Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 yes, I have treated it repeatedly and always had excellent results. You just move the local channels, usually I do Lu 3, LI 11, Ht 3, etc. No electric. Often clients feel fatigued or have hot flashes then I do a more systemic treatment along with it, St 36, Sp 6, K 3. My clients usually decline the herbs; I think the local cancer center tells them to not take any. The treatment course can be lengthy, I would prepare them for at least 10. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - kurvenal Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:37 PM Lymphedema following breast cancer Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hi Jeri; Don't needle the affected arm. Treat otherwise as normal. Follow pattern. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org ________________________________ kurvenal <kurvenal Chinese Medicine Tuesday, 31 March, 2009 15:37:49 Lymphedema following breast cancer Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hugo, I have, for years, been needling the effected arm with great results. Douglas ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro <subincor Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:52:29 PM Re: Lymphedema following breast cancer Hi Jeri; Don't needle the affected arm. Treat otherwise as normal. Follow pattern. Hugo ____________ _________ _________ __ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org ____________ _________ _________ __ kurvenal <kurvenal (AT) ameritech (DOT) net> Tuesday, 31 March, 2009 15:37:49 Lymphedema following breast cancer Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Chinese Medicine , " kurvenal " <kurvenal wrote: > > Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Hi all accepted medical and allied medical treatment is NOT to needle affected limbs, or potentially affected limbs. It is considered that the protein-rich lymphatic fluid gathering and stagnating is a perfect condition for micro-organisms introduced through a break in skin integrity, to reproduce, and cause a serious, systemic infection. This doesn't mean we shouldn't, but if/when we do, be prepared to account for yourself, and provide the clinical research / evidence to support your interventions. There are to date only 3 papers published in the world about acupuncture and moxa use in lymphoedema management. Be immaculate in your aseptic / sterile technique; avoid strong techniques and electro. One recent paper demonstrated no infection after acupuncture applied to lymphoedematous limbs. The following is a starting point, but always treat for pattern and according to the person before you. Moxa Spleen, Kidney and Triple Heater Back shu points, and Du 4. Moxa Ren 4,6,12 It's no co-incidence that several of these points lie over major gathering points of the lymphatic system. Moxa St 36 Acupuncture the opposite/unaffected arm and shoulder - it promotes mobility and comfort in the affected shoulder and arm; there is now clinical evidence for this [should anyone ask you!] Other things known to help: Moderate exercise - may need supervision Qi gong, Tai Qi, Yoga, particularly for the breathing, as this pumps and moves lymphatic fluids through the whole system. A Spleen-friendly diet, with some high quality essential fatty acids in it eg oily fish, nut and seed oils etc No junk food! Maintaining a healthy body weight Refrain from big meals in the evening - clugs the system at night. Wearing non-restrictive clothing, other than prescribed and correctly fitted compression garments. Superbly scrupulous skin care to the affected limb, fingers and toes. Integration of care, with physiotherapists or occupational therapists who specialise in lymphoedema management. Best wishes Margi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi all and Jeri: I agree with Margi totally. Unless you are very well backed up and are willing to encounter the resistance to needling the affected arm, do otherwise. It is very easy to be blamed for anythign that goes wrong, your responsibility or not. Acupuncture shouldn't cause infection though. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies..org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi Douglas, my point is merely legalistic. This would be a similar issue as needling through the peritoneum to touch the stomach, or into the bladder, needling CV1, or needling deeply into FengChi. All legitimate and very effective, and all carry their risks legally and medically. Well CV 1 wouldn't be a medical risk. Hugo ps - Maybe you'd like to share your protocol since it seems that Jeri may be needling the affected limb. ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 What herbs would you prescribe, Angela. I have a client with this and will try this acupuncture protocol. It is not why she came to me, but would certainly make her more comfortable. Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:33:07 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re:  Lymphedema following breast cancer yes, I have treated it repeatedly and always had excellent results. You just move the local channels, usually I do Lu 3, LI 11, Ht 3, etc. No electric. Often clients feel fatigued or have hot flashes then I do a more systemic treatment along with it, St 36, Sp 6, K 3. My clients usually decline the herbs; I think the local cancer center tells them to not take any. The treatment course can be lengthy, I would prepare them for at least 10. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - kurvenal Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:37 PM Lymphedema following breast cancer Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I match the herbs to the tcm diagnosis. If the client is undergoing chemo they will present very different from a client who has no additional treatments. If they do chemo, I have had good results with: astragalus salvia millettia in equal dosages. I don't know where this formula is from. if they are yin deficient with hot flashes I might use: Er Xian tang. But some client have also pronounced liv qi patterns. In short, I would not gear the herbs to the lymphedema but to the bigger picture. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - Anne Crowley Traditional Wednesday, April 08, 2009 7:31 PM Re: Lymphedema following breast cancer What herbs would you prescribe, Angela. I have a client with this and will try this acupuncture protocol. It is not why she came to me, but would certainly make her more comfortable. Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:33:07 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Lymphedema following breast cancer yes, I have treated it repeatedly and always had excellent results. You just move the local channels, usually I do Lu 3, LI 11, Ht 3, etc. No electric. Often clients feel fatigued or have hot flashes then I do a more systemic treatment along with it, St 36, Sp 6, K 3. My clients usually decline the herbs; I think the local cancer center tells them to not take any. The treatment course can be lengthy, I would prepare them for at least 10. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - kurvenal Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:37 PM Lymphedema following breast cancer Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 One thing I believe would help, help tremendously is to apply cold green cabbage leaves to the affected area. I know this is not really TCM but the technique is very very effective for engorgement of the breasts or lymph congestion. There will be nothing to do in the way of damage, I would use cold refrigerated organic green cabbage leaves (not the purple) and lie them on the breast as a compress for 24 hours, changing the leaves about 3 times. Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Thu, 9 Apr 2009 02:31:08 +0000 Re: Lymphedema following breast cancer What herbs would you prescribe, Angela. I have a client with this and will try this acupuncture protocol. It is not why she came to me, but would certainly make her more comfortable. Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:33:07 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Lymphedema following breast cancer yes, I have treated it repeatedly and always had excellent results. You just move the local channels, usually I do Lu 3, LI 11, Ht 3, etc. No electric. Often clients feel fatigued or have hot flashes then I do a more systemic treatment along with it, St 36, Sp 6, K 3. My clients usually decline the herbs; I think the local cancer center tells them to not take any. The treatment course can be lengthy, I would prepare them for at least 10. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - kurvenal Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:37 PM Lymphedema following breast cancer Any suggestions for treating lymphedema following treatment for breast cancer? I haven't met the individual yet, so don't know any specifics of her case. Do people generally avoid needling in the affected arm? Jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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