balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

[Guest guest]

Dear Genevieve,

 

I admire your composure, bravery and objectivity.  May you always be blessed

with much pleasure from your children and continue to have the strength to be an

articulate advocate on their behalf when you need to.  The awareness of balance

and the parallels  in our  terrain/environment  both on a macro and micro

perspective I find fascinating.  I believe that we always need to consider two

aspects: working to eliminate irritants, toxins and parasites, and, as much as

possible strengthening the integrity of the interior.  In other words, release

the exterior and balance the Wei and Ying.

 

here's to a toxin free environment!

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, Genevieve Le Goff <mellowmoonherbs wrote:

 

 

Genevieve Le Goff <mellowmoonherbs

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 4:52 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Yehuda and all,

I have two children whom i did not get vaccinated either.

My first decision was based on the recommendations of my first daughter's

neonatologist at the Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital NICU, after she suffered a

stroke at the time of her birth. He was the first one to tell us that the

incidence of severe side-effects (autism, infarction through disturbance of the

clotting mechanisms, brain damage undifferentiated)  from vaccines -particularly

Pertusis- is much greater in individuals that have suffered neurological damage

( in the order of 20 to 100x more frequent, depending on the vaccine).

 

       Now when your newborn baby has lost 2/3 of her left brain, it is pretty

easy risk assessment that leads to the decision not vaccinate... any more

neurological damage would have been devastating.

 

       After that i researched the issue more, and found lots of concurring data

(it's been 8 yrs now so i unfortunately can't remember exactly where... though

some i think was from the AMA.) I read some of the books you cited; they contain

good ideas but i would definitely need to play devil's advocate and say some of

his reasoning can be argued ... but i like you cringe at the idea of foreign

proteins injected into perfect newborns... unless there is good medical reason.

 

  Pasteur's idea about the terrain is i think well in line with the Chinese

Medical Classics and their depiction of the intricate relationships betwen

people and environment that lead to the manifestation of disease. To this (which

requires a strong Wei Qi and clement conditions that unfortunately do not always

exist) i would also add an evaluation of risk factors: what are the chances of a

newborn contracting a bloodborne/sexually transmitted disease like Hep.B???

Vaccinating in teenage years when the body is stronger and the risk is higher

would seem more appropriate, unless there was a direct rik of contamination in

the infant's environment. Diphteria and polio (though polio is sl. more

prevalent now than it was 10 yrs ago) are rare incidences which are mostly

averted by good sanitation. Measles mostly present a threat for males; vaccines

that protect against benign, normal infantile diseases such as chicken pox are

simply an aberration that only

serves to weaken the collective human immune system.

 

          This being said... there is a time and place for vaccinations i

believe, as we are not all always in perfect alignment between Heaven and Earth

(not to start an philosophical debate!) ... If i were to travel to places where

polio is more prevalent i would vaccinate... I am myself happy to be immune to

Hep.B given the risk factors of the profession.. . and each year i tremble when

there are 8 cases or so of pertusis in my town. The real issue is that medical

profession suffers from a lack of case by case differential evaluation, and has

fallen prey to massive generalization. There also seems to be a lack of

education in Medical Schools about vaccines. In the case of my older daughter

most pediatricians simply were unaware of the increased risks for neurological

patients and wanted to proceed anyway, while we got a very strong veto against

vaccination from neurologists, hematologist and neonatologist alike.

    Well that's my two cents on our journey... sorry so long

 

Genevieve.

 

 

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, < > wrote:

 

< >

Influences in our decision not to vaccinate

" TCM " <traditional_ chinese_medicine >

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 2:33 PM

 

Dear colleagues,

 

I was asked to give references and influences for my decision.  Here's my

response:

 

 

 

" Remember, this goes back 25 years, but I'll give you some resources that I have

and can think of:

 

1. One of my greatest influences  has been Dr. Robert Mendelsohn.  Bob  was a

wonderful, dynamic pediatrician from Chicago who called himself " The medical

heretic " and " The people's doctor, "   He wrote extensively in favor of educating

and empowering the public against the smear tactics of the medical hierarchy. 

He was a university professor, chairman of the Medical Licensure Committee for

the state of Illinois, and a brilliant, quick- witted  scholar, who was

COMPLETELY on the side of the patient.   Bob wrote at least  4 books that I know

of: 

 

  " Confessions  of a Medical Heretic " ,  

"  MALePRACTICE,  How Doctors Manipulate Women, "  

" How To Raise a Healthy Child (in Spite of Your Doctor), " and

" But Doctor, About That Shot: The Risks of Immunization and How to Avoid Them. "

 

Here are some notable quotes of his:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

 

2. I have somewhere, a very well written 25 page pamphlet by Robert Moskowitz,

MD entitled:The Case Against Immunizations, which presents in a very scholarly

and yet readable manner the bio-chemistry and physiology of the immune system,

and how vaccinations  affect it.

 

3.  A Shot in the Dark, by Harris Coulter and Barbara Fisher. which specifically

addresses the dangers of the pertusses vaccine.

 

I have other books someone in bookshelves and/or closets, some good, and some of

questionable value, but the internet has really opened things up, and if on is

motivated, there is lots of objective information from which to slowly and

thoughtfully come to a prudent decision.

 

One last person I want to mention is our son's pediatrician, who was also a

close friend of Dr. Mendelsohn, OBM, and an amazing, totally objective, high

soul, Dr. Paul Fleiss.  (Our son used to say, " It rhymes, Dr. Fleiss is nice! " ) 

Dr. Fleiss gave us lot of time and information, and was never pushy nor

dogmatic.  He left the decision totally to us.  BTW, as far as I know, he still

is in practice in Los Angeles. 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda L. Frischman,

L.Ac, CST, SER

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, joe crowley <imcrowley > wrote:

 

joe crowley <imcrowley >

Fw: Re: Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for

diabetics?-r

 

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 12:34 PM

 

Hi Yehuda, this was interesting. 

Do you have any books that you could point me to about vaccinations?

Is there one that might be considered " the bible " when it comes to vaccinations?

 

Thanks

Joe

 

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, > wrote:

 

>

Re: Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for diabetics?-r

 

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 3:12 PM

 

Sorry, my send button decided to send before I was ready:  Here is the complete,

edited version!

 

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, > wrote:

 

>

Re: Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for diabetics?

 

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 12:04 PM

 

Alon,

 

I think that you are making a gross generalization, as do those who claim that

all autoimmune diseases and diseases of civilization  result  from or have a

relationship to vaccinations.  It is a cost to benefit analysis that each parent

needs to make in determining whether they want to take the risk of exposing

their children to the toxins and potential trauma related to vaccinations.  It

is completely innapropriate to expose a small baby whose immune function is just

beginning to develop to the very harsh constituents of vaccines.  Once a child

hits 5 years old, and is healthy, then the decision do vaccinate becomes an

easier one.  But the witchhunt that Western biomedical physicians, along with

their stooges in government and the school systems have carried on against

parents choosing not to vaccinate is criminal, as far as I am concerned.  The

studies showing that vaccines are not related to auto-immune function are flAwed

and no more valid

than saying that a particular herb or acupuncture point works or doesn't work to

treat headaches or gout.  For a study to be valid, ALL of the subjects need to

have the same differential diagnosis, similar constitutions and preferably also

be within the same age group.  It isn't enough to have the studies just placebo

controlled and double blind. 

 

Personally, neither  my baby who is now 25 years old, nor  my grandson who will

be 1 next month have been vaccinated.  Our choice, again, was based upon a cost

to benefit ratio, and my intuition.  Just the thought of injecting putrid

proteins preserved with mercury into the vascular system makes me cringe. 

Again, as I have stated on more than one occasion.  Pasteur, at the end of his

life acknowledged that Bechamp was right:  that it is the terrain and not the

microbe which causes illness. 

 

That's my conclusion.  I certainly don't have an agenda but encourage parents to

make decisions in an unbiased and informed way, as much as possible. Most

important:  BEWARE OF HYPERBOLE AND SENSATIONALISM.   Keep your cool and don't

rush your decison.  Rely on intuition and listen to your  inner voice of

wisdom.        

 

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus@ wans. net> wrote:

 

alon marcus <alonmarcus@ wans. net>

Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for diabetics?

 

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 11:34 AM

 

why is diabetes and most other disease we see today mentioned in

chinese and other medical system way before vaccinations. Please

vaccinations seem to be blamed way too often with such poor evidence

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda

You have not heard me say vaccinations should be used on everyone or anything of

the sort. In that post i was simply making the point that many of these diseases

existed long before vaccination. You find them in people that have never been

vaccinated. Many of the anti-vaccination activists make it sounds like the

evidence is clear, by ignoring and playing with evidence to make their point.

The issue is not clear. There are many issues that still need to be answered and

i agree for example giving an infant hep-B just because you think you may loose

the chance later is a bit radical. Its also not casually transmitted. Examples

like your kids make little sense. First not being vaccinated in a sea of

vaccinated kids reduces one' chance greatly. Second all medical intervention are

a statistical roulette. Maybe they would have never gotten sick even within a

true outbreak, maybe they would have had the worse case and died. There are

thousands of medical scientists all over the world that have compassion, no real

financial steak and study vaccinations closely. For example, Kaiser did a large

internal review the data a year or two ago, and it would be much cheeper for

them not to vaccinate, but found the fears promoted in this and other forums to

not be valid. They had experts go through the entire data out there. So while i

know it is easy to blow the fires of fear, is impossible to prove a negative,

and easy to FEEL like " modern technologies " are terrible i would point out that

we advocate many therapies, daily, that we have NO safety data on. We just FEEL

they are safe because they jive with our belief systems. A more balanced

assessment of evidence is all that i am calling for. You think the makers of

Prozac would give such a high dose F in each pill if it was bioavailable. That

would have resulted in a huge loss of money to one of the most utilized drugs in

history were huge amount of safety data exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Alon,

 

 

 

 

Examples like your kids make little sense. First not being vaccinated in a sea

of vaccinated kids reduces one' chance greatly. Second all medical intervention

are a statistical roulette. Maybe they would have never gotten sick even within

a true outbreak, maybe they would have had the worse case and died. There are

thousands of medical scientists all over the world that have compassion, no real

financial steak and study vaccinations closely.

 

 

 

Contrary to what you may believe, this issue is not an emotional one, it is one

of efficacy, as well as potential cost to benefit.    Why is the transmission of

disease a crapshoot?  We have an enormous impact on our ability to prevent

disease, and not just because of hygiene.  Should our food not also be our

medicine?  What about quality of sleep?  What about the sense of joy and

happiness that aware and sensitive parents provide for their children. All these

things and more provide  enormous additional  " immunity " for children.  Is it

logical to " mainline "  past the body's natural barriers putrid proteins, mercury,

formaldehyde and other poisons?  Isn't that Russian roulette?  Should one expose

to their otherwise healthy children to a small dose of diet coke or french fries

or ice cream, so their body will be used to junk food when exposed to it?  How

about arsenic or anthrax?  I find this logic completely absurd.   Again, as

I wrote earlier, there two ways to view immunity:  do we build the patient

up, or do we challenge  their immunity.  I believe that our wise Creator has

given us both capabilities.  But I  believe that it is folly to deliberately

rely on the second.  Instead it is a fallback, a defense mechanism.  Now the

question is how can you stimulate those defenses without causing harm.  That is

the challenge that we are discussing.  And if there is a chance of causing

harm, potentially serious or lifelong harm, in my mind it is not worth the

risk.  Furthermore, how are we to measure how the immune system has been

compromised by vaccinations? To what degree?  Maybe, luckily, a child will not

become autistic or later on in life be vulnerable to auto-immune disease.  But

who is to say that after vaccinations, a top student suddenly became mediocre

because of the shot?  Or a flamboyant bubbly child suddenly became sullen and

withdrawn?  Or a kid who never got sick, now gets colds every time someone

sneezes within 50 foot of him.  These possibilities are very real, when exposed

to toxins.   Personally, I am very careful with what I eat, and what I am

exposed to.  But if I happen to eat junk  or walk in a store with a strong smell

of formaldehyde, it knocks me out.  I'm a healthy guy, with a strong immune

system.  I rarely get sick.  But I can't handle these things?  Am I so unique? 

I don't think so.    

 

 .  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

 

 

[Guest guest]

'sense of joy '...  there is the clue and the key.

 

--- On Mon, 4/27/09, wrote:

 

 

Re: Re:balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Medicine

Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:22 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Alon,

 

 

 

 

 

Examples like your kids make little sense. First not being vaccinated in a sea

of vaccinated kids reduces one' chance greatly. Second all medical intervention

are a statistical roulette. Maybe they would have never gotten sick even within

a true outbreak, maybe they would have had the worse case and died. There are

thousands of medical scientists all over the world that have compassion, no real

financial steak and study vaccinations closely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contrary to what you may believe, this issue is not an emotional one, it is one

of efficacy, as well as potential cost to benefit.    Why is the transmission of

disease a crapshoot?  We have an enormous impact on our ability to prevent

disease, and not just because of hygiene.  Should our food not also be our

medicine?  What about quality of sleep?  What about the sense of joy and

happiness that aware and sensitive parents provide for their children. All these

things and more provide  enormous additional  " immunity " for children.  Is it

logical to " mainline "  past the body's natural barriers putrid proteins, mercury,

formaldehyde and other poisons?  Isn't that Russian roulette?  Should one expose

to their otherwise healthy children to a small dose of diet coke or french fries

or ice cream, so their body will be used to junk food when exposed to it?  How

about arsenic or anthrax?  I find this logic completely absurd.   Again, as

 

I wrote earlier, there two ways to view immunity:   do we build the patient

up, or do we challenge  their immunity.  I believe that our wise Creator has

given us both capabilities.  But I  believe that it is folly to deliberately

rely on the second.  Instead it is a fallback, a defense mechanism.  Now the

question is how can you stimulate those defenses without causing harm.  That is

the challenge that we are discussing.  And if there is a chance of causing

harm, potentially serious or lifelong harm, in my mind it is not worth the

risk.  Furthermore, how are we to measure how the immune system has been

compromised by vaccinations? To what degree?  Maybe,  luckily, a child will not

become autistic or later on in life be vulnerable to auto-immune disease.  But

who is to say that after vaccinations, a top student suddenly became mediocre

because of the shot?  Or a flamboyant bubbly child suddenly became sullen and

 

withdrawn?  Or a kid who never got sick, now gets colds every time someone

sneezes within 50 foot of him.  These possibilities are very real, when exposed

to toxins.   Personally, I am very careful with what I eat, and what I am

exposed to.  But if I happen to eat junk  or walk in a store with a strong smell

of formaldehyde, it knocks me out.  I'm a healthy guy, with a strong immune

system.  I rarely get sick.  But I can't handle these things?  Am I so unique? 

I don't think so.    

 

 

 

 .  

 

 

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda

How do you explain anyone suddenly getting sick in general? Why do

some kids that have never been vaccinated suddenly get sick? What will

the situation be without vaccinations? While you my believe you have

answers to such questions i do not. Does it make sense to practice

preventable med, i think yes. Do vaccines play a role i do not know

but neither anyone on this list regardless of high emotionality.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Of course the questions are compelling, and the answers unclear.  Human nature 

always tends to vent frustration out of uncertainty. Until such a time as tools

are available to determine the impact of vaccinations on the immune system both

in the short and long term, and their impact on DNA, we remain in the dark in a

state of uncertainty.  Do people seem to suddenly get sick?  maybe. But maybe

also, their immune system was already compromised by the burden of travel, or

inadequate sleep, or bad food or other stresses. The stresses that we

place ourselves under are completely unnatural, in terms of our biorhythms, our

diet, and our exposure to environmental toxins.  By the same token, we humans

have demonstrated an amazing resiliancy, versatility and adaptability in order

to survive.  Someone living into their 80s is the norm, and not the exception

anymore.  But how is the quality of their lives?  How many seniors are really

healthy

inside and out, mind and body?    Maybe someday we will all have a tool to

measure our wellness quotient quantitatively, just as a diabetic can measure his

glucose levels.  But right now we walk around in relative darkness.  May we

deduce that epidemic illness has been lessened by vaccines?  That argument can

be made. But at what price?   But what about the serious questions regarding

those vaccines?  What about their extreme toxicity, and their impact on DNA,

perhaps permanently?   Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children

while waiting till their own children are older, say 5 years old?  I find that

deplorable, even conspiratorial!  Why hasn't the same effort that has gone into

producing alternative energy sources to fossil fuels gone into alternative

methods of introducing immunity?  The answer is obvious?  Money!   With all the

above stress we are under and all the so-called medical advances one would

think that this same effort would also go into the science of nutrition, its

impact on illness, and the dissemination of warnings of the harm that denatured,

chemical laden additives have on our health, just as billions have gone into

creating a smoke-free world.  Nope?  instead MacDonalds, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell,

and all the others flourish and we are the fattest, most unhealthy society in

the history of the world.  What's wrong with this picture?  Is the solution to

take more intrusive medicine to cover up the body's expression of inability to

cope?  That's what Western biomedicine does.  How many of us drink soda and

eat unheatlhy pastry?  I don't, but I know some of you in our group do!   Where

is our leadership?    Back 20-30 years ago there was a valiant effort to promote

prevention, but, in retrospect, even though well intentioned, was predicated on

flaws.  Everybody was jogging, remember?  But the incidences of heart

disease, cancer and auto-immunity didn't go down.  You know why not?  Because

nothing was done to retrain people how to cope with stress and how to live and

 eat properly.  Cholesterol was and still is the villain of cardiologists and

not free radical damage and homocysteine.  Until the mentality of America and

the rest of the Western world changes, until people learn to respect their

bodies, their minds, their emotions and yes, their spirits, with how they

conduct themselves, how they eat, how they relate to others and demonstrate how

they care about others...until people learn to be happy with what they have,

their bodies will rebel and they will elicit symptoms of illness and

imbalance.   Again, the decision to vaccinate also fits into this equation,

and if a child is too young (I would use age 5 as a mean age), or has been under

any stress, I would not vaccinate.  I think that a prudent first step might be

to develop a

screening questionaire to determine if a particular child has a greater risk

 of being vulnerable to side effects.  It would be easy and cheap.  But has any

effort gone into considering that as a tool.  Not that I know of.  Because there

are more questions than answers, when in doubt, I take the approach of our

sages  " shev v'al ta'ase " ,  keep the status quo and don't intervene unless the

reason to intervene is compelling enough. I don't think it is.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 4/28/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

 

 

alon marcus <alonmarcus

Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 8:17 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda

How do you explain anyone suddenly getting sick in general? Why do

some kids that have never been vaccinated suddenly get sick? What will

the situation be without vaccinations? While you my believe you have

answers to such questions i do not. Does it make sense to practice

preventable med, i think yes. Do vaccines play a role i do not know

but neither anyone on this list regardless of high emotionality.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda,It is my understanding that the cleaner the internal environment the more

reactive your body is to foreign toxins. I have been aware of many substances

like pollen, dust, foods, etc that when eaten tend to make me feel unwell.

Sometimes there are additional symptoms like sneezing, mucus or headaches. Yet,

I feel that I would be going backward in time, when I was more miserable and

more toxic, if I were to continue these poor habits. I do sometimes cheat and

am rewarded with symptoms for it.

 

Michael W. Bowser, LAc

 

 

 

www.minneapolisacupuncture.net

This email message is intended only for the personal use of the above named

recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, copy or

forward this email message. If you have received this communication in error,

please notify the sender immediately via email or phone and delete the message

accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

 

Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:22:31 -0700

Re: Re:balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Alon,

 

 

 

 

 

Examples like your kids make little sense. First not being vaccinated in a sea

of vaccinated kids reduces one' chance greatly. Second all medical intervention

are a statistical roulette. Maybe they would have never gotten sick even within

a true outbreak, maybe they would have had the worse case and died. There are

thousands of medical scientists all over the world that have compassion, no real

financial steak and study vaccinations closely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contrary to what you may believe, this issue is not an emotional one, it is one

of efficacy, as well as potential cost to benefit. Why is the transmission of

disease a crapshoot? We have an enormous impact on our ability to prevent

disease, and not just because of hygiene. Should our food not also be our

medicine? What about quality of sleep? What about the sense of joy and

happiness that aware and sensitive parents provide for their children. All these

things and more provide enormous additional " immunity " for children. Is it

logical to " mainline " past the body's natural barriers putrid proteins, mercury,

formaldehyde and other poisons? Isn't that Russian roulette? Should one expose

to their otherwise healthy children to a small dose of diet coke or french fries

or ice cream, so their body will be used to junk food when exposed to it? How

about arsenic or anthrax? I find this logic completely absurd. Again, as

 

I wrote earlier, there two ways to view immunity: do we build the patient up,

or do we challenge their immunity. I believe that our wise Creator has given

us both capabilities. But I believe that it is folly to deliberately rely on

the second. Instead it is a fallback, a defense mechanism. Now the question is

how can you stimulate those defenses without causing harm. That is the

challenge that we are discussing. And if there is a chance of causing harm,

potentially serious or lifelong harm, in my mind it is not worth the risk.

Furthermore, how are we to measure how the immune system has been compromised by

vaccinations? To what degree? Maybe, luckily, a child will not become autistic

or later on in life be vulnerable to auto-immune disease. But who is to say

that after vaccinations, a top student suddenly became mediocre because of the

shot? Or a flamboyant bubbly child suddenly became sullen and

 

withdrawn? Or a kid who never got sick, now gets colds every time someone

sneezes within 50 foot of him. These possibilities are very real, when exposed

to toxins. Personally, I am very careful with what I eat, and what I am

exposed to. But if I happen to eat junk or walk in a store with a strong smell

of formaldehyde, it knocks me out. I'm a healthy guy, with a strong immune

system. I rarely get sick. But I can't handle these things? Am I so unique?

I don't think so.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I would add one more important point, Mike:  There is good stress and bad

stress.  When a person lives and idyllic like without any challenges, then I

believe he is more vulnerable to toxicity and pollution.  However, good stress,

stimulating our adrenals by doing good things, like exercise, sports, sex,

engaging in stimulating discussion, intense studying which one finds enjoyable

or even prayer or meditation, I think does just the opposite, and strengthens

out wei and jing, sort of like flexing and building up muscles relative to the

stimulation and  balance of the sympathetic and parasympathetic branches  of our

autonomic nervous systems.  In Judaism, the talmud makes a remarkable statement

validating that idea, " When I created the inclination to do evil, I created a

spice with which to season the Torah. "

 

Got to run, a patient awaits,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 4/28/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

 

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

RE: Re:balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 12:34 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,It is my understanding that the cleaner the internal environment the more

reactive your body is to foreign toxins. I have been aware of many substances

like pollen, dust, foods, etc that when eaten tend to make me feel unwell.

Sometimes there are additional symptoms like sneezing, mucus or headaches. Yet,

I feel that I would be going backward in time, when I was more miserable and

more toxic, if I were to continue these poor habits. I do sometimes cheat and am

rewarded with symptoms for it.

 

Michael W. Bowser, LAc

 

www.minneapolisacup uncture.net

This email message is intended only for the personal use of the above named

recipient(s) . If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, copy

or forward this email message. If you have received this communication in error,

please notify the sender immediately via email or phone and delete the message

accordingly.

 

 

 

Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:22:31 -0700

Re: Re:balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

 

Dear Alon,

 

Examples like your kids make little sense. First not being vaccinated in a sea

of vaccinated kids reduces one' chance greatly. Second all medical intervention

are a statistical roulette. Maybe they would have never gotten sick even within

a true outbreak, maybe they would have had the worse case and died. There are

thousands of medical scientists all over the world that have compassion, no real

financial steak and study vaccinations closely.

 

Contrary to what you may believe, this issue is not an emotional one, it is one

of efficacy, as well as potential cost to benefit. Why is the transmission of

disease a crapshoot? We have an enormous impact on our ability to prevent

disease, and not just because of hygiene. Should our food not also be our

medicine? What about quality of sleep? What about the sense of joy and happiness

that aware and sensitive parents provide for their children. All these things

and more provide enormous additional " immunity " for children. Is it logical to

" mainline " past the body's natural barriers putrid proteins, mercury,

formaldehyde and other poisons? Isn't that Russian roulette? Should one expose

to their otherwise healthy children to a small dose of diet coke or french fries

or ice cream, so their body will be used to junk food when exposed to it? How

about arsenic or anthrax? I find this logic completely absurd. Again, as

 

I wrote earlier, there two ways to view immunity: do we build the patient up, or

do we challenge their immunity. I believe that our wise Creator has given us

both capabilities. But I believe that it is folly to deliberately rely on the

second. Instead it is a fallback, a defense mechanism. Now the question is how

can you stimulate those defenses without causing harm. That is the challenge

that we are discussing. And if there is a chance of causing harm, potentially

serious or lifelong harm, in my mind it is not worth the risk. Furthermore, how

are we to measure how the immune system has been compromised by vaccinations? To

what degree? Maybe, luckily, a child will not become autistic or later on in

life be vulnerable to auto-immune disease. But who is to say that after

vaccinations, a top student suddenly became mediocre because of the shot? Or a

flamboyant bubbly child suddenly became sullen and

 

withdrawn? Or a kid who never got sick, now gets colds every time someone

sneezes within 50 foot of him. These possibilities are very real, when exposed

to toxins. Personally, I am very careful with what I eat, and what I am exposed

to. But if I happen to eat junk or walk in a store with a strong smell of

formaldehyde, it knocks me out. I'm a healthy guy, with a strong immune system.

I rarely get sick. But I can't handle these things? Am I so unique? I don't

think so.

 

..

 

 

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda

" Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

 

This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

(5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

difference, no. We do not know about many.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Interesting to this discussion, the topic explored on the TV show Law & Order

last night, was vaccination of children.  In the show, one mom refused to

vaccinate her child, who caught measles and passed it on to another child, who

died.  The parents of the child who died sued the other mom - the question on

the show was whether the mom who did not vaccinate her child was legally

responsible for the death of the child who died, for refusing to participate in

" protecting the public " by having her child vaccinated.

 

It may very well be that, in addition to considering the health benefits of

avoiding vaccines for our families, we may also be seeing these kinds of

lawsuits pop up around this issue.  Do homeopathic vaccines offer the same

protection to the public that medical vaccines claim to offer?

 

Andrea Beth

 

Traditional Oriental Medicine

Happy Hours in the CALM Center

635 S. 10th St.

Cottonwood, AZ  86326

(928) 274-1373

 

 

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

 

alon marcus <alonmarcus

Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:07 AM

 

Yehuda

" Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting 

till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

 

This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence 

(5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves 

90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in 

general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I 

wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of 

it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old. 

She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a 

healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed 

every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of 

which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only 

probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we 

would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense, 

absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a 

difference, no. We do not know about many.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am curious about the homeopathic vaccines. How are we able to tell

if they are effective, without exposing the individual to the disease

and seeing if they get it? Can you do titre tests to see if the

antibodies are present, or is there another way?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:36 AM, < wrote:

>

>

> Interesting to this discussion, the topic explored on the TV show Law &

> Order last night, was vaccination of children.  In the show, one mom refused

> to vaccinate her child, who caught measles and passed it on to another

> child, who died.  The parents of the child who died sued the other mom - the

> question on the show was whether the mom who did not vaccinate her child was

> legally responsible for the death of the child who died, for refusing to

> participate in " protecting the public " by having her child vaccinated.

>

> It may very well be that, in addition to considering the health benefits of

> avoiding vaccines for our families, we may also be seeing these kinds of

> lawsuits pop up around this issue.  Do homeopathic vaccines offer the same

> protection to the public that medical vaccines claim to offer?

>

> Andrea Beth

>

> Traditional Oriental Medicine

> Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> 635 S. 10th St.

> Cottonwood, AZ  86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> --- On Wed, 4/29/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

>

> alon marcus <alonmarcus

> Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

> Chinese Medicine

> Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:07 AM

>

> Yehuda

> " Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

> till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

>

> This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

> (5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

> 90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

> general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

> wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

> it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

> My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

> She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

> healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

> every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

> which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

> probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

> would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

> absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

> difference, no. We do not know about many.

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

>

> alonmarcus

>

>

[Guest guest]

Alon,

 

I validate you contention that  to consider vaccinating is a position worth

considering (though I have given you the reasons why I choose not to).  But the

key point, and the one you quote from me is the age of the child.   I would

contend that the likelihood of side effects and long term repercussions is far

greater up to age 5, and I have seen articles and studies that many  physicians

agree that to delay is prudent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

 

 

alon marcus <alonmarcus

Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:07 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda

" Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

 

This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

(5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

difference, no. We do not know about many.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have been following this issue carefully over the last several days

on this list, and have refrained from my own comments because of the

extreme complexity and emotional issues associated with vaccination.

 

There are a number of factors that make it difficult to be conclusive.

 

1) Medicine in developed countries is as much a business as a public

service. While vaccines can save lives from epidemics, there is also

a profit motive and vested interests in the pharmaceutical industry at

work. Therefore, more vaccines, more profits. As in many other

services provided in developed countries, such as media, banking,

insurance and food chains, profit may outweigh overall benefits over

time, and lead to monopolization of resources involving government

regulations.

 

2) Therefore, the most developed countries, such as the USA, have a

wider variety of vaccinations required than any other, even for such

conditions as chicken pox. In my opinion, it is this over-vaccination

that is most dangerous.

 

3) We do not know the long-term effects of such multiple vaccines on

children in terms of the immune system and overall health. Like many

other biomedical interventions, we may learn in the long run that

vaccinations may be dangerous when administered as combination

vaccines, in intensive schedules.

 

4) What society would even allow intensive studies of homeopathic

vaccines? There are too many vested interests already opposing

homeopathy. What impartial studies could be implemented?

 

5) It is a major responsibility not to vaccinate, and I only feel

that people who are willing to take full responsibility for their own

and their children's health through education and lifestyle should

consider it. There is also a major breadth of scope between choosing

to do all vaccinations and choosing those that appear more essential.

 

6) There is a major conflict between the right of individuals to

choose what to put into their bodies and bloodstreams and society's

institutions forcing this on them. I wonder if we are compromising

our basic freedoms in this regard.

 

7)Vaccinations, interestingly enough, were invented by the Chinese,

not Jenner. However, they were not injected directly into the

bloodstream, but through the nose (powdered) or scratching the skin.

I think this may be a topic we wish to discuss, in other words, new

developments in food-based or inhaled vaccines, that may be less

damaging to the immune system in the long run than direct injection.

 

8) As usual, we have not really invoked discussion on what our own

medical tradition, Chinese medicine, has to say about this issue,

about immunity, about epidemics, about source texts. The Chinese

struggled for centuries with many of these diseases, sometimes

successfully, sometimes not. I'd like to see the discussion include

these perspectives. It is ironic that in a discussion group on

Chinese medicine, in such crucial issues, Chinese medicine is rarely

invoked.

 

 

On Apr 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Mark Milotay wrote:

 

>

>

> I am curious about the homeopathic vaccines. How are we able to tell

> if they are effective, without exposing the individual to the disease

> and seeing if they get it? Can you do titre tests to see if the

> antibodies are present, or is there another way?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mark

>

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <

> > wrote:

> >

> >

> > Interesting to this discussion, the topic explored on the TV show

> Law &

> > Order last night, was vaccination of children. In the show, one

> mom refused

> > to vaccinate her child, who caught measles and passed it on to

> another

> > child, who died. The parents of the child who died sued the other

> mom - the

> > question on the show was whether the mom who did not vaccinate her

> child was

> > legally responsible for the death of the child who died, for

> refusing to

> > participate in " protecting the public " by having her child

> vaccinated.

> >

> > It may very well be that, in addition to considering the health

> benefits of

> > avoiding vaccines for our families, we may also be seeing these

> kinds of

> > lawsuits pop up around this issue. Do homeopathic vaccines offer

> the same

> > protection to the public that medical vaccines claim to offer?

> >

> > Andrea Beth

> >

> > Traditional Oriental Medicine

> > Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> > 635 S. 10th St.

> > Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> > (928) 274-1373

> >

> > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

> >

> > alon marcus <alonmarcus

> > Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and

> our world

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:07 AM

> >

> > Yehuda

> > " Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while

> waiting

> > till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

> >

> > This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some

> evidence

> > (5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still

> leaves

> > 90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

> > general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

> > wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear

> of

> > it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

> > My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

> > She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

> > healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

> > every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

> > which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

> > probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

> > would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

> > absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually

> make a

> > difference, no. We do not know about many.

> >

> >

> >

> > 400 29th St. Suite 419

> > Oakland Ca 94609

> >

> >

> >

> > alonmarcus

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Alon the grandmother was I BET only vaccinated with the earlier number 2-6 and

not the 62.......they are advocating today, as the number of pathogens and

injections has risen so has disease, you MUST be aware of the research of the

Haywood study that showed only VACCINATED individuals developed auto

antibodies.....you know the aut antibodies found in auto immune disease......the

nonvaccinated populations did not.

 

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

alonmarcus

Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:07:14 -0700

Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda

" Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

 

This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

(5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

difference, no. We do not know about many.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

According to Dr Mercola there are only three autistic Amish children and all

three of them were vaccinated due to various reasons like adoption etc. None of

the other Amish children are vaccinated. Certainly food for thought. Check Dr

Tenpenney' s work.also--- On Wed, 4/29/09, Patricia Jordan

<coastalcatclinic wrote:

 

Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

RE: Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

" traditional chinese med " <Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 12:24 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alon the grandmother was I BET only vaccinated with the earlier number 2-6 and

not the 62.......they are advocating today, as the number of pathogens and

injections has risen so has disease, you MUST be aware of the research of the

Haywood study that showed only VACCINATED individuals developed auto

antibodies.. ...you know the aut antibodies found in auto immune disease.....

..the nonvaccinated populations did not.

 

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:07:14 -0700

Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

 

Yehuda

" Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

 

This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

(5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

difference, no. We do not know about many.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well put, Z'ev.  Liberty without responsibility fosters chaos, and as important

as it is for one to have the freedom to make infomed choices, a maturity must

accompany that opportunity so as to not became a public danger or menace.  I

think of the decision of states to limit the freedom to drive a car to those

over 16, (at least in California), and to require those who are handicapped or

who  are potentially unable to drive safely such as the infirm or seniors, to be

required to prove that they are safe drivers, fall in the same catagory. By the

same token, if a parent does show due diligence in raising their child after

choosing not to vaccinate, and then their child, having been exposed to a

pathogen such as measles, causes others to get sick and even die, I would not

consider the parents negligent.   We find similar cases in the gemara (bava

Kama), where a parallel  question raised.

 

respectfully,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, <zrosenbe wrote:

 

 

<zrosenbe

Re: Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 9:09 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have been following this issue carefully over the last several days

on this list, and have refrained from my own comments because of the

extreme complexity and emotional issues associated with vaccination.

 

There are a number of factors that make it difficult to be conclusive.

 

1) Medicine in developed countries is as much a business as a public

service. While vaccines can save lives from epidemics, there is also

a profit motive and vested interests in the pharmaceutical industry at

work. Therefore, more vaccines, more profits. As in many other

services provided in developed countries, such as media, banking,

insurance and food chains, profit may outweigh overall benefits over

time, and lead to monopolization of resources involving government

regulations.

 

2) Therefore, the most developed countries, such as the USA, have a

wider variety of vaccinations required than any other, even for such

conditions as chicken pox. In my opinion, it is this over-vaccination

that is most dangerous.

 

3) We do not know the long-term effects of such multiple vaccines on

children in terms of the immune system and overall health. Like many

other biomedical interventions, we may learn in the long run that

vaccinations may be dangerous when administered as combination

vaccines, in intensive schedules.

 

4) What society would even allow intensive studies of homeopathic

vaccines? There are too many vested interests already opposing

homeopathy. What impartial studies could be implemented?

 

5) It is a major responsibility not to vaccinate, and I only feel

that people who are willing to take full responsibility for their own

and their children's health through education and lifestyle should

consider it. There is also a major breadth of scope between choosing

to do all vaccinations and choosing those that appear more essential.

 

6) There is a major conflict between the right of individuals to

choose what to put into their bodies and bloodstreams and society's

institutions forcing this on them. I wonder if we are compromising

our basic freedoms in this regard.

 

7)Vaccinations, interestingly enough, were invented by the Chinese,

not Jenner. However, they were not injected directly into the

bloodstream, but through the nose (powdered) or scratching the skin.

I think this may be a topic we wish to discuss, in other words, new

developments in food-based or inhaled vaccines, that may be less

damaging to the immune system in the long run than direct injection.

 

8) As usual, we have not really invoked discussion on what our own

medical tradition, Chinese medicine, has to say about this issue,

about immunity, about epidemics, about source texts. The Chinese

struggled for centuries with many of these diseases, sometimes

successfully, sometimes not. I'd like to see the discussion include

these perspectives. It is ironic that in a discussion group on

Chinese medicine, in such crucial issues, Chinese medicine is rarely

invoked.

 

 

On Apr 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Mark Milotay wrote:

 

>

>

> I am curious about the homeopathic vaccines. How are we able to tell

> if they are effective, without exposing the individual to the disease

> and seeing if they get it? Can you do titre tests to see if the

> antibodies are present, or is there another way?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mark

>

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:36 AM, <

> > wrote:

> >

> >

> > Interesting to this discussion, the topic explored on the TV show

> Law &

> > Order last night, was vaccination of children. In the show, one

> mom refused

> > to vaccinate her child, who caught measles and passed it on to

> another

> > child, who died. The parents of the child who died sued the other

> mom - the

> > question on the show was whether the mom who did not vaccinate her

> child was

> > legally responsible for the death of the child who died, for

> refusing to

> > participate in " protecting the public " by having her child

> vaccinated.

> >

> > It may very well be that, in addition to considering the health

> benefits of

> > avoiding vaccines for our families, we may also be seeing these

> kinds of

> > lawsuits pop up around this issue. Do homeopathic vaccines offer

> the same

> > protection to the public that medical vaccines claim to offer?

> >

> > Andrea Beth

> >

> > Traditional Oriental Medicine

> > Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> > 635 S. 10th St.

> > Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> > (928) 274-1373

> >

> > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net> wrote:

> >

> > alon marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net>

> > Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and

> our world

> >

> > Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:07 AM

> >

> > Yehuda

> > " Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while

> waiting

> > till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

> >

> > This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some

> evidence

> > (5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still

> leaves

> > 90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

> > general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

> > wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear

> of

> > it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

> > My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

> > She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

> > healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

> > every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

> > which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

> > probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

> > would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

> > absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually

> make a

> > difference, no. We do not know about many.

> >

> >

> >

> > 400 29th St. Suite 419

> > Oakland Ca 94609

> >

> >

> > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

> > alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Z'ev,

 

On your point about homeopathic research,

doesn't European countries have that info?

MDs in Germany for instance, are much more educated about homeopathy and

herbal therapies

and many of them utilize both.

Homeopathy is said to be practiced by more people on the planet than any

other single form of medicine.

(India, Europe...)

Can we find studies from Europe on that point?

 

Please talk about how the Chinese were doing vaccination-type therapy.

That is very interesting.

I've heard that they were using a form of bovine medicine way before the

small pox vaccine was created...

 

K

 

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Rissa Guest <rissaguest wrote:

 

>

>

>

> According to Dr Mercola there are only three autistic Amish children and

> all three of them were vaccinated due to various reasons like adoption etc.

> None of the other Amish children are vaccinated. Certainly food for thought.

> Check Dr Tenpenney' s work.also--- On Wed, 4/29/09, Patricia Jordan <

> coastalcatclinic <coastalcatclinic%40hotmail.com>> wrote:

>

> Patricia Jordan

<coastalcatclinic<coastalcatclinic%40hotmail.com>

> >

> RE: Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our

> world

> " traditional chinese med " <

>

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> >

> Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 12:24 PM

>

>

> Alon the grandmother was I BET only vaccinated with the earlier number 2-6

> and not the 62.......they are advocating today, as the number of pathogens

> and injections has risen so has disease, you MUST be aware of the research

> of the Haywood study that showed only VACCINATED individuals developed auto

> antibodies.. ...you know the aut antibodies found in auto immune

> disease..... .the nonvaccinated populations did not.

>

> Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

>

>

> alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

> Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:07:14 -0700

> Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

>

> Yehuda

> " Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

> till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

>

> This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

> (5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

> 90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

> general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

> wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

> it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

> My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

> She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

> healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

> every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

> which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

> probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

> would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

> absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

> difference, no. We do not know about many.

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

> www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

> alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

>

>

[Guest guest]

titers, what exactly do you think they are telling you? we know that vaccination

does not equal immunization and that to be vaccinated does not mean you are

immune any more..........than having a titer means you will not get the disease.

this is the very paradox at the foundation of this fanatasy that vaccinations

will help the society as a whole. Only 20-50% (and that is such a wide range

would you linke to specualte whay that was the numbers/) even are responsive to

vaccines by making antibody. Antibody and the levels does not equal

immunity.Despite the fact that it is antibodiy levels that are used to say a

vaccine worked.......... " took " whatever, they do not even allow that to

represent that a vaccine is still " taking " or " effective " . Challenge tests are

the only way to se whatcha got, and despite all the insurance you THINK you

have having given everyone the jab, you have no idea, immunity is a factor of

too much genetic differences within the population to say vaccines equal herd

immunity, herd mentality perhaps mut not hear immunity, that fanatasy simply

does not exist.takes nothing into account of the stress level, the nuritional

level, the emotional level the parasite budren and the level of disease now

caried on now, frequently vaccine genetic mutated genomes.so quick when

vaccinated animals and people come down with the very thing they are

" vaccinated' against, doctors seem incredulous to " how this happened " , and just

wait, the latency period post vaccine administration is the very place mutations

rise from.Whoever started that fallicy that vaccination meant ANY level of

security against disease????????????

 

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

mark

Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:44:25 -0700

Re: Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am curious about the homeopathic vaccines. How are we able to tell

if they are effective, without exposing the individual to the disease

and seeing if they get it? Can you do titre tests to see if the

antibodies are present, or is there another way?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:36 AM, < wrote:

>

>

> Interesting to this discussion, the topic explored on the TV show Law &

> Order last night, was vaccination of children. In the show, one mom refused

> to vaccinate her child, who caught measles and passed it on to another

> child, who died. The parents of the child who died sued the other mom - the

> question on the show was whether the mom who did not vaccinate her child was

> legally responsible for the death of the child who died, for refusing to

> participate in " protecting the public " by having her child vaccinated.

>

> It may very well be that, in addition to considering the health benefits of

> avoiding vaccines for our families, we may also be seeing these kinds of

> lawsuits pop up around this issue. Do homeopathic vaccines offer the same

> protection to the public that medical vaccines claim to offer?

>

> Andrea Beth

>

> Traditional Oriental Medicine

> Happy Hours in the CALM Center

> 635 S. 10th St.

> Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> --- On Wed, 4/29/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

>

> alon marcus <alonmarcus

> Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

> Chinese Medicine

> Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:07 AM

>

> Yehuda

> " Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

> till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

>

> This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

> (5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

> 90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

> general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

> wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

> it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

> My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

> She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

> healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

> every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

> which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

> probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

> would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

> absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

> difference, no. We do not know about many.

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

>

> alonmarcus

>

>

[Guest guest]

If law and order presented that rubish, i would love to be working for the

defense and supplying the research, not vaccinating.......how did that have

ANYTHING to do with the other childs immune response to a pahtogen, perhaps the

vaccinated individuals shed the very pathogen and that is the reason, the

trouble with the infected childs innate immune system may very well have been do

to the compormise they receive being maultiply vaccinated which not only sets

them up with immunosupression but also causes their Vit c to drop out, this is

such an incredible mess, nothing about the knowledge we now have from scientific

advancements are being considered here.

 

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

 

Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:36:34 -0700

Re: Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting to this discussion, the topic explored on the TV show Law & Order

last night, was vaccination of children. In the show, one mom refused to

vaccinate her child, who caught measles and passed it on to another child, who

died. The parents of the child who died sued the other mom - the question on

the show was whether the mom who did not vaccinate her child was legally

responsible for the death of the child who died, for refusing to participate in

" protecting the public " by having her child vaccinated.

 

It may very well be that, in addition to considering the health benefits of

avoiding vaccines for our families, we may also be seeing these kinds of

lawsuits pop up around this issue. Do homeopathic vaccines offer the same

protection to the public that medical vaccines claim to offer?

 

Andrea Beth

 

Traditional Oriental Medicine

Happy Hours in the CALM Center

635 S. 10th St.

Cottonwood, AZ 86326

(928) 274-1373

 

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

 

alon marcus <alonmarcus

Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 8:07 AM

 

Yehuda

" Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while waiting

till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

 

This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some evidence

(5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still leaves

90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear of

it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually make a

difference, no. We do not know about many.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

[Guest guest]

From my understanding and studies, vaccinations were used in the Song dynasty,

but quickly discontinued due to the perceived harm rather than benefit.

 

From a CM perspective, one can say that the vaccine is seen by the body as a

pathogen and that invokes the Divergent meridians to take the pathogen and

translocate it to the interior. In order to do this, ie make the pathogen

latent, the body expends its resources, yuan qi/yin-jing which is dense and

heavy and can keep the pathogen dormant (which it does in the

joints/bones/marrow). The problem in babies and young children is that yuan

qi/jing shouldn't be disturbed at these stages in one's life. Moreover, in

today's world babies are being born to mothers much later in their lives, with

birthing practices that are problematic in many regards to the health of the

child/fetus such as overuse of drugs/pitocin/cutting of cord too soon, the high

incidence of birthing trauma like use of forceps/vacuum, and many others, which

causes a deficiency in the Kidneys (yin and yang jing alike) and the overall

lack of capability to maintain dormancy. When overwhelmed with vaccinations,

these mechanisms become compromised leaving a baby vulnerable. With so many

resources being allocated to deal with vaccines, what is left to handle the

vicissitudes of daily living and the onslaught of what we are all exposed to

these days, let alone an immune-compromised fetus.... Immunity can become

significantly more compromised. If the baby is already compromised from the

factors mentioned above, the vaccines themselves can stimulate adverse

reactions.

 

Ross

 

 

Chinese Medicine ,

<zrosenbe wrote:

>

 

 

 

>

> 7)Vaccinations, interestingly enough, were invented by the Chinese,

> not Jenner. However, they were not injected directly into the

> bloodstream, but through the nose (powdered) or scratching the skin.

> I think this may be a topic we wish to discuss, in other words, new

> developments in food-based or inhaled vaccines, that may be less

> damaging to the immune system in the long run than direct injection.

>

> 8) As usual, we have not really invoked discussion on what our own

> medical tradition, Chinese medicine, has to say about this issue,

> about immunity, about epidemics, about source texts. The Chinese

> struggled for centuries with many of these diseases, sometimes

> successfully, sometimes not. I'd like to see the discussion include

> these perspectives. It is ironic that in a discussion group on

> Chinese medicine, in such crucial issues, Chinese medicine is rarely

> invoked.

>

>

> On Apr 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Mark Milotay wrote:

--

_/I\_

Ross Rosen, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM)

Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine

166 Mountain Ave.

Westfield, NJ 07090

(908) 654-4333

http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com

http://rossrosen.blogspot.com

Ross Rosen's Interview on Blog Talk Tadio

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Larry-Elliott/2008/10/02/Founder-of-Center-for-Acup\

uncture-Addresses-Root-Causes-of-Health-Issues-

Ross Rosen's Lecture Jan. 12 2009 on Chinese medicine and his upcoming book

debunking many western medical myths on health

http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com/forms/Ross_Lecture_011209.mp3

http://chinesepulsediagnosis.blogspot.com/

 

This email contains confidential information intended for the person(s) to whom

it is addressed. If you should receive this in error please contact us

immediately by return mail, or at the above phone number. Unauthorized use of

this information may be in violation of criminal statutes or HIPAA regulations.

Under no circumstances shall this material be retained, transmitted, or copied

by anyone other than the addressee(s).>

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ross, well thought out and well said, profound, really.

 

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, rossrosen <rossrosen wrote:

 

rossrosen <rossrosen

Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and our world

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 9:39 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From my understanding and studies, vaccinations were used in the Song

dynasty, but quickly discontinued due to the perceived harm rather than benefit.

 

 

 

From a CM perspective, one can say that the vaccine is seen by the body as a

pathogen and that invokes the Divergent meridians to take the pathogen and

translocate it to the interior. In order to do this, ie make the pathogen

latent, the body expends its resources, yuan qi/yin-jing which is dense and

heavy and can keep the pathogen dormant (which it does in the joints/bones/

marrow). The problem in babies and young children is that yuan qi/jing

shouldn't be disturbed at these stages in one's life. Moreover, in today's

world babies are being born to mothers much later in their lives, with birthing

practices that are problematic in many regards to the health of the child/fetus

such as overuse of drugs/pitocin/ cutting of cord too soon, the high incidence

of birthing trauma like use of forceps/vacuum, and many others, which causes a

deficiency in the Kidneys (yin and yang jing alike) and the overall lack of

capability to maintain dormancy. When

overwhelmed with vaccinations, these mechanisms become compromised leaving a

baby vulnerable. With so many resources being allocated to deal with vaccines,

what is left to handle the vicissitudes of daily living and the onslaught of

what we are all exposed to these days, let alone an immune-compromised fetus....

Immunity can become significantly more compromised. If the baby is already

compromised from the factors mentioned above, the vaccines themselves can

stimulate adverse reactions.

 

 

 

Ross

 

 

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ,

<zrosenbe@.. .> wrote:

 

>

 

 

 

>

 

> 7)Vaccinations, interestingly enough, were invented by the Chinese,

 

> not Jenner. However, they were not injected directly into the

 

> bloodstream, but through the nose (powdered) or scratching the skin.

 

> I think this may be a topic we wish to discuss, in other words, new

 

> developments in food-based or inhaled vaccines, that may be less

 

> damaging to the immune system in the long run than direct injection.

 

>

 

> 8) As usual, we have not really invoked discussion on what our own

 

> medical tradition, Chinese medicine, has to say about this issue,

 

> about immunity, about epidemics, about source texts. The Chinese

 

> struggled for centuries with many of these diseases, sometimes

 

> successfully, sometimes not. I'd like to see the discussion include

 

> these perspectives. It is ironic that in a discussion group on

 

> Chinese medicine, in such crucial issues, Chinese medicine is rarely

 

> invoked.

 

>

 

>

 

> On Apr 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Mark Milotay wrote:

 

--

 

_/I\_

 

Ross Rosen, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM)

 

Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine

 

166 Mountain Ave.

 

Westfield, NJ 07090

 

(908) 654-4333

 

http://www.acupunct ureandherbalmedi cine.com

 

http://rossrosen. blogspot. com

 

Ross Rosen's Interview on Blog Talk Tadio http://www.blogtalk radio.com/

Larry-Elliott/ 2008/10/02/ Founder-of- Center-for- Acupuncture- Addresses-

Root-Causes- of-Health- Issues-

 

Ross Rosen's Lecture Jan. 12 2009 on Chinese medicine and his upcoming book

debunking many western medical myths on health

 

http://www.acupunct ureandherbalmedi cine.com/ forms/Ross_ Lecture_011209. mp3

 

http://chinesepulse diagnosis. blogspot. com/

 

 

 

This email contains confidential information intended for the person(s) to whom

it is addressed. If you should receive this in error please contact us

immediately by return mail, or at the above phone number. Unauthorized use of

this information may be in violation of criminal statutes or HIPAA regulations.

Under no circumstances shall this material be retained, transmitted, or copied

by anyone other than the addressee(s) .>

 

> >

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

One other thing I would just add is that as practitioners of CM, we understand

that cause and effect is not linear. A+B does not equal C. In other words

there must be a confluence of many signs before a symptom results. The

'scientific' method and research is flawed and should not be the final arbiter

of this issue. CM is round and factors the totality of our patients (to the

best of our abilities) in assessing the root issues and distinguishing them from

the branches. When we are looking at something like vaccinations, we must look

at the patient's constitution, etc. and all the other factors that make up this

unique individual. Sometimes we must find and recognize the straw that broke

the camel's back. In the case of vaccines, I would argue that it's less a straw

and more like a ton of bricks. It's a major taxation that more and more

babies/children cannot handle.

 

Ross

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " rossrosen " <rossrosen

wrote:

>

> From my understanding and studies, vaccinations were used in the Song dynasty,

but quickly discontinued due to the perceived harm rather than benefit.

>

> From a CM perspective, one can say that the vaccine is seen by the body as a

pathogen and that invokes the Divergent meridians to take the pathogen and

translocate it to the interior. In order to do this, ie make the pathogen

latent, the body expends its resources, yuan qi/yin-jing which is dense and

heavy and can keep the pathogen dormant (which it does in the

joints/bones/marrow). The problem in babies and young children is that yuan

qi/jing shouldn't be disturbed at these stages in one's life. Moreover, in

today's world babies are being born to mothers much later in their lives, with

birthing practices that are problematic in many regards to the health of the

child/fetus such as overuse of drugs/pitocin/cutting of cord too soon, the high

incidence of birthing trauma like use of forceps/vacuum, and many others, which

causes a deficiency in the Kidneys (yin and yang jing alike) and the overall

lack of capability to maintain dormancy. When overwhelmed with vaccinations,

these mechanisms become compromised leaving a baby vulnerable. With so many

resources being allocated to deal with vaccines, what is left to handle the

vicissitudes of daily living and the onslaught of what we are all exposed to

these days, let alone an immune-compromised fetus.... Immunity can become

significantly more compromised. If the baby is already compromised from the

factors mentioned above, the vaccines themselves can stimulate adverse

reactions.

>

> Ross

>

>

> Chinese Medicine ,

<zrosenbe@> wrote:

> >

>

>

>

> >

> > 7)Vaccinations, interestingly enough, were invented by the Chinese,

> > not Jenner. However, they were not injected directly into the

> > bloodstream, but through the nose (powdered) or scratching the skin.

> > I think this may be a topic we wish to discuss, in other words, new

> > developments in food-based or inhaled vaccines, that may be less

> > damaging to the immune system in the long run than direct injection.

> >

> > 8) As usual, we have not really invoked discussion on what our own

> > medical tradition, Chinese medicine, has to say about this issue,

> > about immunity, about epidemics, about source texts. The Chinese

> > struggled for centuries with many of these diseases, sometimes

> > successfully, sometimes not. I'd like to see the discussion include

> > these perspectives. It is ironic that in a discussion group on

> > Chinese medicine, in such crucial issues, Chinese medicine is rarely

> > invoked.

> >

> >

> > On Apr 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Mark Milotay wrote:

> --

> _/I\_

> Ross Rosen, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM)

> Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine

> 166 Mountain Ave.

> Westfield, NJ 07090

> (908) 654-4333

> http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com

> http://rossrosen.blogspot.com

> Ross Rosen's Interview on Blog Talk Tadio

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Larry-Elliott/2008/10/02/Founder-of-Center-for-Acup\

uncture-Addresses-Root-Causes-of-Health-Issues-

> Ross Rosen's Lecture Jan. 12 2009 on Chinese medicine and his upcoming book

debunking many western medical myths on health

> http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com/forms/Ross_Lecture_011209.mp3

> http://chinesepulsediagnosis.blogspot.com/

>

> This email contains confidential information intended for the person(s) to

whom it is addressed. If you should receive this in error please contact us

immediately by return mail, or at the above phone number. Unauthorized use of

this information may be in violation of criminal statutes or HIPAA regulations.

Under no circumstances shall this material be retained, transmitted, or copied

by anyone other than the addressee(s).>

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

Spot on, Ross.

 

 

On May 1, 2009, at 4:03 AM, rossrosen wrote:

 

> One other thing I would just add is that as practitioners of CM, we

> understand that cause and effect is not linear. A+B does not equal

> C. In other words there must be a confluence of many signs before a

> symptom results. The 'scientific' method and research is flawed and

> should not be the final arbiter of this issue. CM is round and

> factors the totality of our patients (to the best of our abilities)

> in assessing the root issues and distinguishing them from the

> branches. When we are looking at something like vaccinations, we

> must look at the patient's constitution, etc. and all the other

> factors that make up this unique individual. Sometimes we must find

> and recognize the straw that broke the camel's back. In the case of

> vaccines, I would argue that it's less a straw and more like a ton

> of bricks. It's a major taxation that more and more babies/children

> cannot handle.

>

> Ross

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

John,

Check out Volume VI:6 of " Science and Civilization in China " by

Joseph Needham, edited by Nathan Sivin. 1/4 of the book is a section

on immunology, focusing on vaccination.

 

 

On Apr 29, 2009, at 11:59 AM, wrote:

 

>

>

> Z'ev,

>

> On your point about homeopathic research,

> doesn't European countries have that info?

> MDs in Germany for instance, are much more educated about homeopathy

> and

> herbal therapies

> and many of them utilize both.

> Homeopathy is said to be practiced by more people on the planet than

> any

> other single form of medicine.

> (India, Europe...)

> Can we find studies from Europe on that point?

>

> Please talk about how the Chinese were doing vaccination-type therapy.

> That is very interesting.

> I've heard that they were using a form of bovine medicine way before

> the

> small pox vaccine was created...

>

> K

>

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Rissa Guest <rissaguest

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> > According to Dr Mercola there are only three autistic Amish

> children and

> > all three of them were vaccinated due to various reasons like

> adoption etc.

> > None of the other Amish children are vaccinated. Certainly food

> for thought.

> > Check Dr Tenpenney' s work.also--- On Wed, 4/29/09, Patricia

> Jordan <

> > coastalcatclinic <coastalcatclinic%40hotmail.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > Patricia Jordan

> <coastalcatclinic<coastalcatclinic%40hotmail.com>

> > >

> > RE: Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves

> and our

> > world

> > " traditional chinese med " <

> >

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> @<Chinese Traditional Medicine%40>

> > >

> > Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 12:24 PM

> >

> >

> > Alon the grandmother was I BET only vaccinated with the earlier

> number 2-6

> > and not the 62.......they are advocating today, as the number of

> pathogens

> > and injections has risen so has disease, you MUST be aware of the

> research

> > of the Haywood study that showed only VACCINATED individuals

> developed auto

> > antibodies.. ...you know the aut antibodies found in auto immune

> > disease..... .the nonvaccinated populations did not.

> >

> > Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

> >

> >

> > alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

> > Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:07:14 -0700

> > Re: balancing exterior and interior,ourselves and

> our world

> >

> > Yehuda

> > " Why do physicians insist on vaccinating small children while

> waiting

> > till their own children are older, say 5 years old? "

> >

> > This statement cannot be supported in US. While you have some

> evidence

> > (5-10%) of this in Switzerland not true in US. Also, this still

> leaves

> > 90-95%, even in switzerland which has much more liberal ideas in

> > general, that do vaccinate their own kids. Hardly a conspiracy. I

> > wanted to wait with my kids but my wife a physician would not hear

> of

> > it. All of the our physician friends kids are vaccinated.

> > My grandmother an OBGYN delivered babies until she was 82 years old.

> > She died peacfuly in her 90s. She did not live what you would cold a

> > healthy life, as far as diet. She did get vaccinated and followed

> > every medical advise of the time, which we would now think much of

> > which to be bad. Does that mean anything? I do not know and only

> > probably shows that these questions are much more complex that we

> > would like to believe. Does it make sense to use " common " sense,

> > absolutely. Does it mean that most common sense ideas actually

> make a

> > difference, no. We do not know about many.

> >

> >

> >

> > 400 29th St. Suite 419

> > Oakland Ca 94609

> >

> >

> > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

> > alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

> >

> >