Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 hi my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? thank you so much avishay tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic www.kehilaty.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 avishay, I have used a combination of seirin for the really sensitive patients and used mac needles. I have gotten really good response from my patients from those needles as far as less pain from needle insertion. Dan Clark, Acupuncturist Chinese Medicine avishay_yamin Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:08:16 +0000 which needles to buy? hi my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? thank you so much avishay tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic www.kehilaty.com _______________ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St\ orage_062009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Avishay, Try Unico needles from Kenshin Trading Company ( www.kenshin.com ) they are very high quality and reasonably priced. I wouldn't use inferior needles on patients, they are more painful and harder to manipulate. Kol tov, On Jul 3, 2009, at 3:08 AM, avishay_yamin wrote: > > > hi > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my > community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no > more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of > acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by > using the internet. > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company > that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since > it is a community clinic. > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something > aout them? > > thank you so much > avishay > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > www.kehilaty.com > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hi Avishay, I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. Good luck in your search. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin wrote: avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin which needles to buy? Chinese Medicine Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM hi my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? thank you so much avishay tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic www.kehilaty.com --- Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hello group, My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. Hope this helped. J.Bedrosian Chinese Medicine , < wrote: > > Hi Avishay, > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > Good luck in your search. > Andrea Beth > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin wrote: > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin > which needles to buy? > Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > hi > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > thank you so much > avishay > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > www.kehilaty.com > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I started using Acuzone Korean needles a month or so ago, and I'm really happy with them. I find them to be very smooth and reasonably prices. --- On Fri, 7/3/09, nrgcreator <nrgcreator wrote: nrgcreator <nrgcreator Re: which needles to buy? Chinese Medicine Friday, July 3, 2009, 2:21 PM Hello group, My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline .com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. Hope this helped. J.Bedrosian Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <@.. .> wrote: > > Hi Avishay, > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > http://www.goacuzon e.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > www.lhasaoms. com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > Good luck in your search. > Andrea Beth > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ ...> wrote: > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ ...> > which needles to buy? > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > hi > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > thank you so much > avishay > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > www.kehilaty. com > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com/wiki/ CMTpedia > > http://groups. / group/Traditiona l_Chinese_ Medicine/ join and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 We enjoy DBC needles the most. Sharp, smooth without coatings, so no reaction concerns (like with Serins). 0.25 x 30 mm and 0.25 x 50 mm in the 10 needle/1 tube (spring 10)blister packs. Boxes of 1000 for ~$25, we usually buy 10-14 at a time. the 0.25 x 15 have full-length handles, good for big-fingered needlers doing auricular. Are most list members tube-needlers? or freehand? Mark Z. Chinese Medicine , " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator wrote: > > Hello group, > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > Hope this helped. > > J.Bedrosian > > > > Chinese Medicine , <@> wrote: > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > Good luck in your search. > > Andrea Beth > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> wrote: > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> > > which needles to buy? > > Chinese Medicine > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > hi > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > > > thank you so much > > avishay > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > www.kehilaty.com > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I don't like DBC because they get bends, kinks in them when you manipulate the needle, they do have good tips though. I like millenia because the steel has some spring in it and bounces back and flexes. The gold-plated millenia have dull tips though don't buy them. One of my mentors uses HBW does anyone use that brand? Asahi from Japan look good but are very expensive. Chinese Medicine , " zedbowls " <zaranski wrote: > > We enjoy DBC needles the most. Sharp, smooth without coatings, so no reaction concerns (like with Serins). 0.25 x 30 mm and 0.25 x 50 mm in the 10 needle/1 tube (spring 10)blister packs. Boxes of 1000 for ~$25, we usually buy 10-14 at a time. the 0.25 x 15 have full-length handles, good for big-fingered needlers doing auricular. > > Are most list members tube-needlers? or freehand? > > Mark Z. > > > Chinese Medicine , " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator@> wrote: > > > > Hello group, > > > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > > > Hope this helped. > > > > J.Bedrosian > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , <@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > > > Good luck in your search. > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > 635 S. 10th St. > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> wrote: > > > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> > > > which needles to buy? > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > > > hi > > > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > > > > > thank you so much > > > avishay > > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > > www.kehilaty.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 There is no doubt in my mind that Japanese needles are far superior to anything else out there. . On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:15 PM, jasonwcom wrote: > > I don't like DBC because they get bends, kinks in them when you > manipulate the needle, they do have good tips though. I like > millenia because the steel has some spring in it and bounces back > and flexes. The gold-plated millenia have dull tips though don't buy > them. > > One of my mentors uses HBW does anyone use that brand? > Asahi from Japan look good but are very expensive. Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I like HBW. good price, good quality Sharps brand are also good if you want thin-gauge needles that don't bend in half. K On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 5:15 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote: > > > I don't like DBC because they get bends, kinks in them when you manipulate > the needle, they do have good tips though. I like millenia because the steel > has some spring in it and bounces back and flexes. The gold-plated millenia > have dull tips though don't buy them. > > One of my mentors uses HBW does anyone use that brand? > Asahi from Japan look good but are very expensive. > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " zedbowls " <zaranski wrote: > > > > We enjoy DBC needles the most. Sharp, smooth without coatings, so no > reaction concerns (like with Serins). 0.25 x 30 mm and 0.25 x 50 mm in the > 10 needle/1 tube (spring 10)blister packs. Boxes of 1000 for ~$25, we > usually buy 10-14 at a time. the 0.25 x 15 have full-length handles, good > for big-fingered needlers doing auricular. > > > > Are most list members tube-needlers? or freehand? > > > > Mark Z. > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but > after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for > quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think > they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The > single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the > 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they > are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > > > > > Hope this helped. > > > > > > J.Bedrosian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > <@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some > complaints with them: > > > > > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce > waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to > order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks > to find), and then send them a check. > > > > > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups > of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it > is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my > hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 > smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling > clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the > packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > > > > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle > needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion > tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or > colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have > occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their > needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of > stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > > > > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC > Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). > I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the > little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier > gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. > Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more > affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty > obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a > substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without > the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them > in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, > which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My > ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a > loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer > longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost > needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, > take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in > boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I > would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > > > > > Good luck in your search. > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > > 635 S. 10th St. > > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> wrote: > > > > > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> > > > > which needles to buy? > > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > > > > > hi > > > > > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my > community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of > them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles > in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that > i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a > community clinic. > > > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something > aout them? > > > > > > > > thank you so much > > > > avishay > > > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > > > www.kehilaty.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese > medicine and acupuncture, click, > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > > > > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 How does DBC compare to Serin? Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 3, 2009 5:21:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re:  which needles to buy? Hello group, My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. Hope this helped. J.Bedrosian Chinese Medicine , < wrote: > > Hi Avishay, > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > Good luck in your search. > Andrea Beth > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin wrote: > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin > which needles to buy? > Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > hi > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > thank you so much > avishay > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > www.kehilaty.com > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 A good alternative to Seirin is Tewa. I'm not sure you can get these in the States, see http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/section/283/1/tewa_acupuncture_needles When i spoke to the Seirin sales rep in Rothenburg recently, even Seirin are amazed as to how good they are and how much cheaper they are. Haven't tried DBC, but can say other needles such as Sharp and Hwato are no way near as good as Tewa or Seirin. Regards, Attilio Chinese Medicine , Anne Crowley <anne.crowley wrote: > > > > How does DBC compare to Serin? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Anne > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > - > " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator > " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > > Friday, July 3, 2009 5:21:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Re:  which needles to buy? > > Hello group, > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > Hope this helped. > > J.Bedrosian > > Chinese Medicine , <@> wrote: > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > Good luck in your search. > > Andrea Beth > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> wrote: > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> > > which needles to buy? > > Chinese Medicine > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > hi > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > > > thank you so much > > avishay > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > www.kehilaty.com > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 thank you all for replaying. it is realy a bug help. i will order 4 brands out of all the brands mentiond and try them myself. avishay Chinese Medicine , yehuda frischman < wrote: > > I started using Acuzone Korean needles a month or so ago, and I'm really happy with them. I find them to be very smooth and reasonably prices. > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, nrgcreator <nrgcreator wrote: > > > nrgcreator <nrgcreator > Re: which needles to buy? > Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 3, 2009, 2:21 PM > > Hello group, > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline .com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > Hope this helped. > > J.Bedrosian > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <@ .> wrote: > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > http://www.goacuzon e.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > www.lhasaoms. com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > Good luck in your search. > > Andrea Beth > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ ...> wrote: > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ ...> > > which needles to buy? > > > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > hi > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > > > thank you so much > > avishay > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > www.kehilaty. com > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com/wiki/ CMTpedia > > > > http://groups. / group/Traditiona l_Chinese_ Medicine/ join and adjust accordingly. > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Tewa will soon be available via golden needle. Joey Bedrosian LMBT (NC#3259) Advanced Massage Therapy 704-578-6245 nrgcreator live long & love strong ________________________________ <attiliodalberto Chinese Medicine Saturday, July 4, 2009 2:44:50 AM Re: which needles to buy? A good alternative to Seirin is Tewa. I'm not sure you can get these in the States, see http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com/section/ 283/1/tewa_ acupuncture_ needles When i spoke to the Seirin sales rep in Rothenburg recently, even Seirin are amazed as to how good they are and how much cheaper they are. Haven't tried DBC, but can say other needles such as Sharp and Hwato are no way near as good as Tewa or Seirin. Regards, Attilio Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Anne Crowley <anne.crowley@ ...> wrote: > > > > How does DBC compare to Serin? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Anne > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com > > - > " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator@ ...> > " Traditional " <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine > > Friday, July 3, 2009 5:21:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Re:  which needles to buy? > > Hello group, > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline .com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > Hope this helped. > > J.Bedrosian > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <@> wrote: > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > www.lhasaoms. com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > Good luck in your search. > > Andrea Beth > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ > wrote: > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ > > > which needles to buy? > > > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > hi > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > > > thank you so much > > avishay > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > www.kehilaty. com > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com/wiki/ CMTpedia > > > > http://groups. / group/Traditiona l_Chinese_ Medicine/ join and adjust accordingly. > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Hi Mark, I use tubes most often. Although I enjoy freehand needling, my patients find it uncomfortable as compared to insertions with the guide tubes. Really, what I think they are feeling with freehand insertions, is my qi, which makes them more aware of the insertion than with the tubes. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Fri, 7/3/09, zedbowls <zaranski wrote: zedbowls <zaranski Re: which needles to buy? Chinese Medicine Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:28 PM We enjoy DBC needles the most. Sharp, smooth without coatings, so no reaction concerns (like with Serins). 0.25 x 30 mm and 0.25 x 50 mm in the 10 needle/1 tube (spring 10)blister packs. Boxes of 1000 for ~$25, we usually buy 10-14 at a time. the 0.25 x 15 have full-length handles, good for big-fingered needlers doing auricular. Are most list members tube-needlers? or freehand? Mark Z. Chinese Medicine , " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator wrote: > > Hello group, > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > Hope this helped. > > J.Bedrosian > > > > Chinese Medicine , <@> wrote: > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > Good luck in your search. > > Andrea Beth > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> wrote: > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> > > TCM - which needles to buy? > > Chinese Medicine > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > hi > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > > > thank you so much > > avishay > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > www.kehilaty.com > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 PS Mark, I agree with your assessment that longer handles facilitate auricular insertions. I have frequently stuck myself when using short-handled needles, and my hands are quite small. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Fri, 7/3/09, zedbowls <zaranski wrote: zedbowls <zaranski Re: which needles to buy? Chinese Medicine Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:28 PM We enjoy DBC needles the most. Sharp, smooth without coatings, so no reaction concerns (like with Serins). 0.25 x 30 mm and 0.25 x 50 mm in the 10 needle/1 tube (spring 10)blister packs. Boxes of 1000 for ~$25, we usually buy 10-14 at a time. the 0.25 x 15 have full-length handles, good for big-fingered needlers doing auricular. Are most list members tube-needlers? or freehand? Mark Z. Chinese Medicine , " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator wrote: > > Hello group, > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > Hope this helped. > > J.Bedrosian > > > > Chinese Medicine , <@> wrote: > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > Good luck in your search. > > Andrea Beth > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> wrote: > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@> > > TCM - which needles to buy? > > Chinese Medicine > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > hi > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > > > thank you so much > > avishay > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > www.kehilaty.com > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 DBCs are not at all like Seirins. However, Lhasa OMS makes a Seirin-type needle that is less costly than Seirins. I don't use them, but one of my colleagues here does, and she loves them. I don't know what they are called. Lhasa also sells a needle called Activa, which has a textured shaft. Supposedly it " vibrates " when the needle is twirled. Has anyone explored using these? Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Anne Crowley <anne.crowley wrote: Anne Crowley <anne.crowley Re: which needles to buy? " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 3, 2009, 7:39 PM How does DBC compare to Serin? Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " nrgcreator " <nrgcreator " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 3, 2009 5:21:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: which needles to buy? Hello group, My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after my supplier (goldenneedleonline.com) stopped carrying them for quality related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. Hope this helped. J.Bedrosian Chinese Medicine , < wrote: > > Hi Avishay, > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some complaints with them: > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks to find), and then send them a check. > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > http://www.goacuzone.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > www.lhasaoms.com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > Good luck in your search. > Andrea Beth > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin wrote: > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin > which needles to buy? > Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > hi > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a community clinic. > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout them? > > thank you so much > avishay > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > www.kehilaty.com > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. 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Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Just curious what the conditions are for a " good " and " bad " needle? This might be subjective. What factors for excellence do we share? For some,, .. value (price for quality), for others... there is no pricetag. For some.. lack of pain felt by the patient upon insertion, for others... how easily de qi can be attained through a piece of stainless steel. For some.. the tubing is significant... for others... no. K On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 2:31 AM, avishay_yamin <avishay_yaminwrote: > > > > thank you all for replaying. it is realy a bug help. > i will order 4 brands out of all the brands mentiond and try them myself. > > avishay > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > yehuda frischman > > > < wrote: > > > > I started using Acuzone Korean needles a month or so ago, and I'm really > happy with them. I find them to be very smooth and reasonably prices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, nrgcreator <nrgcreator wrote: > > > > > > nrgcreator <nrgcreator > > > Re: which needles to buy? > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 2:21 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > My thoughts on MAC and DBC. I started off in school using MAC, but after > my supplier (goldenneedleonline .com) stopped carrying them for quality > related issues (i think) stated below, i switched to DBC. I think they are > actually better than MAC and are a little cheaper as well. The single needle > per tube (100 box) is just over 4USD and they also make the 1000 Boxes like > MAC. I have tried over 15 different needle brands and they are by far my > fav. You may be able to get samples mailed to try them first. > > > > Hope this helped. > > > > J.Bedrosian > > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Andrea Beth > Damsky <@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Avishay, > > > > > > I used to use the Mac needles, and I liked them, but I also have some > complaints with them: > > > > > > I like to buy needles in bulk (boxes of 1000) to save cost and reduce > waste, but these are difficult to purchase (hard to find) in Macs. I had to > order them by email from their distributor in New York (which took me weeks > to find), and then send them a check. > > > > > > The little plastic pouches that the Macs are packaged in (in groups of > 10) are difficult to open, and produce enough static electricity that it is > difficult to remove the needles, and hard to get the pouches out of my hand > and into the trash can! On the plus side, each box of 1000 contains 10 > smaller boxes of 100, which are nice portable sizes for a traveling > clinic, but on the negative side, creates more waste. I found the > packaging and ordering issues bothersome enough that I no longer order Macs. > > > > > > I have 2 suggestions for other bulk-packaged needles: > > > > > > http://www.goacuzon e.com/ charges $26.99 for 1000 spring handle > needles without the little loop at the top. I like their blue insertion > tubes, which are much easier to see against clinic sheets than clear or > colorless/white tubes. Their 10-packs are a little hard to open, and I have > occasionally stuck my fingers on the hard plastic. Although I used their > needles exclusively for years, in recent years they have often been out of > stock for extended periods, so I have switched to the one below: > > > > > > www.lhasaoms. com charges $22.50 for 1000 spring handle needles (DBC > Spring-10 bulk) or $29.00 for 1000 pipe handle needles (DBS Pipe-10 bulk). > I prefer the spring handle needles, and these are also the type without the > little loop at the top. Interestingly, I find DBC's needles to be a heavier > gauge than others, for reportedly the same size, and also a little shorter. > Lhasa OMS also makes their own version of Seirin-type needles, at a more > affordable cost than actual Seirins. > > > > > > I'm pretty picky about needles, and whenever I have difficulty > obtaining the ones I like to use, it can take months before I find a > substitute I am satisfied with. I definitely prefer spring handles without > the loop (I find them easiest to handle, and you can fit many more of them > in the sharps container than the ones with the loop or the pipe handles, > which tend to get entangled in each other and take up extra space.) My > ideal would be if I could find a manufacturer who makes these with a > loopless spring handle in copper, but alas, these don't exist. I prefer > longer needles to the very short ones, for avoiding needle sticks and lost > needles. And I always buy in boxes of 1000 - they are less costly this way, > take less storage space, and create less waste. If only Seirins came in > boxes of 1000 (I have been hearing this is in the works for years) -- I > would buy Seirins more often if they did. > > > > > > Good luck in your search. > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > 635 S. 10th St. > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin@ ...> > > > which needles to buy? > > > > > > Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:08 AM > > > > > > hi > > > > > > my name is avishay and i am an acupuncturist from israel. > > > i was succesfuly using untill now ELITE ACUPRIME needles in my > community acupuncture clinic in israel but unforunally there is no more of > them in israel and i cant find any other good brand of acupuncture needles > in israel so i want to buy some from the USA by using the internet. > > > > > > can you please recocmend me some good acuuncture needles company that i > should try? i want to pay less then 6 USD per packege since it is a > community clinic. > > > i heared that MAC neddels are good. can you please write something aout > them? > > > > > > thank you so much > > > avishay > > > tel aviv comunity acupuncture clinic > > > www.kehilaty. com > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com > > > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesem edicinetimes. com/wiki/ > CMTpedia > > > > > > http://groups. > / group/Traditiona l_Chinese_ Medicine/ join and adjust > accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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