RE: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

[Guest guest]

Yehuda and all,

I am unsure as to the why we would want to encourage substances that are

extremely toxic to our health to be included. In addition, many have a very

clouded past as far as really working. I really see little good support for it.

Petroleum based substances work against life and TCM is supportive of life.

Sometimes there is no middle of the road, I find this is true with many man-made

substances.

 

Michael W. Bowser, LAc

 

;

Chinese Traditional Medicine

 

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:52:20 -0700

Re: Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Phil,

 

 

 

I totally agree with you, but in my rush to finish posting late Friday afternoon

before it got to be too late (you see, I turn into a pumpkin every Friday at

Sunset), I left out one important point in my presentation--that I have no

problem using or combining western Meds as adjuncts to herbs and/or acupuncture,

but only if and when their properties (temperature, flavor and channel) are

indicated in treating the patient's pattern. When they are used from that

paradigm, I think that they can be very useful, potentially. What we must never

do, though, is use any medicine or therapy to suppress symptoms. Pain relief,

for example, is not necessarily synonymous with pain suppression. Dosage also,

as with Chinese medicine can make a tremendous difference in terms of a

harmonizing treatment. Micro-doses of NSAIDS or steroids, for example, might

have wonderful benefits when integrated into herbal formulas, but not without

adequate studies and

 

research.

 

 

 

Bottom line that I am suggesting, is that every medicinal substance should be

evaluated in terms of its actions, interactions, indication and

contraindications, specifically in conjunction with other herbs and substances,

(and not just Chinese herbs, mind you!) just as Chinese medicine rarely uses

single substances as formulas. I can see some of our more traditionalists

cringing, but just as over the centuries, new substances from thousands of miles

away, have been introduced to the Chinese pharmacopoeia, why shouldn't Western

medicinals be viewed the same way?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Sat, 4/25/09, < wrote:

 

 

 

<

 

Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

 

 

Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:34 PM

 

 

 

Hi Yehuda & All,

 

 

 

Yehuda wrote:

 

> I believe that we need to make a clear distinction between combining

 

> two modalities and integrating western biomedical substances into the

 

> Chinese medical model. ... The question really is one of the model we

 

> use for diagnosis and treatment of our patients- -do we treat symptoms

 

> and needle local points to ameliorate pain or discomfort, or do we

 

> treat based upon the patient's differential diagnosis, constitution and

 

> history. The former is pure bio-medicine, which I contend in years to

 

> come will be viewed as a dinosaur--an extinct remnant of an ignorant

 

> past ... Getting back to the original question, this is the same

 

> problem with combining Chinese medicine or acupuncture with

 

> Western medicine. If we are using any medicine to treat sympoms, we

 

> are not treating the whole person, and usually the " whole person " will

 

> not get well. ...We are the torchbearers of a wonderful medicine. Let

 

> us not lower ourselves to using our tools wrongly, for using a

 

> sophisticated electronic devise as a hammer.

 

 

 

Yehuda, I see no essential conflict in combining acupuncture and most

 

(at least the safer) western medicines, especially if the acupuncture

 

ALONE has not solved the problem.

 

 

 

One CAN select relevant acupoints to treat both Root and Branch. If

 

that does not produce rapid and good clinical results, one can ADD

 

other modalities - rubs, homeopathy, NSAIDs, steroids, antibiotics -

 

as needed.

 

 

 

Am I wrong?

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I firmly believe, Mike, that as far as any creation, be it of G-d or man, there

are no absolutes, and that every substance has relative value.  Just as with

herbs, or minerals, there are extremely toxic substances, which nonetheless do

have clinical applications, albeit in micro-doses (perhaps even homeopathic

dilutions?), so too, there can be potential benefit (without harm!)

of pharmaceuticals.  The key must be though extensive studies with adequate

evaluation of different effects with different dosages, as well as the

interactive chemistry, in-vitro as well as in-vivo, of these substances together

with herbs. 

 

But, that being said, the other key must be promoting balance and building up

the internal milieu with proper nutrition, exercise, air, sleep and joy.  Our

goal should be to have our medicine and all medicine, for that matter,

obsolete.  If our patients are in balance, then they won't need medicine will

they?  But if they are out of balance, then we need to use  everything at our

disposal  to maximize our potential to put them in balance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

 

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

RE: Re: Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

Chinese Traditional Medicine ,

 

Sunday, April 26, 2009, 1:32 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda and all,

I am unsure as to the why we would want to encourage substances that are

extremely toxic to our health to be included. In addition, many have a very

clouded past as far as really working. I really see little good support for it.

Petroleum based substances work against life and TCM is supportive of life.

Sometimes there is no middle of the road, I find this is true with many man-made

substances.

 

Michael W. Bowser, LAc

 

; traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

 

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:52:20 -0700

Re: Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

Dear Phil,

 

I totally agree with you, but in my rush to finish posting late Friday afternoon

before it got to be too late (you see, I turn into a pumpkin every Friday at

Sunset), I left out one important point in my presentation- -that I have no

problem using or combining western Meds as adjuncts to herbs and/or acupuncture,

but only if and when their properties (temperature, flavor and channel) are

indicated in treating the patient's pattern. When they are used from that

paradigm, I think that they can be very useful, potentially. What we must never

do, though, is use any medicine or therapy to suppress symptoms. Pain relief,

for example, is not necessarily synonymous with pain suppression. Dosage also,

as with Chinese medicine can make a tremendous difference in terms of a

harmonizing treatment. Micro-doses of NSAIDS or steroids, for example, might

have wonderful benefits when integrated into herbal formulas, but not without

adequate studies and

 

research.

 

Bottom line that I am suggesting, is that every medicinal substance should be

evaluated in terms of its actions, interactions, indication and

contraindications, specifically in conjunction with other herbs and substances,

(and not just Chinese herbs, mind you!) just as Chinese medicine rarely uses

single substances as formulas. I can see some of our more traditionalists

cringing, but just as over the centuries, new substances from thousands of miles

away, have been introduced to the Chinese pharmacopoeia, why shouldn't Western

medicinals be viewed the same way?

 

 

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

 

--- On Sat, 4/25/09, < (AT) tinet (DOT) ie> wrote:

 

< (AT) tinet (DOT) ie>

 

Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

 

 

Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:34 PM

 

Hi Yehuda & All,

 

Yehuda wrote:

 

> I believe that we need to make a clear distinction between combining

 

> two modalities and integrating western biomedical substances into the

 

> Chinese medical model. ... The question really is one of the model we

 

> use for diagnosis and treatment of our patients- -do we treat symptoms

 

> and needle local points to ameliorate pain or discomfort, or do we

 

> treat based upon the patient's differential diagnosis, constitution and

 

> history. The former is pure bio-medicine, which I contend in years to

 

> come will be viewed as a dinosaur--an extinct remnant of an ignorant

 

> past ... Getting back to the original question, this is the same

 

> problem with combining Chinese medicine or acupuncture with

 

> Western medicine. If we are using any medicine to treat sympoms, we

 

> are not treating the whole person, and usually the " whole person " will

 

> not get well. ...We are the torchbearers of a wonderful medicine. Let

 

> us not lower ourselves to using our tools wrongly, for using a

 

> sophisticated electronic devise as a hammer.

 

Yehuda, I see no essential conflict in combining acupuncture and most

 

(at least the safer) western medicines, especially if the acupuncture

 

ALONE has not solved the problem.

 

One CAN select relevant acupoints to treat both Root and Branch. If

 

that does not produce rapid and good clinical results, one can ADD

 

other modalities - rubs, homeopathy, NSAIDs, steroids, antibiotics -

 

as needed.

 

Am I wrong?

 

Best regards,