TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

[Guest guest]

a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not know

the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a copy of

the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking it

might be

 

*Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of the immune

system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL is caused

by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the body are

pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin> in a

biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on the skin.

These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically beginning as

what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and eventually

forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other parts of

the body.

 

it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i interpret

as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

 

T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

 

58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

 

many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

(onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair, nails, shi

life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet allergies:

red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

 

hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med. goiter no

longer present 12/08 exam.

 

i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find any

references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can provide

tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference material?

 

i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is playing a

role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that appeared

after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is playing a

role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

 

appreciate whatever you can offer

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

Available at Asheville Center for :

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

and from the following supply companies:

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her health

history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a red flag.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

alumni

CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ; aculynn

acukath

Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not know

 

the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a copy of

 

the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking it

 

might be

 

 

 

*Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

 

lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

 

which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of the immune

 

system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

 

non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL is caused

 

by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

 

malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the body are

 

pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin> in a

 

biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

 

various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on the skin.

 

These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically beginning as

 

what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and eventually

 

forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

 

metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other parts of

 

the body.

 

 

 

it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

 

pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

 

coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

 

tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i interpret

 

as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

 

 

 

T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

 

 

 

58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

 

discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

 

 

 

many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

 

(onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair, nails, shi

 

life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet allergies:

 

red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

 

 

 

hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med. goiter no

 

longer present 12/08 exam.

 

 

 

i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find any

 

references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

 

primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can provide

 

tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference material?

 

 

 

i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is playing a

 

role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that appeared

 

after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is playing a

 

role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

 

appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

 

 

 

appreciate whatever you can offer

 

 

 

--

 

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

 

Oriental Medicine

 

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

 

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

 

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

 

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

 

Available at Asheville Center for :

 

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

 

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

 

 

and from the following supply companies:

 

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

 

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

 

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

 

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

 

Asheville Center For

 

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

 

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

 

kbartlett

 

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

HI Mike, Kath (I think) and all:

 

--Mike-

I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her

health history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a

red flag.

---

 

I second Mike's idea plus a slightly different spin too: Make sure she has a

clear, sane, no-hidden-motivations reason behind her decision, because she could

be one of these patients with serious trust issues who will blockade you at

every crucial step because they " need to know and understand (exactly) what is

going on " . This could put you in jeopardy, especially if the patient manages to

bind you up and make you paint yourself into a corner (i.e. because of the

confusion you didn't refer out when you should have), and then *you* get saddled

with the accusation of delaying / obstructing proper care.

 

Hugo

 

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

Chinese Traditional Medicine ; alumni

Wednesday, 3 June, 2009 22:47:40

RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

 

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

alumni

CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ; aculynn

acukath

Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not know

 

the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a copy of

 

the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking it

 

might be

 

 

 

*Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

 

lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

 

which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of the immune

 

system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

 

non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL is caused

 

by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

 

malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the body are

 

pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin> in a

 

biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

 

various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on the skin.

 

These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically beginning as

 

what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and eventually

 

forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

 

metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other parts of

 

the body.

 

 

 

it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

 

pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

 

coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

 

tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i interpret

 

as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

 

 

 

T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

 

 

 

58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

 

discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

 

 

 

many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

 

(onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair, nails, shi

 

life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet allergies:

 

red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

 

 

 

hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med. goiter no

 

longer present 12/08 exam.

 

 

 

i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find any

 

references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

 

primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can provide

 

tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference material?

 

 

 

i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is playing a

 

role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that appeared

 

after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is playing a

 

role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

 

appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

 

 

 

appreciate whatever you can offer

 

 

 

--

 

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

 

Oriental Medicine

 

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

 

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

 

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

 

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

 

Available at Asheville Center for :

 

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

 

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

 

 

and from the following supply companies:

 

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

 

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

 

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

 

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

 

Asheville Center For

 

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

 

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

 

kbartlett

 

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

And I am sorry to add that cancer has a bit of a legal mess/

ramifications. I would protect yourself in this case. Get a definite

diagnosis from a western MD before proceeding and a letter from his

office acknowledging that you are seeing his/her patient.

 

Anne Biris

 

On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

 

>

>

> HI Mike, Kath (I think) and all:

>

> --Mike-

> I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her

> health history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a

> red flag.

> ---

>

> I second Mike's idea plus a slightly different spin too: Make sure

> she has a clear, sane, no-hidden-motivations reason behind her

> decision, because she could be one of these patients with serious

> trust issues who will blockade you at every crucial step because

> they " need to know and understand (exactly) what is going on " . This

> could put you in jeopardy, especially if the patient manages to bind

> you up and make you paint yourself into a corner (i.e. because of

> the confusion you didn't refer out when you should have), and then

> *you* get saddled with the accusation of delaying / obstructing

> proper care.

>

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

>

> ________________________________

> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

> Chinese Traditional Medicine ; alumni

> Wednesday, 3 June, 2009 22:47:40

> RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>

> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

>

> alumni

> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> aculynn

> acukath

> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>

> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

> know

>

> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

> copy of

>

> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

> it

>

> might be

>

> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

>

> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

>

> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

> the immune

>

> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

>

> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

> is caused

>

> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

>

> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

> body are

>

> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> Skin> in a

>

> biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

>

> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

> the skin.

>

> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> beginning as

>

> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

> eventually

>

> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

>

> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> parts of

>

> the body.

>

> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

>

> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

>

> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

>

> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> interpret

>

> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

>

> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

>

> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

>

> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

>

> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

>

> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> nails, shi

>

> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> allergies:

>

> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

>

> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> goiter no

>

> longer present 12/08 exam.

>

> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

> any

>

> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

>

> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> provide

>

> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> material?

>

> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

> playing a

>

> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> appeared

>

> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

> playing a

>

> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

>

> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

>

> appreciate whatever you can offer

>

> --

>

>

>

> Oriental Medicine

>

> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>

> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

>

> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

>

> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

>

> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

>

> Available at Asheville Center for :

>

> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

>

> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

>

> and from the following supply companies:

>

> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

>

> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

>

> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

>

>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

>

> Asheville Center For

>

> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

>

> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

>

> kbartlett

>

> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Michael. As intriguing and challenging a presentation this is,

personal info seems a bit short and slim. Could be a setup, could be anything.

If in our profession where all the particulars of the patients' experience are

absolutely confidential, esp in my state, well, the personal story seems lacking

or vague. And the person must be present;, don't step outside looking for purely

diagnostic clues; where are the eyes, and the voice? What is your real story

miss?

 Sure, there are the stories of coutesans just displaying their wrist for pulse

diagnosis, without dialog with a lowly doctor. If you are not an absolute master

genius, which I wish I was, a little more personal info would help greatly. If

they want us on their side, be on our side, too. Thanks

l

 

--- On Wed, 6/3/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

Chinese Traditional Medicine , alumni

Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 10:47 PM

 

 

I would be hesitant to treat one that will not

share with you her health history, mostly from a legal standpoint.  Please

consider this a red flag.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

alumni

CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ; aculynn

acukath

Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

TCM -  TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

           

       

   

 

 

     

      a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin.  she did not

know

 

the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a copy of

 

the pathology report for me).  based on the presentation, i'm thnking it

 

might be

 

 

 

*Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

 

lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

 

which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of the immune

 

system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

 

non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL is

caused

 

by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

 

malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the body are

 

pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin> in a

 

biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

 

various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on the skin.

 

These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically beginning as

 

what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and eventually

 

forming plaques and

tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

 

metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other parts of

 

the body.

 

 

 

it began as an atopic rash.  she's had 2 legions biopsied.  what she's

 

pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

 

coloration.   there are a few on various places on her calves.  her skin

 

tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i interpret

 

as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

 

 

 

T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C.  P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

 

 

 

58yf,  has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

 

discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

 

 

 

many other s/s,

including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

 

(onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair, nails, shi

 

life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet allergies:

 

red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

 

 

 

hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago.  tx with levoxil. titrated off med.  goiter no

 

longer present 12/08 exam.

 

 

 

i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find any

 

references to this condition.  i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx.  am

 

primarily looking for formula references.  wondering if anyone can provide

 

tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference material?

 

 

 

i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is playing a

 

role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that appeared

 

after dry

brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is playing a

 

role here).  the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme.  the rash

 

appeared 8/08 - 10/08.   the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

 

 

 

appreciate whatever you can offer

 

 

 

--

 

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS,  BA UCLA

 

Oriental Medicine

 

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

 

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

 

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

Flying Dragon Liniment:  Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

 

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

 

Available at Asheville Center for :

 

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

 

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

 

 

and from the

following supply companies:

 

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

 

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

 

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

 

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

 

Asheville Center For

 

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

 

Asheville, NC  28801     828.258.2777

 

kbartlett

 

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i appreciate your concern and the legal heads up. when i saw her tues.

she said she would get the pathology report and tell the doc she wanted it

for me (tcm tx). it sounds like the concern is coming from a fear of the

doctor's reaction that she was pursuing other care outside his office. i

see this, esp. with CA patients: patients honestly fear that requesting

records and questioning the doc will ruffle the doc's feathers and

compromise their care. as i mentioned, this one has significant anxiety

issues, so this fear is magnified in her case. i'm trying to talk her down

and get her to realize that the doc is a prof, but i find this neurosis to

be a mentality that is difficult to change.

 

k

 

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Anne Biris <lotuskarma wrote:

 

> And I am sorry to add that cancer has a bit of a legal mess/

> ramifications. I would protect yourself in this case. Get a definite

> diagnosis from a western MD before proceeding and a letter from his

> office acknowledging that you are seeing his/her patient.

>

> Anne Biris

>

> On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > HI Mike, Kath (I think) and all:

> >

> > --Mike-

> > I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her

> > health history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a

> > red flag.

> > ---

> >

> > I second Mike's idea plus a slightly different spin too: Make sure

> > she has a clear, sane, no-hidden-motivations reason behind her

> > decision, because she could be one of these patients with serious

> > trust issues who will blockade you at every crucial step because

> > they " need to know and understand (exactly) what is going on " . This

> > could put you in jeopardy, especially if the patient manages to bind

> > you up and make you paint yourself into a corner (i.e. because of

> > the confusion you didn't refer out when you should have), and then

> > *you* get saddled with the accusation of delaying / obstructing

> > proper care.

> >

> > Hugo

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

> >

> > ________________________________

> > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

> > Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> alumni

> > Wednesday, 3 June, 2009 22:47:40

> > RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> >

> > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> >

> > alumni

> > CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> > aculynn

> > acukath

> > Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> > TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> >

> > a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

> > know

> >

> > the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

> > copy of

> >

> > the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

> > it

> >

> > might be

> >

> > *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

> >

> > lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

> >

> > which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

> > the immune

> >

> > system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

> >

> > non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

> > is caused

> >

> > by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

> >

> > malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

> > body are

> >

> > pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> > Skin> in a

> >

> > biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

> >

> > various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

> > the skin.

> >

> > These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> > beginning as

> >

> > what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

> > eventually

> >

> > forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

> >

> > metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> > parts of

> >

> > the body.

> >

> > it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

> >

> > pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

> >

> > coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

> >

> > tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> > interpret

> >

> > as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

> >

> > T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

> >

> > 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

> >

> > discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

> >

> > many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

> >

> > (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> > nails, shi

> >

> > life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> > allergies:

> >

> > red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

> >

> > hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> > goiter no

> >

> > longer present 12/08 exam.

> >

> > i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

> > any

> >

> > references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

> >

> > primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> > provide

> >

> > tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> > material?

> >

> > i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

> > playing a

> >

> > role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> > appeared

> >

> > after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

> > playing a

> >

> > role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

> >

> > appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

> >

> > appreciate whatever you can offer

> >

> > --

> >

> >

> >

> > Oriental Medicine

> >

> > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> >

> > Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

> >

> > http://acukath.blogspot.com/

> >

> > Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

> >

> > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> >

> > Available at Asheville Center for :

> >

> > www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

> >

> > Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> >

> > and from the following supply companies:

> >

> > Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> >

> > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

> >

> > Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> >

> >

>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

> >

> > Asheville Center For

> >

> > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> >

> > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> >

> > kbartlett

> >

> > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Kath,

Learning to set a boundary (like permission to talk with other professionals) is

important and should not be overlooked just because a patient has some emotional

issues. The legal ones are the ones that come back to bite us in the

you-know-what and not our compassion to help. She should want you to be able to

discuss things with her MD, so that you could have as much info as possible to

treat her well. This looks more like she is attempting to limit your access to

this physician or what is in her file. I say that as she is willing to get a

copy of a lab report but refusing to sign the permission form and failure to get

you a copy of her complete file. Please think again about these irregularities

of behavior. Hind-sight is 20/20.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

 

> Chinese Medicine

> acukath

> Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:28:51 -0400

> Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>

> i appreciate your concern and the legal heads up. when i saw her tues.

> she said she would get the pathology report and tell the doc she wanted it

> for me (tcm tx). it sounds like the concern is coming from a fear of the

> doctor's reaction that she was pursuing other care outside his office. i

> see this, esp. with CA patients: patients honestly fear that requesting

> records and questioning the doc will ruffle the doc's feathers and

> compromise their care. as i mentioned, this one has significant anxiety

> issues, so this fear is magnified in her case. i'm trying to talk her down

> and get her to realize that the doc is a prof, but i find this neurosis to

> be a mentality that is difficult to change.

>

> k

>

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Anne Biris <lotuskarma wrote:

>

>> And I am sorry to add that cancer has a bit of a legal mess/

>> ramifications. I would protect yourself in this case. Get a definite

>> diagnosis from a western MD before proceeding and a letter from his

>> office acknowledging that you are seeing his/her patient.

>>

>> Anne Biris

>>

>> On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> HI Mike, Kath (I think) and all:

>>>

>>> --Mike-

>>> I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her

>>> health history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a

>>> red flag.

>>> ---

>>>

>>> I second Mike's idea plus a slightly different spin too: Make sure

>>> she has a clear, sane, no-hidden-motivations reason behind her

>>> decision, because she could be one of these patients with serious

>>> trust issues who will blockade you at every crucial step because

>>> they " need to know and understand (exactly) what is going on " . This

>>> could put you in jeopardy, especially if the patient manages to bind

>>> you up and make you paint yourself into a corner (i.e. because of

>>> the confusion you didn't refer out when you should have), and then

>>> *you* get saddled with the accusation of delaying / obstructing

>>> proper care.

>>>

>>> Hugo

>>>

>>> ________________________________

>>> Hugo Ramiro

>>> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

>>> http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

>>>

>>> ________________________________

>>> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

>>> Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

>> alumni

>>> Wednesday, 3 June, 2009 22:47:40

>>> RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>>>

>>> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

>>>

>>> alumni

>>> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

>>> aculynn

>>> acukath

>>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

>>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>>>

>>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

>>> know

>>>

>>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

>>> copy of

>>>

>>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

>>> it

>>>

>>> might be

>>>

>>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

>>>

>>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

>>>

>>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

>>> the immune

>>>

>>> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

>>>

>>> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

>>> is caused

>>>

>>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

>>>

>>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

>>> body are

>>>

>>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

>>> Skin> in a

>>>

>>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

>>>

>>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

>>> the skin.

>>>

>>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

>>> beginning as

>>>

>>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

>>> eventually

>>>

>>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

>>>

>>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

>>> parts of

>>>

>>> the body.

>>>

>>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

>>>

>>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

>>>

>>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

>>>

>>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

>>> interpret

>>>

>>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

>>>

>>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

>>>

>>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

>>>

>>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

>>>

>>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

>>>

>>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

>>> nails, shi

>>>

>>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

>>> allergies:

>>>

>>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

>>>

>>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

>>> goiter no

>>>

>>> longer present 12/08 exam.

>>>

>>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

>>> any

>>>

>>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

>>>

>>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

>>> provide

>>>

>>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

>>> material?

>>>

>>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

>>> playing a

>>>

>>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

>>> appeared

>>>

>>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

>>> playing a

>>>

>>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

>>>

>>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

>>>

>>> appreciate whatever you can offer

>>>

>>> --

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Oriental Medicine

>>>

>>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>>>

>>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

>>>

>>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

>>>

>>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

>>>

>>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

>>>

>>> Available at Asheville Center for :

>>>

>>> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

>>>

>>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

>>>

>>> and from the following supply companies:

>>>

>>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

>>>

>>> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

>>>

>>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

>>>

>>>

>>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

>>>

>>> Asheville Center For

>>>

>>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

>>>

>>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

>>>

>>> kbartlett

>>>

>>> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

HI all:

 

I feel it is very important to present oneself in clinic as a health

professional allied with all other health professionals and, further, one who

*can* function as an advocate, but only within an arena of respectful

professionalism.

In other words, it's not a problem to share complaints about experiences with

MDs and the medical system, but it is not ok to buy into an us and them

mentality.

 

Thoughts?

 

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, 4 June, 2009 15:49:07

RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

 

Kath,

Learning to set a boundary (like permission to talk with other professionals) is

important and should not be overlooked just because a patient has some emotional

issues. The legal ones are the ones that come back to bite us in the

you-know-what and not our compassion to help. She should want you to be able to

discuss things with her MD, so that you could have as much info as possible to

treat her well. This looks more like she is attempting to limit your access to

this physician or what is in her file. I say that as she is willing to get a

copy of a lab report but refusing to sign the permission form and failure to get

you a copy of her complete file. Please think again about these irregularities

of behavior. Hind-sight is 20/20.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

 

> Chinese Medicine

> acukath

> Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:28:51 -0400

> Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>

> i appreciate your concern and the legal heads up. when i saw her tues.

> she said she would get the pathology report and tell the doc she wanted it

> for me (tcm tx). it sounds like the concern is coming from a fear of the

> doctor's reaction that she was pursuing other care outside his office. i

> see this, esp. with CA patients: patients honestly fear that requesting

> records and questioning the doc will ruffle the doc's feathers and

> compromise their care. as i mentioned, this one has significant anxiety

> issues, so this fear is magnified in her case. i'm trying to talk her down

> and get her to realize that the doc is a prof, but i find this neurosis to

> be a mentality that is difficult to change.

>

> k

>

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Anne Biris <lotuskarma wrote:

>

>> And I am sorry to add that cancer has a bit of a legal mess/

>> ramifications. I would protect yourself in this case. Get a definite

>> diagnosis from a western MD before proceeding and a letter from his

>> office acknowledging that you are seeing his/her patient.

>>

>> Anne Biris

>>

>> On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> HI Mike, Kath (I think) and all:

>>>

>>> --Mike-

>>> I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her

>>> health history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a

>>> red flag.

>>> ---

>>>

>>> I second Mike's idea plus a slightly different spin too: Make sure

>>> she has a clear, sane, no-hidden-motivations reason behind her

>>> decision, because she could be one of these patients with serious

>>> trust issues who will blockade you at every crucial step because

>>> they " need to know and understand (exactly) what is going on " . This

>>> could put you in jeopardy, especially if the patient manages to bind

>>> you up and make you paint yourself into a corner (i.e. because of

>>> the confusion you didn't refer out when you should have), and then

>>> *you* get saddled with the accusation of delaying / obstructing

>>> proper care.

>>>

>>> Hugo

>>>

>>> ________________________________

>>> Hugo Ramiro

>>> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

>>> http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

>>>

>>> ________________________________

>>> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

>>> Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

>> alumni

>>> Wednesday, 3 June, 2009 22:47:40

>>> RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>>>

>>> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

>>>

>>> alumni

>>> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

>>> aculynn

>>> acukath

>>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

>>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>>>

>>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

>>> know

>>>

>>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

>>> copy of

>>>

>>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

>>> it

>>>

>>> might be

>>>

>>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

>>>

>>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

>>>

>>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

>>> the immune

>>>

>>> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

>>>

>>> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

>>> is caused

>>>

>>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

>>>

>>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

>>> body are

>>>

>>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

>>> Skin> in a

>>>

>>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

>>>

>>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

>>> the skin.

>>>

>>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

>>> beginning as

>>>

>>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

>>> eventually

>>>

>>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

>>>

>>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

>>> parts of

>>>

>>> the body.

>>>

>>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

>>>

>>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

>>>

>>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

>>>

>>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

>>> interpret

>>>

>>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

>>>

>>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

>>>

>>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

>>>

>>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

>>>

>>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

>>>

>>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

>>> nails, shi

>>>

>>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

>>> allergies:

>>>

>>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

>>>

>>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

>>> goiter no

>>>

>>> longer present 12/08 exam.

>>>

>>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

>>> any

>>>

>>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

>>>

>>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

>>> provide

>>>

>>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

>>> material?

>>>

>>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

>>> playing a

>>>

>>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

>>> appeared

>>>

>>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

>>> playing a

>>>

>>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

>>>

>>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

>>>

>>> appreciate whatever you can offer

>>>

>>> --

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Oriental Medicine

>>>

>>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>>>

>>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

>>>

>>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

>>>

>>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

>>>

>>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

>>>

>>> Available at Asheville Center for :

>>>

>>> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

>>>

>>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

>>>

>>> and from the following supply companies:

>>>

>>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

>>>

>>> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

>>>

>>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

>>>

>>>

>>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

>>>

>>> Asheville Center For

>>>

>>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

>>>

>>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

>>>

>>> kbartlett

>>>

>>> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

I just saw a article in the Asheville, NC newspaper stating that over 60% of

cancer patients are now seeking some kind of alternative therapy.......of course

they are and they should.

 

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

> Chinese Medicine

> acukath

> Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:28:51 -0400

> Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>

> i appreciate your concern and the legal heads up. when i saw her tues.

> she said she would get the pathology report and tell the doc she wanted it

> for me (tcm tx). it sounds like the concern is coming from a fear of the

> doctor's reaction that she was pursuing other care outside his office. i

> see this, esp. with CA patients: patients honestly fear that requesting

> records and questioning the doc will ruffle the doc's feathers and

> compromise their care. as i mentioned, this one has significant anxiety

> issues, so this fear is magnified in her case. i'm trying to talk her down

> and get her to realize that the doc is a prof, but i find this neurosis to

> be a mentality that is difficult to change.

>

> k

>

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Anne Biris <lotuskarma wrote:

>

> > And I am sorry to add that cancer has a bit of a legal mess/

> > ramifications. I would protect yourself in this case. Get a definite

> > diagnosis from a western MD before proceeding and a letter from his

> > office acknowledging that you are seeing his/her patient.

> >

> > Anne Biris

> >

> > On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > HI Mike, Kath (I think) and all:

> > >

> > > --Mike-

> > > I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her

> > > health history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a

> > > red flag.

> > > ---

> > >

> > > I second Mike's idea plus a slightly different spin too: Make sure

> > > she has a clear, sane, no-hidden-motivations reason behind her

> > > decision, because she could be one of these patients with serious

> > > trust issues who will blockade you at every crucial step because

> > > they " need to know and understand (exactly) what is going on " . This

> > > could put you in jeopardy, especially if the patient manages to bind

> > > you up and make you paint yourself into a corner (i.e. because of

> > > the confusion you didn't refer out when you should have), and then

> > > *you* get saddled with the accusation of delaying / obstructing

> > > proper care.

> > >

> > > Hugo

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

> > > Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> > alumni

> > > Wednesday, 3 June, 2009 22:47:40

> > > RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> > >

> > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> > >

> > > alumni

> > > CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> > > aculynn

> > > acukath

> > > Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> > > TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> > >

> > > a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

> > > know

> > >

> > > the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

> > > copy of

> > >

> > > the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

> > > it

> > >

> > > might be

> > >

> > > *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

> > >

> > > lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

> > >

> > > which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

> > > the immune

> > >

> > > system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

> > >

> > > non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

> > > is caused

> > >

> > > by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

> > >

> > > malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

> > > body are

> > >

> > > pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> > > Skin> in a

> > >

> > > biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

> > >

> > > various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

> > > the skin.

> > >

> > > These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> > > beginning as

> > >

> > > what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

> > > eventually

> > >

> > > forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

> > >

> > > metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> > > parts of

> > >

> > > the body.

> > >

> > > it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

> > >

> > > pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

> > >

> > > coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

> > >

> > > tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> > > interpret

> > >

> > > as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

> > >

> > > T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

> > >

> > > 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

> > >

> > > discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

> > >

> > > many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

> > >

> > > (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> > > nails, shi

> > >

> > > life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> > > allergies:

> > >

> > > red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

> > >

> > > hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> > > goiter no

> > >

> > > longer present 12/08 exam.

> > >

> > > i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

> > > any

> > >

> > > references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

> > >

> > > primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> > > provide

> > >

> > > tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> > > material?

> > >

> > > i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

> > > playing a

> > >

> > > role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> > > appeared

> > >

> > > after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

> > > playing a

> > >

> > > role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

> > >

> > > appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

> > >

> > > appreciate whatever you can offer

> > >

> > > --

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Oriental Medicine

> > >

> > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> > >

> > > Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

> > >

> > > http://acukath.blogspot.com/

> > >

> > > Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

> > >

> > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> > >

> > > Available at Asheville Center for :

> > >

> > > www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

> > >

> > > Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> > >

> > > and from the following supply companies:

> > >

> > > Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> > >

> > > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

> > >

> > > Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> > >

> > >

> >

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

> > >

> > > Asheville Center For

> > >

> > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> > >

> > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> > >

> > > kbartlett

> > >

> > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I agree with Michael. As intriguing and challenging a

presentation this is, personal info seems a bit short and slim. Could be a

setup, could be anything. If in our profession where all the particulars of the

patients' experience are absolutely confidential, esp in my state, well, the

personal story seems lacking or vague. And the person must be present;, don't

step outside looking for purely diagnostic clues; where are the eyes,

and the voice? What is your real story miss?

 Sure, there are the stories of coutesans just displaying their wrist for pulse

diagnosis, without dialog with a lowly doctor. If you are not an absolute master

genius, which I wish I was, a little more personal info would help greatly. If

they want us on their side, be on our side, too. Thanks

l

 

--- On Wed, 6/3/09, mike Bowser

<naturaldoc1 wrote:

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

Chinese Traditional Medicine , alumni

Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 10:47 PM

 

 

I would be hesitant to treat one that will not

share with you her health history, mostly from a legal standpoint.  Please

consider this a red flag.

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

alumni

CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ; aculynn

acukath

Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

TCM -  TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

           

       

   

 

 

     

      a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin.  she did not

know

 

the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a copy of

 

the pathology report for me).  based on the presentation, i'm thnking it

 

might be

 

 

 

*Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

 

lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

 

which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of the immune

 

system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

 

non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which

are generally B-cell related), CTCL is

caused

 

by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

 

malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the body are

 

pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin> in a

 

biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

 

various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on the skin.

 

These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically beginning as

 

what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and eventually

 

forming plaques and

tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

 

metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other parts of

 

the body.

 

 

 

it began as an atopic rash.  she's had 2 legions biopsied.  what she's

 

pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

 

coloration.   there are a few on various places on her calves.  her skin

 

tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i interpret

 

as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

 

 

 

T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C.  P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

 

 

 

58yf,  has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

 

discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c

stress.

 

 

 

many other s/s,

including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

 

(onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair, nails, shi

 

life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet allergies:

 

red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

 

 

 

hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago.  tx with levoxil. titrated off med.  goiter no

 

longer present 12/08 exam.

 

 

 

i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find any

 

references to this condition.  i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx.  am

 

primarily looking for formula references.  wondering if anyone can provide

 

tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference material?

 

 

 

i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is playing a

 

role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that appeared

 

after dry

brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is playing a

 

role here).  the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme.  the rash

 

appeared 8/08 - 10/08.   the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

 

 

 

appreciate whatever you can offer

 

 

 

--

 

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS,  BA UCLA

 

Oriental Medicine

 

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

 

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

 

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

Flying Dragon Liniment:  Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

 

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

 

Available at Asheville Center for :

 

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

 

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville,

NC

 

 

 

and from the

following supply companies:

 

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

 

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

 

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

 

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

 

Asheville Center For

 

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

 

Asheville, NC  28801     828.258.2777

 

kbartlett

 

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

     

 

   

   

   

   

   

   

 

 

   

 

 

   

   

_______________

Windows Liveâ„¢ SkyDriveâ„¢: Get 25 GB of free online storage.

http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009

 

 

[Guest guest]

 I agree all the way with you Hugo. It's important to listen and empathize, and

if something needs an advocate, ok, go the mile. Still, present all the positive

energy that ourselves, our ancient and evolving profession, and other medical

systems want to achieve for a situation, a patient, ourselves.

 'Us and them' is a small dark corner, it can't be allowed to be anything more.

There is nothing negatively fixed, we have friends and allies everywhere.

Medicine will evolve, and integrate and penetrate past mysteries. People want to

care for each other, whatever path they go. Happy and hopefully healthy. Dreams

and visions still exist.

 If someone comes in my shop with complaints about modern society, healthcare,

economic barriers, there really is plenty to comiserate about, but, things tend

to go toward very tender and personal sorrows.

 Leading them out is the trick. Like telling a joke; e.g

 (please forgive this one)' " You know, when I die, I'd like to go peacefully

like my grandfather, in his sleep, not like the other screaming passengers in

his car. "

 (I just know I'm gonna get spanked for that one)

 

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote:

 

Hugo Ramiro <subincor

Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, June 4, 2009, 4:41 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HI all:

 

 

 

I feel it is very important to present oneself in clinic as a health

professional allied with all other health professionals and, further, one who

*can* function as an advocate, but only within an arena of respectful

professionalism.

 

In other words, it's not a problem to share complaints about experiences with

MDs and the medical system, but it is not ok to buy into an us and them

mentality.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Hugo

 

 

 

____________ _________ _________ __

 

Hugo Ramiro

 

http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

 

http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

 

 

 

____________ _________ _________ __

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com>

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

Thursday, 4 June, 2009 15:49:07

 

RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

 

 

Kath,

 

Learning to set a boundary (like permission to talk with other professionals) is

important and should not be overlooked just because a patient has some emotional

issues. The legal ones are the ones that come back to bite us in the

you-know-what and not our compassion to help. She should want you to be able to

discuss things with her MD, so that you could have as much info as possible to

treat her well. This looks more like she is attempting to limit your access to

this physician or what is in her file. I say that as she is willing to get a

copy of a lab report but refusing to sign the permission form and failure to get

you a copy of her complete file. Please think again about these irregularities

of behavior. Hind-sight is 20/20.

 

 

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

 

 

>

 

> acukath (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

> Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:28:51 -0400

 

> Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

>

 

> i appreciate your concern and the legal heads up. when i saw her tues.

 

> she said she would get the pathology report and tell the doc she wanted it

 

> for me (tcm tx). it sounds like the concern is coming from a fear of the

 

> doctor's reaction that she was pursuing other care outside his office. i

 

> see this, esp. with CA patients: patients honestly fear that requesting

 

> records and questioning the doc will ruffle the doc's feathers and

 

> compromise their care. as i mentioned, this one has significant anxiety

 

> issues, so this fear is magnified in her case. i'm trying to talk her down

 

> and get her to realize that the doc is a prof, but i find this neurosis to

 

> be a mentality that is difficult to change.

 

>

 

> k

 

>

 

> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Anne Biris <lotuskarma (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

 

>> And I am sorry to add that cancer has a bit of a legal mess/

 

>> ramifications. I would protect yourself in this case. Get a definite

 

>> diagnosis from a western MD before proceeding and a letter from his

 

>> office acknowledging that you are seeing his/her patient.

 

>>

 

>> Anne Biris

 

>>

 

>> On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote:

 

>>

 

>>>

 

>>>

 

>>> HI Mike, Kath (I think) and all:

 

>>>

 

>>> --Mike-

 

>>> I would be hesitant to treat one that will not share with you her

 

>>> health history, mostly from a legal standpoint. Please consider this a

 

>>> red flag.

 

>>> ---

 

>>>

 

>>> I second Mike's idea plus a slightly different spin too: Make sure

 

>>> she has a clear, sane, no-hidden-motivatio ns reason behind her

 

>>> decision, because she could be one of these patients with serious

 

>>> trust issues who will blockade you at every crucial step because

 

>>> they " need to know and understand (exactly) what is going on " . This

 

>>> could put you in jeopardy, especially if the patient manages to bind

 

>>> you up and make you paint yourself into a corner (i.e. because of

 

>>> the confusion you didn't refer out when you should have), and then

 

>>> *you* get saddled with the accusation of delaying / obstructing

 

>>> proper care.

 

>>>

 

>>> Hugo

 

>>>

 

>>> ____________ _________ _________ __

 

>>> Hugo Ramiro

 

>>> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

 

>>> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

 

>>>

 

>>> ____________ _________ _________ __

 

>>> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com>

 

>>> traditional_ chinese_medicine ;

 

>> alumni@pacificcolle ge.edu

 

>>> Wednesday, 3 June, 2009 22:47:40

 

>>> RE: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

>>>

 

>>> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

>>>

 

>>> alumni@pacificcolle ge.edu

 

>>> CC: traditional_ chinese_medicine ;

 

>>> aculynn (AT) optonline (DOT) net

 

>>> acukath (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

>>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

 

>>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

 

>>>

 

>>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

 

>>> know

 

>>>

 

>>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

 

>>> copy of

 

>>>

 

>>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

 

>>> it

 

>>>

 

>>> might be

 

>>>

 

>>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin' s

 

>>>

 

>>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Non-Hodgkin% 27s_lymphoma>,

 

>>>

 

>>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Cancer> of

 

>>> the immune

 

>>>

 

>>> system <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Immune_system>. Unlike most

 

>>>

 

>>> non-Hodgkin' s lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

 

>>> is caused

 

>>>

 

>>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ T_cell>. The

 

>>>

 

>>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Malignant> T cells in the

 

>>> body are

 

>>>

 

>>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/

 

>>> Skin> in a

 

>>>

 

>>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

 

>>>

 

>>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Lesion> to appear on

 

>>> the skin.

 

>>>

 

>>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

 

>>> beginning as

 

>>>

 

>>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Rash> and

 

>>> eventually

 

>>>

 

>>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tumor> before

 

>>>

 

>>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Metastasis> to other

 

>>> parts of

 

>>>

 

>>> the body.

 

>>>

 

>>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

 

>>>

 

>>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

 

>>>

 

>>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

 

>>>

 

>>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

 

>>> interpret

 

>>>

 

>>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

 

>>>

 

>>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

 

>>>

 

>>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

 

>>>

 

>>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

 

>>>

 

>>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

 

>>>

 

>>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

 

>>> nails, shi

 

>>>

 

>>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

 

>>> allergies:

 

>>>

 

>>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

 

>>>

 

>>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

 

>>> goiter no

 

>>>

 

>>> longer present 12/08 exam.

 

>>>

 

>>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

 

>>> any

 

>>>

 

>>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

 

>>>

 

>>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

 

>>> provide

 

>>>

 

>>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

 

>>> material?

 

>>>

 

>>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

 

>>> playing a

 

>>>

 

>>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

 

>>> appeared

 

>>>

 

>>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

 

>>> playing a

 

>>>

 

>>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

 

>>>

 

>>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

 

>>>

 

>>> appreciate whatever you can offer

 

>>>

 

>>> --

 

>>>

 

>>>

 

>>>

 

>>> Oriental Medicine

 

>>>

 

>>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

>>>

 

>>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

 

>>>

 

>>> http://acukath. blogspot. com/

 

>>>

 

>>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

 

>>>

 

>>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

 

>>>

 

>>> Available at Asheville Center for :

 

>>>

 

>>> www.FlyingDragonLin iment.com

 

>>>

 

>>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

>>>

 

>>> and from the following supply companies:

 

>>>

 

>>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

 

>>>

 

>>> https://www. kamwo.com/ shop/product. php?productid= 17442 & cat= 0 & page=1

 

>>>

 

>>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

 

>>>

 

>>>

 

>> http://www.goldenne edleonline. com/index. php?page= categories & category=

14 & vendor= & product= 5554 & pg=

 

>>>

 

>>> Asheville Center For

 

>>>

 

>>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

 

>>>

 

>>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

 

>>>

 

>>> kbartlett@Acupunctu reAsheville. com

 

>>>

 

>>> www.AcupunctureAshe ville.com

 

>>>

 

>>>

[Guest guest]

i hear everyone's warnings here, and do walk with caution.

 

i sent out this post to discuss the case.

 

does anyone have thoughts to share on the case. esp herbal strategies, or

recommendations of source material that i can reference?

 

kath

 

 

> >>> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> >>> aculynn

> >>> acukath

> >>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> >>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> >>>

> >>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

> >>> know

> >>>

> >>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

> >>> copy of

> >>>

> >>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

> >>> it

> >>>

> >>> might be

> >>>

> >>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

> >>>

> >>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

> >>>

> >>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

> >>> the immune

> >>>

> >>> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

> >>>

> >>> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

> >>> is caused

> >>>

> >>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

> >>>

> >>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

> >>> body are

> >>>

> >>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> >>> Skin> in a

> >>>

> >>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material, causing

> >>>

> >>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

> >>> the skin.

> >>>

> >>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> >>> beginning as

> >>>

> >>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

> >>> eventually

> >>>

> >>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor> before

> >>>

> >>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> >>> parts of

> >>>

> >>> the body.

> >>>

> >>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

> >>>

> >>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

> >>>

> >>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

> >>>

> >>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> >>> interpret

> >>>

> >>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

> >>>

> >>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

> >>>

> >>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

> >>>

> >>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

> >>>

> >>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis) rosacea

> >>>

> >>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> >>> nails, shi

> >>>

> >>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> >>> allergies:

> >>>

> >>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

> >>>

> >>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> >>> goiter no

> >>>

> >>> longer present 12/08 exam.

> >>>

> >>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

> >>> any

> >>>

> >>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

> >>>

> >>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> >>> provide

> >>>

> >>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> >>> material?

> >>>

> >>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

> >>> playing a

> >>>

> >>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> >>> appeared

> >>>

> >>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

> >>> playing a

> >>>

> >>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

> >>>

> >>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

> >>>

> >>> appreciate whatever you can offer

> >>>

> >>> --

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Oriental Medicine

> >>>

> >>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> >>>

> >>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

> >>>

> >>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

> >>>

> >>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

> >>>

> >>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> >>>

> >>> Available at Asheville Center for :

> >>>

> >>> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

> >>>

> >>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> >>>

> >>> and from the following supply companies:

> >>>

> >>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> >>>

> >>> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

> >>>

> >>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

> >>>

> >>> Asheville Center For

> >>>

> >>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> >>>

> >>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> >>>

> >>> kbartlett

> >>>

> >>> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

> >>>

> >>>

[Guest guest]

Hello, I'm a vet from Brasil and a treat lymphoma mainly in dogs with good

results. Skin lymphoma, in dogs and cats, is the most difficult lymphoma to

treat, but we ge good life quality in treating it.

My treatment depends on the stage of the disease. If it's in the beggining I

use a techinic proposed by Dr. Are Torensen where you use the Ke cycle to

cntrol the excess - in the case of lymphoma, I control the Triple burner/

Fire - with Water ( maily BL 66 and K 10 acupoints). Sometimes I use

needles , sometimes I use injecting blood in the acupoint.

Depending on the case I use.ponits to treat toxic heat and for general

tonifcation.

I also use dietary suplemnents mainly fruits and vegetables( especially

apple, banana, watermellom and tangerin) , and anti-oxidants foods

especially seeds.( soy bean, nuts ,...) ..

Talking about phytotherapy I uully use Ganoderma / reishi.

I have these papers talking about herbs in the tratment of leukemia /

lymphoma

*- Tanshinone IIA, an ingredient of Salvia miltiorrhiza BUNGE, induces

apoptosis in human leukemia cell lines through the activation of caspase-3*

*

 

- Cytotoxicity and antitumoral activity of dichloromethane extract and its

fractions from Pothomorphe umbellata

 

- The use of Punica Granatum in cancer - but this is in Portuguese

 

If you want I can send it to you.

 

Regards

 

Eduardo Lobo

 

DVM - Brasil*

 

2009/6/4 <acukath

 

> i hear everyone's warnings here, and do walk with caution.

>

> i sent out this post to discuss the case.r

>

> does anyone have thoughts to share on the case. esp herbal strategies, or

> recommendations of source material that i can reference?

>

> kath

>

>

> > >>> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> > >>> aculynn

> > >>> acukath

> > >>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> > >>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> > >>>

> > >>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

> > >>> know

> > >>>

> > >>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

> > >>> copy of

> > >>>

> > >>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

> > >>> it

> > >>>

> > >>> might be

> > >>>

> > >>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

> > >>>

> > >>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

> > >>>

> > >>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

> > >>> the immune

> > >>>

> > >>> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

> > >>>

> > >>> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

> > >>> is caused

> > >>>

> > >>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

> > >>>

> > >>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

> > >>> body are

> > >>>

> > >>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> > >>> Skin> in a

> > >>>

> > >>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material,

> causing

> > >>>

> > >>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

> > >>> the skin.

> > >>>

> > >>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> > >>> beginning as

> > >>>

> > >>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

> > >>> eventually

> > >>>

> > >>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor>

> before

> > >>>

> > >>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> > >>> parts of

> > >>>

> > >>> the body.

> > >>>

> > >>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

> > >>>

> > >>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

> > >>>

> > >>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

> > >>>

> > >>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> > >>> interpret

> > >>>

> > >>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

> > >>>

> > >>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

> > >>>

> > >>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

> > >>>

> > >>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

> > >>>

> > >>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis)

> rosacea

> > >>>

> > >>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> > >>> nails, shi

> > >>>

> > >>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> > >>> allergies:

> > >>>

> > >>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

> > >>>

> > >>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> > >>> goiter no

> > >>>

> > >>> longer present 12/08 exam.

> > >>>

> > >>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

> > >>> any

> > >>>

> > >>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

> > >>>

> > >>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> > >>> provide

> > >>>

> > >>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> > >>> material?

> > >>>

> > >>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

> > >>> playing a

> > >>>

> > >>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> > >>> appeared

> > >>>

> > >>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

> > >>> playing a

> > >>>

> > >>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

> > >>>

> > >>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

> > >>>

> > >>> appreciate whatever you can offer

> > >>>

> > >>> --

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Oriental Medicine

> > >>>

> > >>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> > >>>

> > >>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

> > >>>

> > >>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

> > >>>

> > >>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

> > >>>

> > >>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> > >>>

> > >>> Available at Asheville Center for :

> > >>>

> > >>> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com <http://www.flyingdragonliniment.com/>

> > >>>

> > >>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> > >>>

> > >>> and from the following supply companies:

> > >>>

> > >>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> > >>>

> > >>> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

> > >>>

> > >>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>

> >

>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

> > >>>

> > >>> Asheville Center For

> > >>>

> > >>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> > >>>

> > >>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> > >>>

> > >>> kbartlett

> > >>>

> > >>> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>

> > >>>

> > >>>

[Guest guest]

Eduardo Lobo: I would be very interested in your protocols to treat lymphoma. I

also have studied with Dr. Are Thorensen

 

and I understand the concepts of his use of the Ko Cycle in selecting points. do

you ever seen lymphom in dogs that are not administered vaccines? If so, have

they been appied with any of the anti parasitics like Frontline? The only cancer

cases we have are in vaccinated or chemically appointed animals. Lymphoma is

particuallarily linked to the chronic antigenic stimulation. In any regards I

would be very interested in any formulas or protocols you have found

successful.......we sure don't have that here in the US.

 

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

> Chinese Medicine

> eduardolobo.vet

> Thu, 4 Jun 2009 21:52:03 -0300

> Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>

> Hello, I'm a vet from Brasil and a treat lymphoma mainly in dogs with good

> results. Skin lymphoma, in dogs and cats, is the most difficult lymphoma to

> treat, but we ge good life quality in treating it.

> My treatment depends on the stage of the disease. If it's in the beggining I

> use a techinic proposed by Dr. Are Torensen where you use the Ke cycle to

> cntrol the excess - in the case of lymphoma, I control the Triple burner/

> Fire - with Water ( maily BL 66 and K 10 acupoints). Sometimes I use

> needles , sometimes I use injecting blood in the acupoint.

> Depending on the case I use.ponits to treat toxic heat and for general

> tonifcation.

> I also use dietary suplemnents mainly fruits and vegetables( especially

> apple, banana, watermellom and tangerin) , and anti-oxidants foods

> especially seeds.( soy bean, nuts ,...) ..

> Talking about phytotherapy I uully use Ganoderma / reishi.

> I have these papers talking about herbs in the tratment of leukemia /

> lymphoma

> *- Tanshinone IIA, an ingredient of Salvia miltiorrhiza BUNGE, induces

> apoptosis in human leukemia cell lines through the activation of caspase-3*

> *

>

> - Cytotoxicity and antitumoral activity of dichloromethane extract and its

> fractions from Pothomorphe umbellata

>

> - The use of Punica Granatum in cancer - but this is in Portuguese

>

> If you want I can send it to you.

>

> Regards

>

> Eduardo Lobo

>

> DVM - Brasil*

>

> 2009/6/4 <acukath

>

> > i hear everyone's warnings here, and do walk with caution.

> >

> > i sent out this post to discuss the case.r

> >

> > does anyone have thoughts to share on the case. esp herbal strategies, or

> > recommendations of source material that i can reference?

> >

> > kath

> >

> >

> > > >>> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> > > >>> aculynn

> > > >>> acukath

> > > >>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> > > >>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did not

> > > >>> know

> > > >>>

> > > >>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get a

> > > >>> copy of

> > > >>>

> > > >>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm thnking

> > > >>> it

> > > >>>

> > > >>> might be

> > > >>>

> > > >>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

> > > >>>

> > > >>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer> of

> > > >>> the immune

> > > >>>

> > > >>> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

> > > >>>

> > > >>> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related), CTCL

> > > >>> is caused

> > > >>>

> > > >>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>. The

> > > >>>

> > > >>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in the

> > > >>> body are

> > > >>>

> > > >>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> > > >>> Skin> in a

> > > >>>

> > > >>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material,

> > causing

> > > >>>

> > > >>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear on

> > > >>> the skin.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> > > >>> beginning as

> > > >>>

> > > >>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash> and

> > > >>> eventually

> > > >>>

> > > >>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor>

> > before

> > > >>>

> > > >>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> > > >>> parts of

> > > >>>

> > > >>> the body.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what she's

> > > >>>

> > > >>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

> > > >>>

> > > >>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her skin

> > > >>>

> > > >>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> > > >>> interpret

> > > >>>

> > > >>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg' (her

> > > >>>

> > > >>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis)

> > rosacea

> > > >>>

> > > >>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> > > >>> nails, shi

> > > >>>

> > > >>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> > > >>> allergies:

> > > >>>

> > > >>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps, bees).

> > > >>>

> > > >>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> > > >>> goiter no

> > > >>>

> > > >>> longer present 12/08 exam.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot find

> > > >>> any

> > > >>>

> > > >>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx. am

> > > >>>

> > > >>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> > > >>> provide

> > > >>>

> > > >>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> > > >>> material?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W is

> > > >>> playing a

> > > >>>

> > > >>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> > > >>> appeared

> > > >>>

> > > >>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing is

> > > >>> playing a

> > > >>>

> > > >>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the rash

> > > >>>

> > > >>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a biopsy.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> appreciate whatever you can offer

> > > >>>

> > > >>> --

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Oriental Medicine

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

> > > >>>

> > > >>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Available at Asheville Center for :

> > > >>>

> > > >>> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com <http://www.flyingdragonliniment.com/>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> > > >>>

> > > >>> and from the following supply companies:

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> > > >>>

> > > >>> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>

> > >

> >

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Asheville Center For

> > > >>>

> > > >>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> > > >>>

> > > >>> kbartlett

> > > >>>

> > > >>> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com <http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for the late answer, working and studynig a lot.

I`ve been seeing cancer patients for the last 25 years in my private

practice. When I started working with TCVM I liked a lot Dr. Torensen's

technic to treat cancer but I saw that it was very good in the begging of

the problem and that, in the really complicated cases, we had other

techinics and problems to face and treat . In my oppinion when we have the

paraneoplasic syndromes we have to treat the affected organ in a more

profund way. For this I start to treat this organ tonifing it with

acupunture and dietetics suplements . With the continuous course of the

disease we have the metastatic problems. At this time I think we have to

tonify the organ and take care of the triple burner in order to stop the

metastasis. In the final stage we have the wei syndrome and needs to treat

it.

In my oppinion, in the case of lymphoma, we have to control the fire phase,

especilly the triple burner, we have to dispel the toxic heat and move the

blood . I use acupuncture and dietary therapy with fruits, vegetables and

kidney tonics ( mainly seeds). I also add some ocidental medicines, like A

and E vitamins, fish oil , sometimes COX inhibitors and other antioxidants

medicines ( quercitin, CoQ, etc...).

I didn't have notice any relations with chemicals and vacines in the cases,

but I didn't look for it. I will start to pay atttention.

The papres I have about lymphoma are talking about the use of herbs in the

treatment of it .

Again sorry for my late answer . I hope we can talk more about these

instersting matter.

Regards

Eduardo

 

2009/6/7 Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

 

>

> Eduardo Lobo: I would be very interested in your protocols to treat

> lymphoma. I also have studied with Dr. Are Thorensen

>

> and I understand the concepts of his use of the Ko Cycle in selecting

> points. do you ever seen lymphom in dogs that are not administered vaccines?

> If so, have they been appied with any of the anti parasitics like Frontline?

> The only cancer cases we have are in vaccinated or chemically appointed

> animals. Lymphoma is particuallarily linked to the chronic antigenic

> stimulation. In any regards I would be very interested in any formulas or

> protocols you have found successful.......we sure don't have that here in

> the US.

>

> Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

>

>

>

> > Chinese Medicine

> > eduardolobo.vet

> > Thu, 4 Jun 2009 21:52:03 -0300

> > Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> >

> > Hello, I'm a vet from Brasil and a treat lymphoma mainly in dogs with

> good

> > results. Skin lymphoma, in dogs and cats, is the most difficult lymphoma

> to

> > treat, but we ge good life quality in treating it.

> > My treatment depends on the stage of the disease. If it's in the

> beggining I

> > use a techinic proposed by Dr. Are Torensen where you use the Ke cycle to

> > cntrol the excess - in the case of lymphoma, I control the Triple burner/

> > Fire - with Water ( maily BL 66 and K 10 acupoints). Sometimes I use

> > needles , sometimes I use injecting blood in the acupoint.

> > Depending on the case I use.ponits to treat toxic heat and for general

> > tonifcation.

> > I also use dietary suplemnents mainly fruits and vegetables( especially

> > apple, banana, watermellom and tangerin) , and anti-oxidants foods

> > especially seeds.( soy bean, nuts ,...) ..

> > Talking about phytotherapy I uully use Ganoderma / reishi.

> > I have these papers talking about herbs in the tratment of leukemia /

> > lymphoma

> > *- Tanshinone IIA, an ingredient of Salvia miltiorrhiza BUNGE, induces

> > apoptosis in human leukemia cell lines through the activation of

> caspase-3*

> > *

> >

> > - Cytotoxicity and antitumoral activity of dichloromethane extract and

> its

> > fractions from Pothomorphe umbellata

> >

> > - The use of Punica Granatum in cancer - but this is in Portuguese

> >

> > If you want I can send it to you.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Eduardo Lobo

> >

> > DVM - Brasil*

> >

> > 2009/6/4 <acukath

> >

> > > i hear everyone's warnings here, and do walk with caution.

> > >

> > > i sent out this post to discuss the case.r

> > >

> > > does anyone have thoughts to share on the case. esp herbal strategies,

> or

> > > recommendations of source material that i can reference?

> > >

> > > kath

> > >

> > >

> > > > >>> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> > > > >>> aculynn

> > > > >>> acukath

> > > > >>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> > > > >>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did

> not

> > > > >>> know

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get

> a

> > > > >>> copy of

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm

> thnking

> > > > >>> it

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> might be

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer>

> of

> > > > >>> the immune

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related),

> CTCL

> > > > >>> is caused

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>.

> The

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in

> the

> > > > >>> body are

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> > > > >>> Skin> in a

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material,

> > > causing

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear

> on

> > > > >>> the skin.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> > > > >>> beginning as

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash>

> and

> > > > >>> eventually

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor>

> > > before

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> > > > >>> parts of

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> the body.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what

> she's

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her

> skin

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> > > > >>> interpret

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg'

> (her

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis)

> > > rosacea

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> > > > >>> nails, shi

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> > > > >>> allergies:

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps,

> bees).

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> > > > >>> goiter no

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> longer present 12/08 exam.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot

> find

> > > > >>> any

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx.

> am

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> > > > >>> provide

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> > > > >>> material?

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W

> is

> > > > >>> playing a

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> > > > >>> appeared

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing

> is

> > > > >>> playing a

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the

> rash

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a

> biopsy.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> appreciate whatever you can offer

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> --

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Oriental Medicine

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living &

> Spirituality:

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles &

> joints

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Available at Asheville Center for :

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com<http://www.flyingdragonliniment.com/><

> http://www.flyingdragonliniment.com/>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> and from the following supply companies:

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>

> > > >

> > >

>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Asheville Center For

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> kbartlett

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com<http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/><

> http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your answer, this is utterly a maze of tracing the inflamation

from the root.

I have a very good scientific paper which traces the route of chronic antigenic

stimulation of the B cells

 

to the onset of lymphoma....and what better inflamation maker than the year

after year after year overadministration of illogical vaccinations that they

administer to animals. In Brazil, I am sure they are rabies crazy thinking they

have to administer multiple vaccines when the proof was established as early as

1949 that only one vaccine against rabies was necessary to convey immunity for

life of the dog against the rabies virus.....so long as the immune system was

mature when vaccine was administered.The problem is that the vaccines are not

safe they are quite dangerous and the effect to the immune system one of health

deconstruction not preventative health care maintenance. If you would like i

will send the chronic antigenic stimulus of b cells to lymphoma paper to

you.........begs the question why isn't this recognized in human medicine. Begs

the question also of your results. I found that in these situations I could help

my patients but literraly i would have to administer care daily.....since the

underlying cause of all of this inflamation had been via the injections of

poison (vaccines) done in the first place. the most unhealthy individuals are

those of the western countries that enjoy a rabid vaccinologists state of

practice.

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

> Chinese Medicine

> eduardolobo.vet

> Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:35:49 -0300

> Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

>

> Sorry for the late answer, working and studynig a lot.

> I`ve been seeing cancer patients for the last 25 years in my private

> practice. When I started working with TCVM I liked a lot Dr. Torensen's

> technic to treat cancer but I saw that it was very good in the begging of

> the problem and that, in the really complicated cases, we had other

> techinics and problems to face and treat . In my oppinion when we have the

> paraneoplasic syndromes we have to treat the affected organ in a more

> profund way. For this I start to treat this organ tonifing it with

> acupunture and dietetics suplements . With the continuous course of the

> disease we have the metastatic problems. At this time I think we have to

> tonify the organ and take care of the triple burner in order to stop the

> metastasis. In the final stage we have the wei syndrome and needs to treat

> it.

> In my oppinion, in the case of lymphoma, we have to control the fire phase,

> especilly the triple burner, we have to dispel the toxic heat and move the

> blood . I use acupuncture and dietary therapy with fruits, vegetables and

> kidney tonics ( mainly seeds). I also add some ocidental medicines, like A

> and E vitamins, fish oil , sometimes COX inhibitors and other antioxidants

> medicines ( quercitin, CoQ, etc...).

> I didn't have notice any relations with chemicals and vacines in the cases,

> but I didn't look for it. I will start to pay atttention.

> The papres I have about lymphoma are talking about the use of herbs in the

> treatment of it .

> Again sorry for my late answer . I hope we can talk more about these

> instersting matter.

> Regards

> Eduardo

>

> 2009/6/7 Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

>

> >

> > Eduardo Lobo: I would be very interested in your protocols to treat

> > lymphoma. I also have studied with Dr. Are Thorensen

> >

> > and I understand the concepts of his use of the Ko Cycle in selecting

> > points. do you ever seen lymphom in dogs that are not administered vaccines?

> > If so, have they been appied with any of the anti parasitics like Frontline?

> > The only cancer cases we have are in vaccinated or chemically appointed

> > animals. Lymphoma is particuallarily linked to the chronic antigenic

> > stimulation. In any regards I would be very interested in any formulas or

> > protocols you have found successful.......we sure don't have that here in

> > the US.

> >

> > Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

> >

> >

> >

> > > Chinese Medicine

> > > eduardolobo.vet

> > > Thu, 4 Jun 2009 21:52:03 -0300

> > > Re: TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> > >

> > > Hello, I'm a vet from Brasil and a treat lymphoma mainly in dogs with

> > good

> > > results. Skin lymphoma, in dogs and cats, is the most difficult lymphoma

> > to

> > > treat, but we ge good life quality in treating it.

> > > My treatment depends on the stage of the disease. If it's in the

> > beggining I

> > > use a techinic proposed by Dr. Are Torensen where you use the Ke cycle to

> > > cntrol the excess - in the case of lymphoma, I control the Triple burner/

> > > Fire - with Water ( maily BL 66 and K 10 acupoints). Sometimes I use

> > > needles , sometimes I use injecting blood in the acupoint.

> > > Depending on the case I use.ponits to treat toxic heat and for general

> > > tonifcation.

> > > I also use dietary suplemnents mainly fruits and vegetables( especially

> > > apple, banana, watermellom and tangerin) , and anti-oxidants foods

> > > especially seeds.( soy bean, nuts ,...) ..

> > > Talking about phytotherapy I uully use Ganoderma / reishi.

> > > I have these papers talking about herbs in the tratment of leukemia /

> > > lymphoma

> > > *- Tanshinone IIA, an ingredient of Salvia miltiorrhiza BUNGE, induces

> > > apoptosis in human leukemia cell lines through the activation of

> > caspase-3*

> > > *

> > >

> > > - Cytotoxicity and antitumoral activity of dichloromethane extract and

> > its

> > > fractions from Pothomorphe umbellata

> > >

> > > - The use of Punica Granatum in cancer - but this is in Portuguese

> > >

> > > If you want I can send it to you.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Eduardo Lobo

> > >

> > > DVM - Brasil*

> > >

> > > 2009/6/4 <acukath

> > >

> > > > i hear everyone's warnings here, and do walk with caution.

> > > >

> > > > i sent out this post to discuss the case.r

> > > >

> > > > does anyone have thoughts to share on the case. esp herbal strategies,

> > or

> > > > recommendations of source material that i can reference?

> > > >

> > > > kath

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >>> CC: Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

> > > > > >>> aculynn

> > > > > >>> acukath

> > > > > >>> Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:08:57 -0400

> > > > > >>> TCM tx strategies: cutaneoous lymphoma?

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> a new patient is presenting with a lymphoma of the skin. she did

> > not

> > > > > >>> know

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> the name (will not sign a records release, but said she would get

> > a

> > > > > >>> copy of

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> the pathology report for me). based on the presentation, i'm

> > thnking

> > > > > >>> it

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> might be

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> *Cutaneous T cell lymphoma (CTCL)* is a class of non-Hodgkin's

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> lymphoma<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hodgkin%27s_lymphoma>,

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> which is a type of cancer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer>

> > of

> > > > > >>> the immune

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>. Unlike most

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (which are generally B-cell related),

> > CTCL

> > > > > >>> is caused

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> by a mutation of T cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_cell>.

> > The

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> malignant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant> T cells in

> > the

> > > > > >>> body are

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> pushed to the surface of the skin <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

> > > > > >>> Skin> in a

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> biological process used to rid the body of offending material,

> > > > causing

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> various lesions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesion> to appear

> > on

> > > > > >>> the skin.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> These lesions change shape as the disease progresses, typically

> > > > > >>> beginning as

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> what appears to be a rash <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash>

> > and

> > > > > >>> eventually

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> forming plaques and tumors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor>

> > > > before

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> metastasizing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastasis> to other

> > > > > >>> parts of

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> the body.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> it began as an atopic rash. she's had 2 legions biopsied. what

> > she's

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> pointing out as the legions are subtle papules, maybe 5mm, pale

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> coloration. there are a few on various places on her calves. her

> > skin

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> tone is pale with a multitude of pale tan macules, 1-2cm which i

> > > > > >>> interpret

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> as qi/xue stag in the cutaneous regions.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> T: dusky, puffy, red tip, wh C. P xu, slow, smooth with sl edge.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> 58yf, has a great deal of yin xu anxiety presenting as 'shi nrg'

> > (her

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> discription) and talkative, insomnia assoc c stress.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> many other s/s, including chronic bi (back, joints, arthritis)

> > > > rosacea

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> (onset 1995), liver qi stag/xue xu (irrit, PPQi, dry skin, hair,

> > > > > >>> nails, shi

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> life stress), hairloss, fatigue, atopic LU sx, esp 5yr onset pet

> > > > > >>> allergies:

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> red, itchy, watery eyes, sneezing (also dust, molds, wasps,

> > bees).

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> hist thyroid goiter 6 yr ago. tx with levoxil. titrated off med.

> > > > > >>> goiter no

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> longer present 12/08 exam.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> i have several derm books and the mgmt of CA in TCM, but cannot

> > find

> > > > > >>> any

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> references to this condition. i'm giving an indiv. gran herb rx.

> > am

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> primarily looking for formula references. wondering if anyone can

> > > > > >>> provide

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> tx suggestions on this, esp herb, or direct me to tcm reference

> > > > > >>> material?

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> i'm thinking in addtion to liver qi stag, qi/xue/yin xu, that W

> > is

> > > > > >>> playing a

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> role, as the sx appeared upon onset of an itchy, atopic rash that

> > > > > >>> appeared

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> after dry brushing her skin (uncertain whether the dry brushing

> > is

> > > > > >>> playing a

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> role here). the rash imp with the use of a steroid creme. the

> > rash

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> appeared 8/08 - 10/08. the lymphoma was dx 2 weeks ago with a

> > biopsy.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> appreciate whatever you can offer

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> --

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Oriental Medicine

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living &

> > Spirituality:

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles &

> > joints

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Available at Asheville Center for :

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com<http://www.flyingdragonliniment.com/><

> > http://www.flyingdragonliniment.com/>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> and from the following supply companies:

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

> > https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > >

> >

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Asheville Center For

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> kbartlett

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com<http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/><

> > http://www.acupunctureasheville.com/>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>