Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Dear Kokko, You confirm what I have sensed. It's very strange, here in LA, we have a very large Korean community, perhaps one of the largest outside of Korea, it would seem to me, the largest Asian group here, more than the Chinese as well. Yet there is an insularity which I, as an outsider feel. Samra has given we the opportunity to be exposed to Korean medicine, really for the first time. Though I attended Dongguk Royal University (a Korean school) for my master's program, we in the English program were made to feel like we were neglected step-children, sort of a necessary formality to receive accreditation. The quality of my education was, for the most part, very mediocre. The school primarily catered to Koreans, but we had next to nothing to do with them. I remember once, in my first year, asking if there were any exchange programs to study Korean medicine in Korea. I was answered tersely--no, as if to suggest, " and don't even bother asking again! " Here at Samra, though, the 6 Korean physicians in the Specialty pain clinic are encouraged to speak about their methodologies and actively do speak to the DAOM residents. They are very knowledgeable and though I don't always agree with their approaches, I love the openness. The problem I have with them, BTW, is that, as a pain clinic, they use their approaches (such as the kinetic acupuncture) to primarily treat symptoms, rather than root causes. One of the problems, of course, is that the clinic is very busy: It opened, just this last February, and they see well over 50 patients a day, and the number is growing. (And even though, unfortunately, most are Korean, the English speaking Master's interns and the physicians to address our questions). The approach really marries, as you imply, much more than do the Chinese, Oriental medical philosophy and practice, with Western physical medicine. For example, they do alot of trigger point needling, using thick, deep needles, which this insert, stimulate, and then immediately take out, in order to relax spasmed muscles. But as I mentioned, the results are very impressive. The new clinical residency is taking off as well: In addition to the DAOM program, they are beginning a new full time PAID residency program as well. In the 2 year program, residents are paid $3000 per month, which isn't bad at all, though they work hard and long hours, like 60 hours per week, plus being required to attend the didactic portion of the DAOM on Fridays. But not only that, then after they complete the two years, they are guaranteed a six figure salary either working here or in one of a few satellite clinics they envision opening. The school and the clinic administration have a vision, and I like it! --- On Mon, 5/4/09, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel Chinese Medicine Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:02 AM Yehuda, Yes.. there are great things coming out of Korea right now. There's a lot of dedicated study (10+ years of schooling) where students at Kyung Hee University study harder than MD students. From the Kyung Hee University blog, the students study six days / week and learn/study over 12 hours/ day. Only those with the highest high-school completion exams can get into Kyung Hee. It's harder than Seoul University, which in itself is harder to get into than Harvard. So, only the cream of the crop of intellectuals can go to that school. There's also a lot of money invested in Asian medicine invested in Korea. If you graduate from Kyung Hee for instance, I've heard that you can make twice as much money as an MD. So, ever since this last decade, many families want their children to become Asian medicine doctors When they're in school, they learn both allopathic medicine as well as traditional Korean/ Chinese medicine and the schools have the money to get the latest medical technology as well. I haven't visited Kyung-Hee, but a couple friends have. You can do observation rounds. It costs about $700/ week to watch. Their hard work is also an inspiration. It makes me want to work harder, knowing that our medicine is such a mystery that requires mastery. I know you feel the same way. Btw, about the warm waterfall feeling in the heel, a friend made a joke and called it, " running piglet Qi of the heel " or we can just call it.. " running piglet heel " K On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, >wrote: > > > Hi Kokko, > > Here's the clinic site: http://www.samracli nic.com. The Samra > administration is essentially all Korean, and from what I understand, that's > where the kinetic acupuncture comes from. (BTW, in the DAOM program the > professors come from diverse backgrounds- -eg. Beijing, Vietnam, and of > course, Seoul.) From what I have read and videos I've seen, they have had > enormous success with musculo-skeletal problems using it. (if I remember > correctly, you're Korean, right? If so, your might want to see the Samra > site in Korean, find out the original term that they translated as " kinetic > acupuncture " and do a google search on in there.) If the shooting pain > starts at around UB58, I think I would place needles at UB63, the Xi-cleft > point of the UB, as well as Lv 2 and Lv3, to unblock the Qi. There's much > more to it then just placing needles and having the patient move or walk. > For example, another thing they do, is place needles on Ah Shi points, > and immediately take them out, to " wake up " and relax muscles, and then go > on to other points, the idea being to release one layer to get to the next. > It's interesting and different, I like it, and I'm learning alot. > > Getting back to your patient, like I said, I would definitely work first > and strengthening the Spleen, and then, slowly and carefully nourish the > blood--using herbs and of course acupuncture, and try to treat according to > the four weeks of her menstrual cycle. > > All the best, > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > wrote: > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > Sunday, May 3, 2009, 6:52 AM > > > Yehuda, > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > Actually, she usually does have short (3 days) and scanty periods (blood > xu) > > and there is underlying SP Qi xu as well (fatigue) > So, that makes sense. This feeling began after her period, where Qi and > Blood is low. > The occurrence was about 1 time/ day for a week. > Now, she is ovulating and that warm water-fall sensation in her heel is > less > frequent. > > Since she's a dancer, she's stomping on her heel continuously (3 x/ week), > but it's only the right heel which is feeling this sensation. > It begins around UB 58 and radiates to the inside of the heel > (around the extra point for the brain and insomnia - center of the heel). > She's sleeping fine and has no other complaints actually. > > The " Kinetic acupuncture " technique sounds interesting. Who was it > developed by? > Tung style acupuncture has this element in it as well for shoulder, neck, > back and foot pains, > but I've never heard of walking around with LV 2 or 3 inside the foot ! > > K > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:53 AM, > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > I have had a couple of similar patients, females, who were athletes. My > > read on cases like these is blood vacuity, precipitating qi and blood > > stagnation, in the area of their weakest anatomical link, meaning that > > which endures the most stimulation, and or trauma- the feet. A give away > in > > my patients was very short and light menstrual periods. Initially, when I > > gave herbs to tonify yin and blood, I found that there was also an > > underlying Spleen Qi vacuity as well, as they each had loose bowel > > movements. So I used herbs to strengthen the spleen and dry dampness > (BTW, > > they each drank more water than was good for them, exacerbating the > > problem), along with Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan to treat the wind-damp and > nourish > > the blood in the lower extemities. One other thing I have did was a > > therapeutic application of acupuncture that I learned in the DAOM program > I > > attend at Samra, what they call " Kinetic Acupuncture " . Palpate the > > channels, to > > determine where there might be stagnation or pain, needle one or two > points > > on the foot of that channel, eg. if there is tenderness along the liver > > channel, you might consider needling Lv2 & Lv3, and then have the patient > > walk with the needle or needles in the foot, for 5-10 minutes up and down > > the hall of your office. Though painful at first, after a couple of > minutes > > the pain should be gone, and when you take the needle out so should be > the > > shooting sensation. The idea behind it is that by doing this, you are > > mechanically moving the qi and decongesting the channel. I have seen some > > pretty amazing results. > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% 40gmail. > com>> > > wrote: > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > warm feeling shooting to the heel > > <Traditional_ > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > Friday, May 1, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a 33 yr old dancer patient who has a sudden warm waterfall feeling > > of > > " energy " shooting down to her heel, > > which comes on intermittently sitting or standing, only in this past > week. > > The feeling is not painful, nor numb, just strange. > > > > Otherwise, no other problems or pain. > > I thought maybe a nerve at first.. L5 / S1, but no hua tuo jia ji reflex, > > no lower back pain, no hx of sciatica or piriformis sx. > > > > Her tongue is pale with a thin white coat. > > Her pulse is string-taut in the left guan and thready in all other > > positions. > > > > Any idea what this is from a TCM and Biomed diagnosis? > > I remember hearing this as some sort of esoteric TCM diagnosis, but don't > > remember. > > > > Thanks. > > > > K > > > > -- > > > > Turtle Island Integrative Health > > www.turtleclinic. com > > > > TCM Review director > > CA State Board Prep Courses > > www.tcmreview. com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Yehuda, Your last paragraph is revolutionary. That's exactly what we need, residency programs so that we can get clinical experience like they get in China and Korea. Deke Kendall compared the hours of training between BA programs in China and MA programs in the U.S. In China, they get twice as many clinical hours of training than U.S. programs. On top of that, they see exponentially more patients in those hours. $3000/ month is not bad for a residency, considering that there's no overhead to pay for and a guaranteed six digit position in a couple years. Most people are breaking their backs trying to get patients into the door. Since we have to be business people first and medical practitioners second, half of our time is spent running a small business, retracting from developing our clinical skills. I have seen many fine practitioners not work because they don't do marketing and after a few years, one loses those " chops " . It's a shame in our profession. In LA, like you said, there's a huge, insular Korean community, which works to your advantage if you can tap into that population. Koreans love acupuncture and herbal medicine. There were 3 top-grossing TV series about famous traditional doctors in the last decade. One was about the most famous Korean doctor in history... Ho Jun, who was depicted as a type of Confucian saint in the series, sacrificing his life for his patients. Another one was about Lee Jae-Ma, the founder of Sa-sang, the 4 constitution school. Although he was probably a wimpy guy in real life, he was cast as a martial arts master, because of course, it made the story more fun. The cool thing was that you actually learned something about medicine from watching the series. The third one broke all the records in Asia... Dae Jang-Geum, about a woman from humble beginnings who rose to become the King's personal chef first and then the King's personal physician. It was done really well from a cinematic pov, drawing you into the characters' complex archetypes and changes. So, in the last decade, there's been a huge explosion of traditional medicine in Korea, which has concreted with a Confucian work ethic and the guilt of not making your family and community happy if you don't succeed. My family thought that traditional medicine was low-class, until these TV dramas completely shifted the collective consciousness within this last decade. After that, the whole country was behind it. Korea, as a whole, has a very conservative element that loves tradition and order. Much of that comes from confucianism as well as a sense of suffering and survival from the time of the annex by Japan in the 1890s, WW2, the Korean War and the constant struggle for re-unification. In these ways, the character of the Korean people is similar to many Jewish people that I know. About treating the root, as well as the branch. Two of the major schools within TKM (Traditional Korean Medicine) have that as their starting point: Sa-am (4 needle technique), developed by a monk and based on 5 phasic distal needling and Sa-sang, based on the patient's innate constitutional characteristics, akin to dosha therapy in Ayurveda. Since Korea has been China's younger brother for at least the last 2200 years, there has been constant trade of ideas and human resources creating an expansive body of knowledge which was fortunately not destroyed by the Cultural Revolution in China. In essence, Korea has become a time-capsule that is now being opened to the world. Similar to the islands of Taiwan and Japan, the major stumbling block or boon as one can see it, has been the influx of capitalism and cultural imperialism, which has changed the ingredients, but not the flavor of the medicine. Best to you, K On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:10 AM, wrote: > > > Dear Kokko, > > You confirm what I have sensed. It's very strange, here in LA, we have a > very large Korean community, perhaps one of the largest outside of Korea, it > would seem to me, the largest Asian group here, more than the Chinese as > well. Yet there is an insularity which I, as an outsider feel. Samra has > given we the opportunity to be exposed to Korean medicine, really for the > first time. Though I attended Dongguk Royal University (a Korean school) > for my master's program, we in the English program were made to feel like we > were neglected step-children, sort of a necessary formality to receive > accreditation. The quality of my education was, for the most part, very > mediocre. The school primarily catered to Koreans, but we had next to > nothing to do with them. I remember once, in my first year, asking if there > were any exchange programs to study Korean medicine in Korea. I was > answered tersely--no, as if to suggest, " and don't even bother asking > again! " Here at Samra, though, the 6 Korean physicians in the Specialty > pain clinic are encouraged to speak about their methodologies and actively > do speak to the DAOM residents. They are very knowledgeable and though I > don't always agree with their approaches, I love the openness. > The problem I have with them, BTW, is that, as a pain clinic, they use > their approaches (such as the kinetic acupuncture) to primarily > treat symptoms, rather than root causes. One of the problems, of course, is > that the clinic is very busy: It opened, just this last February, and they > see well over 50 patients a day, and the number is growing. (And even > though, unfortunately, most are Korean, the English speaking Master's > interns and the physicians to address our questions). The approach really > marries, as you imply, much more than do the Chinese, Oriental medical > philosophy and practice, with Western physical medicine. For example, they > do alot of trigger point needling, using thick, deep needles, which this > insert, stimulate, and then immediately take out, in order to relax spasmed > muscles. But as I mentioned, the results are very impressive. The new > clinical residency is taking off as well: In addition to the > DAOM program, they are beginning a new full time PAID residency program as > well. In the 2 year program, residents are paid $3000 per month, which > isn't bad at all, though they work hard and long hours, like 60 hours per > week, plus being required to attend the didactic portion of the DAOM on > Fridays. But not only that, then after they complete the two years, they > are guaranteed a six figure salary either working here or in one of a few > satellite clinics they envision opening. The school and the clinic > administration have a vision, and I like it! > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:02 AM > > Yehuda, > Yes.. there are great things coming out of Korea right now. There's a lot > of dedicated study > (10+ years of schooling) where students at Kyung Hee University study > harder > than MD students. > From the Kyung Hee University blog, the students study six days / week and > learn/study over 12 hours/ day. > Only those with the highest high-school completion exams can get into Kyung > Hee. > It's harder than Seoul University, which in itself is harder to get into > than Harvard. > So, only the cream of the crop of intellectuals can go to that school. > > There's also a lot of money invested in Asian medicine invested in Korea. > If you graduate from Kyung Hee for instance, I've heard that you can make > twice as much money as an MD. > So, ever since this last decade, many families want their children to > become > Asian medicine doctors > When they're in school, they learn both allopathic medicine as well as > traditional Korean/ Chinese medicine > and the schools have the money to get the latest medical technology as > well. > > I haven't visited Kyung-Hee, but a couple friends have. You can do > observation rounds. > It costs about $700/ week to watch. > > Their hard work is also an inspiration. > It makes me want to work harder, knowing that our medicine is such a > mystery > that requires mastery. > I know you feel the same way. > > Btw, about the warm waterfall feeling in the heel, a friend made a joke and > called it, > " running piglet Qi of the heel " or we can just call it.. " running piglet > heel " > > K > > On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > Here's the clinic site: http://www.samracli nic.com. The Samra > > administration is essentially all Korean, and from what I understand, > that's > > where the kinetic acupuncture comes from. (BTW, in the DAOM program the > > professors come from diverse backgrounds- -eg. Beijing, Vietnam, and of > > course, Seoul.) From what I have read and videos I've seen, they have had > > enormous success with musculo-skeletal problems using it. (if I remember > > correctly, you're Korean, right? If so, your might want to see the Samra > > site in Korean, find out the original term that they translated as > " kinetic > > acupuncture " and do a google search on in there.) If the shooting pain > > starts at around UB58, I think I would place needles at UB63, the > Xi-cleft > > point of the UB, as well as Lv 2 and Lv3, to unblock the Qi. There's much > > more to it then just placing needles and having the patient move or walk. > > For example, another thing they do, is place needles on Ah Shi points, > > and immediately take them out, to " wake up " and relax muscles, and then > go > > on to other points, the idea being to release one layer to get to the > next. > > It's interesting and different, I like it, and I'm learning alot. > > > > Getting back to your patient, like I said, I would definitely work first > > and strengthening the Spleen, and then, slowly and carefully nourish the > > blood--using herbs and of course acupuncture, and try to treat according > to > > the four weeks of her menstrual cycle. > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. > com>> > > wrote: > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > <Traditional_ > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > Sunday, May 3, 2009, 6:52 AM > > > > > > Yehuda, > > > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > > Actually, she usually does have short (3 days) and scanty periods (blood > > xu) > > > > and there is underlying SP Qi xu as well (fatigue) > > So, that makes sense. This feeling began after her period, where Qi and > > Blood is low. > > The occurrence was about 1 time/ day for a week. > > Now, she is ovulating and that warm water-fall sensation in her heel is > > less > > frequent. > > > > Since she's a dancer, she's stomping on her heel continuously (3 x/ > week), > > but it's only the right heel which is feeling this sensation. > > It begins around UB 58 and radiates to the inside of the heel > > (around the extra point for the brain and insomnia - center of the heel). > > She's sleeping fine and has no other complaints actually. > > > > The " Kinetic acupuncture " technique sounds interesting. Who was it > > developed by? > > Tung style acupuncture has this element in it as well for shoulder, neck, > > back and foot pains, > > but I've never heard of walking around with LV 2 or 3 inside the foot ! > > > > K > > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:53 AM, > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > I have had a couple of similar patients, females, who were athletes. My > > > read on cases like these is blood vacuity, precipitating qi and blood > > > stagnation, in the area of their weakest anatomical link, meaning that > > > which endures the most stimulation, and or trauma- the feet. A give > away > > in > > > my patients was very short and light menstrual periods. Initially, when > I > > > gave herbs to tonify yin and blood, I found that there was also an > > > underlying Spleen Qi vacuity as well, as they each had loose bowel > > > movements. So I used herbs to strengthen the spleen and dry dampness > > (BTW, > > > they each drank more water than was good for them, exacerbating the > > > problem), along with Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan to treat the wind-damp and > > nourish > > > the blood in the lower extemities. One other thing I have did was a > > > therapeutic application of acupuncture that I learned in the DAOM > program > > I > > > attend at Samra, what they call " Kinetic Acupuncture " . Palpate the > > > channels, to > > > determine where there might be stagnation or pain, needle one or two > > points > > > on the foot of that channel, eg. if there is tenderness along the liver > > > channel, you might consider needling Lv2 & Lv3, and then have the > patient > > > walk with the needle or needles in the foot, for 5-10 minutes up and > down > > > the hall of your office. Though painful at first, after a couple of > > minutes > > > the pain should be gone, and when you take the needle out so should be > > the > > > shooting sensation. The idea behind it is that by doing this, you are > > > mechanically moving the qi and decongesting the channel. I have seen > some > > > pretty amazing results. > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% > 40gmail. > > com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > <Traditional_ > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > > > Friday, May 1, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have a 33 yr old dancer patient who has a sudden warm waterfall > feeling > > > of > > > " energy " shooting down to her heel, > > > which comes on intermittently sitting or standing, only in this past > > week. > > > The feeling is not painful, nor numb, just strange. > > > > > > Otherwise, no other problems or pain. > > > I thought maybe a nerve at first.. L5 / S1, but no hua tuo jia ji > reflex, > > > no lower back pain, no hx of sciatica or piriformis sx. > > > > > > Her tongue is pale with a thin white coat. > > > Her pulse is string-taut in the left guan and thready in all other > > > positions. > > > > > > Any idea what this is from a TCM and Biomed diagnosis? > > > I remember hearing this as some sort of esoteric TCM diagnosis, but > don't > > > remember. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > K > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Turtle Island Integrative Health > > > www.turtleclinic. com > > > > > > TCM Review director > > > CA State Board Prep Courses > > > www.tcmreview. com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Thanks John for your recent, and very useful and informative, posts. Cheers, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 My wife is Korean yet practices TCM. She's told me that Korean traditional medicine is quite a closed knit group. It's very difficult to penetrate them. They are also grouped together to protect their industry from pharmacies, which are trying to steal their business. It's true that there has been a long tradition of knowledge exchange between China, Korea and Japan. My wife's grand father was the famous Korean acupuncturist Jonghwa Kim and apparently his knowledge was imported back into China. China didn't invent everything! Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine , <johnkokko wrote: > > Yehuda, > > Your last paragraph is revolutionary. That's exactly what we need, > residency programs > so that we can get clinical experience like they get in China and Korea. > Deke Kendall compared the hours of training between BA programs in China and > MA programs in the U.S. In China, they get twice as many clinical hours of > training > than U.S. programs. On top of that, they see exponentially more patients in > those hours. > > $3000/ month is not bad for a residency, considering that there's no > overhead to pay for > and a guaranteed six digit position in a couple years. > Most people are breaking their backs trying to get patients into the door. > Since we have to be business people first and medical practitioners second, > half of our time > is spent running a small business, retracting from developing our clinical > skills. > I have seen many fine practitioners not work because they don't do marketing > > and after a few years, one loses those " chops " . It's a shame in our > profession. > > In LA, like you said, there's a huge, insular Korean community, which works > to your advantage > if you can tap into that population. Koreans love acupuncture and herbal > medicine. > There were 3 top-grossing TV series about famous traditional doctors in the > last decade. > One was about the most famous Korean doctor in history... Ho Jun, who was > depicted > as a type of Confucian saint in the series, sacrificing his life for his > patients. > Another one was about Lee Jae-Ma, the founder of Sa-sang, the 4 constitution > school. > Although he was probably a wimpy guy in real life, he was cast as a martial > arts master, > because of course, it made the story more fun. The cool thing was that you > actually > learned something about medicine from watching the series. > The third one broke all the records in Asia... Dae Jang-Geum, > about a woman from humble beginnings who rose to become the King's personal > chef first > and then the King's personal physician. It was done really well from a > cinematic pov, > drawing you into the characters' complex archetypes and changes. > > So, in the last decade, there's been a huge explosion of traditional > medicine in Korea, > which has concreted with a Confucian work ethic and the guilt of not making > your family > and community happy if you don't succeed. My family thought that > traditional medicine > was low-class, until these TV dramas completely shifted the collective > consciousness > within this last decade. After that, the whole country was behind it. > Korea, as a whole, > has a very conservative element that loves tradition and order. Much of > that comes from > confucianism as well as a sense of suffering and survival from the time of > the annex by Japan > in the 1890s, WW2, the Korean War and the constant struggle for > re-unification. > In these ways, the character of the Korean people is similar to many Jewish > people that I know. > > About treating the root, as well as the branch. Two of the major schools > within TKM > (Traditional Korean Medicine) have that as their starting point: > Sa-am (4 needle technique), developed by a monk and based on 5 phasic distal > needling > and Sa-sang, based on the patient's innate constitutional characteristics, > akin to dosha therapy in Ayurveda. > > Since Korea has been China's younger brother for at least the last 2200 > years, > there has been constant trade of ideas and human resources creating an > expansive > body of knowledge which was fortunately not destroyed by the Cultural > Revolution in China. > In essence, Korea has become a time-capsule that is now being opened to the > world. > Similar to the islands of Taiwan and Japan, the major stumbling block or > boon as one can see it, > has been the influx of capitalism and cultural imperialism, which has > changed the ingredients, > but not the flavor of the medicine. > > Best to you, > K > > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:10 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Kokko, > > > > You confirm what I have sensed. It's very strange, here in LA, we have a > > very large Korean community, perhaps one of the largest outside of Korea, it > > would seem to me, the largest Asian group here, more than the Chinese as > > well. Yet there is an insularity which I, as an outsider feel. Samra has > > given we the opportunity to be exposed to Korean medicine, really for the > > first time. Though I attended Dongguk Royal University (a Korean school) > > for my master's program, we in the English program were made to feel like we > > were neglected step-children, sort of a necessary formality to receive > > accreditation. The quality of my education was, for the most part, very > > mediocre. The school primarily catered to Koreans, but we had next to > > nothing to do with them. I remember once, in my first year, asking if there > > were any exchange programs to study Korean medicine in Korea. I was > > answered tersely--no, as if to suggest, " and don't even bother asking > > again! " Here at Samra, though, the 6 Korean physicians in the Specialty > > pain clinic are encouraged to speak about their methodologies and actively > > do speak to the DAOM residents. They are very knowledgeable and though I > > don't always agree with their approaches, I love the openness. > > The problem I have with them, BTW, is that, as a pain clinic, they use > > their approaches (such as the kinetic acupuncture) to primarily > > treat symptoms, rather than root causes. One of the problems, of course, is > > that the clinic is very busy: It opened, just this last February, and they > > see well over 50 patients a day, and the number is growing. (And even > > though, unfortunately, most are Korean, the English speaking Master's > > interns and the physicians to address our questions). The approach really > > marries, as you imply, much more than do the Chinese, Oriental medical > > philosophy and practice, with Western physical medicine. For example, they > > do alot of trigger point needling, using thick, deep needles, which this > > insert, stimulate, and then immediately take out, in order to relax spasmed > > muscles. But as I mentioned, the results are very impressive. The new > > clinical residency is taking off as well: In addition to the > > DAOM program, they are beginning a new full time PAID residency program as > > well. In the 2 year program, residents are paid $3000 per month, which > > isn't bad at all, though they work hard and long hours, like 60 hours per > > week, plus being required to attend the didactic portion of the DAOM on > > Fridays. But not only that, then after they complete the two years, they > > are guaranteed a six figure salary either working here or in one of a few > > satellite clinics they envision opening. The school and the clinic > > administration have a vision, and I like it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:02 AM > > > > Yehuda, > > Yes.. there are great things coming out of Korea right now. There's a lot > > of dedicated study > > (10+ years of schooling) where students at Kyung Hee University study > > harder > > than MD students. > > From the Kyung Hee University blog, the students study six days / week and > > learn/study over 12 hours/ day. > > Only those with the highest high-school completion exams can get into Kyung > > Hee. > > It's harder than Seoul University, which in itself is harder to get into > > than Harvard. > > So, only the cream of the crop of intellectuals can go to that school. > > > > There's also a lot of money invested in Asian medicine invested in Korea. > > If you graduate from Kyung Hee for instance, I've heard that you can make > > twice as much money as an MD. > > So, ever since this last decade, many families want their children to > > become > > Asian medicine doctors > > When they're in school, they learn both allopathic medicine as well as > > traditional Korean/ Chinese medicine > > and the schools have the money to get the latest medical technology as > > well. > > > > I haven't visited Kyung-Hee, but a couple friends have. You can do > > observation rounds. > > It costs about $700/ week to watch. > > > > Their hard work is also an inspiration. > > It makes me want to work harder, knowing that our medicine is such a > > mystery > > that requires mastery. > > I know you feel the same way. > > > > Btw, about the warm waterfall feeling in the heel, a friend made a joke and > > called it, > > " running piglet Qi of the heel " or we can just call it.. " running piglet > > heel " > > > > K > > > > On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > Here's the clinic site: http://www.samracli nic.com. The Samra > > > administration is essentially all Korean, and from what I understand, > > that's > > > where the kinetic acupuncture comes from. (BTW, in the DAOM program the > > > professors come from diverse backgrounds- -eg. Beijing, Vietnam, and of > > > course, Seoul.) From what I have read and videos I've seen, they have had > > > enormous success with musculo-skeletal problems using it. (if I remember > > > correctly, you're Korean, right? If so, your might want to see the Samra > > > site in Korean, find out the original term that they translated as > > " kinetic > > > acupuncture " and do a google search on in there.) If the shooting pain > > > starts at around UB58, I think I would place needles at UB63, the > > Xi-cleft > > > point of the UB, as well as Lv 2 and Lv3, to unblock the Qi. There's much > > > more to it then just placing needles and having the patient move or walk. > > > For example, another thing they do, is place needles on Ah Shi points, > > > and immediately take them out, to " wake up " and relax muscles, and then > > go > > > on to other points, the idea being to release one layer to get to the > > next. > > > It's interesting and different, I like it, and I'm learning alot. > > > > > > Getting back to your patient, like I said, I would definitely work first > > > and strengthening the Spleen, and then, slowly and carefully nourish the > > > blood--using herbs and of course acupuncture, and try to treat according > > to > > > the four weeks of her menstrual cycle. > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko%40gmail. > > com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > <Traditional_ > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009, 6:52 AM > > > > > > > > > Yehuda, > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > > > Actually, she usually does have short (3 days) and scanty periods (blood > > > xu) > > > > > > and there is underlying SP Qi xu as well (fatigue) > > > So, that makes sense. This feeling began after her period, where Qi and > > > Blood is low. > > > The occurrence was about 1 time/ day for a week. > > > Now, she is ovulating and that warm water-fall sensation in her heel is > > > less > > > frequent. > > > > > > Since she's a dancer, she's stomping on her heel continuously (3 x/ > > week), > > > but it's only the right heel which is feeling this sensation. > > > It begins around UB 58 and radiates to the inside of the heel > > > (around the extra point for the brain and insomnia - center of the heel). > > > She's sleeping fine and has no other complaints actually. > > > > > > The " Kinetic acupuncture " technique sounds interesting. Who was it > > > developed by? > > > Tung style acupuncture has this element in it as well for shoulder, neck, > > > back and foot pains, > > > but I've never heard of walking around with LV 2 or 3 inside the foot ! > > > > > > K > > > > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:53 AM, > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > > > I have had a couple of similar patients, females, who were athletes. My > > > > read on cases like these is blood vacuity, precipitating qi and blood > > > > stagnation, in the area of their weakest anatomical link, meaning that > > > > which endures the most stimulation, and or trauma- the feet. A give > > away > > > in > > > > my patients was very short and light menstrual periods. Initially, when > > I > > > > gave herbs to tonify yin and blood, I found that there was also an > > > > underlying Spleen Qi vacuity as well, as they each had loose bowel > > > > movements. So I used herbs to strengthen the spleen and dry dampness > > > (BTW, > > > > they each drank more water than was good for them, exacerbating the > > > > problem), along with Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan to treat the wind-damp and > > > nourish > > > > the blood in the lower extemities. One other thing I have did was a > > > > therapeutic application of acupuncture that I learned in the DAOM > > program > > > I > > > > attend at Samra, what they call " Kinetic Acupuncture " . Palpate the > > > > channels, to > > > > determine where there might be stagnation or pain, needle one or two > > > points > > > > on the foot of that channel, eg. if there is tenderness along the liver > > > > channel, you might consider needling Lv2 & Lv3, and then have the > > patient > > > > walk with the needle or needles in the foot, for 5-10 minutes up and > > down > > > > the hall of your office. Though painful at first, after a couple of > > > minutes > > > > the pain should be gone, and when you take the needle out so should be > > > the > > > > shooting sensation. The idea behind it is that by doing this, you are > > > > mechanically moving the qi and decongesting the channel. I have seen > > some > > > > pretty amazing results. > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% > > 40gmail. > > > com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > > warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > > <Traditional_ > > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > > > > > Friday, May 1, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I have a 33 yr old dancer patient who has a sudden warm waterfall > > feeling > > > > of > > > > " energy " shooting down to her heel, > > > > which comes on intermittently sitting or standing, only in this past > > > week. > > > > The feeling is not painful, nor numb, just strange. > > > > > > > > Otherwise, no other problems or pain. > > > > I thought maybe a nerve at first.. L5 / S1, but no hua tuo jia ji > > reflex, > > > > no lower back pain, no hx of sciatica or piriformis sx. > > > > > > > > Her tongue is pale with a thin white coat. > > > > Her pulse is string-taut in the left guan and thready in all other > > > > positions. > > > > > > > > Any idea what this is from a TCM and Biomed diagnosis? > > > > I remember hearing this as some sort of esoteric TCM diagnosis, but > > don't > > > > remember. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Turtle Island Integrative Health > > > > www.turtleclinic. com > > > > > > > > TCM Review director > > > > CA State Board Prep Courses > > > > www.tcmreview. com > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Attilio, I'm surprised that your wife hasn't been able to get teachings from teachers out there, considering that she is the grand-daughter of a famous doctor. There could be a couple reasons.... 1. regional seclusion (it's not hard to get these teachings in CA, but maybe harder in the UK) 2. sexism (it's not a problem in the schools in Korea and U.S., but there could be individuals who have those hang-ups) Of course, there's a pervading long-tradition of men being doctors both in Chinese and Korean medicine, but these days there are just as many women doing medicine as men or even more so. The older generation is more sexist and ethnocentric than the current generation, which is actually very open and egalitarian. The main thing is that Koreans usually are very loyal to other Koreans, so if your wife has any Korean blood, I don't see why it would be hard at all. It should be very easy. Getting in the door requires an introduction. Once you have it, you're like family. Honestly, the biggest reason that Korean medicine has not become mainstream in the acupuncture community is because of language barriers and a lack of specialist translators who can transmit that knowledge. Japanese acupuncture has Stephen Birch and Stephen Brown, plus Japanese culture penetrated American culture after WWII. Sushi and Japanese cars and tech were household names by the 80s. Korean BBQ and Samsung came on a couple decades later on the international scene. I think for Korean medicine to get out there, Koreans themselves need to be bilingual. My Korean is not so good, but my friend HB Kim can teach Korean medicine very well. He is very open to doing so. I think more interesting than acupuncture even, is the herbal tradition in Korea. From ancient times, there have been separate and conjoining currents of herbal knowledge that is indigenous to Korea, including the preparation and usage of tonics ie ren shen, wild mushrooms and local village herbs. Korea's primary creation myth about Tan'gun describes a bear woman coming down from her cave with two herbs in her hands, garlic and artemesia (either ai ye or qing hao) So, herbalism has always been important in the Korean culture and like China, it pervades all strata of society. When you write that China didn't invent everything, that is true. Ho Jun's encyclopedic text : Dong I Bo Geum accumulated all Korean and Chinese medical knowledge that Ho Jun could get access to up to that time period. His encyclopedia was used in China as well. Later on, Lee Jae-Ma organized the Sa-Sang school, which uses different herbs for different constitution types. For instance, Ci wu jia has a different action on a Shao yang person than it would for a Shao yin type person. There is also folk and shamanic traditions that are not accounted for. There are still people living in the mountains the same way they have for centuries. I don't think that the intro in the new Scheid/Bensky Formulas book does justice to the vast tradition of Korean herbalism/formulaism. Always more to learn... K On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:12 PM, < attiliodalberto wrote: > > > My wife is Korean yet practices TCM. She's told me that Korean traditional > medicine is quite a closed knit group. It's very difficult to penetrate > them. They are also grouped together to protect their industry from > pharmacies, which are trying to steal their business. > > It's true that there has been a long tradition of knowledge exchange > between China, Korea and Japan. My wife's grand father was the famous Korean > acupuncturist Jonghwa Kim and apparently his knowledge was imported back > into China. China didn't invent everything! > > Attilio > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > <johnkokko wrote: > > > > Yehuda, > > > > Your last paragraph is revolutionary. That's exactly what we need, > > residency programs > > so that we can get clinical experience like they get in China and Korea. > > Deke Kendall compared the hours of training between BA programs in China > and > > MA programs in the U.S. In China, they get twice as many clinical hours > of > > training > > than U.S. programs. On top of that, they see exponentially more patients > in > > those hours. > > > > $3000/ month is not bad for a residency, considering that there's no > > overhead to pay for > > and a guaranteed six digit position in a couple years. > > Most people are breaking their backs trying to get patients into the > door. > > Since we have to be business people first and medical practitioners > second, > > half of our time > > is spent running a small business, retracting from developing our > clinical > > skills. > > I have seen many fine practitioners not work because they don't do > marketing > > > > and after a few years, one loses those " chops " . It's a shame in our > > profession. > > > > In LA, like you said, there's a huge, insular Korean community, which > works > > to your advantage > > if you can tap into that population. Koreans love acupuncture and herbal > > medicine. > > There were 3 top-grossing TV series about famous traditional doctors in > the > > last decade. > > One was about the most famous Korean doctor in history... Ho Jun, who was > > depicted > > as a type of Confucian saint in the series, sacrificing his life for his > > patients. > > Another one was about Lee Jae-Ma, the founder of Sa-sang, the 4 > constitution > > school. > > Although he was probably a wimpy guy in real life, he was cast as a > martial > > arts master, > > because of course, it made the story more fun. The cool thing was that > you > > actually > > learned something about medicine from watching the series. > > The third one broke all the records in Asia... Dae Jang-Geum, > > about a woman from humble beginnings who rose to become the King's > personal > > chef first > > and then the King's personal physician. It was done really well from a > > cinematic pov, > > drawing you into the characters' complex archetypes and changes. > > > > So, in the last decade, there's been a huge explosion of traditional > > medicine in Korea, > > which has concreted with a Confucian work ethic and the guilt of not > making > > your family > > and community happy if you don't succeed. My family thought that > > traditional medicine > > was low-class, until these TV dramas completely shifted the collective > > consciousness > > within this last decade. After that, the whole country was behind it. > > Korea, as a whole, > > has a very conservative element that loves tradition and order. Much of > > that comes from > > confucianism as well as a sense of suffering and survival from the time > of > > the annex by Japan > > in the 1890s, WW2, the Korean War and the constant struggle for > > re-unification. > > In these ways, the character of the Korean people is similar to many > Jewish > > people that I know. > > > > About treating the root, as well as the branch. Two of the major schools > > within TKM > > (Traditional Korean Medicine) have that as their starting point: > > Sa-am (4 needle technique), developed by a monk and based on 5 phasic > distal > > needling > > and Sa-sang, based on the patient's innate constitutional > characteristics, > > akin to dosha therapy in Ayurveda. > > > > Since Korea has been China's younger brother for at least the last 2200 > > years, > > there has been constant trade of ideas and human resources creating an > > expansive > > body of knowledge which was fortunately not destroyed by the Cultural > > Revolution in China. > > In essence, Korea has become a time-capsule that is now being opened to > the > > world. > > Similar to the islands of Taiwan and Japan, the major stumbling block or > > boon as one can see it, > > has been the influx of capitalism and cultural imperialism, which has > > changed the ingredients, > > but not the flavor of the medicine. > > > > Best to you, > > K > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:10 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kokko, > > > > > > You confirm what I have sensed. It's very strange, here in LA, we have > a > > > very large Korean community, perhaps one of the largest outside of > Korea, it > > > would seem to me, the largest Asian group here, more than the Chinese > as > > > well. Yet there is an insularity which I, as an outsider feel. Samra > has > > > given we the opportunity to be exposed to Korean medicine, really for > the > > > first time. Though I attended Dongguk Royal University (a Korean > school) > > > for my master's program, we in the English program were made to feel > like we > > > were neglected step-children, sort of a necessary formality to receive > > > accreditation. The quality of my education was, for the most part, very > > > mediocre. The school primarily catered to Koreans, but we had next to > > > nothing to do with them. I remember once, in my first year, asking if > there > > > were any exchange programs to study Korean medicine in Korea. I was > > > answered tersely--no, as if to suggest, " and don't even bother asking > > > again! " Here at Samra, though, the 6 Korean physicians in the Specialty > > > pain clinic are encouraged to speak about their methodologies and > actively > > > do speak to the DAOM residents. They are very knowledgeable and though > I > > > don't always agree with their approaches, I love the openness. > > > The problem I have with them, BTW, is that, as a pain clinic, they use > > > their approaches (such as the kinetic acupuncture) to primarily > > > treat symptoms, rather than root causes. One of the problems, of > course, is > > > that the clinic is very busy: It opened, just this last February, and > they > > > see well over 50 patients a day, and the number is growing. (And even > > > though, unfortunately, most are Korean, the English speaking Master's > > > interns and the physicians to address our questions). The approach > really > > > marries, as you imply, much more than do the Chinese, Oriental medical > > > philosophy and practice, with Western physical medicine. For example, > they > > > do alot of trigger point needling, using thick, deep needles, which > this > > > insert, stimulate, and then immediately take out, in order to relax > spasmed > > > muscles. But as I mentioned, the results are very impressive. The new > > > clinical residency is taking off as well: In addition to the > > > DAOM program, they are beginning a new full time PAID residency program > as > > > well. In the 2 year program, residents are paid $3000 per month, which > > > isn't bad at all, though they work hard and long hours, like 60 hours > per > > > week, plus being required to attend the didactic portion of the DAOM on > > > Fridays. But not only that, then after they complete the two years, > they > > > are guaranteed a six figure salary either working here or in one of a > few > > > satellite clinics they envision opening. The school and the clinic > > > administration have a vision, and I like it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > <Chinese Medicine%40> > > > Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:02 AM > > > > > > Yehuda, > > > Yes.. there are great things coming out of Korea right now. There's a > lot > > > of dedicated study > > > (10+ years of schooling) where students at Kyung Hee University study > > > harder > > > than MD students. > > > From the Kyung Hee University blog, the students study six days / week > and > > > learn/study over 12 hours/ day. > > > Only those with the highest high-school completion exams can get into > Kyung > > > Hee. > > > It's harder than Seoul University, which in itself is harder to get > into > > > than Harvard. > > > So, only the cream of the crop of intellectuals can go to that school. > > > > > > There's also a lot of money invested in Asian medicine invested in > Korea. > > > If you graduate from Kyung Hee for instance, I've heard that you can > make > > > twice as much money as an MD. > > > So, ever since this last decade, many families want their children to > > > become > > > Asian medicine doctors > > > When they're in school, they learn both allopathic medicine as well as > > > traditional Korean/ Chinese medicine > > > and the schools have the money to get the latest medical technology as > > > well. > > > > > > I haven't visited Kyung-Hee, but a couple friends have. You can do > > > observation rounds. > > > It costs about $700/ week to watch. > > > > > > Their hard work is also an inspiration. > > > It makes me want to work harder, knowing that our medicine is such a > > > mystery > > > that requires mastery. > > > I know you feel the same way. > > > > > > Btw, about the warm waterfall feeling in the heel, a friend made a joke > and > > > called it, > > > " running piglet Qi of the heel " or we can just call it.. " running > piglet > > > heel " > > > > > > K > > > > > > On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > > > Here's the clinic site: http://www.samracli nic.com. The Samra > > > > administration is essentially all Korean, and from what I understand, > > > that's > > > > where the kinetic acupuncture comes from. (BTW, in the DAOM program > the > > > > professors come from diverse backgrounds- -eg. Beijing, Vietnam, and > of > > > > course, Seoul.) From what I have read and videos I've seen, they have > had > > > > enormous success with musculo-skeletal problems using it. (if I > remember > > > > correctly, you're Korean, right? If so, your might want to see the > Samra > > > > site in Korean, find out the original term that they translated as > > > " kinetic > > > > acupuncture " and do a google search on in there.) If the shooting > pain > > > > starts at around UB58, I think I would place needles at UB63, the > > > Xi-cleft > > > > point of the UB, as well as Lv 2 and Lv3, to unblock the Qi. There's > much > > > > more to it then just placing needles and having the patient move or > walk. > > > > For example, another thing they do, is place needles on Ah Shi > points, > > > > and immediately take them out, to " wake up " and relax muscles, and > then > > > go > > > > on to other points, the idea being to release one layer to get to the > > > next. > > > > It's interesting and different, I like it, and I'm learning alot. > > > > > > > > Getting back to your patient, like I said, I would definitely work > first > > > > and strengthening the Spleen, and then, slowly and carefully nourish > the > > > > blood--using herbs and of course acupuncture, and try to treat > according > > > to > > > > the four weeks of her menstrual cycle. > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail. > > > com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > > <Traditional_ > > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009, 6:52 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Yehuda, > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > > > > Actually, she usually does have short (3 days) and scanty periods > (blood > > > > xu) > > > > > > > > and there is underlying SP Qi xu as well (fatigue) > > > > So, that makes sense. This feeling began after her period, where Qi > and > > > > Blood is low. > > > > The occurrence was about 1 time/ day for a week. > > > > Now, she is ovulating and that warm water-fall sensation in her heel > is > > > > less > > > > frequent. > > > > > > > > Since she's a dancer, she's stomping on her heel continuously (3 x/ > > > week), > > > > but it's only the right heel which is feeling this sensation. > > > > It begins around UB 58 and radiates to the inside of the heel > > > > (around the extra point for the brain and insomnia - center of the > heel). > > > > She's sleeping fine and has no other complaints actually. > > > > > > > > The " Kinetic acupuncture " technique sounds interesting. Who was it > > > > developed by? > > > > Tung style acupuncture has this element in it as well for shoulder, > neck, > > > > back and foot pains, > > > > but I've never heard of walking around with LV 2 or 3 inside the foot > ! > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:53 AM, > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > > > > > I have had a couple of similar patients, females, who were > athletes. My > > > > > read on cases like these is blood vacuity, precipitating qi and > blood > > > > > stagnation, in the area of their weakest anatomical link, meaning > that > > > > > which endures the most stimulation, and or trauma- the feet. A give > > > away > > > > in > > > > > my patients was very short and light menstrual periods. Initially, > when > > > I > > > > > gave herbs to tonify yin and blood, I found that there was also an > > > > > underlying Spleen Qi vacuity as well, as they each had loose bowel > > > > > movements. So I used herbs to strengthen the spleen and dry > dampness > > > > (BTW, > > > > > they each drank more water than was good for them, exacerbating the > > > > > problem), along with Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan to treat the wind-damp and > > > > nourish > > > > > the blood in the lower extemities. One other thing I have did was a > > > > > therapeutic application of acupuncture that I learned in the DAOM > > > program > > > > I > > > > > attend at Samra, what they call " Kinetic Acupuncture " . Palpate the > > > > > channels, to > > > > > determine where there might be stagnation or pain, needle one or > two > > > > points > > > > > on the foot of that channel, eg. if there is tenderness along the > liver > > > > > channel, you might consider needling Lv2 & Lv3, and then have the > > > patient > > > > > walk with the needle or needles in the foot, for 5-10 minutes up > and > > > down > > > > > the hall of your office. Though painful at first, after a couple of > > > > minutes > > > > > the pain should be gone, and when you take the needle out so should > be > > > > the > > > > > shooting sensation. The idea behind it is that by doing this, you > are > > > > > mechanically moving the qi and decongesting the channel. I have > seen > > > some > > > > > pretty amazing results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% > > > 40gmail. > > > > com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > > > warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > > > <Traditional_ > > > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > > > > > > > Friday, May 1, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > I have a 33 yr old dancer patient who has a sudden warm waterfall > > > feeling > > > > > of > > > > > " energy " shooting down to her heel, > > > > > which comes on intermittently sitting or standing, only in this > past > > > > week. > > > > > The feeling is not painful, nor numb, just strange. > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, no other problems or pain. > > > > > I thought maybe a nerve at first.. L5 / S1, but no hua tuo jia ji > > > reflex, > > > > > no lower back pain, no hx of sciatica or piriformis sx. > > > > > > > > > > Her tongue is pale with a thin white coat. > > > > > Her pulse is string-taut in the left guan and thready in all other > > > > > positions. > > > > > > > > > > Any idea what this is from a TCM and Biomed diagnosis? > > > > > I remember hearing this as some sort of esoteric TCM diagnosis, but > > > don't > > > > > remember. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Turtle Island Integrative Health > > > > > www.turtleclinic. com > > > > > > > > > > TCM Review director > > > > > CA State Board Prep Courses > > > > > www.tcmreview. com > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Dear Kokko and Attilio, The Mishna tells us, " Who is the wise person? One one who sees that which is being born " --meaning to have the vision to see beyond face value. For 5 years, I have made inquiries into all of the DAOM programs, and none were able to accommodate my Sabbath observance requirements until now. I really feel blessed to be given this opportunity to attend the DAOM, and if I were younger and could afford to, I would definitely have submitted an application for the clinical residency. 'You want to hear something amazing, though? I believe that they are accepting something like 10 candidates, and there were over 80 applications! It's very encouraging to me that there are those among our number who are interested in bettering themselves, and aren't afraid to work hard. Those of us in the doctoral program do our residency with 2- 4 hour shifts weekly, and as I said, the physicians are encouraged to teach and engage us as they treat patients. The range of approaches they take is eclectic and diverse, and their results are excellent. After 80 hours of observation, we will be treating as well. They have also scheduled for us quite a few special seminars, with a range of subjects from Sa-sang, and Sa-am, to MRI diagnostics and Therapeutic Cervical Tuina/Therapeutic Lumbar Tuina. I will keep you all informed as to my progress. Thank you both for shedding more light on the Korean culture and mentality. It is very easy for one to be turned off by certain aspects of it which a Westerner might find disturbing (even a Westerner named Yehuda!) I give alot of credit to the administration for their encouragement and investment in the success of these two endeavors: The DAOM, and the Samra Acupuncture Spine Center. --- On Tue, 5/5/09, <attiliodalberto wrote: <attiliodalberto Re: Samra and Korean medicine Chinese Medicine Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:12 PM My wife is Korean yet practices TCM. She's told me that Korean traditional medicine is quite a closed knit group. It's very difficult to penetrate them. They are also grouped together to protect their industry from pharmacies, which are trying to steal their business. It's true that there has been a long tradition of knowledge exchange between China, Korea and Japan. My wife's grand father was the famous Korean acupuncturist Jonghwa Kim and apparently his knowledge was imported back into China. China didn't invent everything! Attilio www.chinesemedicine times.com Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <johnkokko@. ...> wrote: > > Yehuda, > > Your last paragraph is revolutionary. That's exactly what we need, > residency programs > so that we can get clinical experience like they get in China and Korea. > Deke Kendall compared the hours of training between BA programs in China and > MA programs in the U.S. In China, they get twice as many clinical hours of > training > than U.S. programs. On top of that, they see exponentially more patients in > those hours. > > $3000/ month is not bad for a residency, considering that there's no > overhead to pay for > and a guaranteed six digit position in a couple years. > Most people are breaking their backs trying to get patients into the door. > Since we have to be business people first and medical practitioners second, > half of our time > is spent running a small business, retracting from developing our clinical > skills. > I have seen many fine practitioners not work because they don't do marketing > > and after a few years, one loses those " chops " . It's a shame in our > profession. > > In LA, like you said, there's a huge, insular Korean community, which works > to your advantage > if you can tap into that population. Koreans love acupuncture and herbal > medicine. > There were 3 top-grossing TV series about famous traditional doctors in the > last decade. > One was about the most famous Korean doctor in history... Ho Jun, who was > depicted > as a type of Confucian saint in the series, sacrificing his life for his > patients. > Another one was about Lee Jae-Ma, the founder of Sa-sang, the 4 constitution > school. > Although he was probably a wimpy guy in real life, he was cast as a martial > arts master, > because of course, it made the story more fun. The cool thing was that you > actually > learned something about medicine from watching the series. > The third one broke all the records in Asia... Dae Jang-Geum, > about a woman from humble beginnings who rose to become the King's personal > chef first > and then the King's personal physician. It was done really well from a > cinematic pov, > drawing you into the characters' complex archetypes and changes. > > So, in the last decade, there's been a huge explosion of traditional > medicine in Korea, > which has concreted with a Confucian work ethic and the guilt of not making > your family > and community happy if you don't succeed. My family thought that > traditional medicine > was low-class, until these TV dramas completely shifted the collective > consciousness > within this last decade. After that, the whole country was behind it. > Korea, as a whole, > has a very conservative element that loves tradition and order. Much of > that comes from > confucianism as well as a sense of suffering and survival from the time of > the annex by Japan > in the 1890s, WW2, the Korean War and the constant struggle for > re-unification. > In these ways, the character of the Korean people is similar to many Jewish > people that I know. > > About treating the root, as well as the branch. Two of the major schools > within TKM > (Traditional Korean Medicine) have that as their starting point: > Sa-am (4 needle technique), developed by a monk and based on 5 phasic distal > needling > and Sa-sang, based on the patient's innate constitutional characteristics, > akin to dosha therapy in Ayurveda. > > Since Korea has been China's younger brother for at least the last 2200 > years, > there has been constant trade of ideas and human resources creating an > expansive > body of knowledge which was fortunately not destroyed by the Cultural > Revolution in China. > In essence, Korea has become a time-capsule that is now being opened to the > world. > Similar to the islands of Taiwan and Japan, the major stumbling block or > boon as one can see it, > has been the influx of capitalism and cultural imperialism, which has > changed the ingredients, > but not the flavor of the medicine. > > Best to you, > K > > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:10 AM, @.. .>wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Kokko, > > > > You confirm what I have sensed. It's very strange, here in LA, we have a > > very large Korean community, perhaps one of the largest outside of Korea, it > > would seem to me, the largest Asian group here, more than the Chinese as > > well. Yet there is an insularity which I, as an outsider feel. Samra has > > given we the opportunity to be exposed to Korean medicine, really for the > > first time. Though I attended Dongguk Royal University (a Korean school) > > for my master's program, we in the English program were made to feel like we > > were neglected step-children, sort of a necessary formality to receive > > accreditation. The quality of my education was, for the most part, very > > mediocre. The school primarily catered to Koreans, but we had next to > > nothing to do with them. I remember once, in my first year, asking if there > > were any exchange programs to study Korean medicine in Korea. I was > > answered tersely--no, as if to suggest, " and don't even bother asking > > again! " Here at Samra, though, the 6 Korean physicians in the Specialty > > pain clinic are encouraged to speak about their methodologies and actively > > do speak to the DAOM residents. They are very knowledgeable and though I > > don't always agree with their approaches, I love the openness. > > The problem I have with them, BTW, is that, as a pain clinic, they use > > their approaches (such as the kinetic acupuncture) to primarily > > treat symptoms, rather than root causes. One of the problems, of course, is > > that the clinic is very busy: It opened, just this last February, and they > > see well over 50 patients a day, and the number is growing. (And even > > though, unfortunately, most are Korean, the English speaking Master's > > interns and the physicians to address our questions). The approach really > > marries, as you imply, much more than do the Chinese, Oriental medical > > philosophy and practice, with Western physical medicine. For example, they > > do alot of trigger point needling, using thick, deep needles, which this > > insert, stimulate, and then immediately take out, in order to relax spasmed > > muscles. But as I mentioned, the results are very impressive. The new > > clinical residency is taking off as well: In addition to the > > DAOM program, they are beginning a new full time PAID residency program as > > well. In the 2 year program, residents are paid $3000 per month, which > > isn't bad at all, though they work hard and long hours, like 60 hours per > > week, plus being required to attend the didactic portion of the DAOM on > > Fridays. But not only that, then after they complete the two years, they > > are guaranteed a six figure salary either working here or in one of a few > > satellite clinics they envision opening. The school and the clinic > > administration have a vision, and I like it! > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, <johnkokko@. ..<johnkokko% 40gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > <johnkokko@. .. <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:02 AM > > > > Yehuda, > > Yes.. there are great things coming out of Korea right now. There's a lot > > of dedicated study > > (10+ years of schooling) where students at Kyung Hee University study > > harder > > than MD students. > > From the Kyung Hee University blog, the students study six days / week and > > learn/study over 12 hours/ day. > > Only those with the highest high-school completion exams can get into Kyung > > Hee. > > It's harder than Seoul University, which in itself is harder to get into > > than Harvard. > > So, only the cream of the crop of intellectuals can go to that school. > > > > There's also a lot of money invested in Asian medicine invested in Korea. > > If you graduate from Kyung Hee for instance, I've heard that you can make > > twice as much money as an MD. > > So, ever since this last decade, many families want their children to > > become > > Asian medicine doctors > > When they're in school, they learn both allopathic medicine as well as > > traditional Korean/ Chinese medicine > > and the schools have the money to get the latest medical technology as > > well. > > > > I haven't visited Kyung-Hee, but a couple friends have. You can do > > observation rounds. > > It costs about $700/ week to watch. > > > > Their hard work is also an inspiration. > > It makes me want to work harder, knowing that our medicine is such a > > mystery > > that requires mastery. > > I know you feel the same way. > > > > Btw, about the warm waterfall feeling in the heel, a friend made a joke and > > called it, > > " running piglet Qi of the heel " or we can just call it.. " running piglet > > heel " > > > > K > > > > On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, @.. .>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > Here's the clinic site: http://www.samracli nic.com. The Samra > > > administration is essentially all Korean, and from what I understand, > > that's > > > where the kinetic acupuncture comes from. (BTW, in the DAOM program the > > > professors come from diverse backgrounds- -eg. Beijing, Vietnam, and of > > > course, Seoul.) From what I have read and videos I've seen, they have had > > > enormous success with musculo-skeletal problems using it. (if I remember > > > correctly, you're Korean, right? If so, your might want to see the Samra > > > site in Korean, find out the original term that they translated as > > " kinetic > > > acupuncture " and do a google search on in there.) If the shooting pain > > > starts at around UB58, I think I would place needles at UB63, the > > Xi-cleft > > > point of the UB, as well as Lv 2 and Lv3, to unblock the Qi. There's much > > > more to it then just placing needles and having the patient move or walk. > > > For example, another thing they do, is place needles on Ah Shi points, > > > and immediately take them out, to " wake up " and relax muscles, and then > > go > > > on to other points, the idea being to release one layer to get to the > > next. > > > It's interesting and different, I like it, and I'm learning alot. > > > > > > Getting back to your patient, like I said, I would definitely work first > > > and strengthening the Spleen, and then, slowly and carefully nourish the > > > blood--using herbs and of course acupuncture, and try to treat according > > to > > > the four weeks of her menstrual cycle. > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% 40gmail. > > com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > <Traditional_ > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009, 6:52 AM > > > > > > > > > Yehuda, > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > > > Actually, she usually does have short (3 days) and scanty periods (blood > > > xu) > > > > > > and there is underlying SP Qi xu as well (fatigue) > > > So, that makes sense. This feeling began after her period, where Qi and > > > Blood is low. > > > The occurrence was about 1 time/ day for a week. > > > Now, she is ovulating and that warm water-fall sensation in her heel is > > > less > > > frequent. > > > > > > Since she's a dancer, she's stomping on her heel continuously (3 x/ > > week), > > > but it's only the right heel which is feeling this sensation. > > > It begins around UB 58 and radiates to the inside of the heel > > > (around the extra point for the brain and insomnia - center of the heel). > > > She's sleeping fine and has no other complaints actually. > > > > > > The " Kinetic acupuncture " technique sounds interesting. Who was it > > > developed by? > > > Tung style acupuncture has this element in it as well for shoulder, neck, > > > back and foot pains, > > > but I've never heard of walking around with LV 2 or 3 inside the foot ! > > > > > > K > > > > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:53 AM, > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > > > I have had a couple of similar patients, females, who were athletes. My > > > > read on cases like these is blood vacuity, precipitating qi and blood > > > > stagnation, in the area of their weakest anatomical link, meaning that > > > > which endures the most stimulation, and or trauma- the feet. A give > > away > > > in > > > > my patients was very short and light menstrual periods. Initially, when > > I > > > > gave herbs to tonify yin and blood, I found that there was also an > > > > underlying Spleen Qi vacuity as well, as they each had loose bowel > > > > movements. So I used herbs to strengthen the spleen and dry dampness > > > (BTW, > > > > they each drank more water than was good for them, exacerbating the > > > > problem), along with Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan to treat the wind-damp and > > > nourish > > > > the blood in the lower extemities. One other thing I have did was a > > > > therapeutic application of acupuncture that I learned in the DAOM > > program > > > I > > > > attend at Samra, what they call " Kinetic Acupuncture " . Palpate the > > > > channels, to > > > > determine where there might be stagnation or pain, needle one or two > > > points > > > > on the foot of that channel, eg. if there is tenderness along the liver > > > > channel, you might consider needling Lv2 & Lv3, and then have the > > patient > > > > walk with the needle or needles in the foot, for 5-10 minutes up and > > down > > > > the hall of your office. Though painful at first, after a couple of > > > minutes > > > > the pain should be gone, and when you take the needle out so should be > > > the > > > > shooting sensation. The idea behind it is that by doing this, you are > > > > mechanically moving the qi and decongesting the channel. I have seen > > some > > > > pretty amazing results. > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% > > 40gmail. > > > com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > > warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > > <Traditional_ > > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > > > > > Friday, May 1, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I have a 33 yr old dancer patient who has a sudden warm waterfall > > feeling > > > > of > > > > " energy " shooting down to her heel, > > > > which comes on intermittently sitting or standing, only in this past > > > week. > > > > The feeling is not painful, nor numb, just strange. > > > > > > > > Otherwise, no other problems or pain. > > > > I thought maybe a nerve at first.. L5 / S1, but no hua tuo jia ji > > reflex, > > > > no lower back pain, no hx of sciatica or piriformis sx. > > > > > > > > Her tongue is pale with a thin white coat. > > > > Her pulse is string-taut in the left guan and thready in all other > > > > positions. > > > > > > > > Any idea what this is from a TCM and Biomed diagnosis? > > > > I remember hearing this as some sort of esoteric TCM diagnosis, but > > don't > > > > remember. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Turtle Island Integrative Health > > > > www.turtleclinic. com > > > > > > > > TCM Review director > > > > CA State Board Prep Courses > > > > www.tcmreview. com > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yehuda, The DAOM program you're involved in sounds like a true doctorate program. Some other programs out there seem like a string of CEU classes without a clear clinical element. Here are free pdfs from some courses held at Kyunghee University in Korea with Open Course ware: http://ocw.khu.ac.kr:8080/CTL/CTL/oriental-medicine-dentistry-pharmacy You can click on the courses and download the notes for free. They are in English with Korean in some cases. Reading Korean is much easier than Hebrew I'm sure. If you want to hang out with some of those Korean practitioners on a social level, it's best to learn a little bit of the language and to break bread with them, because everyone likes to eat, especially Koreans and especially some kal-bi (bbq ribs), kim-chi and so-ju (rice-wine), observations permitting. Without going into a whole bunch of stereo-typing, I think that everyone is an individual only limited by cultural constraints. You're definitely lucky to be in that program and to have the faith that you do in your life. K On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 12:51 AM, wrote: > > > Dear Kokko and Attilio, > > The Mishna tells us, " Who is the wise person? One one who sees that which > is being born " --meaning to have the vision to see beyond face value. For 5 > years, I have made inquiries into all of the DAOM programs, and none were > able to accommodate my Sabbath observance requirements until now. I really > feel blessed to be given this opportunity to attend the DAOM, and if I were > younger and could afford to, I would definitely have submitted an > application for the clinical residency. 'You want to hear something > amazing, though? I believe that they are accepting something like > 10 candidates, and there were over 80 applications! It's very encouraging > to me that there are those among our number who are interested in bettering > themselves, and aren't afraid to work hard. > > Those of us in the doctoral program do our residency with 2- 4 hour shifts > weekly, and as I said, the physicians are encouraged to teach and engage us > as they treat patients. The range of approaches they take is eclectic and > diverse, and their results are excellent. After 80 hours of observation, > we will be treating as well. They have also scheduled for us quite a few > special seminars, with a range of subjects from Sa-sang, and > Sa-am, to MRI diagnostics and Therapeutic Cervical Tuina/Therapeutic > Lumbar Tuina. I will keep you all informed as to my progress. > > > Thank you both for shedding more light on the Korean culture and > mentality. It is very easy for one to be turned off by certain aspects of > it which a Westerner might find disturbing (even a Westerner > named Yehuda!) I give alot of credit to the administration for their > encouragement and investment in the success of these two endeavors: The > DAOM, and the Samra Acupuncture Spine Center. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, <attiliodalberto<attiliodalberto%40.co.uk>> > wrote: > > <attiliodalberto<attiliodalberto%40.co.uk> > > > Re: Samra and Korean medicine > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:12 PM > > My wife is Korean yet practices TCM. She's told me that Korean traditional > medicine is quite a closed knit group. It's very difficult to penetrate > them. They are also grouped together to protect their industry from > pharmacies, which are trying to steal their business. > > It's true that there has been a long tradition of knowledge exchange > between China, Korea and Japan. My wife's grand father was the famous Korean > acupuncturist Jonghwa Kim and apparently his knowledge was imported back > into China. China didn't invent everything! > > Attilio > www.chinesemedicine times.com > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , > <johnkokko@. ..> wrote: > > > > Yehuda, > > > > Your last paragraph is revolutionary. That's exactly what we need, > > residency programs > > so that we can get clinical experience like they get in China and Korea. > > Deke Kendall compared the hours of training between BA programs in China > and > > MA programs in the U.S. In China, they get twice as many clinical hours > of > > training > > than U.S. programs. On top of that, they see exponentially more patients > in > > those hours. > > > > $3000/ month is not bad for a residency, considering that there's no > > overhead to pay for > > and a guaranteed six digit position in a couple years. > > Most people are breaking their backs trying to get patients into the > door. > > Since we have to be business people first and medical practitioners > second, > > half of our time > > is spent running a small business, retracting from developing our > clinical > > skills. > > I have seen many fine practitioners not work because they don't do > marketing > > > > and after a few years, one loses those " chops " . It's a shame in our > > profession. > > > > In LA, like you said, there's a huge, insular Korean community, which > works > > to your advantage > > if you can tap into that population. Koreans love acupuncture and herbal > > medicine. > > There were 3 top-grossing TV series about famous traditional doctors in > the > > last decade. > > One was about the most famous Korean doctor in history... Ho Jun, who was > > depicted > > as a type of Confucian saint in the series, sacrificing his life for his > > patients. > > Another one was about Lee Jae-Ma, the founder of Sa-sang, the 4 > constitution > > school. > > Although he was probably a wimpy guy in real life, he was cast as a > martial > > arts master, > > because of course, it made the story more fun. The cool thing was that > you > > actually > > learned something about medicine from watching the series. > > The third one broke all the records in Asia... Dae Jang-Geum, > > about a woman from humble beginnings who rose to become the King's > personal > > chef first > > and then the King's personal physician. It was done really well from a > > cinematic pov, > > drawing you into the characters' complex archetypes and changes. > > > > So, in the last decade, there's been a huge explosion of traditional > > medicine in Korea, > > which has concreted with a Confucian work ethic and the guilt of not > making > > your family > > and community happy if you don't succeed. My family thought that > > traditional medicine > > was low-class, until these TV dramas completely shifted the collective > > consciousness > > within this last decade. After that, the whole country was behind it. > > Korea, as a whole, > > has a very conservative element that loves tradition and order. Much of > > that comes from > > confucianism as well as a sense of suffering and survival from the time > of > > the annex by Japan > > in the 1890s, WW2, the Korean War and the constant struggle for > > re-unification. > > In these ways, the character of the Korean people is similar to many > Jewish > > people that I know. > > > > About treating the root, as well as the branch. Two of the major schools > > within TKM > > (Traditional Korean Medicine) have that as their starting point: > > Sa-am (4 needle technique), developed by a monk and based on 5 phasic > distal > > needling > > and Sa-sang, based on the patient's innate constitutional > characteristics, > > akin to dosha therapy in Ayurveda. > > > > Since Korea has been China's younger brother for at least the last 2200 > > years, > > there has been constant trade of ideas and human resources creating an > > expansive > > body of knowledge which was fortunately not destroyed by the Cultural > > Revolution in China. > > In essence, Korea has become a time-capsule that is now being opened to > the > > world. > > Similar to the islands of Taiwan and Japan, the major stumbling block or > > boon as one can see it, > > has been the influx of capitalism and cultural imperialism, which has > > changed the ingredients, > > but not the flavor of the medicine. > > > > Best to you, > > K > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:10 AM, @.. .>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kokko, > > > > > > You confirm what I have sensed. It's very strange, here in LA, we have > a > > > very large Korean community, perhaps one of the largest outside of > Korea, it > > > would seem to me, the largest Asian group here, more than the Chinese > as > > > well. Yet there is an insularity which I, as an outsider feel. Samra > has > > > given we the opportunity to be exposed to Korean medicine, really for > the > > > first time. Though I attended Dongguk Royal University (a Korean > school) > > > for my master's program, we in the English program were made to feel > like we > > > were neglected step-children, sort of a necessary formality to receive > > > accreditation. The quality of my education was, for the most part, very > > > mediocre. The school primarily catered to Koreans, but we had next to > > > nothing to do with them. I remember once, in my first year, asking if > there > > > were any exchange programs to study Korean medicine in Korea. I was > > > answered tersely--no, as if to suggest, " and don't even bother asking > > > again! " Here at Samra, though, the 6 Korean physicians in the Specialty > > > pain clinic are encouraged to speak about their methodologies and > actively > > > do speak to the DAOM residents. They are very knowledgeable and though > I > > > don't always agree with their approaches, I love the openness. > > > The problem I have with them, BTW, is that, as a pain clinic, they use > > > their approaches (such as the kinetic acupuncture) to primarily > > > treat symptoms, rather than root causes. One of the problems, of > course, is > > > that the clinic is very busy: It opened, just this last February, and > they > > > see well over 50 patients a day, and the number is growing. (And even > > > though, unfortunately, most are Korean, the English speaking Master's > > > interns and the physicians to address our questions). The approach > really > > > marries, as you imply, much more than do the Chinese, Oriental medical > > > philosophy and practice, with Western physical medicine. For example, > they > > > do alot of trigger point needling, using thick, deep needles, which > this > > > insert, stimulate, and then immediately take out, in order to relax > spasmed > > > muscles. But as I mentioned, the results are very impressive. The new > > > clinical residency is taking off as well: In addition to the > > > DAOM program, they are beginning a new full time PAID residency program > as > > > well. In the 2 year program, residents are paid $3000 per month, which > > > isn't bad at all, though they work hard and long hours, like 60 hours > per > > > week, plus being required to attend the didactic portion of the DAOM on > > > Fridays. But not only that, then after they complete the two years, > they > > > are guaranteed a six figure salary either working here or in one of a > few > > > satellite clinics they envision opening. The school and the clinic > > > administration have a vision, and I like it! > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, <johnkokko@. ..<johnkokko% 40gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > <johnkokko@. .. <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > <Traditional_ > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:02 AM > > > > > > Yehuda, > > > Yes.. there are great things coming out of Korea right now. There's a > lot > > > of dedicated study > > > (10+ years of schooling) where students at Kyung Hee University study > > > harder > > > than MD students. > > > From the Kyung Hee University blog, the students study six days / week > and > > > learn/study over 12 hours/ day. > > > Only those with the highest high-school completion exams can get into > Kyung > > > Hee. > > > It's harder than Seoul University, which in itself is harder to get > into > > > than Harvard. > > > So, only the cream of the crop of intellectuals can go to that school. > > > > > > There's also a lot of money invested in Asian medicine invested in > Korea. > > > If you graduate from Kyung Hee for instance, I've heard that you can > make > > > twice as much money as an MD. > > > So, ever since this last decade, many families want their children to > > > become > > > Asian medicine doctors > > > When they're in school, they learn both allopathic medicine as well as > > > traditional Korean/ Chinese medicine > > > and the schools have the money to get the latest medical technology as > > > well. > > > > > > I haven't visited Kyung-Hee, but a couple friends have. You can do > > > observation rounds. > > > It costs about $700/ week to watch. > > > > > > Their hard work is also an inspiration. > > > It makes me want to work harder, knowing that our medicine is such a > > > mystery > > > that requires mastery. > > > I know you feel the same way. > > > > > > Btw, about the warm waterfall feeling in the heel, a friend made a joke > and > > > called it, > > > " running piglet Qi of the heel " or we can just call it.. " running > piglet > > > heel " > > > > > > K > > > > > > On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, @.. > .>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > > > Here's the clinic site: http://www.samracli nic.com. The Samra > > > > administration is essentially all Korean, and from what I understand, > > > that's > > > > where the kinetic acupuncture comes from. (BTW, in the DAOM program > the > > > > professors come from diverse backgrounds- -eg. Beijing, Vietnam, and > of > > > > course, Seoul.) From what I have read and videos I've seen, they have > had > > > > enormous success with musculo-skeletal problems using it. (if I > remember > > > > correctly, you're Korean, right? If so, your might want to see the > Samra > > > > site in Korean, find out the original term that they translated as > > > " kinetic > > > > acupuncture " and do a google search on in there.) If the shooting > pain > > > > starts at around UB58, I think I would place needles at UB63, the > > > Xi-cleft > > > > point of the UB, as well as Lv 2 and Lv3, to unblock the Qi. There's > much > > > > more to it then just placing needles and having the patient move or > walk. > > > > For example, another thing they do, is place needles on Ah Shi > points, > > > > and immediately take them out, to " wake up " and relax muscles, and > then > > > go > > > > on to other points, the idea being to release one layer to get to the > > > next. > > > > It's interesting and different, I like it, and I'm learning alot. > > > > > > > > Getting back to your patient, like I said, I would definitely work > first > > > > and strengthening the Spleen, and then, slowly and carefully nourish > the > > > > blood--using herbs and of course acupuncture, and try to treat > according > > > to > > > > the four weeks of her menstrual cycle. > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% > 40gmail. > > > com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > > Re: warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > > <Traditional_ > > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > > Sunday, May 3, 2009, 6:52 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Yehuda, > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > > > > Actually, she usually does have short (3 days) and scanty periods > (blood > > > > xu) > > > > > > > > and there is underlying SP Qi xu as well (fatigue) > > > > So, that makes sense. This feeling began after her period, where Qi > and > > > > Blood is low. > > > > The occurrence was about 1 time/ day for a week. > > > > Now, she is ovulating and that warm water-fall sensation in her heel > is > > > > less > > > > frequent. > > > > > > > > Since she's a dancer, she's stomping on her heel continuously (3 x/ > > > week), > > > > but it's only the right heel which is feeling this sensation. > > > > It begins around UB 58 and radiates to the inside of the heel > > > > (around the extra point for the brain and insomnia - center of the > heel). > > > > She's sleeping fine and has no other complaints actually. > > > > > > > > The " Kinetic acupuncture " technique sounds interesting. Who was it > > > > developed by? > > > > Tung style acupuncture has this element in it as well for shoulder, > neck, > > > > back and foot pains, > > > > but I've never heard of walking around with LV 2 or 3 inside the foot > ! > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 1:53 AM, > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kokko, > > > > > > > > > > I have had a couple of similar patients, females, who were > athletes. My > > > > > read on cases like these is blood vacuity, precipitating qi and > blood > > > > > stagnation, in the area of their weakest anatomical link, meaning > that > > > > > which endures the most stimulation, and or trauma- the feet. A give > > > away > > > > in > > > > > my patients was very short and light menstrual periods. Initially, > when > > > I > > > > > gave herbs to tonify yin and blood, I found that there was also an > > > > > underlying Spleen Qi vacuity as well, as they each had loose bowel > > > > > movements. So I used herbs to strengthen the spleen and dry > dampness > > > > (BTW, > > > > > they each drank more water than was good for them, exacerbating the > > > > > problem), along with Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan to treat the wind-damp and > > > > nourish > > > > > the blood in the lower extemities. One other thing I have did was a > > > > > therapeutic application of acupuncture that I learned in the DAOM > > > program > > > > I > > > > > attend at Samra, what they call " Kinetic Acupuncture " . Palpate the > > > > > channels, to > > > > > determine where there might be stagnation or pain, needle one or > two > > > > points > > > > > on the foot of that channel, eg. if there is tenderness along the > liver > > > > > channel, you might consider needling Lv2 & Lv3, and then have the > > > patient > > > > > walk with the needle or needles in the foot, for 5-10 minutes up > and > > > down > > > > > the hall of your office. Though painful at first, after a couple of > > > > minutes > > > > > the pain should be gone, and when you take the needle out so should > be > > > > the > > > > > shooting sensation. The idea behind it is that by doing this, you > are > > > > > mechanically moving the qi and decongesting the channel. I have > seen > > > some > > > > > pretty amazing results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net > > > > > www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com<johnkokko% > > > 40gmail. > > > > com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com <johnkokko%40gmail. com>> > > > > > warm feeling shooting to the heel > > > > > <Traditional_ > > > > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > > > > > > > > Friday, May 1, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > I have a 33 yr old dancer patient who has a sudden warm waterfall > > > feeling > > > > > of > > > > > " energy " shooting down to her heel, > > > > > which comes on intermittently sitting or standing, only in this > past > > > > week. > > > > > The feeling is not painful, nor numb, just strange. > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, no other problems or pain. > > > > > I thought maybe a nerve at first.. L5 / S1, but no hua tuo jia ji > > > reflex, > > > > > no lower back pain, no hx of sciatica or piriformis sx. > > > > > > > > > > Her tongue is pale with a thin white coat. > > > > > Her pulse is string-taut in the left guan and thready in all other > > > > > positions. > > > > > > > > > > Any idea what this is from a TCM and Biomed diagnosis? > > > > > I remember hearing this as some sort of esoteric TCM diagnosis, but > > > don't > > > > > remember. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Turtle Island Integrative Health > > > > > www.turtleclinic. com > > > > > > > > > > TCM Review director > > > > > CA State Board Prep Courses > > > > > www.tcmreview. com > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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