Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology patients

April 24, 2009

Hi Yehuda and all,

I have two children whom i did not get vaccinated either.

My first decision was based on the recommendations of my first daughter's

neonatologist at the Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital NICU, after she suffered a

stroke at the time of her birth. He was the first one to tell us that the

incidence of severe side-effects (autism, infarction through disturbance of the

clotting mechanisms, brain damage undifferentiated) from vaccines -particularly

Pertusis- is much greater in individuals that have suffered neurological damage

( in the order of 20 to 100x more frequent, depending on the vaccine).

Now when your newborn baby has lost 2/3 of her left brain, it is pretty

easy risk assessment that leads to the decision not vaccinate... any more

neurological damage would have been devastating.

After that i researched the issue more, and found lots of concurring data

(it's been 8 yrs now so i unfortunately can't remember exactly where... though

some i think was from the AMA.) I read some of the books you cited; they contain

good ideas but i would definitely need to play devil's advocate and say some of

his reasoning can be argued ... but i like you cringe at the idea of foreign

proteins injected into perfect newborns... unless there is good medical reason.

Pasteur's idea about the terrain is i think well in line with the Chinese

Medical Classics and their depiction of the intricate relationships betwen

people and environment that lead to the manifestation of disease. To this (which

requires a strong Wei Qi and clement conditions that unfortunately do not always

exist) i would also add an evaluation of risk factors: what are the chances of a

newborn contracting a bloodborne/sexually transmitted disease like Hep.B???

Vaccinating in teenage years when the body is stronger and the risk is higher

would seem more appropriate, unless there was a direct rik of contamination in

the infant's environment. Diphteria and polio (though polio is sl. more

prevalent now than it was 10 yrs ago) are rare incidences which are mostly

averted by good sanitation. Measles mostly present a threat for males; vaccines

that protect against benign, normal infantile diseases such as chicken pox are

simply an aberration that only

serves to weaken the collective human immune system.

This being said... there is a time and place for vaccinations i

believe, as we are not all always in perfect alignment between Heaven and Earth

(not to start an philosophical debate!) ... If i were to travel to places where

polio is more prevalent i would vaccinate... I am myself happy to be immune to

Hep.B given the risk factors of the profession... and each year i tremble when

there are 8 cases or so of pertusis in my town. The real issue is that medical

profession suffers from a lack of case by case differential evaluation, and has

fallen prey to massive generalization. There also seems to be a lack of

education in Medical Schools about vaccines. In the case of my older daughter

most pediatricians simply were unaware of the increased risks for neurological

patients and wanted to proceed anyway, while we got a very strong veto against

vaccination from neurologists, hematologist and neonatologist alike.

Well that's my two cents on our journey... sorry so long

Genevieve.

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, < wrote:

<

Influences in our decision not to vaccinate

" TCM " <Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 2:33 PM

Dear colleagues,

I was asked to give references and influences for my decision. Here's my

response:

" Remember, this goes back 25 years, but I'll give you some resources that I have

and can think of:

1. One of my greatest influences has been Dr. Robert Mendelsohn. Bob was a

wonderful, dynamic pediatrician from Chicago who called himself " The medical

heretic " and " The people's doctor, " He wrote extensively in favor of educating

and empowering the public against the smear tactics of the medical hierarchy.

He was a university professor, chairman of the Medical Licensure Committee for

the state of Illinois, and a brilliant, quick- witted scholar, who was

COMPLETELY on the side of the patient. Bob wrote at least 4 books that I know

of:

" Confessions of a Medical Heretic " ,

" MALePRACTICE, How Doctors Manipulate Women, "

" How To Raise a Healthy Child (in Spite of Your Doctor), " and

" But Doctor, About That Shot: The Risks of Immunization and How to Avoid Them. "

Here are some notable quotes of his:

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

2. I have somewhere, a very well written 25 page pamphlet by Robert Moskowitz,

MD entitled:The Case Against Immunizations, which presents in a very scholarly

and yet readable manner the bio-chemistry and physiology of the immune system,

and how vaccinations affect it.

3. A Shot in the Dark, by Harris Coulter and Barbara Fisher. which specifically

addresses the dangers of the pertusses vaccine.

I have other books someone in bookshelves and/or closets, some good, and some of

questionable value, but the internet has really opened things up, and if on is

motivated, there is lots of objective information from which to slowly and

thoughtfully come to a prudent decision.

One last person I want to mention is our son's pediatrician, who was also a

close friend of Dr. Mendelsohn, OBM, and an amazing, totally objective, high

soul, Dr. Paul Fleiss. (Our son used to say, " It rhymes, Dr. Fleiss is nice! " )

Dr. Fleiss gave us lot of time and information, and was never pushy nor

dogmatic. He left the decision totally to us. BTW, as far as I know, he still

is in practice in Los Angeles.

Yehuda L. Frischman,

L.Ac, CST, SER

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, joe crowley <imcrowley > wrote:

joe crowley <imcrowley >

Fw: Re: Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for

diabetics?-r

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 12:34 PM

Hi Yehuda, this was interesting.

Do you have any books that you could point me to about vaccinations?

Is there one that might be considered " the bible " when it comes to vaccinations?

Thanks

Joe

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, > wrote:

>

Re: Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for diabetics?-r

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 3:12 PM

Sorry, my send button decided to send before I was ready: Here is the complete,

edited version!

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, > wrote:

>

Re: Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for diabetics?

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 12:04 PM

Alon,

I think that you are making a gross generalization, as do those who claim that

all autoimmune diseases and diseases of civilization result from or have a

relationship to vaccinations. It is a cost to benefit analysis that each parent

needs to make in determining whether they want to take the risk of exposing

their children to the toxins and potential trauma related to vaccinations. It

is completely innapropriate to expose a small baby whose immune function is just

beginning to develop to the very harsh constituents of vaccines. Once a child

hits 5 years old, and is healthy, then the decision do vaccinate becomes an

easier one. But the witchhunt that Western biomedical physicians, along with

their stooges in government and the school systems have carried on against

parents choosing not to vaccinate is criminal, as far as I am concerned. The

studies showing that vaccines are not related to auto-immune function are flAwed

and no more valid

than saying that a particular herb or acupuncture point works or doesn't work to

treat headaches or gout. For a study to be valid, ALL of the subjects need to

have the same differential diagnosis, similar constitutions and preferably also

be within the same age group. It isn't enough to have the studies just placebo

controlled and double blind.

Personally, neither my baby who is now 25 years old, nor my grandson who will

be 1 next month have been vaccinated. Our choice, again, was based upon a cost

to benefit ratio, and my intuition. Just the thought of injecting putrid

proteins preserved with mercury into the vascular system makes me cringe.

Again, as I have stated on more than one occasion. Pasteur, at the end of his

life acknowledged that Bechamp was right: that it is the terrain and not the

microbe which causes illness.

That's my conclusion. I certainly don't have an agenda but encourage parents to

make decisions in an unbiased and informed way, as much as possible. Most

important: BEWARE OF HYPERBOLE AND SENSATIONALISM. Keep your cool and don't

rush your decison. Rely on intuition and listen to your inner voice of

wisdom.

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, alon marcus <alonmarcus@ wans. net> wrote:

alon marcus <alonmarcus@ wans. net>

Re: sweet potatoes balance glycemic index for diabetics?

Thursday, April 23, 2009, 11:34 AM

why is diabetes and most other disease we see today mentioned in

chinese and other medical system way before vaccinations. Please

vaccinations seem to be blamed way too often with such poor evidence

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

April 24, 2009

Greetings everyone,

This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

something up here with formatting, etc.

In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary Null

to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second Opinion (A

lengthy preview of which can be found here:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm). On

Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject

(http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently made a

documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you

can watch it for free here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129); he sells a book by

the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a republished edition

of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that used to

be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject entirely. On

Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book (which can

be found here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-Opuo_AGpj\

7WHAQ).

In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers again and

again: vaccines are not effective and are really counter-productive, if

anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance of vaccines has turned

basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases children are either

vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are even taken away from

them.

I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

- Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

April 24, 2009

Hi all,

We didn't vaccinate our son either. Randall Neustaedter's Vaccine Guide is

helpful in providing a second opinion.

http://www.cure-guide.com/

We were concerned about the possibility of our son contracting whooping

cough (pertussis) the first 2 years of his life,

as it has been said that it's been making a come-back and that children

develop their lungs in the first 2 years.

We were fortunate in that regard. He has always been very healthy.

When we travel, we will vaccinate for polio and Hep A ...

Tetanus shots seem logical. Opinions?

Any suggestions for vaccinations that seem reasonable after 3 years of life?

K

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Hah <x.kymus.x wrote:

>

> Greetings everyone,

>

> This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

> something up here with formatting, etc.

>

> In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary

> Null to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second Opinion

> (A lengthy preview of which can be found here:

> http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm).

> On Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject (

> http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently

> made a documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (

> http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you can watch it for free here:

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129); he sells a

> book by the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a

> republished edition of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

>

> Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

> Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

> interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that used

> to be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject entirely.

> On Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book

> (which can be found here:

>

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-Opuo_AGpj\

7WHAQ).

>

> In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers

> again and again: vaccines are not effective and are really

> counter-productive, if anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance of

> vaccines has turned basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases

> children are either vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are

> even taken away from them.

>

> I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

>

> - Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

>

--

Turtle Island Integrative Health

TCM Review director

CA State Board Prep Courses

www.tcmreview.com

April 24, 2009

We've been thinking of vaccinating for Tetanus, but I have not been

able the toddler version of the vaccine without it being bundled with

diptheria and polio. Does anyone know if it is possible to get a

toddler load of the vaccine on its own?

Thanks,

Mark

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 7:48 AM, <johnkokko wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> We didn't vaccinate our son either. Randall Neustaedter's Vaccine Guide is

> helpful in providing a second opinion.

> http://www.cure-guide.com/

>

> We were concerned about the possibility of our son contracting whooping

> cough (pertussis) the first 2 years of his life,

> as it has been said that it's been making a come-back and that children

> develop their lungs in the first 2 years.

> We were fortunate in that regard. He has always been very healthy.

>

> When we travel, we will vaccinate for polio and Hep A ...

>

> Tetanus shots seem logical. Opinions?

>

> Any suggestions for vaccinations that seem reasonable after 3 years of life?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Hah <x.kymus.x wrote:

>

>>

>> Greetings everyone,

>>

>> This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

>> something up here with formatting, etc.

>>

>> In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary

>> Null to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second

>> Opinion

>> (A lengthy preview of which can be found here:

>>

>> http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm).

>> On Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject (

>> http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently

>> made a documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (

>> http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you can watch it for free here:

>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129); he sells a

>> book by the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a

>> republished edition of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

>>

>> Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

>> Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

>> interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that

>> used

>> to be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject

>> entirely.

>> On Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book

>> (which can be found here:

>>

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-Opuo_AGpj\

7WHAQ).

>>

>> In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers

>> again and again: vaccines are not effective and are really

>> counter-productive, if anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance

>> of

>> vaccines has turned basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases

>> children are either vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are

>> even taken away from them.

>>

>> I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

>>

>> - Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

>>

>

> --

>

> Turtle Island Integrative Health

>

> TCM Review director

> CA State Board Prep Courses

> www.tcmreview.com

>

April 24, 2009

and i would add to that list EVIDENCE OF HARM by David kelly, whom also as the

reader comes to the same conclusion, finds that the CDC paying 190MILLION

dollars to keep the research evidence of vaccine damage away from not only the

public but the very minions whom innoculate for them.....the truth.That the CDC

is only able to get funding by justifying ints existence for the federal

government in the diseases it must make vaccines for......they also own the

patent on vaccines, the individual states have to take the CDC vaccine

recommendations if they want any federal monies....this needs to STOP, as now

everyone has vaccine usaged based on only one thing MONEY, even the WHO and teir

involvement of vaccine recommendations has been called in for criminal msconduct

by Dr. Marc Girard of france (france is suing Smith kline Beecham for the

dangerous risks of Hep B when the disease does not weigh the risk with

vaccination) and you can read 15 pages of info on the Minireview of adverse

vaccine reacitons where fear of losing the vaccine industry called for the use

of vaccines in teenagers....lets see what can we create a vaccine for them

for>??????al gardasil which will not even work, and then lets trump up some

false info and make hep b a household name......tell that to the bearers of

neurological defects ala Hep B and then what we can use the cover of HOMELAND

SECURITY and make another vaccine for Bird flu, now we are taking a veterinary

problem and making a trully big public health problem and in the meantime

inducing a pandemic which will be one of our own making. EVIDENCE OF HARM,

and the resultant commentary WHAT WILL WE TELL THE WORLD..... " were bad but be

are intelligent and meant well.........

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

Chinese Medicine

x.kymus.x

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:43:54 +0000

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

Greetings everyone,

This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

something up here with formatting, etc.

In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary Null

to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second Opinion (A

lengthy preview of which can be found here:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm). On

Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject

(http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently made a

documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you

can watch it for free here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129); he sells a book by

the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a republished edition

of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that used to

be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject entirely. On

Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book (which can

be found here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-Opuo_AGpj\

7WHAQ).

In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers again and

again: vaccines are not effective and are really counter-productive, if

anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance of vaccines has turned

basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases children are either

vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are even taken away from

them.

I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

- Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

_______________

Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry

http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2\

_042009

April 24, 2009

for tetanus read the book by Chass Higgins about lockjaw, the bloodpoisoning

following vaccination with small pox which is actually cow syphillis.Many people

died of bloodpoisoning following vaccination, i have seen the death records and

i read the book.Read also Chas Higgins book the Horros of vaccination

Illustrated and exposed and then make even one, reason for compulsary

vaccination. Perhaps before you tout the success of the polio vaccine, you

should read some information about the history of polio and the historical

tracings of the polio vaccine, I was vaccinated orally with polio, and along

with it came several other virus contaminates, herpes 1 herpes 2 and

Cytomegalovirus all complementary of the contamination of the unscientific,

dangerous and non evidence based medical practice act of vaccination.

Martin K. Barnes www.maisondemartin.com and Polio vaccine Page, The Polio

vaccine myth, and know a man was just compensated for his contracture of the

polio from changing his daughters diaper where she was shedding the live

whatever in her feces following vaccination.......so i say, don't ASSUME, you

have to be proactive, the medical doctors were all " assimilated " and are kept

from the truth as well,

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

Chinese Medicine

johnkokko

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:48:13 -0700

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

Hi all,

We didn't vaccinate our son either. Randall Neustaedter's Vaccine Guide is

helpful in providing a second opinion.

http://www.cure-guide.com/

We were concerned about the possibility of our son contracting whooping

cough (pertussis) the first 2 years of his life,

as it has been said that it's been making a come-back and that children

develop their lungs in the first 2 years.

We were fortunate in that regard. He has always been very healthy.

When we travel, we will vaccinate for polio and Hep A ...

Tetanus shots seem logical. Opinions?

Any suggestions for vaccinations that seem reasonable after 3 years of life?

K

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Hah <x.kymus.x wrote:

>

> Greetings everyone,

>

> This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

> something up here with formatting, etc.

>

> In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary

> Null to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second Opinion

> (A lengthy preview of which can be found here:

> http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm).

> On Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject (

> http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently

> made a documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (

> http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you can watch it for free here:

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129); he sells a

> book by the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a

> republished edition of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

>

> Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

> Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

> interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that used

> to be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject entirely.

> On Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book

> (which can be found here:

>

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-Opuo_AGpj\

7WHAQ).

>

> In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers

> again and again: vaccines are not effective and are really

> counter-productive, if anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance of

> vaccines has turned basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases

> children are either vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are

> even taken away from them.

>

> I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

>

> - Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

>

--

Turtle Island Integrative Health

TCM Review director

CA State Board Prep Courses

www.tcmreview.com

April 24, 2009

yes, you are correct and it is a terrible truth of why they want you to only

have DtP............investigate that one, I would hate to be termed

" anti-vaccine fanatic " for no reason and I need some company in this lane.

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

Chinese Medicine

mark

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:24:06 -0700

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

We've been thinking of vaccinating for Tetanus, but I have not been

able the toddler version of the vaccine without it being bundled with

diptheria and polio. Does anyone know if it is possible to get a

toddler load of the vaccine on its own?

Thanks,

Mark

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 7:48 AM, <johnkokko wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> We didn't vaccinate our son either. Randall Neustaedter's Vaccine Guide is

> helpful in providing a second opinion.

> http://www.cure-guide.com/

>

> We were concerned about the possibility of our son contracting whooping

> cough (pertussis) the first 2 years of his life,

> as it has been said that it's been making a come-back and that children

> develop their lungs in the first 2 years.

> We were fortunate in that regard. He has always been very healthy.

>

> When we travel, we will vaccinate for polio and Hep A ...

>

> Tetanus shots seem logical. Opinions?

>

> Any suggestions for vaccinations that seem reasonable after 3 years of life?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Hah <x.kymus.x wrote:

>

>>

>> Greetings everyone,

>>

>> This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

>> something up here with formatting, etc.

>>

>> In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary

>> Null to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second

>> Opinion

>> (A lengthy preview of which can be found here:

>>

>> http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm).

>> On Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject (

>> http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently

>> made a documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (

>> http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you can watch it for free here:

>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129); he sells a

>> book by the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a

>> republished edition of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

>>

>> Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

>> Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

>> interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that

>> used

>> to be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject

>> entirely.

>> On Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book

>> (which can be found here:

>>

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-Opuo_AGpj\

7WHAQ).

>>

>> In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers

>> again and again: vaccines are not effective and are really

>> counter-productive, if anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance

>> of

>> vaccines has turned basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases

>> children are either vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are

>> even taken away from them.

>>

>> I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

>>

>> - Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

>>

>

> --

>

> Turtle Island Integrative Health

>

> TCM Review director

> CA State Board Prep Courses

> www.tcmreview.com

>

April 24, 2009

What is the rationale for them being bundled together?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Patricia Jordan

<coastalcatclinic wrote:

>

> yes, you are correct and it is a terrible truth of why they want you to only

> have DtP............investigate that one, I would hate to be termed

> " anti-vaccine fanatic " for no reason and I need some company in this lane.

>

> Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

>

April 24, 2009

Hi. You can buy TT vaccine for farm animals for a couple bucks anywhere. But for

human, it's a whole different market. I am not totally anti vaccine, but using

them like they were mandated harmless diaper wipes is insane, and I suspect a

global financial cash cow.

--- On Fri, 4/24/09, Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic wrote:

Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

RE: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

" traditional chinese med " <Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Friday, April 24, 2009, 1:18 PM

yes, you are correct and it is a terrible truth of why they want you to only

have DtP......... ...investigate that one, I would hate to be termed

" anti-vaccine fanatic " for no reason and I need some company in this lane.

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

mark (AT) mindbodyasone (DOT) com

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:24:06 -0700

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

We've been thinking of vaccinating for Tetanus, but I have not been

able the toddler version of the vaccine without it being bundled with

diptheria and polio. Does anyone know if it is possible to get a

toddler load of the vaccine on its own?

Thanks,

Mark

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 7:48 AM, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> We didn't vaccinate our son either. Randall Neustaedter' s Vaccine Guide is

> helpful in providing a second opinion.

> http://www.cure- guide.com/

>

> We were concerned about the possibility of our son contracting whooping

> cough (pertussis) the first 2 years of his life,

> as it has been said that it's been making a come-back and that children

> develop their lungs in the first 2 years.

> We were fortunate in that regard. He has always been very healthy.

>

> When we travel, we will vaccinate for polio and Hep A ...

>

> Tetanus shots seem logical. Opinions?

>

> Any suggestions for vaccinations that seem reasonable after 3 years of life?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Hah <x.kymus.x (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

>>

>> Greetings everyone,

>>

>> This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

>> something up here with formatting, etc.

>>

>> In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary

>> Null to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second

>> Opinion

>> (A lengthy preview of which can be found here:

>>

>> http://www.vaccinat ionnews.com/ DailyNews/ October2001/ VaxASecondOpinio

n.htm).

>> On Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject (

>> http://www.garynull .com/articles/ index.php# 1-1)and also, Null recently

>> made a documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (

>> http://www.vaccinen ation.net/ , and you can watch it for free here:

>> http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=6531447125 053615129); he sells a

>> book by the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a

>> republished edition of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

>>

>> Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

>> Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

>> interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that

>> used

>> to be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject

>> entirely.

>> On Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book

>> (which can be found here:

>>

>> http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=7018835240 451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-

Opuo_AGpj7WHAQ).

>>

>> In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers

>> again and again: vaccines are not effective and are really

>> counter-productive, if anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance

>> of

>> vaccines has turned basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases

>> children are either vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are

>> even taken away from them.

>>

>> I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

>>

>> - Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

>>

>

> --

>

> Turtle Island Integrative Health

> www.turtleclinic. com

>

> TCM Review director

> CA State Board Prep Courses

> www.tcmreview. com

>

April 24, 2009

Patricia,

I am completely with you on this one. Thanks for all that you shared. For

any interested, there is plenty of information now, with the internet, to

research all of this to your own satisfaction. I think it is well worth the

time and effort.

And I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all who give of

themselves on this list, give of their opinions, their own vested interests,

their emotionally charged points of view,case discussions, heated or

otherwise, even when I disagree, I find it all to be very generous,

thoughtful, and

at times very helpful.

I feel privileged to be part of this community. I appreciate everyone's

input and rather than limit anyone's input, I would like to encourage more of

us to participate.

Warmly,

TruthSayer, L.Ac., LMFT, etc

In a message dated 4/24/09 10:25:57 AM, coastalcatclinic

writes:

> yes, you are correct and it is a terrible truth of why they want you to

> only have DtP......... yes, you are correct and it is a terrible truth of

> why they want you to only have DtP.........<wbr>...investigate that one,

>

> Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

>

TruthSayer, L.Ac., LMFT

Diplomate in Oriental Medicine(NCCAOM)

Transcendental Acupuncture

2275 Market Street #C

San Francisco, CA 94114

415-686-1193

**************

The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy

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r=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & amp;hmpgID=62 & amp;

bcd=AprilAvgfooter424NO62)

April 24, 2009

The rational is that the pertussis is composed with a fertilty effector.Whose

rationale that is you would have to understand the goal for the WHO and their

vccine " mandates " .

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

Chinese Medicine

mark

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:29:00 -0700

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

What is the rationale for them being bundled together?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Patricia Jordan

<coastalcatclinic wrote:

>

> yes, you are correct and it is a terrible truth of why they want you to only

> have DtP............investigate that one, I would hate to be termed

> " anti-vaccine fanatic " for no reason and I need some company in this lane.

>

> Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

>

_______________

Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you.

http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage\

2_042009

April 24, 2009

In regards to the mumps cases talked about early in the thread, they were all in

adult males. It has been documented that a)immunity from the vaccine is not

permanent and can ware off & b)childhood dz, when contracted by adults, have far

worse symptoms. If a child were to contract mumps, only 1% would suffer

infertility in one testicle (research by Randall Neudstaedter, one of our very

own--and he cites many sources).

By vaccinating at an early age, we push the dz into adolecence or adulthood when

it is more dangerous, and give up the chance for natural immunity. This is the

same problem with the chicken pox vaccine.

In regards to travel, my neighbors are moving to paraguay where measels and

diptheria abound. diptheria is particularly nasty and I supported their choice

in that vaccine, but their child, after recieving the MMR, contracted a case of

the measels for a week. The dr's office said they'd never seen anything like

that before. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

As a parent it is not an easy decision but when you start researching and

weighing the odds, it comes down to what do you fear worse, the disease or the

documented cases of the vaccine reactions?

and mercury is not the only ingredient that one should fear. but someone already

mentioned some of them (aluminum, formaldahyde, anti-biotics...) I think she

left out the anti-freeze, though... (no I'm not making a joke)

April 25, 2009

Whooping cough, which our un-vaccinated daughter caught, was effectively treated

with herbs. Simple. Just follow the pattern.

Douglas

________________________________

<johnkokko

Chinese Medicine

Friday, April 24, 2009 10:48:13 AM

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

Hi all,

We didn't vaccinate our son either. Randall Neustaedter' s Vaccine Guide is

helpful in providing a second opinion.

http://www.cure-guide.com/

We were concerned about the possibility of our son contracting whooping

cough (pertussis) the first 2 years of his life,

as it has been said that it's been making a come-back and that children

develop their lungs in the first 2 years.

We were fortunate in that regard. He has always been very healthy.

When we travel, we will vaccinate for polio and Hep A ...

Tetanus shots seem logical. Opinions?

Any suggestions for vaccinations that seem reasonable after 3 years of life?

K

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Hah <x.kymus.x (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Greetings everyone,

>

> This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

> something up here with formatting, etc.

>

> In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary

> Null to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second Opinion

> (A lengthy preview of which can be found here:

> http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm).

> On Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject (

> http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently

> made a documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (

> http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you can watch it for free here:

> http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=6531447125 053615129); he sells a

> book by the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a

> republished edition of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

>

> Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

> Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

> interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that used

> to be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject entirely.

> On Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book

> (which can be found here:

> http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=7018835240 451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-

Opuo_AGpj7WHAQ).

>

> In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers

> again and again: vaccines are not effective and are really

> counter-productive, if anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance of

> vaccines has turned basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases

> children are either vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are

> even taken away from them.

>

> I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

>

> - Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

>

--

Turtle Island Integrative Health

www.turtleclinic. com

TCM Review director

CA State Board Prep Courses

www.tcmreview. com

April 25, 2009

BRAVO!

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

Chinese Medicine

knappneedleman

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:11:56 -0700

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

Whooping cough, which our un-vaccinated daughter caught, was effectively treated

with herbs. Simple. Just follow the pattern.

Douglas

________________________________

<johnkokko

Chinese Medicine

Friday, April 24, 2009 10:48:13 AM

Re: Influences in our decision not to vaccinate-neurology

patients

Hi all,

We didn't vaccinate our son either. Randall Neustaedter' s Vaccine Guide is

helpful in providing a second opinion.

http://www.cure-guide.com/

We were concerned about the possibility of our son contracting whooping

cough (pertussis) the first 2 years of his life,

as it has been said that it's been making a come-back and that children

develop their lungs in the first 2 years.

We were fortunate in that regard. He has always been very healthy.

When we travel, we will vaccinate for polio and Hep A ...

Tetanus shots seem logical. Opinions?

Any suggestions for vaccinations that seem reasonable after 3 years of life?

K

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Hah <x.kymus.x (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Greetings everyone,

>

> This is my first response to this group, so my apologies if I am screwing

> something up here with formatting, etc.

>

> In regards to vaccinations, I have found information published by Dr. Gary

> Null to be most informative; especially his book Vaccines: A Second Opinion

> (A lengthy preview of which can be found here:

> http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/October2001/VaxASecondOpinion.htm).

> On Null's site there are some informative articles covering the subject (

> http://www.garynull.com/articles/index.php#1-1)and also, Null recently

> made a documentary film entitled Vaccine Nation (

> http://www.vaccinenation.net/, and you can watch it for free here:

> http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=6531447125 053615129); he sells a

> book by the same name which I believe (though I am not certain) is a

> republished edition of his Vaccines: A Second Opinion.

>

> Another source that I've found to be very informative was Dr. Sherry J.

> Tenpenny's Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices. What I find

> interesting about Tenpenny's position is that she is an Osteopath that used

> to be pro-vaccines and now has changed her opinion on the subject entirely.

> On Google Video there is a copy of the documentary version of her book

> (which can be found here:

> http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=7018835240 451107552 & ei=oCLmSaD-

Opuo_AGpj7WHAQ).

>

> In my own personal research, I am continually finding the same answers

> again and again: vaccines are not effective and are really

> counter-productive, if anything. I find it to be absurd that the issuance of

> vaccines has turned basically into gun-point-medicine where in some cases

> children are either vaccinated against the wishes of their parents, or are

> even taken away from them.

>

> I hope that this information will prove to be insightful

>

> - Josh Barton, C.M.T., H.H.C.

>

--

Turtle Island Integrative Health

www.turtleclinic. com

TCM Review director

CA State Board Prep Courses

www.tcmreview. com

May 1, 2009

Patricia,

I was looking up your suggestion of the book by Chass Higgins. Can you give more

information of the book on lockjaw? I don't get any results from either Amazon

or Google searches.

Respectfully,

D. Knapp

________________________________

Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

traditional chinese med <Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Friday, April 24, 2009 1:13:35 PM