely,

David Vitello

Chinese Medicine , aqupoint wrote:

>

> Hello David: The College is in the process of being set up at this moment by

the Transitional Council. The aim is to have a program that will allow

practitioners to carry their skills from one province to the next. It will

include categories of Doctor, acupuncturist, and needle therapist, but at the

present time the rules for entry are not set and will not be until 2010. Please

go to: www.info@...

> I hope this helps you.

> William A. Brown DCM., Dr.Ac.

>

August 26, 2009

Hi WIlliam, I am not sure where David is, he should let us know which province.

Hugo

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

________________________________

" aqupoint " <aqupoint

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, 25 August, 2009 15:03:15

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

Hello David: The College is in the process of being set up at this moment by the

Transitional Council. The aim is to have a program that will allow practitioners

to carry their skills from one province to the next. It will include categories

of Doctor, acupuncturist, and needle therapist, but at the present time the

rules for entry are not set and will not be until 2010. Please go to:

www.info@ctcmpao. on.ca

I hope this helps you.

William A. Brown DCM., Dr.Ac.

August 26, 2009

Hi David, William is writing about Ontario. British Columbia has its college in

place already. The link for their college is at

http://www.ctcma.bc.ca/index.asp

Hugo

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

________________________________

dmvitello01 <dmvitello

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, 25 August, 2009 17:29:34

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

Hi Willaim,

Thank you for your help with this. I have a few questions though:

1. Are you writing about PRC in Victoria specifically, in regrads to being in

the process with the Transitional Council?

2. By " carry their skills from one province to the next " , do you mean between

the US and Canada or just within Canadian provinces?

Thanks again.

Sincerely,

David Vitello

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , aqupoint wrote:

>

> Hello David: The College is in the process of being set up at this moment by

the Transitional Council. The aim is to have a program that will allow

practitioners to carry their skills from one province to the next. It will

include categories of Doctor, acupuncturist, and needle therapist, but at the

present time the rules for entry are not set and will not be until 2010. Please

go to: www.info@...

> I hope this helps you.

> William A. Brown DCM., Dr.Ac.

>

August 26, 2009

William and Hugo,

Thanks for helping me out with this. I am practicing in Seattle, WA. Planning on

going to Pacific Rim College in BC. Upon graduating I will move back to Seattle.

I have no plans to ever really practice in Canada.

So my question is about the DTCM degree in regards to acceptance in the US. Do

you guys both agree it is equivalent to a DAOM? Do you know any situations that

are like what I have described..US practitioners getting their doctorates in

Canada and then returning to prax in the US with a Doctor title? Is this

happening at all in the Ontario school?

Thanks again guys:)

David Vitello

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor

wrote:

>

> Hi David, William is writing about Ontario. British Columbia has its college

in place already. The link for their college is at

>

> http://www.ctcma.bc.ca/index.asp

>

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

>

> ________________________________

> dmvitello01 <dmvitello

> Chinese Medicine

> Tuesday, 25 August, 2009 17:29:34

> Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

>

> Hi Willaim,

>

> Thank you for your help with this. I have a few questions though:

>

> 1. Are you writing about PRC in Victoria specifically, in regrads to being in

the process with the Transitional Council?

>

> 2. By " carry their skills from one province to the next " , do you mean between

the US and Canada or just within Canadian provinces?

>

> Thanks again.

>

> Sincerely,

> David Vitello

>

> Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , aqupoint@ wrote:

> >

> > Hello David: The College is in the process of being set up at this moment by

the Transitional Council. The aim is to have a program that will allow

practitioners to carry their skills from one province to the next. It will

include categories of Doctor, acupuncturist, and needle therapist, but at the

present time the rules for entry are not set and will not be until 2010. Please

go to: www.info@

> > I hope this helps you.

> > William A. Brown DCM., Dr.Ac.

> >

August 26, 2009

You want to be careful, many states, including Oregon, do not allow you to use

degrees that are not from fully accredited colleges, and I have my doubts about

Pacific Rim. Why would you not choose Bastyr or the distance program at OCOM

instead?

Regards,

Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

angelapfa

www.InnerhealthSalem.com

Phone: 503 364 3022

-

dmvitello01

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:24 PM

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

William and Hugo,

Thanks for helping me out with this. I am practicing in Seattle, WA. Planning

on going to Pacific Rim College in BC. Upon graduating I will move back to

Seattle. I have no plans to ever really practice in Canada.

So my question is about the DTCM degree in regards to acceptance in the US. Do

you guys both agree it is equivalent to a DAOM? Do you know any situations that

are like what I have described..US practitioners getting their doctorates in

Canada and then returning to prax in the US with a Doctor title? Is this

happening at all in the Ontario school?

Thanks again guys:)

David Vitello

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

>

> Hi David, William is writing about Ontario. British Columbia has its

college in place already. The link for their college is at

>

> http://www.ctcma.bc.ca/index.asp

>

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

>

> ________________________________

> dmvitello01 <dmvitello

> Chinese Medicine

> Tuesday, 25 August, 2009 17:29:34

> Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

>

> Hi Willaim,

>

> Thank you for your help with this. I have a few questions though:

>

> 1. Are you writing about PRC in Victoria specifically, in regrads to being

in the process with the Transitional Council?

>

> 2. By " carry their skills from one province to the next " , do you mean

between the US and Canada or just within Canadian provinces?

>

> Thanks again.

>

> Sincerely,

> David Vitello

>

> Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , aqupoint@ wrote:

> >

> > Hello David: The College is in the process of being set up at this moment

by the Transitional Council. The aim is to have a program that will allow

practitioners to carry their skills from one province to the next. It will

include categories of Doctor, acupuncturist, and needle therapist, but at the

present time the rules for entry are not set and will not be until 2010. Please

go to: www.info@

> > I hope this helps you.

> > William A. Brown DCM., Dr.Ac.

> >

August 27, 2009

Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

August 27, 2009

Not sure what is being defined as efficacious?

I know practitioners who acomplished apprenticeships and NO... DAOM or

Master degrees could ever compare.

So what might we be comparing? Just the average Masters degree to the DAOM

degree?

If so that makes sense that DAOM is more and higher education.

But efficacy in practice.....that is a whole other ball of wax.

Richard

In a message dated 8/27/2009 3:57:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

don83407 writes:

And yes, the efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's

level. They have been compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

August 27, 2009

David

Blowhards is correct.

But also money grubbing greedy *% & ***.

Agreed for entry level doctor degree but it MUST be regionally accredited

otherwise useless other than for state licensing laws.

And as I proved here in Florida after 14 years of battle..... using even

the doctor title is legal as adjudicated by a FEDERAL COURT in 1995 as long

as it is truthful " commercial speech " and no fraud is intended but we need

not get into that discussion....its old hat already.

So if one is only looking for a useless title - no problem.

More importantly even accredited degrees do not make the practitioner.

Richard

In a message dated 8/27/2009 4:36:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

acuman1 writes:

To be truthful, my feeling is that all these letters are useless and

education beyond entry level is for private inquiry and enlightenment. However,

I am not a big time academia fan, as I see present day universities as a

bunch of blowhards who get degrees to get degrees instead of having a genuine

interest in students and sharing intelligence.

I know of a Oriental Medicine program that was supposed to start up here

in PA, and the president, vice president in charge of allied health, and the

provost were all in favor, along with a state grant for start up, with

plenty of space available since there was a new 36 million allied health

facility. The faculty would not let it happen because if the president liked

it,

they didn't since they didnt' like the president because he actually

wanted to run the university as a forward looking business instead of just go

to

state businesses and pull in donation money. Petty *'s.

We do, however, need a first professional doctorate program for our

profession as entry level, and I acknowledge that we need to have DAOM's and

their equivalent to be able to teach at that level in today's educational

environment.

David Molony

On Aug 27, 2009, at 3:30:45 PM, singlewhip2001 <_singlewhip2001@singlewhi_

(singlewhip2001) > wrote:

singlewhip2001 <_singlewhip2001@singlewhi_

(singlewhip2001) >

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

August 27, 2009 3:30:45 PM EDT

_Traditional_Traditional_<WBRTraditional_Tra_

(Chinese Medicine )

My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing

agencies. The Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally

accepted degree.

_Traditional_Traditional_<WBRTraditional_Tra_

(Chinese Medicine ) , aqupoint wrote:

>

> Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted.

I assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone

will say they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but

until there is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows

more etc. You should check with the area in which you want to work as to

what you need too have. William.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

August 27, 2009

No you are correcty.....I wasn't at PCOM.

But just to clarify....whatever PCOM did in their comparison

is just their opinion which they are entitled to just as you say..l.so is

everyone else.

Over & out,

Richard

In a message dated 8/27/2009 6:34:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

don83407 writes:

Friend, I'm just stating what what done at PCOM. I'm not here to parse

words. You have your opions as do everyone else. You weren't at PCOM so you do

not know what was compared. I'll leave it at that.

Out,

August 27, 2009

There is no accredited Phd in AOM to date. Therefore, that assertion is not

correct. There is only one accredited Doctorate in AOM in the United States,

and that is the DAOM.

Also, one does not need the DAOM to practice in the U.S. You only need a

Master's level degree. Therefore, the DAOM doesn't really matter except to the

one that has it. It means they cared enough to go the extra mile. And yes, the

efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's level. They have been

compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

Hope this helps,

Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

Chinese Medicine

singlewhip2001

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:30:45 +0000

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing agencies. The

Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally accepted degree.

Chinese Medicine , aqupoint wrote:

>

> Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

>

August 27, 2009

To be truthful, my feeling is that all these letters are useless and education

beyond entry level is for private inquiry and enlightenment. However, I am not a

big time academia fan, as I see present day universities as a bunch of blowhards

who get degrees to get degrees instead of having a genuine interest in students

and sharing intelligence.

I know of a Oriental Medicine program that was supposed to start up here in PA,

and the president, vice president in charge of allied health, and the provost

were all in favor, along with a state grant for start up, with plenty of space

available since there was a new 36 million allied health facility. The faculty

would not let it happen because if the president liked it, they didn't since

they didnt' like the president because he actually wanted to run the university

as a forward looking business instead of just go to state businesses and pull in

donation money. Petty *'s.

We do, however, need a first professional doctorate program for our profession

as entry level, and I acknowledge that we need to have DAOM's and their

equivalent to be able to teach at that level in today's educational environment.

David Molony

On Aug 27, 2009, at 3:30:45 PM, singlewhip2001 <singlewhip2001 wrote:

singlewhip2001 <singlewhip2001

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

August 27, 2009 3:30:45 PM EDT

Chinese Medicine

My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing agencies. The

Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally accepted degree.

--- In Chinese Medicine , aqupoint wrote:

>

> Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

>

August 27, 2009

The DAOM has been accredited by the Acupuncture accrediting institution two

years ago, and it has also been nationally and regionally accredited. Bastyr

was the first, followed by OCOM and then PCOM.

So yes, the DAOM is fully accredited by all acrediting agencies, OM and

otherwise.

Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

Chinese Medicine

singlewhip2001

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:26:57 +0000

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

An accredited institution does not mean AOM accreditation. Some accredited

institutions are approved by the department of secondary education, like UCLA,

Stanford, etc, that's why the degree is universally accepted.

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe the DAOM is accredited, its a work in

process. Let me know on this and the source you are using for it.

thanks

Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407

wrote:

>

> There is no accredited Phd in AOM to date. Therefore, that assertion is not

correct. There is only one accredited Doctorate in AOM in the United States, and

that is the DAOM.

>

> Also, one does not need the DAOM to practice in the U.S. You only need a

Master's level degree. Therefore, the DAOM doesn't really matter except to the

one that has it. It means they cared enough to go the extra mile. And yes, the

efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's level. They have been

compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

> Chinese Medicine

> singlewhip2001

> Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:30:45 +0000

> Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

>

> My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing agencies.

The Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally accepted

degree.

>

> Chinese Medicine , aqupoint@ wrote:

> >

> > Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

> >

August 27, 2009

Would you clarify the following statement i got from the ACAOM website:

" ACAOM is conducting reviews of post-graduate doctoral programs as a pilot

process. Since ACAOM's doctoral program reviews are not currently within ACAOM

scope of recognition with the U.S. Secretary of Education, institutions may not

use ACAOM's candidacy status to establish eligibility for Title IV financial aid

for students in these programs. "

thanks

Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407

wrote:

>

> The DAOM has been accredited by the Acupuncture accrediting institution two

years ago, and it has also been nationally and regionally accredited. Bastyr

was the first, followed by OCOM and then PCOM.

>

> So yes, the DAOM is fully accredited by all acrediting agencies, OM and

otherwise.

>

> Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

> Chinese Medicine

> singlewhip2001

> Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:26:57 +0000

> Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

>

> An accredited institution does not mean AOM accreditation. Some accredited

institutions are approved by the department of secondary education, like UCLA,

Stanford, etc, that's why the degree is universally accepted.

>

> Correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe the DAOM is accredited, its a work

in process. Let me know on this and the source you are using for it.

>

> thanks

>

> Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407@>

wrote:

> >

> > There is no accredited Phd in AOM to date. Therefore, that assertion is not

correct. There is only one accredited Doctorate in AOM in the United States, and

that is the DAOM.

> >

> > Also, one does not need the DAOM to practice in the U.S. You only need a

Master's level degree. Therefore, the DAOM doesn't really matter except to the

one that has it. It means they cared enough to go the extra mile. And yes, the

efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's level. They have been

compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

> >

> > Hope this helps,

> >

> > Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > singlewhip2001@

> > Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:30:45 +0000

> > Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

> >

> > My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing agencies.

The Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally accepted

degree.

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , aqupoint@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

> > >

August 27, 2009

Friend, I'm just stating what what done at PCOM. I'm not here to parse words.

You have your opions as do everyone else. You weren't at PCOM so you do not

know what was compared. I'll leave it at that.

Out,

Don J. SNow

Chinese Medicine

acudoc11

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:22:46 -0400

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

Not sure what is being defined as efficacious?

I know practitioners who acomplished apprenticeships and NO... DAOM or

Master degrees could ever compare.

So what might we be comparing? Just the average Masters degree to the DAOM

degree?

If so that makes sense that DAOM is more and higher education.

But efficacy in practice.....that is a whole other ball of wax.

Richard

In a message dated 8/27/2009 3:57:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

don83407 writes:

And yes, the efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's

level. They have been compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

August 27, 2009

right, there is the accreditation by the department of secondary education,

which follows from the Regional Councils of Colleges and Universities. Some OM

schools have such accreditation for their masters programs, including OCOM and

Bastyr, but none of the doctoral programs have that level of accreditation yet.

However, there is also the accreditation through the Council of Acupuncture

Schools and Colleges, which is worth less, you really do not have a regular

university degree, and they have just recently accredited some of the doctoral

programs, including OCOM.

People who have PhDs usually have them in other field, mine is in psychology,

and I make a point in all advertising to say what my doctorate is in. You could

work towards a PhD in psychology and specialize in pain physiology and

management, and end up with some useful skills. I find that being able to

evaluate and design research projects was really the most useful skill; also a

number of schools were interested in hiring me because I have a doctorate, but

the income they offer just does not compare to private practice, not even close.

Regards,

Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

angelapfa

www.InnerhealthSalem.com

Phone: 503 364 3022

-

singlewhip2001

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:26 PM

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

An accredited institution does not mean AOM accreditation. Some accredited

institutions are approved by the department of secondary education, like UCLA,

Stanford, etc, that's why the degree is universally accepted.

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe the DAOM is accredited, its a work

in process. Let me know on this and the source you are using for it.

thanks

Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow

<don83407 wrote:

>

> There is no accredited Phd in AOM to date. Therefore, that assertion is not

correct. There is only one accredited Doctorate in AOM in the United States, and

that is the DAOM.

>

> Also, one does not need the DAOM to practice in the U.S. You only need a

Master's level degree. Therefore, the DAOM doesn't really matter except to the

one that has it. It means they cared enough to go the extra mile. And yes, the

efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's level. They have been

compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

> Chinese Medicine

> singlewhip2001

> Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:30:45 +0000

> Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

>

> My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing agencies.

The Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally accepted

degree.

>

> Chinese Medicine , aqupoint@ wrote:

> >

> > Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

> >

August 28, 2009

I think we are using different terminology to describe two completely different

points of view. It has been said that ACAOM has conditionally accredited some

of its DAOM programs. This is true. They admit that they do not have the

authority to fully accredit DAOM programs as their charter with the Dept of

Education must expand to allow for this. So, on the one hand they appear to be

making a statement that they are accrediting DAOMs but in actuality they are not

really.

As for the ACAOM issue with DAOM funding, ACAOM accreditation is used by the

schools to provide students with access to title IV federal loans. Only Bastyr

is offering their DAOM with financial aid, which must be due to their being a

regionally accredited program (they are mainly a Naturopathic school). This is

why the current DAOM programs offer no financial aid from the govt.

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

www.minneapolisacupuncture.net

This email message is intended only for the personal use of the above named

recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, copy or

forward this email message. If you have received this communication in error,

please notify the sender immediately via email or phone and delete the message

accordingly.

Chinese Medicine

singlewhip2001

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:29:31 +0000

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

Would you clarify the following statement i got from the ACAOM

website:

" ACAOM is conducting reviews of post-graduate doctoral programs as a pilot

process. Since ACAOM's doctoral program reviews are not currently within ACAOM

scope of recognition with the U.S. Secretary of Education, institutions may not

use ACAOM's candidacy status to establish eligibility for Title IV financial aid

for students in these programs. "

thanks

Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407

wrote:

>

> The DAOM has been accredited by the Acupuncture accrediting institution two

years ago, and it has also been nationally and regionally accredited. Bastyr

was the first, followed by OCOM and then PCOM.

>

> So yes, the DAOM is fully accredited by all acrediting agencies, OM and

otherwise.

>

> Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

> Chinese Medicine

> singlewhip2001

> Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:26:57 +0000

> Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

>

> An accredited institution does not mean AOM accreditation. Some accredited

institutions are approved by the department of secondary education, like UCLA,

Stanford, etc, that's why the degree is universally accepted.

>

> Correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe the DAOM is accredited, its a work

in process. Let me know on this and the source you are using for it.

>

> thanks

>

> Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407@>

wrote:

> >

> > There is no accredited Phd in AOM to date. Therefore, that assertion is not

correct. There is only one accredited Doctorate in AOM in the United States, and

that is the DAOM.

> >

> > Also, one does not need the DAOM to practice in the U.S. You only need a

Master's level degree. Therefore, the DAOM doesn't really matter except to the

one that has it. It means they cared enough to go the extra mile. And yes, the

efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's level. They have been

compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

> >

> > Hope this helps,

> >

> > Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > singlewhip2001@

> > Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:30:45 +0000

> > Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

> >

> > My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing agencies.

The Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally accepted

degree.

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , aqupoint@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

> > >

August 28, 2009

ACAOM website confirms that this is conditional accreditation otherwise a school

would not have a problem getting federal financial aid for the DAOM.

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

Chinese Medicine

singlewhip2001

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:26:57 +0000

Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

An accredited institution does not mean AOM accreditation.

Some accredited institutions are approved by the department of secondary

education, like UCLA, Stanford, etc, that's why the degree is universally

accepted.

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe the DAOM is accredited, its a work in

process. Let me know on this and the source you are using for it.

thanks

Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407

wrote:

>

> There is no accredited Phd in AOM to date. Therefore, that assertion is not

correct. There is only one accredited Doctorate in AOM in the United States,

and that is the DAOM.

>

> Also, one does not need the DAOM to practice in the U.S. You only need a

Master's level degree. Therefore, the DAOM doesn't really matter except to the

one that has it. It means they cared enough to go the extra mile. And yes, the

efficacy of the DAOM is higher than that of the Master's level. They have been

compared at PCOM, which is where I earned my DAOM.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

> Chinese Medicine

> singlewhip2001

> Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:30:45 +0000

> Re: DAOM vs. DTCM

>

> My understanding is the DAOM has no value to Acupuncture licensing agencies.

The Ph.D. from an accredited institution is the only universally accepted

degree.

>

> Chinese Medicine , aqupoint@ wrote:

> >

> > Hello David: I will not matter what the title is ,if it is not accepted. I

assume the degrees are the same, but I don,t know and surely someone will say

they are not. I was in school for 4 years to learn what I know, but until there

is one World standard, there will be arguing about who knows more etc. You

should check with the area in which you want to work as to what you need too

have. William.

> >

August 28, 2009

Dear People -

I thought I would throw in my 2 cents on this discussion since I developed

Emperor's and SAMRA's doctoral program and have led the Academy of Oriental

Medicine at Austin (AOMA) through its candidacy phase and full membership site

visit with the regional accreditor: the Southern Association of Colleges and

Schools (SACS).

There are two primary recognized forms of accreditation, programmatic and

institutional. The regionals accredit institutions such as UCLA and Harvard.

Within those institutions, the professions of psychology and medicine have their

programmatic accreditation from within the discipline. Our profession gains

access to financial aid (Title IV funding) through ACAOM accreditation, and they

are recognized by the

Department of Education as a programmatic accreditor. To the best of my

knowledge, there are now 6 AOM schools that are regionally accredited and 3 in

candidacy.

No state accredits. They can recognize or approve a program. The PhD in

California has neither regional or programmatic accreditation. They have

approval to operate in California. The use of that degree for getting a union

card to teach in the university system won't work. It is an excellent program,

however. The DAOMs may operate within regionally accredited institutions; there

is only one at this time, and that is at Bastyr, their is another school with a

DAOM that is in candidacy status. But, no DAOM program is recognized by the DOE.

ACAOM now has success in approving DAOM programs to operate. Some are now in

their 5th cohorts, having graduated 4 classes.

ACAOM now has a sufficient track record to seek recognition from the DOE for

accrediting the DAOM programs. Further, ACAOM has maximum recognition from the

DOE for accrediting master degree programs and at the last review, had their

scope expanded to include master degree candidate schools (this in effect

allowed candidate schools to gain Title IV funding). The point is that ACAOM is

in good standing and should be able to effectively move their recognition

process through with the DOE without glitches.

Their are, however, the equivelent of regionally accredited PhD programs running

right now in China; some are conducted in English. One such program that I am

familiar with is at Chengdu TCM University.

Just as an aside, their is an elephant in the room, and that is branding. The

state presidents group will hold a town hall meeting at the AAAOM conference in

Albuqueque, NM. It is on Thursday, April 8, 2010. We are in a crisis about how

we represent who we are and what we do. Just look at the differences in title by

license and degree around the country in this profession. The group will be

looking at how we brand ourselvesw as a community. Leaders in two states are now

dealing with legal environements that prohibit the term Oriental as a descriptor

in any state docuements (California and Washington). Show up there and have your

voice heard. This process won;t end at the townhall, rather, it will be a

continuation.

Warmly,

Will

William R. Morris, PhD, DAOM, LAc

President, AOMA

2700 Anderson Lane Suite 204

Austin, TX 78757

Phone: 512-454-1188

Fax: 512-454-7001

http://aoma.edu/

AOMA: Transforming Lives and Communities Through Graduate Education in Oriental

Medicine

August 28, 2009

Will,

Any way to get this type of meeting broadcast online, either as a gotomeeting or

later put on youtube.com? For many of us, we cannot simply drop everything and

make a trip. Please pass this along so that more of us can become involved.

Thanks.

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

Chinese Medicine

wmorris33

Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:10:30 +0000